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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Windows 7 is outstanding, as most reviews note. The whole Apple spin on the issue is rather silly -- it's like saying that "Mac OS X 10.6 is just Mac OS X 10.0 with all its problems and a few tweaks." Nonsensical.

    The Macintosh is headed for a rapid end. All the signs are there, from Apple reducing development on OS X to a crawl to Apple discontinuing developer awards for the Mac.

    They'll sell "Macs" for as long as they're profitable (and how could they not be, being white-box Intel PCs with a 500% markup?), but the Macintosh has no future. It's a walking-dead legacy platform with little innovative development.

    Windows, in contrast, has lots of innovation and new development -- it's an active ecosystem, not a faded legacy box used primarily for running Adobe apps (and serving as a hard drive for iTunes downloads).
    You seem to have contradicted your prior assertion than Mac OX X will disappear in "36 months".

    As for Windows 7, from a Windows blooger called Paul Thurrott:

    "On the Windows side, Windows Vista (see my review) was a major release of Windows, and a huge technological change from Windows XP. By comparison, Windows 7 is a fine-tuning of Windows Vista, a chance for Microsoft to delve into every single nook and cranny of the system, internally and externally, improving everything in ways large and small. The result is a wonderful update, but one that will be more dramatic to XP users than Vista users."

    As for comparisons between Windows 7 and Snow Leopard, from Laptop Magazine:

    "Verdict

    Ultimately, Mac OS X Snow Leopard is a far more streamlined operating system than Windows 7. It boots faster, has excellent software, and boasts outstanding performance. If you can swing the much-debated Mac Tax, you’ll find that Snow Leopard is a very compelling option."
  2. #42  
    I'm quite aware that Apple partisans on this forum, Laptop Magazine, and other venues will insist that the fading Mac OS X is the best thing since sliced bread and that Windows 7 is horrible.

    It doesn't change the fact that Win7 has a significant user interface boost over OS X and that Apple is dramatically scaling back its investment in the obsolete Macintosh platform to focus on "i" products, while Microsoft is doubling down on Windows 7 investment.

    Windows has a future for the next ten years. Macintosh, in contrast, will be EOLed within the next five.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    I'm quite aware that Apple partisans on this forum, Laptop Magazine, and other venues will insist that the fading Mac OS X is the best thing since sliced bread and that Windows 7 is horrible.

    It doesn't change the fact that Win7 has a significant user interface boost over OS X and that Apple is dramatically scaling back its investment in the obsolete Macintosh platform to focus on "i" products, while Microsoft is doubling down on Windows 7 investment.

    Windows has a future for the next ten years. Macintosh, in contrast, will be EOLed within the next five.
    Its true that Windows 7 is less horrible than Vista and possibly even less horrible than the now obsolete Windows XP that I am running. It's not stopping people buying Macs though. Even people I know who make a living writing Windows software are switching themselves or their families to Macs.

    It is probably true that Apple is devoting the majority of development resources to its other OS Platform, but given the iPad alone has sold 1 million devices in its first 28 days that is not too surprising (it's not like the Mac OS X is technically inferior to Windows 7 in any significant way). However Apple finds ways to leverage it's "i" base to sell Macs. For example, developers need a Mac to develop for the iPhone or iPad. Also, the core technology is the same for both platforms (same OS kernel, same compilers). iPhone OS development finds its way back to the Mac.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    It's not stopping people buying Macs though. Even people I know who make a living writing Windows software are switching themselves or their families to Macs.
    "Data" is not the plural of anecdote!

    Worldwide, Macintosh market share has never been lower. It makes a nice hard drive for iTunes and web browsing kiosk, but new developments on that platform outside of Apple itself are few and far between.

    As for a million iPads, that's a great initial uptake, and it only facilitates the Macintosh's pending demise. For the consumers who buy a Macintosh for iTunes storage, web browsing and basic photo sharing, an iPad 2 will do all of that for less.

    For Macintosh users who use it for professional applications (like the Adobe CS), hardware and software innovation is much stronger on the Windows side, and they'll continue the steady migration over to Windows 7.

    The Mac is the meat in the middle of the sandwich -- eaten by the i-series products on the low end and Windows on the power-user end. There really isn't a point to it anymore, which is one reason why Steve Jobs discussed "milking the Macintosh until we find the next big thing" years ago. That's exactly what he's doing.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    "Data" is not the plural of anecdote!

