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  1.    #1  
    I'll quote
    Apple's been bigger than HP by terms of market cap since 2007. HP is around $125 billion, and Apple is $238 billion currently. As far as Cash. HP had around 14 billion as of December. Apple got around 40 billion currently. That's why everyone speculated on them buying ARM or some other major chipmaker. They are getting like Microsoft was 10 years ago Everyone wondering what they are waiting on buying.
    Whats your input?
  2. #2  
    Apple's market cap is higher, but its real assets are worth far less. It's actually ridiculous that a company making consumer products and boutique computers has such a high market value. Really, it has alot to do with the games that Apple plays, such as lowballing their expectations every quarter so they can subsequently blow them out. Thing is, analysts can be sheep like anyone else, so it doesn't surprise me that Apple's stock is so high.

    However, HP is a much larger company selling quality products in many more strategic areas. I believe HP's annual revenues are on the order of $115 billion, which is more than double Apple's annual revenues. HP is, in my opinion, the much more viable and important company.
    Last edited by wynand32; 04/28/2010 at 04:26 PM.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Apple's market cap is higher, but its real assets are worth far less. It's actually ridiculous that a company making consumer products and boutique computers has such a high market value. Really, it has alot to do with the games that Apple plays, such as lowballing their expectations every quarter so they can subsequently blow them out. Thing is, analysts can be sheep like anyone else, so it doesn't surprise me that Apple's stock is so high.

    However, HP is a much larger company selling quality products in many more strategic areas. I believe HP's annual revenues are on the order of $115 billion, with is more than double Apple's annual revenues. HP is, in my opinion, the much more viable and important company.
    Thank you!
    You pretty much just helped me shutdown my buddy over here that owns an iPhony. He's surprised that the Pre has a community thats so heavily invovled. He just went like "wow" that was fast.
  4. emuneee's Avatar
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    #4  
    I think a large part of Apple's "perceived value" is there ability to innovate, market, and brand. They've done a good job of managing that. They managed to continue to break sales records throughout the recession.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Wow. PreCentrals first HP fanb0y!
    lol (seriously, i actually did lol this time)
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Wow. PreCentrals first HP fanb0y!
    So, saying that HP is a better company than Apple makes me a "fanb0y"? Really, I grow weary of seeing that word...
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  7. #7  
    HP operates more like a conglomerate these days than individual company so it's difficult to compare the two.

    If you scale down HP's size, Apple is "worth more," but that's making things extremely simple from a business perspective.
  8. #8  
    It's much more complex than just looking at cash, capital and market value as those comparisons don't really mean much between such large companies.

    Tech nerds, like most of the members here, should not try to analyze the business side of things cause it's really too complex for most of them. Just like the business people (analysts) should not really comment on the tech side of things because they don't know the details of programming or hardware design.

    People here complain about analysts not giving palm a chance. Well, they live in their world. They care about money, not webos. Members here care about webos, let's stay out of the money discussion.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Apple's market cap is higher, but its real assets are worth far less. It's actually ridiculous that a company making consumer products and boutique computers has such a high market value. Really, it has alot to do with the games that Apple plays, such as lowballing their expectations every quarter so they can subsequently blow them out.
    Ah. I though their market value was due to them selling millions of OSX devices per quarter, and having sold about 80 million iPhone/touch devices to date. Silly me.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator64 View Post
    It's much more complex than just looking at cash, capital and market value as those comparisons don't really mean much between such large companies.

    Tech nerds, like most of the members here, should not try to analyze the business side of things cause it's really too complex for most of them. Just like the business people (analysts) should not really comment on the tech side of things because they don't know the details of programming or hardware design.

    People here complain about analysts not giving palm a chance. Well, they live in their world. They care about money, not webos. Members here care about webos, let's stay out of the money discussion.

    difference between a "tech nerd" commenting is when we talk about things we don't understand, there is no harm done. when the business guys talk about things they dont understand (often it is sadly business and economics that elude them) we end up bailing them out.

    people everywhere are stupid, I say that being foolish in a forum is one of the safer, and most appropriate places to do it.


    talk on, fellow technerds, talk on.
    There are four lights.
  11. gbp
    gbp is offline
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Ah. I though their market value was due to them selling millions of OSX devices per quarter, and having sold about 80 million iPhone/touch devices to date. Silly me.
    Microsoft sold 100 million Windows 7 in about five months. Apple iPhone and iTouches will eat into each other sales which is not helped by iPad.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Microsoft sold 100 million Windows 7 in about five months. Apple iPhone and iTouches will eat into each other sales which is not helped by iPad.
    Not sure what you point is about Microsoft. You do know that there is room for two companies to be successful? Why does Apple care if Touch/iPad/iPhone sales "eat into" each other? Its still an Apple product you are buying.

