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  1. rashad1's Avatar
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    #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by digink View Post
    Your logic is extremely flawed. You have no idea what was in the works prior to 9/06, and you're making a lot of ASSumptions.

    A company can come out and say they plan on designing something, that doesn't mean they are at the prototype stages or even if they ever actually finalized the research stages of development.
    everything Apple does it kept hush hush, it doesn't take less than 3 months to devlope the iPhone. The entire OS and hardware/features were all done in less than 4 months? Yeah that makes sense
  2. chino0131's Avatar
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    #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by rashad1 View Post
    who said that, sounds like you're biased
    No one said that directly. However, your constant need on this post alone to justify the iphones superiority over everything else, and dismissing the possibility that Apple may have taken from LG shows how biased YOU are.
  3. digink's Avatar
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    #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by rashad1 View Post
    everything Apple does it kept hush hush, it doesn't take less than 3 months to devlope the iPhone. The entire OS and hardware/features were all done in less than 4 months? Yeah that makes sense
    Considering you have no idea on how or what Apple is and isn't capable of doing I'd appreciate it if you can keep your speculations to yourself. No one here is interested in what you think Apple did or didn't do. Show us some factual data or please keep it to yourself.
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by rayln View Post
    except you refuse to acknowledge that:
    (a) no jailbreaking occurs on webOS. the ability to sideload apps or modify source files is available out of the box.
    Except that nobody sideload apps or modifies source files "out of the box". I will refer you to this very forum's How-to guide for Homebrew.

    Interestingly enough, the first things to do in their steps are to reset your phone in a different mode and install some desktop software on your PC. Or, as you would call it, using the Pre "out of the box".

    (b) the iphone is certainly a more restrictive platform, jailbreaking voids your warranty.
    What? Where did you learn logic at? Though "voiding your warranty" may be a deterrent to some, it in no way makes the THE ACTUAL iPHONE OS "more restrictive" as far as what you must do in order to jailbreak your device compared to getting a Pre ready for homebrew.

    and now you're trying to spin the fact that webOS has such potential and so many options available to it into a negative characteristic.
    What options does WebOS have available again? Patches and homebrew are not any sort of official or Palm-supported part of the operating system. That's like a car salesman telling you the '89 Mustang he's trying to sell you is better than a 2010 model because it has "so many options" in aftermarket parts that you can install yourself.

    As far as WebOS options, I seem to remember most default apps barely having any menu options, and functions like Bluetooth being so sparse and unfinished that you actually had "Cut/Coy/Paste" boilerplate show up in the menu even though that doesn't apply to the app at all.

    if you're so satisfied with your hero, congratulations. you've found a phone that fits your needs and usage.
    I'm sorry you've had such a horrible individual user experience with the palm pre. too bad, so sad.
    The Hero fits my needs for now. I'll likely find something to fit them better this summer when I want to upgrade. It may or may not be an Android phone. It may or may not be a WebOS phone. I find no reason to have zealous loyalty to a software platform as so many do here.

    but the failings you've found aren't necessarily characteristic of the platform as a whole.
    I think it's safe to say that memory restrictions and build quality issues ARE characteristic of the platform as a whole.

    After all, isn't it in this forum of Pre ENTHUSIASTS that the most recent poll of exchanges found 33 percent of users having to exchange the device at least once? How many threads about "Too Many Cards" and having to restart or doctor the device due to memory issues have popped up here?

    you don't like the multi-tasking on the pre? that's unfortunate.
    you think it's badly implemented? that's also unfortunate.

    but y'know what, I and plenty others prefer having that option available even if it's not 100% yet than not at all.
    Count me among that number which is one of many reasons why I don't have an iPhone. But there are other platforms that multitask, and some of them do it far more reliably. In four months, I've never had the Hero tell me I could NOT open another program regardless of how many programs I had open. The Pre told me I could open no more programs several times, all at random.

    It seems odd that you guys don't think absolute reliability is an important aspect for any feature. I think if the phone randomly refused to power up or unlock itself or to make calls, you'd consider it buggy. Not sure why this is an exception to that metric.

    go hang around android central.
    there's really no need for you to hover around these forums if you aren't willing to discuss things rationally and provide, at minimum, constructive criticism of the platform rather then bashing it with a white-hot rage.
    LOL. Hyperbolic much?

    When did:

    The fact is I am unwilling to accept substandard efforts from any company, be it Apple or Palm. Palm couldn't get the bugginess out of multitasking (I suffered far too many random "Too Many Cards" errors in five months) nor the crappiness out of their build quality as far as I was concerned, so I picked - FOR THE MOMENT - a device and platform that could (HTC Hero on Sprint running Android and Sense UI).

