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  1. #41  
    My first point about if MSFT banned Flash was a bit facetious. But using Apple's thinking, MSFT should also think for us and dictate the "user experience". I'd like to see how that'd go over when people couldn't view their favorite sites. Apple always gets a free pass for exclusion.

    Many websites still haven't switched yet, it's too soon to discard Flash entirely, is also what I'm trying to say. Don't just outright stop people from viewing those sites if it's their choice. I applaud the ones who attempt to work with Flash, for the time being anyway.

    Speaking of killing battery life and crashing, games with all those ads running in the top bar kill my battery life and sometimes crash(just close suddenly) on my iPhone. So I guess we need to ban those too, yet I read even more ads may be coming with iPhone 4.0. Yeah thanks for the double standard, Apple. You allow buggy ads that rotate and flash, but no Flash itself.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    My first point about if MSFT banned Flash was a bit facetious. But using Apple's thinking, MSFT should also think for us and dictate the "user experience". I'd like to see how that'd go over when people couldn't view their favorite sites. Apple always gets a free pass for exclusion.

    Many websites still haven't switched yet, it's too soon to discard Flash entirely, is also what I'm trying to say. Don't just outright stop people from viewing those sites if it's their choice. I applaud the ones who attempt to work with Flash, for the time being anyway.

    Speaking of killing battery life and crashing, games with all those ads running in the top bar kill my battery life and sometimes crash(just close suddenly) on my iPhone. So I guess we need to ban those too, yet I read even more ads may be coming with iPhone 4.0. Yeah thanks for the double standard, Apple. You allow buggy ads that rotate and flash, but no Flash itself.
    Is your jailbroken iPhone running flash by any chance..... the ad supported games coming from the App store DON'T cause battery life issues or crashes....is it possible that you have some errr....non-standard ware installed?? (not a criticism, just a question)
  3. urkel's Avatar
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    #43  
    just curious, but does any phone offer a good flash experience? It feels like all this championing for flash is a direct result of apple being against it.

    Maybe I'm just out of touch because I gave up on flash years ago so I'm not as "hurt" as some here are. But it's not like this is a standard feature across all phones like text or voicemail. It's a web plugin that has yet to prove itself on ANY mobile OS. So wheres the entitlement coming from?
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    just curious, but does any phone offer a good flash experience? It feels like all this championing for flash is a direct result of apple being against it.

    Maybe I'm just out of touch because I gave up on flash years ago so I'm not as "hurt" as some here are. But it's not like this is a standard feature across all phones like text or voicemail. It's a web plugin that has yet to prove itself on ANY mobile OS. So wheres the entitlement coming from?
    The closest thing to a mobile version of Flash is a beta for Android. And, from this report, it doesn't even sound like it counts:

    JeffCroft.com: On the Android Flash demo at FlashCamp Seattle
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    just curious, but does any phone offer a good flash experience?
    As I've previously mentioned, a Nokia 900 (I think...it's brand new) does not play happy with flash sites....it'll run them, but CPU use is real high, and the system runs hot....and it's unstable.....(one crash trying to launch a site)

    It feels like all this championing for flash is a direct result of apple being against it.
    Probably

    Maybe I'm just out of touch because I gave up on flash years ago so I'm not as "hurt" as some here are. But it's not like this is a standard feature across all phones like text or voicemail. It's a web plugin that has yet to prove itself on ANY mobile OS. So wheres the entitlement coming from?
    I don't know anyone personally who has even noticed that they can't see flash content on their mobile phones. (I think people just ignore it....it just isn't that important to most end users)
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Harnoy View Post
    Is your jailbroken iPhone running flash by any chance..... the ad supported games coming from the App store DON'T cause battery life issues or crashes....is it possible that you have some errr....non-standard ware installed?? (not a criticism, just a question)
    One is a standard iPhone, no jailbreak. I have 2. That one gets ads that crash. The jailbroken one I actually haven't used in a while and am actually looking to sell.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    just curious, but does any phone offer a good flash experience? It feels like all this championing for flash is a direct result of apple being against it.

    Maybe I'm just out of touch because I gave up on flash years ago so I'm not as "hurt" as some here are. But it's not like this is a standard feature across all phones like text or voicemail. It's a web plugin that has yet to prove itself on ANY mobile OS. So wheres the entitlement coming from?
    I don't know about the OP, but I don't appreciate any corporation making up my mind for me.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I don't know about the OP, but I don't appreciate any corporation making up my mind for me.
    ?!? They aren't making up your mind for you...... If you want a phone experience where it runs hot, crashes, and gets poor battery life....then by all means use a phone that has flash capabilities.

