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  1.    #1  
    OK, for the 'wouldn't it be cool if...' files, here's a convoluted theory:

    Toshiba has these nifty new XScale e740s that are receiving mixed press (good stuff being said about the hardware and bad stuff being said about the lack of XScale support). Considering some separate news stuff, what if Toshiba has a trick up its sleeve?

    Thought 1: Toshiba's e740 is XScale based (Intel PXA250 to be precise). Hmm... According to this, Intel's on the PalmOS ready program with that processor.

    Thought 2: Toshiba's e740 uses an ATI graphic chipset. Unfortunately, I've no way to know whether or not it's the same one covered here, but wouldn't that be special.

    Thought 3: Toshiba has this bluetooth SD card that they manufacture. Hmmm...another company OEMs that card for its PDAs by the name of Palm.

    Thought 4: Palm claims that because of the URL in thought 1 that it shouldn't have the same problems with XScale that PocketPC seems to be experiencing.

    Thought 5: Toshiba isn't above taking a partner's concept and using it to its advantage.

    Final thought: It sure would be cool to hear about a new PalmOS licensee named Toshiba.
    Last edited by Toby; 06/27/2002 at 12:31 PM.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  2.    #2  
    Crud...quoted instead of edited.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  3. #3  
    What I would find most interesting is the price difference between Palm OS and Pocket PC if they do.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  4.    #4  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    What I would find most interesting is the price difference between Palm OS and Pocket PC if they do.
    I doubt if there would be much, if any. The really interesting things, IMO, would be to see which sold more at an equal price (since the merits of the OS and available apps would be the only thing that separated them) and which performed better on XScale (which sorta fits into merits of the OS).
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  5. #5  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    What I would find most interesting is the price difference between Palm OS and Pocket PC if they do.
    My guess is the Palm prices are going to go up on a per-unit basis noticeably with OS 5 and significantly with OS 6. Palm has been skating for years with minor changes to their OS using the exact same CPU architecture throughout that time - essentially a free ride. Even still, they started passing on some of the OS upgrade cost directly to the consumer starting 3 years ago (before that all upgrades were free) in addition to increasing licensing fees by third party producers.

    The (purported) more complex new operating systems are going to cost even more and Palm is going to pass those increased R&D and development costs to the consumer and licensees no doubt. This will translate to a rise in unit costs probably approaching Microsoft's PocketPC OS license fee - and why not? There's already a precedent for it.

    Folks will expect significant increases in functionality for their higher costs and the "improved" OS likely isn't going fulfill consumer expectations, after all, WindowsCE has included Word, Excel, and Outlook functionality since day 1 - Palm users should get the equivalent with their new operating system!

    It will be an interesting development for sure.

    Kupe
  6. #6  
    Originally posted by Kupe
    ...Palm users should get the equivalent with their new operating system
    Most of them do. Palm bundles Docs-to-go, HS has bundled WordSmith, Handera has QuickOffice. Does Sony bundle anything?
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by Toby
    I doubt if there would be much, if any. The really interesting things, IMO, would be to see which sold more at an equal price
    That kinda goes hand-in-hand with my comment. Palm has always had market share, and part of that has been because they are cheaper. We may find out how large a part that has been.

    and which performed better on XScale (which sorta fits into merits of the OS).
    This is going to get obfuscated into ridiculousness (along the same lines as AMD marketing their 1.67GHz chip as a 2000, etc.).
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  8.    #8  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    That kinda goes hand-in-hand with my comment. Palm has always had market share, and part of that has been because they are cheaper. We may find out how large a part that has been.
    There's a gotcha in there, though. This only assumes the same hardware. PalmOS 5 will still be able to run on lower clock-speed ARMs than PocketPC can. There's still room to fill in the low end with cheap 66MHz ARMs (which as long as they can run like a 16MHz Dragonball or faster should suit the cheapies just fine) with monochrome (or lower-end color) screens for those who want them.
    This is going to get obfuscated into ridiculousness (along the same lines as AMD marketing their 1.67GHz chip as a 2000, etc.).
    That's not at all what I'm talking about. I'm talking about speed relative to equal hardware. It would be more like Linux touting how fast $PROGRAM runs on the $PROCESSOR than the Windows version did.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9. #9  
    Originally posted by Toby
    PalmOS 5 will still be able to run on lower clock-speed ARMs than PocketPC can.
    I was unaware. Doesn't that effectively defenestrate the issue (regarding performance on equal hardware)?