    When/if Palm gets it together regarding those issues on Sprint, I'd be happy to give them another try. There isn't a single issue I have with WebOS or the Pre that cannot be fixed. They just have to get it done.
    ...become "you aren't willing to discuss things rationally and provide, at minimum, constructive criticism of the platform rather then bashing it with a white-hot rage"?

    I mean, seriously.
  5. qst4's Avatar
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    #125  
    Wow?
  6. #126  
    Errr..., anyone else feel like this thread has gotten out of hand?
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Yup. +1000000.

    WebOS has the best CONCEPT of multitasking, but the day-to-day reality has plenty of limitations and bugs that less elegant solutions (e.g. Android) do not. I fully expect Apple to only offer this feature when they can offer the same or better elegance with none of the performance issues that still plague Palm.

    Maybe the 512MB of memory on the Pre Plus will negate this. Maybe not. But there will always be a million plus (and counting) WebOS devices out there that will continue to suffer memory leaks and randomly restrict the number of apps you can have open at one time.
    Here's what is really scary: a multitasking iPhone 4.0 that works on the 3G that has only 128MB of RAM.

    That would imply their iPhone software is super optimized and that it would fly on 256 and 512MB of RAM. If Palm and Android decides to use larger RAM modules to 'fix' suboptimal software, it will surely catch up with them in the long term. And the outcome won't be good.
  8. rashad1's Avatar
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    #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by chino0131 View Post
    No one said that directly. However, your constant need on this post alone to justify the iphones superiority over everything else, and dismissing the possibility that Apple may have taken from LG shows how biased YOU are.
    I never said it was a superior product, I just claimed that it started the touchscreen smartphone revolution. Sales and popularity a lone can prove whatever else you might assume I think about the phone.
  9. chino0131's Avatar
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    #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by rashad1 View Post
    I never said it was a superior product, I just claimed that it started the touchscreen smartphone revolution. Sales and popularity a lone can prove whatever else you might assume I think about the phone.
    A claim is nothing with no evidence to back it up. You can look online and see many manufacturers and articles that claim so many others were the first touchscreen smartphone. One even claims Nokia had a touchscreen back in 2004. I dont have to assume what you think when you make a claim with no foundation other than limited research, and when others disprove your so called facts and you still stick with your claim.

    I have nothing against the iphone, its an excellent device and I still play with my old 2G on my wifi. However, I won't go on an iphone forum and make claims about the Pre with no solid evidence to back it up.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    Here's what is really scary: a SUPPOSED multitasking iPhone 4.0 /SUPPOSED that works on the 3G that has only 128MB of RAM.

    That would imply their iPhone software is super optimized and that it would fly on 256 and 512MB of RAM. If Palm and Android decides to use larger RAM modules to 'fix' suboptimal software, it will surely catch up with them in the long term. And the outcome won't be good.
    Let's wait to see what Apple thinks is multitasking...
  11. rashad1's Avatar
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    #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by chino0131 View Post
    A claim is nothing with no evidence to back it up. You can look online and see many manufacturers and articles that claim so many others were the first touchscreen smartphone. One even claims Nokia had a touchscreen back in 2004. I dont have to assume what you think when you make a claim with no foundation other than limited research, and when others disprove your so called facts and you still stick with your claim.

    I have nothing against the iphone, its an excellent device and I still play with my old 2G on my wifi. However, I won't go on an iphone forum and make claims about the Pre with no solid evidence to back it up.
    It's a fact that the iPhone started this revolution that we are seeing others mimic. Android, HTC, Palm, Samsung...etc

    Why is everyone looking for the "iPhone killer?" Why have they sold millions of phones world wide? Why is it so iconic? Why does the media follow it so much? Why is literally every phone that comes out pitted against it?

    People still ask me what kind of phone I have when I take out my Pre. I kind of hate the fact that the iPhone is the new RAZR, but it has led the current generation of phones and we all need to acknowledge that instead of hating on Apple.
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by rayln View Post
    why is it so hard for you to admit that all the bs aside, palm's webOS is simply a more open and inviting platform with less restrictions than the iphone os?
    Perhaps, but 99% of smartphone owners probably dont care. The platform with more restrictions is less inviting has tons of great apps (and has far better hardware).
  13. rayln's Avatar
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    #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    stuff.
    sorry if you assumed I meant one could simply turn on their pre and do all sorts of shenanigans right from the phone.
    (you can do much from the terminal app however.)
    I hadn't realized the distinction between "your webOS device allows you to access root and/or interact with the internals mostly as you see fit"
    and
    "doing such will void your warranty and is a service clause"
    wasn't clear.