    A good number of the websites that have flash videos now offer them in H264 format...those will play quite well on iPhones. As to other sites....mostly simple games, and <cough> ****, just really aren't all that important to your life....(well maybe one of those might be )
    Last edited by Harnoy; 05/10/2010 at 03:31 AM. Reason: Edit: The auto-nanny on this site turned p()rn into ****.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    My first point about if MSFT banned Flash was a bit facetious. But using Apple's thinking, MSFT should also think for us and dictate the "user experience". I'd like to see how that'd go over when people couldn't view their favorite sites. Apple always gets a free pass for exclusion.

    Many websites still haven't switched yet, it's too soon to discard Flash entirely, is also what I'm trying to say. Don't just outright stop people from viewing those sites if it's their choice. I applaud the ones who attempt to work with Flash, for the time being anyway.

    Speaking of killing battery life and crashing, games with all those ads running in the top bar kill my battery life and sometimes crash(just close suddenly) on my iPhone. So I guess we need to ban those too, yet I read even more ads may be coming with iPhone 4.0. Yeah thanks for the double standard, Apple. You allow buggy ads that rotate and flash, but no Flash itself.
    You're comparing apple's and oranges here. We're talking mobile platforms, not desktops. And have you seen what Microsoft is doing with WM7? Totally taking the Apple approach ... why? Because it works.
  10. #50  
    I just gave MSFT banning as an example of why I think Apple is overcontrolling and being allowed to get away with it. If MSFT even tried that, they'd be accused of all sorts of things.

    And I lost interest in WM7 the day they said no copy and paste. If they fix that issue, then maybe I'll consider using it.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I just gave MSFT banning as an example of why I think Apple is overcontrolling and being allowed to get away with it. If MSFT even tried that, they'd be accused of all sorts of things.

    And I lost interest in WM7 the day they said no copy and paste. If they fix that issue, then maybe I'll consider using it.
    They also said no flash support, 'controlling your user experience'; which is it? You confuse me.
  12. #52  
    I missed the part about no Flash support. I quit reading the features of WM7 some time ago.

    I also forgot you now have to call it Windows Phone 7.
    Last edited by The Phone Diva; 05/10/2010 at 02:04 AM.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. urkel's Avatar
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    My first point about if MSFT banned Flash was a bit facetious. But using Apple's thinking, MSFT should also think for us and dictate the "user experience". I'd like to see how that'd go over when people couldn't view their favorite sites. Apple always gets a free pass for exclusion.
    Apple's entire business is based on them "dicatating the user experience" by forcing rules and limitations on their OS, Hardware and 3rd party apps. They refuse to license their OS and have a strict Human Interface Guidelines. And this has given them both success (a stable, aesthetically uniform virus free OS) and failure (a marketshare dwarfed by MS). This is the way Apple has managed themselves in the past so why is it surprising they are restricting flash to manage their future?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    But using Apple's thinking, MSFT should also think for us and dictate the "user experience". I'd like to see how that'd go over when people couldn't view their favorite sites. Apple always gets a free pass for exclusion.
    You're ignoring history with that statement. Microsoft has already gone through a time where people couldn't view their favorite sites. Internet Explorer.

    IE started off as a product with intentional incompatibilities that was forced on 100% of Windows machines. The intention was to crush Netscape but in creating non-standard requirements it broke many websites and forced people to rewrite sites to fit what MS wanted. And every generation of IE continually goes against standards because they feel ActiveX and their ideas are best.

    So how did that go over on people? The users who understood the web were smart enough to move to Firefox, Opera, Chrome and Safari and quit complaining because the alternatives to IE turned were better. So if people really hate Apple restricting them from using flash on a phone then they can freely move to the competitor that allows you to use flash. Oh wait... NOBODY offers a flash phone yet. So what are we complaining about then?
    Last edited by Urkel; 05/10/2010 at 09:11 AM.
  14. #54  
    Skyfire supposedly allows you to view Flash, although I haven't tried it yet to see how it works. Android 2.2 will supposedly try to support Flash. There were some phones that had Flash Lite on them. SE phones can be modded to allow Flash themes.

    Sure support is limited, but at least there's no outright exclusion. Until Flash is declared truly on it's deathbed, people should be able to view sites still using it. And there are major sites still using it. The only possible "good" thing about this is maybe developers will redo their sites a bit faster and/or offer a better mobile site for mobile users, then Adobe will have to actually fix Flash or finally drop it. But I really don't see the death of Flash for a few more years, especially since so many big sites refuse to drop it.


