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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    For the record, some of the stuff is possible now. The example in the first video about directions and the combination of pen and voice is completely possible in OneNote. Obviously he extends his ideas way past where they are now with the reference to sending it to your car and having that integrate with your GPS, but I can record an audio file in OneNote, and take notes during it, and then either read the notes, or play them back where it'll highlight what I've written in sync to when I wrote it in relation to the audio file.

    And the second video, was a demo on Surface, so obviously the software exists at least on that, it's just a matter of whether we'll see it on the tablet PCs that do support simultaneous pen and multitouch (HP 2740p, HP tm2, Lenovo X201T using Wacom or the Dell XT2 and HP tx2 that use N-trig, to name a few) anytime soon. I'm hoping that we do.

    Honestly, there's a ton of interesting stuff that a combination of a pen and touch will let you do that just don't work as well with pure touch. Another example is the "Project Gustav" MS demo, which is an art program that simulates oil-based paints and pastels in very high quality. Now, I've seen other applications that do similar (Artrage is one that I currently use on my own tablet, for example), but you can intuitively smudge paint and manipulate the canvas using your fingers, and use the pen to paint.

    There's similar apps for iPad, (Sketchbook Pro, for example, though I don't like the PC version of that as much as Artrage- I find Sketchbook looks a little more digital, the tools are more difficult to use, and I couldn't justify paying for an $100 app when I'm not an artist and there's a free version of Artrage), but you don't get any pressure sensitivity (which is key in this sort of thing, honestly), and you have to use your fingers as the brushes. Yes, there's a capacitive stylus for the iPad/iPhone, but then you get the vectoring issues. Basically if any part of your hand touches the screen, it confuses the software into thinking it's another touch, an issue that you don't get with the active digitizer.
    Well if the HP slate somehow gets it right out of the gate (by creating an easy OneNote interface and other easy touch controls and apps) there could be a major shift for tablet PCs. Writing and multitouching at the same time is way more advanced than what the iPad and other multitouching android devices offer. Is this idea patented or something, I mean why wouldn't Apple add a feature like this. I was under the idea that tablets required a stylus and offered limited touch on resistive screens.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by likeobama View Post
    Writing and multitouching at the same time is way more advanced than what the iPad and other multitouching android devices offer. Is this idea patented or something, I mean why wouldn't Apple add a feature like this. I was under the idea that tablets required a stylus and offered limited touch on resistive screens.
    The reason Apple didn't do it is because Steve Jobs is against the idea of a pen, more so than the technology, in my opinion.

    The Wacom / N-trig tablets don't use resistive touch, but an active EMR digitizer, with pressure sensitivity, as well as having capacitive touch functionality.

    Microsoft Surface (shown in the second video) uses IR sensors for touch, and then they explain that they use a special IR pen is used in the video.

    And the pens used in these devices are much, much higher quality than a resistive touchscreen stylus. With the EMR pens, pretty much the full range is recognized- a softly pressed stroke makes a thin, light line, and using heavier pressure makes a thicker, heavier stroke. And on a resistive touchscreen, generally fast motion doesn't get recognized as a stroke, but the line ends up being broken. And the other advantage to the EMR pen over resistive stylus is that you get hover capability, where lifting the pen a few centimeters off the screen will move the pointer there, and then when you press on the screen, that's when it acts as a click.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    I'm going to skip #1, because I've already addressed that. If you don't believe you're intelligent enough to avoid spyware and viruses, well then I'll just trust you on that.

    2. Sure, the entire OS wasn't written with touch in mind. I personally find Outlook to be a nightmare no matter what the input method, so I'm not sure that's the best example. But yeah, sure, there's a lot of Windows applications that aren't optimized for pen / touch input. Excel for example, doesn't work nearly as well with a pen / touch as you'd hope for, if you wanted to use it on a tablet. The difference is with the HP Slate, you have the option of connecting a mouse and keyboard at any time. Besides that, the pen offers a ton of functionality that's just not possible on the iPad, unless you'd rather use Evernote or something of the sort by fingerpainting.