    PS: its iPod Touch, not iTouch.
    Last edited by mobileman; 04/28/2010 at 05:39 PM.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Apple's market cap is higher, but its real assets are worth far less. It's actually ridiculous that a company making consumer products and boutique computers has such a high market value. Really, it has alot to do with the games that Apple plays, such as lowballing their expectations every quarter so they can subsequently blow them out. Thing is, analysts can be sheep like anyone else, so it doesn't surprise me that Apple's stock is so high.

    However, HP is a much larger company selling quality products in many more strategic areas. I believe HP's annual revenues are on the order of $115 billion, which is more than double Apple's annual revenues. HP is, in my opinion, the much more viable and important company.
    You couldn't be more wrong.

    The number one reason why corporations exist is to increase shareholder value. One of the ways that a corporation does that is by making a lot of money and no tech company brings in as much profit per product than Apple. Look at the chart in this web link and study it. Copy and paste it.

    businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-revenue-vs-operating-profit-share-of-top-pc-vendors-2010-3

    Furthermore, you talk about how HP brought in double Apple's revenue. That doesn't mean jack. What's important is what your profit is after you have paid the bills. In the end Apple stomps all over HP when it comes to profits. I could go on and on. But, I'll give you an example to make it simple. If you had a pizza joint that sold pizzas for $4.99. This pizza joint is a no frills basic restaurant. You sell 3,000 on average per month and after paying for all the ingredients, employees wages, rent, etc and your profit, 3,742.50. That is 25% of your revenue that you have as profit.

    Then you have the Pizza Place and it gives you pizzas of a gourmet quality. They have nice booths, a bar, a wait staff, etc. But, their pizzas cost 7.99 and they only sell 1,750 pizzas per month, but their profits after paying all expenses is 6991.25. That is 50% of your revenue. They are able to get 50% profit because they are very good at keeping expenses low, while giving a better atmosphere, thus being able to charge more per pizza.

    Now, which restaurant would you rather own? Just like you wouldn't work twice as hard for half the hourly wage if you didn't have to. Apple is not going to sell twice as many computers for half the price of what they are currently selling.

    The above examples are HP and Apple. It's like Ford = HP and BMW = Apple. If you were to ask the average schmuck on the street which car they would like to drive, they would say BMW, BUT can only afford to drive a Ford. That's HP and Apple. But, the kicker is that HP really can't take anymore significant marketshare in the PC market from others like Dell, since Dell is a fierce competitor. But, all Apple has to do is lower their prices anytime they want to get more sales and increase market share. So, between the two Apple can continue to grow which can justify their stock price, whereas HP can basically tread water holding onto what they already have and they have the lower stock price and market value.

    Hope you and others learn a thing or two and not be so clueless.
  14. #14  
    i'll play along...

    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Apple's market cap is higher, but its real assets are worth far less. It's actually ridiculous that a company making consumer products and boutique computers has such a high market value.
    why? does the money people spend on consumer products and "boutiqe" computers have any less value?

    Really, it has alot to do with the games that Apple plays, such as lowballing their expectations every quarter so they can subsequently blow them out. Thing is, analysts can be sheep like anyone else, so it doesn't surprise me that Apple's stock is so high.
    apple does san**** on guidance, but apple's stock is so high because they continue to make profit and GROW. growth is what feeds stock appreciation long term. the bumps on beating estimates are short term.

    However, HP is a much larger company selling quality products in many more strategic areas. I believe HP's annual revenues are on the order of $115 billion, which is more than double Apple's annual revenues. HP is, in my opinion, the much more viable and important company.
    hp does have higher revenue, but lower profit. would you rather own a $115B company making $7.5B profit, or a $43B company making $8.2B profit? why?

    (i'd chose the latter, as it's easier to grow sales at a smaller company, and for every dollar in sales you do have, you make more profit).
  15. urkel's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Ah. I though their market value was due to them selling millions of OSX devices per quarter, and having sold about 80 million iPhone/touch devices to date. Silly me.
    No. The expert wynand is right. Apple's success has everything to do with lowballing expectations, playing manipulative games and that weather controlling machine in Alaska. In fact, many people don't know this but Apple doesn't even has never actually made a product and this computer that I'm typing this post on is actually just the cardboard Apple box with a picture of a Macbook on it.

    Seriously. Some people care way too much about products they have no interest in buying.
  16. #16  
    Lighten up everyone.

    HP's and Apple's market value is based on projected earnings per share and book value.

    The market is a VERY speculative place to be, as valuations can, and HAVE changed daramatically in a matter of weeks, days and, yes, even hours, for all types of publically traded corporations.

    Who cares if Apple is worth more than HP?