    And I wasn't aware you couldn't view your favorite sites on IE. That seems to be the default browser developers cater to, although that's not always a good thing.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  15. #55  
    Little Miss Phone Diva

    Alrighty then.... I'm through playing nice..... you're arguing in circles....you haven't even researched your obviously biased statements as is painfully clear when you say you weren't aware of what IE was doing. You don't know specifically if Android will or will not support flash..... Bah.... (I have used one phone that would display a flash site.... that was a Nokia 900 running a version of the Firefox browser....and it crashed trying to get the site to display the first time.)

    Flash Lite is an out of date version of Flash....most sites don't talk it any more.

    And just to put the record straight....Apple supports OPEN WEB STANDARDS, FULLY!!. (see Web Kit for details). Adobe Flash is neither a standard, nor is it open. MSFT has not, in the past, supported open web standards....instead they built a corrupted version of it hoping that their power position in the market would cause web developers to support IE exclusively thus driving out other competitors. That is a company that is already dictating to you where you can browse and what you can see. All that Apple is doing is saying that they are not going to support buggy, bloated, inefficient code, that isn't moving forward to support modern technologies.....and isn't open either. (and that is only for Mobile platforms....flash runs on their laptops and desktops).
  16. #56  
    http://androidandme.com/2010/04/news/interviews/froyo-android-2-2-will-officially-come-with-flash-10-1-in-its-frosty-center/

    I don't know if it'll come true or not, but that's what they say.

    At one time, I remember some Nokia smartphones had Flash Lite.

    As for MSFT, I had thought one reason they drove out competitors was because IE was bundled and could never be uninstalled so people were just more likely to use what's installed than look elsewhere. Same with WMP. Which is why EU clamped down on that and why we can now uninstall newer versions of IE. Bundling was a big sore point with the EU. It's true, I never realized they deliberately built a consistently insecure browser they have to keep patching, just to drive out competitors. I knew IE never passes the web standard test, but thought they were just inept, sticking to old ways and refusing to change.

    As for Apple claiming to support open standards, their record shows they don't either.
    Last edited by The Phone Diva; 05/10/2010 at 04:40 AM.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  17. #57  
    http://news.cnet.com/2100-1023-274998.html

    I found this really old article from 2001, is this part of what you were talking about?


    http://news.cnet.com/2100-1023-941926.html
    This article is so old, it's obsolete, but this is what I was saying earlier. Seems website builders code for IE first, even today, before all others. Although with FF now no. 2, one site I regularly visit didn't even code for IE8 until about 3 months ago, but suggested FF. That was refreshing.
    Last edited by The Phone Diva; 05/10/2010 at 05:28 AM.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Please name a single one of the hundreds of Flash-based iPhone apps that didn't run properly, prior to Apple's ban.
    Please name me one of the "hundreds of flash-based iPhone apps" that were any good and not just taking up space in the app store?

    Like flash based games, these apps are horrible. By the way, with over 200,000 apps in the app store, we are talking about less than .01 percent of the available apps. Nobody cares.

    brmiller, you have this weird obsession with apple. If you don't like their policies buy a different device. You come off sounding like a crazy person.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    http://androidandme.com/2010/04/news/interviews/froyo-android-2-2-will-officially-come-with-flash-10-1-in-its-frosty-center/

    I don't know if it'll come true or not, but that's what they say.

    At one time, I remember some Nokia smartphones had Flash Lite.

    As for MSFT, I had thought one reason they drove out competitors was because IE was bundled and could never be uninstalled so people were just more likely to use what's installed than look elsewhere. Same with WMP. Which is why EU clamped down on that and why we can now uninstall newer versions of IE. Bundling was a big sore point with the EU. It's true, I never realized they deliberately built a consistently insecure browser they have to keep patching, just to drive out competitors. I knew IE never passes the web standard test, but thought they were just inept, sticking to old ways and refusing to change.

    As for Apple claiming to support open standards, their record shows they don't either.

    Here you go, a first hand look at Flash on Android...I will ruin the surprise for you, its awful......JeffCroft.com: On the Android Flash demo at FlashCamp Seattle
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Here you go, a first hand look at Flash on Android...I will ruin the surprise for you, its awful......JeffCroft.com: On the Android Flash demo at FlashCamp Seattle
    Yeah thats why they call it a BETA or DEMO. They haven't finished developing for it, and even though it crashes and its buggy it's still faster then HTML5 on android devices. You can check that out here:



    -Toaster
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