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  1. strudel's Avatar
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    #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Count me among that number which is one of many reasons why I don't have an iPhone. But there are other platforms that multitask, and some of them do it far more reliably. In four months, I've never had the Hero tell me I could NOT open another program regardless of how many programs I had open. The Pre told me I could open no more programs several times, all at random.
    I am curious how Android manages memory because with enough apps open, any OS is going to run out of memory. The Pre pops up "Too Many Cards" error and a jailbroken iPhone starts closing apps you have open without warning or notification to the user. Does it warn you or does it start quietly closing apps in the background?
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett92C View Post
    If the iphone can multitask as well as the Pre, then we are in trouble. Multitasking is the the one thing we do better then the iphone...
    Except for notifications, user interface, gesture area, app distribution, etc...
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    It's clear you are bised but it's still important to try to read prior posts so you can have the right context before responding.

    here's the point I made before: If (and I know it's still an 'if'), Apple releases 4.0 software that allows their 3G phone to multitask, that's a big deal since that phone only has 128MB of RAM.

    Of course having more RAM helps. But if Apple can do the same thing with less, that's at least $2-4 in savings per device which translates to millions of dollows to the bottom line. It also means that for a given amount of RAM their device has the potential to be much faster.

    Now, this does not mean their implementation of multitasking is better, etc. But it certainly means that their software is better optimized.
    im biased? you are portraying apple's "some new tricks for background application" as "good as Pre's multi-tasking, if not better."
    "do the same thing"?

    "does not mean better"
    etc etc

    i think you are making a lot of stuff up with just rumors.

    you want a real assessment about the details? how about show us you are for a real discussion, BY SHOW YOUR PATIENCE! whats hurting you to wait for technical details regarding iPhone OS 4's "few new tricks on background application"?
  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    im biased? you are portraying apple's "some new tricks for background application" as "good as Pre's multi-tasking, if not better."


    etc etc

    i think you are making a lot of stuff up with just rumors.

    you want a real assessment about the details? how about show us you are for a real discussion, BY SHOW YOUR PATIENCE! whats hurting you to wait for technical details regarding iPhone OS 4's "few new tricks on background application"?
    you've succeeded in confusing me which is not an easy thing to do. When/Where did I say Apple's implementation of background applications/notification is as good or better than Pre's? Are you mixing me up with someone else? That's the only way your last post can make sense.
  5. #145  
    clevin, let's agree to disagree on whatever it was that we were discussing. I can't follow your line of reasoning well and so I won't respond anymore.

    Thanks.
  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    you've succeeded in confusing me which is not an easy thing to do. When/Where did I say Apple's implementation of background applications/notification is as good or better than Pre's? Are you mixing me up with someone else? That's the only way your last post can make sense.
    I quoted your words in bold in my previous post.

    yeah, lets wait and see what apple actually come up with, before diving into any comparison.
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by rayln View Post
    blah blah
    Just wanna show you the same respect you did me.

    Now for a bit more. You split so many hairs, I don't know where to begin. In fact, I won't. Let's just say I think you're hopelessly biased, and further debate would be futile. I'm more than ready to discuss the flaws of WebOS or Android or any platform rationally, whether I own any of the devices or not.

    Maybe one day you can do the same.
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by strudel View Post
    I am curious how Android manages memory because with enough apps open, any OS is going to run out of memory. The Pre pops up "Too Many Cards" error and a jailbroken iPhone starts closing apps you have open without warning or notification to the user. Does it warn you or does it start quietly closing apps in the background?
    I believe it would start quietly closing them in the background. But the point is that I never have to think about it. People install task killers in Android to speed things up or to kill rogue apps that turn themselves on much like Windows stuff that hits the system tray on startup.

    But they don't HAVE TO in order to ever open up another program. That's a big part of multitasking to me. No limits. I love the concept of WebOS multitasking, but it has limits, and I had to think about leaving the Web browser open just as people have to think about restarting before or after playing Need for Speed. The worst is when it happens when you've closed everything and have no cards running. What then? It's just something else to keep track of or worry about that I don't need. I genuinely hope Palm fixes it for good soon for all devices.
  9. #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    lol, obviously the answer is it doesn't. with 256MB memory, Pre does best multitasking in any mobile platform, easily open 5-15 apps depends on usage, thats very good already. Think about multitasking on android, BB, WM, iPhone for a second.
    As an Android user, I don't think about it. That's the thing.

    Pre does 5-15 apps simultaneously...sometimes. Sometimes, it can't do 1 app open. That's not the best multitasking. That's not good multitasking. In fact, that's not even multitasking at all.
  10. #150  
    you keep forgetting that we have flash. Not adobe, but on the camera
  11. rayln's Avatar
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    #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Just wanna show you the same respect you did me.