    3. Seriously? Besides the OS and maybe MS Office (which actually can be downloaded directly from Microsoft and then you can use your legitimate license key), what software really gets sold in physical disc format anymore? I mean, the Best Buy I worked at 8 years ago used to have an entire section of PC software, probably 4 or 5 aisles worth. Now, there's a single shelf, not even a full aisle. Though, while on the subject, how does one connect a USB drive full of data or pictures or whatever to the iPad again? At least you have the option for that USB DVD drive with the HP Slate.

    4. Do you even have a netbook running Windows or Windows applications? To say that they run "most applications poorly" is just pure exaggeration. Yes, they're not speed demons by any means, but they run most applications great. And if Engadget is correct about there being a Crystal HD accelerator in it, that'll help with most of the Atom's (entirely media-related) shortcomings.

    There is one thing I agree completely with you on, I think. Expecting to use a slate device for everything that you'd do on your main computer isn't going to work well. There's some things that you can do great on a slate style device, and there's other things that just won't work as well. I wouldn't want to write memoirs on either an iPad or a Windows tablet, for example.

    But for most of the usages that one might want to use a tablet: casual web-browsing, note-taking, ebook reading, media, etc., I believe the HP Slate (if it has a pen option, as believed) will do it better. It's more powerful, has more software options (as sizeable as the Apple App Store is), and just doesn't lock you down nearly as much as Apple does. The pen gives you the option of added functionality that's just not possible on the iPad.

    Now, if battery life and simplicity are what you most care about, then by all means, maybe the iPad is for you. I myself would recommend an iPad for my parents before I'd recommend them a Windows tablet, especially knowing their needs. But there are definite advantages to each style.

    I still think the biggest problem with the iPad is that there's no killer app. Like I said, my friends who have them barely even have any real uses for them, and are regretting their purchases. In the early days for the iPhone, the killer app was iTunes and a phone in one device you could carry with you. While Apple has done a better job of marketing the iPad than Microsoft has with their tablets (which they literally do not market at all, unfortunately), I'm not certain that they've demonstrated any reason why the general consumer actually has any real need for the iPad.
    1. You obviously don't work in corporate America. If I wanted to use the slate on my corporate network to do anything ( print,email,etc.) having an enterprise level antivirus program is a must for a windows device.

    2. Connect a keyboard and a mouse? Why not just buy a laptop then. Almost all (non HP) Windows apps would be very difficult to control on the slate. Starting with probably the most used office suite of all...ms office. This is the reason all tablet devices that run a desktop OS have been failures.

    3. probably half of the apps I use on my windows 7 laptop cannot be downloaded.

    As for your no killer app comment, the beauty of the app store is the number of available programs that can be downloaded with ease from a central location. What a killer app is for one person might be very different for another. I for one love the netflix app, the MLB app, and others.The apps I downloaded I use on a daily basis. These are my killer apps.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    1. You obviously don't work in corporate America. If I wanted to use the slate on my corporate network to do anything ( print,email,etc.) having an enterprise level antivirus program is a must for a windows device.

    2. Connect a keyboard and a mouse? Why not just buy a laptop then. Almost all (non HP) Windows apps would be very difficult to control on the slate. Starting with probably the most used office suite of all...ms office. This is the reason all tablet devices that run a desktop OS have been failures.

    3. probably half of the apps I use on my windows 7 laptop cannot be downloaded.

    As for your no killer app comment, the beauty of the app store is the number of available programs that can be downloaded with ease from a central location. What a killer app is for one person might be very different for another. I for one love the netflix app, the MLB app, and others.The apps I downloaded I use on a daily basis. These are my killer apps.
    1. I don't currently, but have in the past. Still never had any issues with viruses connecting to a probably 500-computer network. I was also on a university network for four years with more like 3-4,000 computers connected, and I didn't have an issue with viruses, spyware, etc. while there either.

    2. That's not what I said. I said, if one wants to use a keyboard and mouse for programs, they can. And I have a slate, and you're absolutely wrong that most programs don't control well on it. Word works great on a slate still, despite not having a custom interface. Excel doesn't work as well, but it's an exception to the rule. But even still, no reasonable person is going to use an onscreen keyboard or handwriting recognition to write a novel.