    I think what is more relevant here is that HP's acquisition of PALM is an extremely serious statement to the smartphone industry, on various levels:

    1. The smartphone industry is only in its inital stages, and will grow exponentially over the next 10+ years. Significant and calculated investments now could bring in HUGE rewards.
    2. HP, a technology company for many, many years, carefully researched PALM and WebOS, and sees real value above and beyond the current stock pprice of PALM. Clue for investing: buy low, sell high.
    3. HP was participating in the smartphone market with the Ipaq, and likely has a significant IP portfolio; this, coupled with PALM"s is likely going to present a formidable presence in the martphone sector, and APPLE will have to stand up and take notice, because with HP's monetary resources, and WEbOS's quality, along with the IP portfolio, the only thing standing in the way of the success of the HP/PALM devices will be hardware design and build quality.. something Im guessing is probably top level priority at PALM's headquarters right now.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    You couldn't be more wrong.

    The number one reason why corporations exist is to increase shareholder value. One of the ways that a corporation does that is by making a lot of money and no tech company brings in as much profit per product than Apple. Look at the chart in this web link and study it. Copy and paste it.

    businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-revenue-vs-operating-profit-share-of-top-pc-vendors-2010-3

    Furthermore, you talk about how HP brought in double Apple's revenue. That doesn't mean jack. What's important is what your profit is after you have paid the bills. In the end Apple stomps all over HP when it comes to profits. I could go on and on. But, I'll give you an example to make it simple. If you had a pizza joint that sold pizzas for $4.99. This pizza joint is a no frills basic restaurant. You sell 3,000 on average per month and after paying for all the ingredients, employees wages, rent, etc and your profit, 3,742.50. That is 25% of your revenue that you have as profit.

    Then you have the Pizza Place and it gives you pizzas of a gourmet quality. They have nice booths, a bar, a wait staff, etc. But, their pizzas cost 7.99 and they only sell 1,750 pizzas per month, but their profits after paying all expenses is 6991.25. That is 50% of your revenue. They are able to get 50% profit because they are very good at keeping expenses low, while giving a better atmosphere, thus being able to charge more per pizza.

    Now, which restaurant would you rather own? Just like you wouldn't work twice as hard for half the hourly wage if you didn't have to. Apple is not going to sell twice as many computers for half the price of what they are currently selling.

    The above examples are HP and Apple. It's like Ford = HP and BMW = Apple. If you were to ask the average schmuck on the street which car they would like to drive, they would say BMW, BUT can only afford to drive a Ford. That's HP and Apple. But, the kicker is that HP really can't take anymore significant marketshare in the PC market from others like Dell, since Dell is a fierce competitor. But, all Apple has to do is lower their prices anytime they want to get more sales and increase market share. So, between the two Apple can continue to grow which can justify their stock price, whereas HP can basically tread water holding onto what they already have and they have the lower stock price and market value.

    Hope you and others learn a thing or two and not be so clueless.
    Yes, corporations exist to make money. But when a company makes 50-75% profit from a product, that is outrageous in my mind (even as a businessman), because it is a high cost to the average person.

    And regarding your question about Ford vs. BMW; I would pick a Ford. I would pick a Dodge truck over a Ford truck simply because the engine is better.

    And I am strictly Windows and Linux, never Mac because Mac is shoddy and it is a copy of Unix without the open source code.

    And it appears you are strictly a fanb0i of Apple, so I will leave it at:

    YOU ARE HEREBY BANISHED FROM THE GOOD FORUMS. Wait, just wait until Apple starts charging you to visit non-Apple oriented websites (leaves you with Gizmodo and several other tech blogs, as well as Apple.com).
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  18. #18  
    Man the Apple fannies came out in a hurry didn't they
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by arthurthornton View Post
    Yes, corporations exist to make money. But when a company makes 50-75% profit from a product, that is outrageous in my mind (even as a businessman), because it is a high cost to the average person.
    ...

    And I am strictly Windows and Linux, never Mac because Mac is shoddy and it is a copy of Unix without the open source code.
    who do you imagine has 50-75% margin, and what business are you in?
    AAPL - APPLE INC Financial Ratios - Forbes.com
    HPQ - HEWLETT PACKARD CO Financial Ratios - Forbes.com
    MSFT - MICROSOFT CORP Financial Ratios - Forbes.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
    Man the Apple fannies came out in a hurry didn't they
    i think you might be partly confusing those who understand basic finances with apple *******. ;D
  20. bdog421's Avatar
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    #20  
    HP will cut into apples and all other smartphone makers bottom lines regardless, that expands HP's bottom line. The point of it all is more money for HP. Smart move for any company looking to expand it's horizons.$$$$$
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