    Worldwide, Macintosh market share has never been lower. It makes a nice hard drive for iTunes and web browsing kiosk, but new developments on that platform outside of Apple itself are few and far between.

    As for a million iPads, that's a great initial uptake, and it only facilitates the Macintosh's pending demise. For the consumers who buy a Macintosh for iTunes storage, web browsing and basic photo sharing, an iPad 2 will do all of that for less.

    For Macintosh users who use it for professional applications (like the Adobe CS), hardware and software innovation is much stronger on the Windows side, and they'll continue the steady migration over to Windows 7.

    The Mac is the meat in the middle of the sandwich -- eaten by the i-series products on the low end and Windows on the power-user end. There really isn't a point to it anymore, which is one reason why Steve Jobs discussed "milking the Macintosh until we find the next big thing" years ago. That's exactly what he's doing.
    Your assumption (and that's all it is, an assumption) is about as accurate as saying Palm (or now HP?) will be leading in the mobile market in the years to come. They may very well, but there's nothing that accurately supports that theory.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    "Data" is not the plural of anecdote!

    Worldwide, Macintosh market share has never been lower. It makes a nice hard drive for iTunes and web browsing kiosk, but new developments on that platform outside of Apple itself are few and far between.
    Given that Apple only sells high end consumer focused products, world wide share is not really relevant. Its growth in marketshare in North America and Europe is far more important.

    My own gap analysis of the Mac Platform compared to XP did identify a couple of areas where support was a lacking. The ProntoEditNG remote control software is not available for MacOS (OTOH a netbook is cheaper than many Prontos) , Nikon does not provide a driver for my old 35mm film scanner (which I no longer use much) and the new Quicken for Mac is very limited compared with the PC version. However, it is built on a new codebase unlike the PC version or the old Mac version so the next version may close the gap and even improve on the creaky old Windows version.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    As for a million iPads, that's a great initial uptake, and it only facilitates the Macintosh's pending demise. For the consumers who buy a Macintosh for iTunes storage, web browsing and basic photo sharing, an iPad 2 will do all of that for less.
    It's not going to do much for the sales of cheap Windows laptops either. Its already killed the growth in Netbook sales.
  8. #48  
    brmiller1976, where to begin with your inaccurate statements…

    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    The Macintosh is headed for a rapid end. All the signs are there, from Apple reducing development on OS X to a crawl to Apple discontinuing developer awards for the Mac.
    Apple has been steadily bringing out new versions of Mac OS X every 18 - 24 months. Apple has brought out about 7 versions of Mac OS X, versus Microsoft bringing out 2, Windows XP and Windows 7. I'm not including Vista because it was crap from the start and Windows 7 didn't advance Vista it was basically a service pack for all the flaws in Vista. In all the years of Apple constantly refining Mac OS X there really is no reason to keep bringing out new version on that tight development schedule when Snow Leopard is a very refined OS. They can now concentrate on pushing the UI further into something new, which of course is going to take a lot more time.

    Let's see when the next Windows version will be out. Whatever date they give, be sure to add two plus years to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    They'll sell "Macs" for as long as they're profitable (and how could they not be, being white-box Intel PCs with a 500% markup?), but the Macintosh has no future. It's a walking-dead legacy platform with little innovative development.

    Windows, in contrast, has lots of innovation and new development -- it's an active ecosystem, not a faded legacy box used primarily for running Adobe apps (and serving as a hard drive for iTunes downloads).
    That statement is just ignorance. 500% markup??? Be for real. As for innovative development. I didn't know you had the inside scoop on what Apple has planned or not planning on Mac OS X innovation in the future.

    Windows innovation?? Really?? You mean like the over 500 computers in my company that are mainly used for emailing in Outlook and surfing the internet? That's some innovative use there. Woohoo!! And our hard drives at work are filled with that horrible McAFee security software that just slows the computers down and increase our help desk calls. It is great to go home and use a Mac that has no anti virus or security software on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Worldwide, Macintosh market share has never been lower. It makes a nice hard drive for iTunes and web browsing kiosk, but new developments on that platform outside of Apple itself are few and far between.
    This link below totally contradicts what you just said.

    macworld.com/article/150746/2010/04/apple_2q_earnings.html

    Now, as I review the chart I see where Mac sales have increased ever quarter versus the previous year ago quarter except one time. Not only that, but look at this quote

    "Oppenheimer noted that the 33-percent growth in Mac unit sales outpaced the overall growth of the market. Research firm IDC has the personal computer market growing at 24 percent, according to Oppenheimer."

