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  1. #181  
  2. #182  
    Actually the truth is in comments in that link. Flash can act as container for h.264 as well, plus this is only related to videos whereas Flash can do a whole lot more so it's not exactly an Apples to Apples comparison if one is considering the whole Apple vs Flash debate. When I can take up and iPhone browse to a desktop formatted site and at least run the videos with no hassles, then I'll be the first to say, they've won. Right now, they've got a lot more work to do.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  3. #183  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    Actually the truth is in comments in that link. Flash can act as container for h.264 as well, plus this is only related to videos whereas Flash can do a whole lot more so it's not exactly an Apples to Apples comparison if one is considering the whole Apple vs Flash debate. When I can take up and iPhone browse to a desktop formatted site and at least run the videos with no hassles, then I'll be the first to say, they've won. Right now, they've got a lot more work to do.
    I think you're the minority here; who REALLY wants to browse a website on their 3.7" device that's intended/formatted for desktops? That's why mobile versions exists …

    And whether Flash is used as a container for H.264 isn't relevant, the fact of the matter is a vast majority of the videos are and continue to be encoded using the H.264 codec which is compatible with most modern browsers and doesn't require Flash to be viewed.
  4. #184  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    I think you're the minority here; who REALLY wants to browse a website on their 3.7" device that's intended/formatted for desktops? That's why mobile versions exists …
    If mobile sites weren't watered down, I'd agree but I'd prefer to have the same experience(as possible) whether I'm on my desktop or Droid. And I'm not the only one.

    As screens have gotten bigger, desktop formatted sites have been much easier to view and they look just fine on a 3.7" screen believe it or not. In fact the newer mobile browsers (skyfire, Dolphin, Xscope) all have settings to allow for desktop formatted viewing only. Even my Pre with it's 2.7" screen was fine with desktop formatted sites. Whether I'm in the minority, I can't say for sure, but if I had to guess, I'd say probably not.

    And whether Flash is used as a container for H.264 isn't relevant, the fact of the matter is a vast majority of the videos are and continue to be encoded using the H.264 codec which is compatible with most modern browsers and doesn't require Flash to be viewed.
    Of course it's relevant. Your point is taken and yes it means other viable containers have a much better chance of competing, however, h.264 still requires a container even if that container is an html5 compliant browser. So if the web designer decides to use flash as that container and not html5, then...you still can't view the video without flash whether you're using a compliant browser or not.

    And yes I guess one can extrapolate that the move to more h.264 encoding is a step in the html5 direction, however, as someone pointed out in the comment section, Adobe flash devs have been using the h.264 codec for years so this is nothing new:

    Exploring Flash Player support for high-definition H.264 video and AAC audio | Adobe Developer Connection

    In the end, I can't take much away from that graph, but speculation.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
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    #185  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    I think you're the minority here; who REALLY wants to browse a website on their 3.7" device that's intended/formatted for desktops? That's why mobile versions exists .
    Ideally a Mobile version is great. But what I worry about is that if a site doesnt give a mobile version then they give an app... for Apple-only. If the updated Hulu is to be an example of how Flash will affect mobile then the best (only?) mobile experience wont be on the flash site, but on the standalone app. And if that's Apple-only then WebOS, Android, RIM etc may be locked out or forced with a non-optimized experience due to using a desktop site on a mobile device.

    As much as some people will accuse that we are somehow taking Apple's side in this "war", I think for most of us it's a lot more selfish than that. I don't root for Apple or Adobe, I root for myself. The end users dont want to know how a site is written, they just want it to work on whatever device they visit the site on.

    Engadget - Hulu sticking with Flash
  6. #186  
    With Android's ever increasing market share, we'll see more apps being developed for both Apple and Google not just Apple.

    However, if mobile flash becomes optimized enough to offer close to the same experience as on the desktop and there is some indication this is becoming a reality(based on the demos I've seen), then it'll be a wash as there'll be little need for a dedicated app.