    3. I'm genuinely curious, what are some of those on your Windows 7 laptop that you can't download? I think if you actually looked, you'd be surprised.

    And with the killer app thing: not one of those applications that you use every day needs to be run on a tablet. I mean, I'm sure they're good. But they don't really give much of a justification for the device. You can get MLB At-Bat just as easily on many phones, or a laptop computer, or a netbook. Netflix works on pretty much anything now. There's applications that can be used on the device, and they probably work well. But they just don't have anything to justify the device for many. There's pretty much nothing that only it can do, and there's other devices that do what it does just as well. The biggest thing it has going for it is its simplicity, but I'm not sure that's enough. I know they announced their first day sales numbers (which include the preorders), but I'd be much more curious in their second week numbers.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    1. I don't currently, but have in the past. Still never had any issues with viruses connecting to a probably 500-computer network. I was also on a university network for four years with more like 3-4,000 computers connected, and I didn't have an issue with viruses, spyware, etc. while there either.

    2. That's not what I said. I said, if one wants to use a keyboard and mouse for programs, they can. And I have a slate, and you're absolutely wrong that most programs don't control well on it. Word works great on a slate still, despite not having a custom interface. Excel doesn't work as well, but it's an exception to the rule. But even still, no reasonable person is going to use an onscreen keyboard or handwriting recognition to write a novel.

    3. I'm genuinely curious, what are some of those on your Windows 7 laptop that you can't download? I think if you actually looked, you'd be surprised.

    And with the killer app thing: not one of those applications that you use every day needs to be run on a tablet. I mean, I'm sure they're good. But they don't really give much of a justification for the device. You can get MLB At-Bat just as easily on many phones, or a laptop computer, or a netbook. Netflix works on pretty much anything now. There's applications that can be used on the device, and they probably work well. But they just don't have anything to justify the device for many. There's pretty much nothing that only it can do, and there's other devices that do what it does just as well. The biggest thing it has going for it is its simplicity, but I'm not sure that's enough. I know they announced their first day sales numbers (which include the preorders), but I'd be much more curious in their second week numbers.
    Wait a sec, your trying to tell me that the apps I'm running do not justify my iPad purchase? Just wow. How can you make that crazy assumption?

    I also own a 40 inch LCD tv, is there justification for that? I also own a BMW, is there a justification for that? I can be watching my old television and driving a chevy ( no offense to you chevy drivers). I know you have an iPad dislike but this is one weak argument.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    The reason Apple didn't do it is because Steve Jobs is against the idea of a pen, more so than the technology, in my opinion.

    The Wacom / N-trig tablets don't use resistive touch, but an active EMR digitizer, with pressure sensitivity, as well as having capacitive touch functionality.

    Microsoft Surface (shown in the second video) uses IR sensors for touch, and then they explain that they use a special IR pen is used in the video.

    And the pens used in these devices are much, much higher quality than a resistive touchscreen stylus. With the EMR pens, pretty much the full range is recognized- a softly pressed stroke makes a thin, light line, and using heavier pressure makes a thicker, heavier stroke. And on a resistive touchscreen, generally fast motion doesn't get recognized as a stroke, but the line ends up being broken. And the other advantage to the EMR pen over resistive stylus is that you get hover capability, where lifting the pen a few centimeters off the screen will move the pointer there, and then when you press on the screen, that's when it acts as a click.

    On this chart it shows the HP slate having pen/digitizer support. Are EMR digitizers the norm and would you expect the slate to have that?
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Wait a sec, your trying to tell me that the apps I'm running do not justify my iPad purchase? Just wow. How can you make that crazy assumption?

    I also own a 40 inch LCD tv, is there justification for that? I also own a BMW, is there a justification for that? I can be watching my old television and driving a chevy ( no offense to you chevy drivers). I know you have an iPad dislike but this is one weak argument.
    I never said it doesn't justify it for you, and if I implied that, that wasn't my intention. I mean that for the general public, there's no real reason for the device. As I already mentioned, I know a few people who bought it, and now aren't even sure why. With a pen, you can immediately see things that you couldn't do before are now possible.