    According to Oppenheimer Mac sales are growing faster that the PC market. Can someone please tell me why someone would post such inaccurate info when it is so easy to go out there and find factual info?

    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    As for a million iPads, that's a great initial uptake, and it only facilitates the Macintosh's pending demise. For the consumers who buy a Macintosh for iTunes storage, web browsing and basic photo sharing, an iPad 2 will do all of that for less.
    I watched the iPad keynote and I do remember Jobs showing the iPad being a product that sets in between the iPhone and the Mac. You got your info from where? Links, please, that show the Macintosh's pending demise because of the iPad.

    But, I did find this link

    tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/05/06/how-the-ipad-gobbles-up-netbook-sales/

    That talks about the iPad eating into the netbook market. Hhmm, who was it that said they couldn't make a cheap netbook computer because there were too many compromises, so they created the iPad? That would be Mr Jobs. Looks to me like he might be right that the iPad is better than those cheap netbooks.

    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    There really isn't a point to it anymore, which is one reason why Steve Jobs discussed "milking the Macintosh until we find the next big thing" years ago. That's exactly what he's doing.
    Makes sense to me. Do you seriously think Windows in it's current form is going to continue to be around. If companies didn't push for the next big thing we would still be using dot matrix printers, except they would be faster than the dot matrix printers from 20 years ago.

    Remember when Jobs introduce the iPod nano that had half the capacity of the iPod mini, but was the same price? All the ANALysts and clueless people like you were saying how the iPod nano was going to bomb, etc. Well, see how they were wrong people bought the new iPod nano by the millions. Jobs has said many times that if someone is going to obsolete a product they make, they want to make sure that they are the ones that do it.

    I've read a lot of forum posts over the years on all kinds of topics and I must say you take the cake on more lies and stupidity of any posts I have ever seen.
  9. #49  
    brmiller1976, I just learned today that MS has killed the Courier (vaporware) project. So, along with HP delaying the Slate even after they tried so hard to make it look like it was going to be released within months. Where is all this innovating on the Windows side you speak of when the two largest competitors in the computer business cancel or delay projects on such a new and emerging market that Apple just stepped in and is doing extremely well so far?
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    I've read a lot of forum posts over the years on all kinds of topics and I must say you take the cake on more lies and stupidity of any posts I have ever seen.
    I think brmiller1976 might be my favorite poster of all time on precentral and I wish he had a frequently updated blog so I could read more of his insight.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I think brmiller1976 might be my favorite poster of all time on precentral and I wish he had a frequently updated blog so I could read more of his insight.
    I love your sarcasm.
  12. #52  
    I just found this discussion and I think its interesting. I looked at Apple's 2009 report (available at sec.gov) and about 4 out of every 10 dollars in sales today come from the mac platform. So if the mac is slated to die soon as one poster suggests, that means tremendous change will be coming to the market soon.

    I like my mac, having shifted a year ago from many years of using windows for office use. The leading edge of the office market might be moving to dumb terminals (ipads etc) that tap into centralized servers (HP's purview). I imagine HP can't afford to sit idly by if this is so.