    Now for a bit more. You split so many hairs, I don't know where to begin. In fact, I won't. Let's just say I think you're hopelessly biased, and further debate would be futile. I'm more than ready to discuss the flaws of WebOS or Android or any platform rationally, whether I own any of the devices or not.

    Maybe one day you can do the same.
    oh brother please.
    you can look through any of my old posts.
    I know when to admit webOS's shortcomings.
    (build quality, screen issues, keyboard is rather cramped for prolonged game use etc.)

    the difference is, I also recognize its strengths.
  12. #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    As an Android user, I don't think about it. That's the thing.

    Pre does 5-15 apps simultaneously...sometimes. Sometimes, it can't do 1 app open. That's not the best multitasking. That's not good multitasking. In fact, that's not even multitasking at all.
    as an android user, you never come across something like task manager on android? what do you think thats for?

    of course you dont think about it, its hidden, in background, when people get busy, they don't even remember what and how many stuff are open! and system slow down for "no reason".

    as a Pre user, let me say it does 5-15 app MOST of the time, you can't possibly suggest that a less occur memory leak bug should be treated as norm, can you?

    Cynical too much? or jealous too much?
    Last edited by clevin; 01/20/2010 at 07:51 PM.
  13. #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by rayln View Post
    oh brother please.
    you can look through any of my old posts.
    I know when to admit webOS's shortcomings.
    (build quality, screen issues, keyboard is rather cramped for prolonged game use etc.)

    the difference is, I also recognize its strengths.
    I would tell you to look through my posts as well to get some semblance of a reality check, but I'd honestly rather not discuss anything in this thread with you. At all. Let's agree to disagree civilly and stop there.
  14. #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    As an Android user, I don't think about it. That's the thing.

    Pre does 5-15 apps simultaneously...sometimes. Sometimes, it can't do 1 app open. That's not the best multitasking. That's not good multitasking. In fact, that's not even multitasking at all.

    I dont think its fair to state it does it sometimes, as alot of peoples experiences Ive read dont mention being limited, but there are the scattered threads of the 'Too Many Cards' exception(which Ive yet to encounter). It seems solely based on leaving a native app open or just leaving the phone on over an extended period without a reboot, as Ive read(and Im sure Ive missed posts that state otherwise) no one encounters that problem on a freshly rebooted phone(battery pulled, or power button reset).

    The Pre is perfect multitasking Id say(on a fresh phone). The Pre does have noticeable problems with memory leaks here and there, even with clean(non modded) phones, which is completely unsatisfactory. In a given timeframe though, Id assume that Palm would find these leaks and fix them, therefore subduing any leaks in the CLEAN webOS version and all official apps(Preware patches/apps would be a different story Id assume since they dont go through Palm), making for a perfect multi tasking experience without worries of 'Am I going to get yelled at for trying to open another card?"

    Also, Im not 100% sure how the garbage collection process works on webOS, but possibly that would be a factor, either not doing it on quicker interval, or its based on parameters dealing with cards open/closed(For this though IF one had preware installed, there is Jstop).
  15. #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    as an android user, you never come across something like task manager on android? what do you think thats for?

    of course you dont think about it, its hidden, in background, when people get busy, they don't even remember what and how many stuff are open! and system slow down for "no reason".
    System slowdowns "for no reason" are common to both platforms.

    May I direct you to Dieter's own homebrewed and patched Pre?

    Skip to 5:52 or so. Lag city with five apps open. FIVE.

    The Hero, with a slower processor and running an OS on TOP of Android, has never lagged that continuously and that badly with twice the amount of apps/widgets running. Well, in my experience anyway.

    as a Pre user, let me say it does 5-15 app MOST of the time, you can't possibly suggest that a less occur memory leak bug should be treated as norm, can you?

    Cynical too much? or jealous too much?
    Why would I be jealous? I paid for the Pre and left it to buy another device. If I "wanted back in", there are a number of Craigslist people who are willing to trade a Pre for a Hero.

    My point is...it shouldn't happen. At all. A gun should always fire a bullet when you pull the trigger. A car should always start when you turn the key. And a multitasking OS should always be able to multitask. Or single task, for that matter.
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by feyded1020 View Post
    I dont think its fair to state it does it sometimes, as alot of peoples experiences Ive read dont mention being limited, but there are the scattered threads of the 'Too Many Cards' exception(which Ive yet to encounter). It seems solely based on leaving a native app open or just leaving the phone on over an extended period without a reboot, as Ive read(and Im sure Ive missed posts that state otherwise) no one encounters that problem on a freshly rebooted phone(battery pulled, or power button reset).
    What OS, mobile or desktop, doesn't run better after a reset? Is that really any sort of significant metric?

