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  1.    #1  
    can any1 explain why the iphoneOS runs alot smoother then WebOS?

    I mean my freinds iphone3gs runs just as fast if not faster then my 800mhz overclocked pre.

    Does any1 know why this is?
  2. #2  
    Years of refinement would be my guess.
  3. #3  
    cause the use the GPU in addition to the processor.
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobdude View Post
    cause the use the GPU in addition to the processor.
    But didn't webos allow the gpu to be used after like webos 1.3.5?
  5. #5  
    The Iphone UI is written directly against the OS. The UI and apps are written as source code and then "compiled" into binaries targeted toward the phone's underlying OS and hardware.

    In contrast, the Pre's UI is a JavaScript-based MVC framework that essentially runs inside a hidden browser engine. The underlying phone is of similar horsepower, but you will see some lag due to the layered software architecture and (more importantly) the fact that the UI is not compiled into a targeted binary. Instead, it is in a language that must be "interpreted" at run-time.

    While that might make it sound like the iPhone rules here, the WebOS architecture's UI layer does offer some advantages. The Javascript-based nature of WebOS breaks down many barriers to software development and, perhaps more importantly to many of us, allows us to hack and extend the core applications...since we essentially have all of their source code...so we have that going for us.
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by scuba_steve View Post
    The Iphone UI is written directly against the OS. The UI and apps are written as source code and then "compiled" into binaries targeted toward the phone's underlying OS and hardware.

    In contrast, the Pre's UI is a JavaScript-based MVC framework that essentially runs inside a hidden browser engine. The underlying phone is of similar horsepower, but you will see some lag due to the layered software architecture and (more importantly) the fact that the UI is not compiled into a targeted binary. Instead, it is in a language that must be "interpreted" at run-time.

    While that might make it sound like the iPhone rules here, the WebOS architecture's UI layer does offer some advantages. The Javascript-based nature of WebOS breaks down many barriers to software development and, perhaps more importantly to many of us, allows us to hack and extend the core applications...since we essentially have all of their source code...so we have that going for us.
    Would there be away to make WebOS's architecture just as fast? while still keeping the formentioned advantages?
  7. #7  
    We could find some benefit if Palm begins to render everything against the GPU taking some of the stress off the CPU. Additionally eventual refinement and optimization could make the interpreter faster, but still there is a point where you need bulkier hardware to deal, a factor which isn't as pronounced with compiled languages.
  8. #8  
    What if some of the core applications were converted to use the PDK more extensively ?
  9. #9  
    After learning that the Pre's GPU wasn't being used at all (I forget when) I haven't heard if anything's been changed yet. My guess (and, yes, I'm aware that none of my recent guesses have been correct) is that Palm's keeping GPU acceleration of the UI for webOS 2.0, whenever that is released. However, Wall Street's Harbingers of Doom & Gloom have attracted vultures, making that approach tricky.

    A 2.0 designation for hardware acceleration of the UI makes sense for several reasons: 1) It gives Palm time to implement it system wide and test it to death to make sure it works flawlessly. 2) It's a significant advance worthy of a version bump designation. And 3), and most importantly, it gives Palm significant cause for excessive chest thumping that their significant advance to their already very good operating system not only runs on the older hardware, but actually runs faster than before.

    In the meantime, Palm's OS Devs will do what they can to economize the code and the graphics, which is always a good thing regardless of the processor/memory situation. I've already noticed Mojo UI elements fading in in webOS 1.4 instead of sliding as they did before.
    Last edited by Colonel Kernel; 03/25/2010 at 08:11 PM. Reason: typo
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Kernel View Post
    After learning that the Pre's GPU wasn't being used at all (I forget when) I haven't heard if anything's been changed yet. My guess (and, yes, I'm aware that none of my recent guesses have been correct) is that Palm's keeping GPU acceleration of the UI for webOS 2.0, whenever that is released. However, Wall Street's Harbingers of Doom & Gloom have attracted vultures, making that approach tricky.

    A 2.0 designation for hardware acceleration of the UI makes sense for several reasons: 1) It gives Palm time to implement it system wide and test it to death to make sure it works flawlessly. 2) It's a significant advance worthy of a version bump designation. And 3), and most importantly, it gives Palm significant cause for excessive chest thumping that their significant advance to their already very good operation system not only runs on the older hardware, but actually runs faster than before.

    In the meantime, Palm's OS Devs will do what they can to economize the code and the graphics, which is always a good thing regardless of the processor/memory situation. I've already noticed Mojo UI elements fading in in webOS 1.4 instead of sliding as they did before.
    If this is done would it be able to run as flawlessly as the iphone os?
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by gselsidi View Post
    Would there be away to make WebOS's architecture just as fast? while still keeping the formentioned advantages?
    Anything that runs native code (eg 3D games/ PDK software) can be just as fast/smooth. The underlying harware is very similar.
  12. #12  
    Mine is just as fast or even faster than the Iphone!













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  13. #13  
    I'm not 100% sure about this, but I seem to remember reading in one of the earlier review of the Pre that the IPhone has faster RAM. If this is true, it would help explain why iPhone apps launch so much faster than WebOS apps. But, as it has already been mentioned, the most important reason is that iPhone uses compiled code and WebOS uses interpreted code. The speed difference between the two is tremendous.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by gselsidi View Post
    If this is done would it be able to run as flawlessly as the iphone os?
    It's possible, but I can't say for certain. Compiled code will always have the advantage because interpreted code requires an extra step. I will say this, IF the UI, as a whole, becomes GPU accelerated, then, with the expected spec bump, it will be "fast enough" to push UI sluggishness down to the bottom of the list of complaints.
  15. #15  
    how does webgl factor into all of this considering palm plans on using that technology
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    Anything that runs native code (eg 3D games/ PDK software) can be just as fast/smooth. The underlying harware is very similar.
    The other possibility would be to do some hardware accelerated rendering like they demoed in the IE9 demo
  17.    #17  
    whats the difference between compiled and interpreted code? Would there be a way to make webos compiled and still keep the benefits of the easy programming language for developers?
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by gselsidi View Post
    can any1 explain why the iphoneOS runs alot smoother then WebOS?

    I mean my freinds iphone3gs runs just as fast if not faster then my 800mhz overclocked pre.

    Does any1 know why this is?
    I'd guess overuse of javascript in the GUI presentation vs. native code. Luna seems to be mostly a javascript interpreter, and has the issues of dealing with that interpreted code. Even if you fix the transition effects themselves in luna, you're still going to have to wait for the JIT compiler to do its thing.

    palm did things this way, I'm sure, as a calculated tradeoff in the hopes that the 'average user' or web developer would be able to write apps, and that palm could then focus more on the OS itself. It's not quite turning out that way, though.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by scuba_steve View Post
    The Iphone UI is written directly against the OS. The UI and apps are written as source code and then "compiled" into binaries targeted toward the phone's underlying OS and hardware.

    In contrast, the Pre's UI is a JavaScript-based MVC framework that essentially runs inside a hidden browser engine. The underlying phone is of similar horsepower, but you will see some lag due to the layered software architecture and (more importantly) the fact that the UI is not compiled into a targeted binary. Instead, it is in a language that must be "interpreted" at run-time.

    While that might make it sound like the iPhone rules here, the WebOS architecture's UI layer does offer some advantages. The Javascript-based nature of WebOS breaks down many barriers to software development and, perhaps more importantly to many of us, allows us to hack and extend the core applications...since we essentially have all of their source code...so we have that going for us.
    nice explanation
  20. #20  
    Cause they have a bigger team to optimize it as best as possible, along with more financial horse power.
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