    I don't have an iPad dislike, I already said that for my parents, if they were interested in a tablet, the iPad would be better for them. But for many, the iPad doesn't give any reason for them to need it.

    Quote Originally Posted by likeobama View Post
    On this chart it shows the HP slate having pen/digitizer support. Are EMR digitizers the norm and would you expect the slate to have that?
    That's the general assumption. Most PCs that are called tablet PCs do have an active digitizer. And when it says digitizer, again that's generally what it's referring to, whether it's Wacom (which is better) or N-trig. No confirmation of that in the HP Slate yet, but it seems likely.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    I never said it doesn't justify it for you, and if I implied that, that wasn't my intention. I mean that for the general public, there's no real reason for the device. As I already mentioned, I know a few people who bought it, and now aren't even sure why. With a pen, you can immediately see things that you couldn't do before are now possible.

    I don't have an iPad dislike, I already said that for my parents, if they were interested in a tablet, the iPad would be better for them. But for many, the iPad doesn't give any reason for them to need it.



    That's the general assumption. Most PCs that are called tablet PCs do have an active digitizer. And when it says digitizer, again that's generally what it's referring to, whether it's Wacom (which is better) or N-trig. No confirmation of that in the HP Slate yet, but it seems likely.
    Ah, so the general public has no justification for getting an iPad. I see. I don't even know what to really say to you here. Sales of the iPad will soon be over a million units. I tried to get another one over the weekend and couldn't even get into the apple store because there were so many people trying the tablet. I guess to you none of these people have any justification for getting one.

    99 percent of everything we buy we can do without. The thing is people buy things that bring them some type of joy. That's what the iPad does for me. Is that justification enough? The iPad has replaced my kindle and my netbook. For the things I used both of those for, the iPad does them far better. In addition, I just plain enjoy using it. I guess I'm just not part of the "general public"
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Ah, so the general public has no justification for getting an iPad. I see. I don't even know what to really say to you here. Sales of the iPad will soon be over a million units. I tried to get another one over the weekend and couldn't even get into the apple store because there were so many people trying the tablet. I guess to you none of these people have any justification for getting one.

    99 percent of everything we buy we can do without. The thing is people buy things that bring them some type of joy. That's what the iPad does for me. Is that justification enough? The iPad has replaced my kindle and my netbook. For the things I used both of those for, the iPad does them far better. In addition, I just plain enjoy using it. I guess I'm just not part of the "general public"
    Sales of the iPad are nowhere near 1 million units yet, it's closer to 500,000 from everything I've seen. Impressive nonetheless, but the two figures aren't even close. And of course there aren't any in the stores yet. They said a few weeks ago that after covering the preorders and the day 1 stuff that they expected new orders to come in 4/12. Like I said, I'm interested in seeing what the sales are like after the day 1 sales and the preorders.

    And no, early adopters aren't the general public. In this case, they're Apple fans or people who in general just have gadget lust. It's the same for the people who bought the Pre or any device on day 1. Most people aren't going to camp out for a device or show up early or anything along those lines.

    As for "not being part of the general public" uh, no, you're not. If you're on a smartphone forum, debating the merits of one platform over another, that's not even close to the general public, no. And the fact that you're an early adopter makes that even doubly so.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Sales of the iPad are nowhere near 1 million units yet, it's closer to 500,000 from everything I've seen. Impressive nonetheless, but the two figures aren't even close. And of course there aren't any in the stores yet. They said a few weeks ago that after covering the preorders and the day 1 stuff that they expected new orders to come in 4/12. Like I said, I'm interested in seeing what the sales are like after the day 1 sales and the preorders.

    And no, early adopters aren't the general public. In this case, they're Apple fans or people who in general just have gadget lust. It's the same for the people who bought the Pre or any device on day 1. Most people aren't going to camp out for a device or show up early or anything along those lines.

    As for "not being part of the general public" uh, no, you're not. If you're on a smartphone forum, debating the merits of one platform over another, that's not even close to the general public, no. And the fact that you're an early adopter makes that even doubly so.
    This site is now saying sales are over 800k....iPad Stats - Chitika Labs
    I love the assumptions you are making about people and their reasons for buying things. Could it just be, that lots of people are curious about the iPad and are going to the store to try it? It is possible then that some of these people are buying because they really like it.
  11. #51  
    On Thursday, Steve Jobs himself said 450,000 sold. The same day, the site you referenced said 600,000 sold. In other words, that site has absolutely no clue, and is just guessing as much as anyone else.