    I know Hurd did a great job of cost cutting at HP when he came over but I haven't kept up. We know Apple has succeeded brilliantly in innovation and marketing. I'd like to know more about HP. What are their recent successes besides the blade servers, intro'd I think a few years ago?
  13. #53  
    first of all br miller is correct regarding Apples domince currently in the smart phone market, and it will dimenish fast. Look at Google right now, they are creaping up fast on Apple, just do really to quanity not quailty. I hear alot of the Pre and Pixi did nothing to revive Palm, and thats because as Brmiller stated it could not scale WeboS to a level that could even Equal that of Google or Apple. As well as limited cash and resources they had to release a beta product the pre on sprint, and play catch up releasing numerious updates, while it hoped the bleeding would stop (a risky but needy thing to do for a sinking company). With HP they are the leader in computer sales, yes Apple Macs are alot more innovated, but restricted to Apple, and alot more expensive. If you even look at the new HP's that are being released they are about 500 to 600 dollars cheaper than the new macs, with new ARM chipsets, and better specs and instruments aboard. Though running Windows 7 is what will keep them behind Apple in terms of innovation, with Web OS they would catapult over Apple in those terms. Yes HP has failed in the smart phone market prior with the ipaq's, but with already boasted through anaylist, fans (laptopmag.com smart phone battles and sorts) and reviewers all over, that Web OS is not only the future, but the better of the 4 Os's on the market its clear and obvious to say with HP funding and keeping Palms development teams they can scale like Google and Apple can. Think about A maturing Web OS in beautiful hardware, with the latested state of the art technology, on every carrier not just state side but worldwide. With each carrier with two or three different designs, lets face it the only argument anyone has at this point at Web OS is the hardware, and inferior specs (due to no update in hardware yet). So Apple *******, negative posters in this post, or whatever these are the facts of the reason why HP if implementing Palm correctly, will not only succeed, but dominate in the future.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    brmiller1976, I just learned today that MS has killed the Courier (vaporware) project. So, along with HP delaying the Slate even after they tried so hard to make it look like it was going to be released within months. Where is all this innovating on the Windows side you speak of when the two largest competitors in the computer business cancel or delay projects on such a new and emerging market that Apple just stepped in and is doing extremely well so far?
    honestly I think canceling the HP slate after reviews of the OS being laggy was a smart move. Remember windows 7 is desktop based, and the ipad is mobile OS based. With a device in the Ipad so much more smoother then any type of windows desktop OS releasing something any less on the performance side to compete with it would be stupid. Apple is doing so well because 1 they are really the first to do it, and do it well. Really all they did was scale a itouch to a bigger screen, and add a faster processor, which as I stated was very smart. 2 besides Google currently Apples fanbase is strong and at this point its like a popular music artist when there on top, their fans will buy whatever is released regardless if when looking at the ipad (my girl has one) its missing things like document editing, flash, cd or dvd drive etc. So for anybody to compete at this point in a tablet type industry, each company has to make sure their product is just as fast and innovated as the Ipad is, hence the reason HP dropped windows 7 version (choppy, slow, desktop oriented) for a Web OS based one (mobile OS type, would be smooth, and innovated).
  15. #55  
    I've already said my views on Apple, so I won't repeat them again.

    I do think the Apple community's double standards are funny. In PCs, market share doesn't matter and the quantity of apps doesn't matter. Apple can have less than 2 percent share and they're "like BMW." Key developers can abandon the Mac and it "doesn't matter" since "iLife is all you need." Apps are about "quality," not quantity. Advanced technology, stability and multitasking are important.

    But in smartphones, they use the exact opposite argument. App quality doesn't matter, it's all about quantity and the number of developers. Market share is crucial -- the smaller the share, the worse off the vendor. 50,000 boob jiggle and fart apps are better than 2,200 varied quality apps. Multitasking and other technical advancement doesn't matter.

    It must be difficult to be an Apple cultist these days. Some will be forced to choose between the dying Mac and the exploding i-platform, and that will cause some serious cognitive dissonance!
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    brmiller1976, where to begin with your inaccurate statements…

    I watched the iPad keynote and I do remember Jobs showing the iPad being a product that sets in between the iPhone and the Mac. You got your info from where? Links, please, that show the Macintosh's pending demise because of the iPad.

    But, I did find this link

    tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/05/06/how-the-ipad-gobbles-up-netbook-sales/

    That talks about the iPad eating into the netbook market. Hhmm, who was it that said they couldn't make a cheap netbook computer because there were too many compromises, so they created the iPad? That would be Mr Jobs. Looks to me like he might be right that the iPad is better than those cheap netbooks.
    I'm not sure you read that article at all. Netbook sales started dropping off before th ipad was announced/rumored to exist. The ipad hasn't really affected netbook sales. Please read before you post misinformation
  17. #57  
    I believe that I generally approach tech from a cost/benefit to myself approach.

    generally apple doesn't make anything I need that cannot be goyen elsewhere cheaper.

    this includes build quality (from my definition of quality) and compatibility with current products.

    I don't buy apple generally because the offer nothing compelling to me at a competitive price.

    I did buy an itouch on sale onece, as a gift for my wife, I'm not against innanimate objects, I am also an admirer of pioneers like gates and jobs. But when it comes to my money apple generally isn't worth it.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    I've already said my views on Apple, so I won't repeat them again.

    I do think the Apple community's double standards are funny. In PCs, market share doesn't matter and the quantity of apps doesn't matter. Apple can have less than 2 percent share and they're "like BMW." Key developers can abandon the Mac and it "doesn't matter" since "iLife is all you need." Apps are about "quality," not quantity. Advanced technology, stability and multitasking are important.!
    The Apple community does not have a double standard. You and about 90% of everyone else interprets things incorrectly.