    Also with screens heading into the 4.3-5" range, and with desktop-like graphic performance in phones like the Galaxy S, dedicated apps are going to be less and less appealing.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  7. #187  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    With Android's ever increasing market share, we'll see more apps being developed for both Apple and Google not just Apple.
    I have an incredible and a Nexus (along with an iPhone 3GS, and a Pre Plus) and I can tell you the apps that are available for both Android and the iPhone are far better on the iPhone. Android has a ways to go.
  8. #188  
    This is interesting:
    Cellphones Now Used More for Data Than for Calls - NYTimes.com

    Cell phones are more and more about the apps and other usage aside from what we think is their main purpose, the phone. I'd have to agree, at this point. I barely answer my phone as is, but I sure spend a lot of time on it.
  9. #189  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    I have an incredible and a Nexus (along with an iPhone 3GS, and a Pre Plus) and I can tell you the apps that are available for both Android and the iPhone are far better on the iPhone. Android has a ways to go.
    That depends on the Apps and is an entirely subjective matter. Some consider smooth animations and glitz a measure of superiority, I don't. I consider gmail / google voice / google search / google nav / google maps / google sky / shazam / barcode scanner / mixzing music player / wifi analyzer / google goggles / ak notepad / dolphin hd / xscope / skyfire 2.0 / Touchdown Exchange / News and Weather / Droidlive / Streamfurious among others, to be equal and in many cases superior to what's on the iPhone. I don't do facebook or twitter so I couldn't care less about those apps. For what I do and how I do it, the iPhone is not only limiting but inadequate IMO. For others it's the exact opposite. To each his own.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  10. #190  
    That's definitely NOT true, mobileman. Android apps are excellent! And the developers constantly update and listen to customers. I even got an email from one when I reported a bug.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. #191  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    I've never owned a Netbook over $250 so I'm genuinely curious what model you are speaking of that has such high quality screens. I find the 10" iPad screen to be crystal clear so I'd like to do a side-by-side comparison to the model you prefer since I'm buying a netbook for my mom this month.
    FWIW, I recently bought a Dell 1012 netbook with a 1366x768 display for my son. It seems to be clear and sharp to me. It does a pretty job for watching movies or live TV using the built in ATSC tuner.

    What just about everyone is missing in this thread is that it's not just Flash. Apple's developer agreement dictates that “an Application may not itself install or launch other executable code”. So they're not only not allowing Flash, they're not allowing Sliverlight, .Net apps using the MSFT CLR, or Java applets either. The most recent version goes further and bans cross compilers so that the developer has to use Apple's API w/o any language wrappers. IIRC, part of the reasoning behind that and their App Store approval process was to try to limit the situations where a user would start a 3rd party app or go to a website and have the non-Apple reviewed code start sucking up all the resources on the phone. This could cause the phone to crash, lockup, and/or cause severe battery drain. Apple is more concerned about those issues on their mobile non-laptop platforms, so they don't have the same developer limitations on their desktops or laptops. If Flash doesn't perform very well on OS X, that may not help acceptance by Apple, but it's not the primary reason for the ban.
  12. #192  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    That's definitely NOT true, mobileman. Android apps are excellent! And the developers constantly update and listen to customers. I even got an email from one when I reported a bug.
    While the developers may listen, I disagree that Android apps are on the same level as the iPhone.
  13. #193  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    That depends on the Apps and is an entirely subjective matter. Some consider smooth animations and glitz a measure of superiority, I don't. I consider gmail / google voice / google search / google nav / google maps / google sky / shazam / barcode scanner / mixzing music player / wifi analyzer / google goggles / ak notepad / dolphin hd / xscope / skyfire 2.0 / Touchdown Exchange / News and Weather / Droidlive / Streamfurious among others, to be equal and in many cases superior to what's on the iPhone. I don't do facebook or twitter so I couldn't care less about those apps. For what I do and how I do it, the iPhone is not only limiting but inadequate IMO. For others it's the exact opposite. To each his own.
    Well, I don't really use any google apps so I guess that eliminates most of your list. Give me a break with Touchdown Exchange. This is Androids biggest weakness. You need to purchase a third party app to get a decent exchange email client.

    My company uses a self signed cert and enforces security policies; android fails badly with enterprise email. It is probably really good though for google voice.

    What news, weather, notepad app is better on android? I will give it a try.
    Last edited by mobileman; 05/14/2010 at 09:21 PM.
  14. #194  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Well, I don't really use any google apps so I guess that eliminates most of your list. Give me a break with Touchdown Exchange. This is Androids biggest weakness. You need to purchase a third party app to get a decent exchange email client.

    My company uses a self signed cert and enforces security policies; android fails badly with enterprise email. It is probably really good though for google voice.

    What news, weather, notepad app is better on android? I will give it a try.
    Nothing aside from Blackberry email comes close to Touchdown Exchange as far as I know. If there's an equivalent on the iPhone, please let me know. It's not just a decent email client, it's an excellent one and worth every penny. Yes I do agree the default email client isn't the best but there are options available.

    Platforms

    Also if you're not taking advantage of the Google apps, you're pretty much missing out on a lot of the cool points of Android. May I ask why you own an Android phone?