    And if they're sold out as you say (and Apple predicted) they are, how are people going in and trying them out and buying them? Like I said twice now, I'm looking to see the sales after the preorders and day 1 stuff. It's fully possible I could be surprised, and everyone will be buying them. But to take the first week sales as evidence that everyone is buying them is foolhardy.

    Sprint broke it's first day sales record with the Pre, and we know what happened since.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    On Thursday, Steve Jobs himself said 450,000 sold. The same day, the site you referenced said 600,000 sold. In other words, that site has absolutely no clue, and is just guessing as much as anyone else.

    And if they're sold out as you say (and Apple predicted) they are, how are people going in and trying them out and buying them? Like I said twice now, I'm looking to see the sales after the preorders and day 1 stuff. It's fully possible I could be surprised, and everyone will be buying them. But to take the first week sales as evidence that everyone is buying them is foolhardy.

    Sprint broke it's first day sales record with the Pre, and we know what happened since.
    As of today, iPads are completely sold out in ny. They will probably be restocked this week. The apple store near my house had a line today to just get in the store.

    I have no idea what you think a successful launch of the iPad will be but I know apple is very happy. They released a press realease a few days after the launch claiming 300k sold. If they were not happy with that number, they would have done what palm did with the pre launch....said nothing.

    In a few weeks the 3G model will launch, in addition it will launch in international markets.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80
    But for most of the usages that one might want to use a tablet: casual web-browsing, note-taking, ebook reading, media, etc., I believe the HP Slate (if it has a pen option, as believed) will do it better. It's more powerful, has more software options (as sizeable as the Apple App Store is), and just doesn't lock you down nearly as much as Apple does. The pen gives you the option of added functionality that's just not possible on the iPad.
    This is the main reason why I would get the HP Slate (or any 7"+ Android tablet) over the iPad...options. More RAM would be desirable, and I may hold off for a better-equipped device. But I can (hopefully) boot a linux variant if I want to save battery life, and boot Win7 if I need more compatibility. Ultimately, I see one of these as my all-in-one MCPC, Remote Control, and web browser...Imagine controlling cable tv, streaming local media, and internet content from ONE interface! And that just isnt possible with the iPad. Its more plausible with the HP Slate (or future versions of more open tablets).
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Sales of the iPad are nowhere near 1 million units yet, it's closer to 500,000 from everything I've seen. Impressive nonetheless, but the two figures aren't even close. And of course there aren't any in the stores yet. They said a few weeks ago that after covering the preorders and the day 1 stuff that they expected new orders to come in 4/12. Like I said, I'm interested in seeing what the sales are like after the day 1 sales and the preorders.
    That may be true but considering the 3G version is not yet available, 500,000 is a very good number. I could see them hitting 1 million by the middle of May.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    And with the killer app thing: not one of those applications that you use every day needs to be run on a tablet. I mean, I'm sure they're good. But they don't really give much of a justification for the device. You can get MLB At-Bat just as easily on many phones, or a laptop computer, or a netbook. Netflix works on pretty much anything now. There's applications that can be used on the device, and they probably work well. But they just don't have anything to justify the device for many. There's pretty much nothing that only it can do, and there's other devices that do what it does just as well. The biggest thing it has going for it is its simplicity, but I'm not sure that's enough. I know they announced their first day sales numbers (which include the preorders), but I'd be much more curious in their second week numbers.
    I think it is well known that the iPad can't do anything that some other device cannot also do. It can't replace a laptop/netbook for example but it could replace an iPhone for some people (it's not like the iPhone is particularly good for making calls).

    IMHO The iPad advantage is all about the form factor and instant access to the web/eBooks/PDF documents.
  16. #56  
    For the developers.. Dribbble - Oh yes, working on a text editor for iPad by Chris J. Davis

    The iPad possibilities are endless, people jus't don't see the 'big picture.' Most are too close-minded.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    I think it is well known that the iPad can't do anything that some other device cannot also do. It can't replace a laptop/netbook for example but it could replace an iPhone for some people (it's not like the iPhone is particularly good for making calls).