    You are including Apple in markets in which they do not compete. The largest market share that Microsoft has is in large and enterprise businesses. Two markets that Apple does not compete in. Apple competes in the consumer market, graphics and video industries, education market, small business market, home office, a lot of law firms use Macs, biotech industries. In all those markets Apple has about 20% - 30% market share. A share that any business that makes premium products would be more than happy with.

    So, in the markets that Apple competes in, they have a sizable share. Just like Ferrari doesn't sell nowhere near as many cars as Ford does. No one would say that Ferrari is a failure because they may sell 5,000 cars a year compared to Ford that sells a few million cars a year. But, I'm sure Ferrari has a comparable market to all the other car manufacturers that sell cars that cost over $150,000.

    Who sells more watches? Rolex or Timex? Is Rolex considered a failure because they probably sell less than 1% of the watches that Timex does? Then why is Apple? Seriously, use your brain and see what parts of these broad categories companies actually compete in and then compare those markets that they have in common before making statements like you did above.

    I will agree that there are software packages that are not on the Mac. That's why there is Bootcamp and VMware for those rare instances when a Mac user may need to run Windows.

    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    But in smartphones, they use the exact opposite argument. App quality doesn't matter, it's all about quantity and the number of developers. Market share is crucial -- the smaller the share, the worse off the vendor. 50,000 boob jiggle and fart apps are better than 2,200 varied quality apps. Multitasking and other technical advancement doesn't matter.
    In the smart phone market just about all the major smart phone manufacturers are all competing in the EXACT SAME MARKET. ALL the consumers go to one of the major cell phone carriers stores and they look at all the smart phones. They see that most of the smart phones costs about the same. The voice and data plans are similar in costs. Yes some carriers and manufacturers will be cheaper than others. But, they are all competing for the same consumer.

    So far Apple is the one in the lead. Because of that of course there is going to be more apps, developers, etc. Just like there is more software for the PC vs Mac.

    But, as usual, you have to exaggerate like saying there are 50,000 boob and fart apps, when again you know that's not true. Yes, there are many useless apps in the App Store. BUT, the most important fact you are forgetting is that if you need the most weirdest, unique app for a purpose that only you need (useless to everyone else) you are mostly likely to find it in the App Store versus all the other smartphone platforms. That's because the iPhone is the most popular smart phone currently.

    If you have ever been in a Wal Mart i'm sure you have seen 15 different types of Crest toothpaste, 10 different versions of Bayer aspirin, or the unbelievable different versions of Tylenol that is available. I find all that variety to be overkill. It takes longer for me to make a selection. But when they are some of the largest sellers in consumer health products they want to make sure they don't lose a customer to another brand because they don't have that unique version a customer might be looking for. Sorta like it is with the Apple App Store.

    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    It must be difficult to be an Apple cultist these days. Some will be forced to choose between the dying Mac and the exploding i-platform, and that will cause some serious cognitive dissonance!
    I'm still waiting on this proof that you have that shows that the Mac is dying.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by relic419 View Post
    I'm not sure you read that article at all. Netbook sales started dropping off before th ipad was announced/rumored to exist. The ipad hasn't really affected netbook sales. Please read before you post misinformation
    And does this quote

    "But in support of her theory, she offers a Morgan Stanley/Alphawise survey conducted in March that found that 44% of U.S. consumers who were planning to buy an iPad said that they were buying it instead of a netbook or notebook computer."

    ...not show that the iPad is eating into the netbook market? Like I said in my original post. If the iPad didn't exist I'm sure some of those consumers would buy netbooks and some would buy notebooks.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    And does this quote

    "But in support of her theory, she offers a Morgan Stanley/Alphawise survey conducted in March that found that 44% of U.S. consumers who were planning to buy an iPad said that they were buying it instead of a netbook or notebook computer."

    ...not show that the iPad is eating into the netbook market? Like I said in my original post. If the iPad didn't exist I'm sure some of those consumers would buy netbooks and some would buy notebooks.
    he is correct at this point, with the introduction of the ipad it was the final blow to netbooks. Owning one I can see the advantage it has over a netbook with the main being scaling a mobile OS to a great size, keeping it very fluent and innovated I would take that and at a min 500 dollar price tag any day over a windows desktop netbook, laggy and inferior at this point. Apple can sell devices for sure, but the competition has caught up, and Im not certain Apple has another Ace up their sleeve this time.
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