    That's not at all what I'm talking about. I'm talking about speed relative to equal hardware. It would be more like Linux touting how fast $PROGRAM runs on the $PROCESSOR than the Windows version did.
    I realize that, but, as with the platform debate, there is much to be taken into consideration, e.g. included features, refined UI, stability, etc. I can obfuscate more ridiculously, if you so wish.
    Last edited by dick-richardson; 07/08/2002 at 07:47 PM.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  10.    #10  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    I was unaware. Doesn't that effectively defenestrate the issue (regarding performance on equal hardware)?
    Not really. I'm curious because of the apparent performance issues with PocketPC on XScale, i.e. the biggest supposed advantage of XScale was the ability to run twice as fast as StrongARM with the same battery performance. PocketPC hasn't been able to squeeze out even twice the performance (sometimes it's even worse than StrongARM at half the speed), and I've not heard much difference on the battery front (which is understandable if there aren't any hooks to cut power when idle).
    I realize that, but, as with the platform debate, there is much to be taken into consideration, e.g. included features, refined UI, stability, etc. I can obfuscate more ridiculously, if you so wish.
    Nah...I'm interested in the whole package ultimately. If somebody released a e740-like machine with PalmOS 5 and it got decent battery life, I'd be all over it, especially with that upcoming triple power battery.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  11. #11  
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Toby
    Not really...
    Why not? If the Palm OS can run on a processor less than half as fast as one needed to push PocketPC, wouldn't it stand to reason that, given equal clock speeds, the PalmOS would perform faster?

    Nah...I'm interested in the whole package ultimately. If somebody released a e740-like machine with PalmOS 5 and it got decent battery life, I'd be all over it, especially with that upcoming triple power battery.
    I've actually been kicking around the idea of a zaurus. Probably not going to happen, though. I've heard the UI is counter-intuitive in many respects (esp. coming from Palm OS conventions). Given the rumor that Redhat might actually focus on the consumer market, a linux pda would seem to be a good choice (although Sharp only officially supports Windows syncronization ). Actually as I write this, I am realizing that handera has my ticket for many moons to come. I wish I had more money to buy toys for it. Regardless, even if I go Redhat, it may be easier to get my handera to sync what I need (I have before).
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  12.    #12  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    Why not? If the Palm OS can run on a processor less than half as fast as one needed to push PocketPC, wouldn't it stand to reason that, given equal clock speeds, the PalmOS would perform faster?
    Not necessarily on all tasks. The PDA apps might at that. The biggest hopeful improvements on equal hardware would be in things like mapping apps or _real_ HTML rendering. The distinction between the two is that PalmOS 5 is written for _ARM_ with each OEM providing a DAL for their variant, and PocketPC is optimized for _StrongARM_.
    I've actually been kicking around the idea of a zaurus.
    I like them in theory. My biggest hurdle is the lack of a few apps that I like [at least one of which I'll lose anyway in OS5 (cyclone), but another that I'd be hard pressed to do without (Pocket Quicken)]. Being able to plug in a wired or wireless card and run nmap would be cool, though.
    Probably not going to happen, though. I've heard the UI is counter-intuitive in many respects (esp. coming from Palm OS conventions).
    It's not really that bad from what I've seen. I'd put it ahead of PocketPC in many respects.
    Given the rumor that Redhat might actually focus on the consumer market, a linux pda would seem to be a good choice (although Sharp only officially supports Windows syncronization ). Actually as I write this, I am realizing that handera has my ticket for many moons to come. I wish I had more money to buy toys for it. Regardless, even if I go Redhat, it may be easier to get my handera to sync what I need (I have before).
    A color OS 5 Handera would rock.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...

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