    IMHO The iPad advantage is all about the form factor and instant access to the web/eBooks/PDF documents.
    I still think the only thing going for it over past tablets is the simplicity.

    I mean, the form factor isn't even anything new:

    iPad: 9.56 x 7.47 x 0.5 inches - 9.7 inch screen - 1.5 lbs

    tc1100: 10.8 x 8.5 x 0.8 inches - 10.4 inch screen - I believe the weight is ~2.3 lbs without the keyboard attached, but have seen different approximations on different sites.

    So yeah, it's a little smaller than the 7-year old tc1100, but not much.

    If it's the form factor that's the main draw, then by that reasoning the 9.21 x 5.70 x 0.57 inches / 1.5 lbs HP Slate is going to sell like crazy.

    Instant-on access isn't really a benefit when you get the same by putting the Windows tablet into standby.

    And with the actual tablet, you're not locked into anything (and even have USB and SD options), as opposed to Apple.

    The only thing that Apple has with the iPad that other tablets haven't had is simplicity because of how they limit you.

    And barkerja, who in their right mind is going to code via an onscreen keyboard anyway? Because you know, according to another poster, if you're going to hook up a keyboard, why not buy a laptop then?

    Though if you so desire, I'm sure that Notepad++ will work on the HP Slate.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    I still think the only thing going for it over past tablets is the simplicity.

    I mean, the form factor isn't even anything new:

    iPad: 9.56 x 7.47 x 0.5 inches - 9.7 inch screen - 1.5 lbs

    tc1100: 10.8 x 8.5 x 0.8 inches - 10.4 inch screen - I believe the weight is ~2.3 lbs without the keyboard attached, but have seen different approximations on different sites.

    So yeah, it's a little smaller than the 7-year old tc1100, but not much.

    If it's the form factor that's the main draw, then by that reasoning the 9.21 x 5.70 x 0.57 inches / 1.5 lbs HP Slate is going to sell like crazy.

    Instant-on access isn't really a benefit when you get the same by putting the Windows tablet into standby.

    And with the actual tablet, you're not locked into anything (and even have USB and SD options), as opposed to Apple.

    The only thing that Apple has with the iPad that other tablets haven't had is simplicity because of how they limit you.

    And barkerja, who in their right mind is going to code via an onscreen keyboard anyway? Because you know, according to another poster, if you're going to hook up a keyboard, why not buy a laptop then?

    Though if you so desire, I'm sure that Notepad++ will work on the HP Slate.
    Your going to put your slate that has about 5 hours of batter life into sleep mode? Ha, let me know how that works out for you.

    Been using my iPad since launch day. In that time I have not looked at my net book once. The iPad has completely replaced it. I use it so much I decided to buy the 3G model when it becomes available and give this one to my wife.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    I still think the only thing going for it over past tablets is the simplicity.

    I mean, the form factor isn't even anything new:

    iPad: 9.56 x 7.47 x 0.5 inches - 9.7 inch screen - 1.5 lbs

    tc1100: 10.8 x 8.5 x 0.8 inches - 10.4 inch screen - I believe the weight is ~2.3 lbs without the keyboard attached, but have seen different approximations on different sites.

    So yeah, it's a little smaller than the 7-year old tc1100, but not much.

    If it's the form factor that's the main draw, then by that reasoning the 9.21 x 5.70 x 0.57 inches / 1.5 lbs HP Slate is going to sell like crazy.

    Instant-on access isn't really a benefit when you get the same by putting the Windows tablet into standby.
    The TC1100 is about 50% thicker than the iPad and about 50% heavier. It also has the disadvantage of running Windows vs the iPhone OS. Windows and MS Office do not work well on small form factor devices in my experiance. Outlook 2007 feels really cramped on my Netbook (as does Quicken). Judging by the specs, the HP Slate will be basically a Netbook without a keyboard. Not sure I see the point.