    AK Notepad is the notepad I prefer but I haven't tried all. And for news I like Newspaper as well as the news and weather widget.
    Last edited by darreno1; 05/14/2010 at 10:37 PM.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  15. #195  
    Since Android developers don't seem to need to go through overly strict approval process, updates seem faster and they'll update yet again to improve things or if bugs are reported. User feedback seems more important to them(well to the good ones anyway). Also those wireless sync apps Apple doesn't like, similar apps are OK on Android. Thank for not overcontrolling how to sync, Android.


    As for apps, I don't know about better exactly but I find these excellent.

    Color Note works for me, it's notes with reminders and color coding. AK Notepad is also decent as a basic notepad. I have that too.

    The Weather Channel keeps the weather in the notification bar and the widget updates periodically. You need that in Chicago, LOL! AccuWeather may do the same thing, I just prefer TWC.

    News apps, I downloaded USA Today. There's others depending on what you prefer. My particular phone also has an auto-update news feature but this may not be available on the N1.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  16. #196  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    Nothing aside from Blackberry email comes close to Touchdown Exchange as far as I know. If there's an equivalent on the iPhone, please let me know. It's not just a decent email client, it's an excellent one and worth every penny. Yes I do agree the default email client isn't the best but there are options available.

    Platforms

    Also if you're not taking advantage of the Google apps, you're pretty much missing out on a lot of the cool points of Android. May I ask why you own an Android phone?


    AK Notepad is the notepad I prefer but I haven't tried all. And for news I like Newspaper as well as the news and weather widget.
    I own several android devices, as well as a pre plus, iPhone 3GS, and several Blackberries because I do mobile support for my company. I have tried Touchdown and while it may be better than the stock email client (can't be any worse) it does not compare to a blackberry or an iPhone (especially the new 4.0 email client). Having to purchase a 3rd party app for exchange email though is a major barrier to enterprise rollouts.

    I have yet to find a news, weather, game (except home run battle) that is better or comparable to an iPhone counterpart.
  17. #197  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    I own several android devices, as well as a pre plus, iPhone 3GS, and several Blackberries because I do mobile support for my company. I have tried Touchdown and while it may be better than the stock email client (can't be any worse) it does not compare to a blackberry or an iPhone (especially the new 4.0 email client). Having to purchase a 3rd party app for exchange email though is a major barrier to enterprise rollouts.

    I have yet to find a news, weather, game (except home run battle) that is better or comparable to an iPhone counterpart.

    The iPhone exchange email client I've used on my 3g and seen on the 3gs was a joke compared to Touchdown and doesn't support half the client side features. Can you even save an attachment without a third party app? When last did you actually use Touchdown? And please be specific as to how it does not compare to the current iPhone client or even the upcoming 4.0. Name one feature the iPhone email client has that Touchdown doesn't.

    I do agree however that many Enterprises will hesitate to deploy any smartphone but Blackberry mainly for security reasons.

    I have no idea what note, news or weather app you tried and there are probably hundreds in the Market. Name a couple on the iPhone you think are superior and I'll compare them on my coworker's 3Gs.
    Last edited by darreno1; 05/15/2010 at 12:00 AM.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  18. #198  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    The iPhone exchange email client I've used on my 3g and seen on the 3gs was a joke compared to Touchdown and doesn't support half the client side features. Can you even save an attachment without a third party app? When last did you actually use Touchdown? And please be specific as to how it does not compare to the current iPhone client or even the upcoming 4.0. Name one feature the iPhone email client has that Touchdown doesn't.

    I do agree however that many Enterprises will hesitate to deploy any smartphone but Blackberry mainly for security reasons.

    I have no idea what note, news or weather app you tried and there are probably hundreds in the Market. Name a couple on the iPhone you think are superior and I'll compare them on my coworker's 3Gs.
    Ok, let's start with in wouldn't recognize my companies encryption policies. Or how about the UI is awful. Or maybe the fact that (last I checked) it was $20 a copy. If my company rolled out thousands of android devices (we have about 8500 iPhones now) how do we go about buying licenses for each and making sure all users are running the latest versions?

    Second, I will put the iPhone 4.0 email client up against any device, including the blackberry. Things likes multiple exchange accounts, unified inbox, fast switching between accounts, conversation view, support for public and self signed certs, enterprise level security policy and encryption. Blows away the Android experience.
  19. #199  
    Are you using 4.0 beta?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  20. #200  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Are you using 4.0 beta?
    We have a few devices at my office running the beta.

    I like Android, and it's great to have the competition between the two. I just think at the moment the iPhone os is more polished and the apps are better. That might change next week, when google has their big unveil.
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