    The Pre is perfect multitasking Id say(on a fresh phone). The Pre does have noticeable problems with memory leaks here and there, even with clean(non modded) phones, which is completely unsatisfactory. In a given timeframe though, Id assume that Palm would find these leaks and fix them, therefore subduing any leaks in the CLEAN webOS version and all official apps(Preware patches/apps would be a different story Id assume since they dont go through Palm), making for a perfect multi tasking experience without worries of 'Am I going to get yelled at for trying to open another card?"
    What would that timeframe be, and why would it take so many updates to perfect the signature element of the OS? You have to remember that the Sprint Hero I'm using has really only received ONE system-level update (to Android 1.5), and as far as I can tell, that was never an issue with Android to begin with.

    They are both Linux-based OSes. Why is one so randomly restrictive and the other not? That question isn't a slam on Palm, BTW. I'm genuinely curious and would love a detailed answer from someone far more tech savvy than me.
  17. #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    What OS, mobile or desktop, doesn't run better after a reset? Is that really any sort of significant metric?



    What would that timeframe be, and why would it take so many updates to perfect the signature element of the OS? You have to remember that the Sprint Hero I'm using has really only received ONE system-level update (to Android 1.5), and as far as I can tell, that was never an issue with Android to begin with.

    They are both Linux-based OSes. Why is one so randomly restrictive and the other not? That question isn't a slam on Palm, BTW. I'm genuinely curious and would love a detailed answer from someone far more tech savvy than me.
    I agree that most ANY system after a clean reset provides faster performance, I was trying(realized my post was kind of all over the place)to point out that after that restart(Ive yet to restart my phone for a bit, seems to be running the same way since I bought it day one)the phone is smooth, which is ridiculous that the phone cant STAY that way without a program or restart.

    THe timeframe I think in my book coming to an end to have all these things fixed(which technically should of never been a problem day one, but we dont live in a perfect world do we).

    I think Android is an AMAZING OS, but it also has its weaknesses, and I love fact that its so very open sourced(also I believe personally that Google has better programmers under their company than say our smaller Palm does). The only feasible explanation I can think of with Android 1.5 and each revision being so stable is, the beta of it internally is passed through more people to find these problems webOS seems to be suffering from, so Android's memory leaks and such are fixed before retail.

    Or perhaps, pure web based languages built on a linux foundation is not the way to produce an efficient mobile OS.. wish I knew also.. I dont think anyone but a Palm programmer or an Android/Google programmer thats dealt with it can really give us an accurate answer(Or even a programmer thats dealt with Linux extensively).
  18. #158  
    An iPhone with multitasking is like an old clucky car with a spoiler. It just isn't ment to be. Multitasking on the iPhone is an Addon. WebOS has built in multitasking that is connected to the core of the OS. iPhone is still just a shiny on clucky car with a spoiler, while the Pre is a Corvette with a spoiler. WebOS is just ment to have a spoiler while multitasking on an iPhone will look awkward and just isn't made to be on it.
    It's just that simple. It just isn't ment to be.
    "Life is Hard... it's harder if your stupid"
    - John Wayne
  19. rashad1's Avatar
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    #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennat View Post
    An iPhone with multitasking is like an old clucky car with a spoiler. It just isn't ment to be. Multitasking on the iPhone is an Addon. WebOS has built in multitasking that is connected to the core of the OS. iPhone is still just a shiny on clucky car with a spoiler, while the Pre is a Corvette with a spoiler. WebOS is just ment to have a spoiler while multitasking on an iPhone will look awkward and just isn't made to be on it.
    It's just that simple. It just isn't ment to be.
    So more people want to buy old clunky cars with spoilers than Corvettes with spoilers? Terrible analogy, try again.
  20. #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    What would that timeframe be, and why would it take so many updates to perfect the signature element of the OS? You have to remember that the Sprint Hero I'm using has really only received ONE system-level update (to Android 1.5), and as far as I can tell, that was never an issue with Android to begin with.

    They are both Linux-based OSes. Why is one so randomly restrictive and the other not? That question isn't a slam on Palm, BTW. I'm genuinely curious and would love a detailed answer from someone far more tech savvy than me.
    thanks for your care about us Pre users, now, thanks but no thanks. We LOVE update OTA. We LOVE 3D games, We LOVE great multitasking, maybe some of us occasionally have the memory leak, but we are collectively very happy!

    You dont like update of OS? maybe because its painful on Hero? Pre does OTA update, partial update package for downloading, we download a small package and install it, all on the phone, in exchange for significant improvement of the OS, of the advanced apps. Why exactly is nice updating a bad thing now? windows, osx, linux does update every other day! people are happy they are being taken care of.

    You think Hero has no problem ever? goto youtube and check for its ridiculous lag.

    Why would you insist on using a less than normal memory bug, which nobody deny the existence, to bash the whole system? Obviously not for fact.

    You like your HERO? fine, did I goto android central and mouth off on the slowness, painful update, dumb multi-tasking of Hero? no I didn't.
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