    I am not in the habit of putting my Netbook to sleep for long periods due to battery life concerns and my Asus has a much longer battery life than this HP Slate.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Your going to put your slate that has about 5 hours of batter life into sleep mode? Ha, let me know how that works out for you.
    Uh, yes. It works out very well, actually. I only lose about 1 percent of my battery life every 1-2 hours in sleep mode. Though I also do have the option of multiple batteries, another choice not possible on anything Apple. Of course, not sure if that'll be the case on the HP Slate.

    I will say this about Apple's batteries though; the longer durability of the battery technology they're using would be nice. One of my current tablets, a convertible, is made by Dell, and their batteries are just the worst I've ever seen, durability-wise. One full discharge-charge cycle on the Dell batteries adds 3-5% wear, so on my main battery I only get around 65% of the full lifetime. This is only 6 months after they replaced the original battery I had because it had wear of 60% (and therefore the battery only had a capacity of 40% what it originally was). I've seen similar from other Dell batteries on friends' and family's computers, though I obviously don't have stats on theirs.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    The TC1100 is about 50% thicker than the iPad and about 50% heavier. It also has the disadvantage of running Windows vs the iPhone OS. Windows and MS Office do not work well on small form factor devices in my experiance. Outlook 2007 feels really cramped on my Netbook (as does Quicken). Judging by the specs, the HP Slate will be basically a Netbook without a keyboard. Not sure I see the point.

    I am not in the habit of putting my Netbook to sleep for long periods due to battery life concerns and my Asus has a much longer battery life than this HP Slate.
    Like I said, the size thing wasn't quite intended as a direct comparison, just the point was that the form factor isn't anywhere near revolutionary. And you're pretty much saying what I said with the part about Windows vs iPhone OS. I flat out said in my post you responded to: the main advantage of the iPad is it's simplicity. That might be good for some people, but not for me; I prefer choices, as do many others.

    As for saying that the HP Slate is like a netbook without a keyboard, that's a huge oversimplification. I've said repeatedly, but the biggest advantage the HP Slate has is the pen functionality.

    In fact, before the rumored spec sheet with 'pen/digitizer support' was leaked, I had literally zero interest. A pen makes for usage models that just aren't possible with a keyboard or mouse or touch-only capacity. Windows works very well with a pen overall, and the brilliance of MS OneNote shows much more with a pen. It adds dimensions that otherwise aren't possible, and I just have zero interest in a tablet that doesn't have an active digitizer (preferably Wacom) and pen alongside the capacitive touch.

    One thing I do wish is that they were going with the hybrid design of the TC1100, but it seems they've abandoned that. One of the great design features of the older model is that it had a detachable swivel keyboard with trackpoint. You could detach it and use it purely as a slate with pen capability (and touch will obviously be very welcome on the HP Slate), or attach a thin keyboard that would swivel around and fold behind the screen to make it into a convertible tablet.

    As for the last point, like I mentioned above, I obviously can't predict what the HP Slate's battery will be like in sleep or at all, for that matter, just going by my past experience with other devices.

    Honestly though, I'm a little tired of comparing this to the iPad anyway. Quite frankly, some people are going to buy the iPad, whether they buy it solely because it's Apple, which it seems there's a pretty large group that does that still, or on the virtue of what the iPad can do for them (obviously I think those on this thread who bought one did it for the latter reason, not just because it's Apple).

    On the other hand a lot of people won't going to get it, whether it's because they either don't like it, look down upon it for being limited, or they just hate Apple.

    As unconvinced as I am about what the iPad's sales will be for the general public, it's almost certainly going to sell more than the HP Slate. (I don't even think HP expects the sort of sales the iPad will be getting.) But for those in the group want a tablet and hate Apple or think the iPad is too limited, the HP Slate is a fantastic-looking option, at this point.

    I honestly don't see them as directly competing, because despite both being small slates, internally, they couldn't be more different in both software and hardware. I mean, sure, of course there's some competition between them, but the iPad seems to be a product giving very polar opinions: people pretty much either love it or hate it... I mean Pogue even wrote two reviews to two different audiences because of this. The HP Slate doesn't seem designed to convince the people that love the iPad that it's better, but instead seems designed as a great option for the people that hate it.
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