    it's also worth noting you ignore the fact you can self-certify an app and receive a url with which to distribute sans any computer software and allow anyone to download it straight to their device.

    there are some who enjoy tinkering with their devices without having to draw the ire of the company who designed it (...and void the warranty).

    the iphone os is restrictive whether you wish to acknowledge that or not. why d'you think apple disrupts current jailbreaking methods with each update? it's not a difficult concept to grasp.

    just because you are able to a thing does not in itself make that action freely granted, capisce?

    funnily enough, you recognize homebrew as a viable option for iphone os yet not webOS because it isn't "palm-sanctioned?"

    and how can you argue iphone os is just as open as webOS?
    it's almost like you're ignoring the sdk is a free download, ares is available to use online, the pdk will soon provide widespread native functionality, the app catalog can be bypassed entirely, there are several options for app delivery (and some entirely free), root is readily accessible (please don't mention dev mode again like it's an inconvenience)...etc...

    the list goes on but you just don't want to admit it.

    and your analogy is horrid.
    it should go like this:
    a salesman tries to interest you in a specific vehicle. he then goes on to mention the simplicity and convenience of modifying it as you see fit with the wide availability of aftermarket accessories as a value-add.
    (why d'you think honda civics are so popular? besides being rather economical and offering decent performance at a generous price-point of course. value-add, learn it.)

    the bad luck you've had with replacements is an issue with the hardware, quality assurance and luck as I've stated before. it's unfortunate, but it's also not inherent to webOS itself.

    again, it's unfortunate you've had bad experiences with your personal device.
    mine hasn't given me trouble and it's heavily modified. (clocked to 600mhz for example, others have issue with doing such. I haven't. luck of the draw I suppose.)

    you're still bashing the platform irrationally, again mixing hardware with software. there was no mention of iphone and pre hardware comparison until you brought it up (your 6 or 7 pres comment, hyperbolic enough?).
    that's a different issue entirely.

    and congrats, you brought your frustration down to a barely lit blue flame, want an award?

    nice cherry-picking your most seemingly innocuous comment.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    Here's what is really scary: a multitasking iPhone 4.0 that works on the 3G that has only 128MB of RAM.
    lets dont get too much ahead of ourselves. Palm Treo 700w multitasking too, on less than 128MB RAM, is that scary?
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    lets dont get too much ahead of ourselves. Palm Treo 700w multitasking too, on less than 128MB RAM, is that scary?
    Good point. But that's exactly my point. Why does Pre Plus need 512MB of RAM to multitask effectively?
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    Good point. But that's exactly my point. Why does Pre Plus need 512MB of RAM to multitask effectively?
    lol, obviously the answer is it doesn't. with 256MB memory, Pre does best multitasking in any mobile platform, easily open 5-15 apps depends on usage, thats very good already. Think about multitasking on android, BB, WM, iPhone for a second.

    However, its obviously also, that the handset are pushing for higher configurations, Nexus One now has 512Mb RAM, I bet iPhone 4 will have that much too, Palm need to maintain competitiveness, so they have to do so too.

    Memory is cheap, put in there, even if the benefits is not significant, you never know when it gonna be needed. So called "future proof"!.

    Think back when Pre was out, why do we need a GPU if at that time we think there is no 3D game ever gonna happen? You can never predict the future development, but put higher hardware configuration will always give you potential.
  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by rashad1 View Post
    Thank you.

    iPhone rumors date back to 2004, c'mon son:

    iPhone Rumor Rebound? - Mac Rumors

    Summer 2006:

    iPhone Rumors Confirmed? My Digital Life
    It's all hearsay from the outside trying to observe in.

    edit: also, if you read my post, i did not imply the iPhone as the finished product, I was explicitly (maybe the capitalized word "THAT" wasn't obvious enough?) referring to the initial prototype shown.
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    I would still never sell my soul to apple. Even if their phone was 3ghz with a holographic projector. I would go back to winmo 6.5 first.
    preach!!!!
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by andyhurley View Post
    Not hard.

    Archos Jukebox circa 2000 (plenty of others too but that's the one I had).
    Treo 600 circa 2003 (there were other Treos before but that was the one that really worked well).

    Don't get me wrong, the Apple products are/were good but they were not groundbreaking or anything particularly new. They built on what had gone before, made it all look slick to the up and coming generation and then went for the jugular with the marketing. It worked, look where Apple is today.
    nobody really knows about Archos,only because Apple has way more money than them and higher advertising. I think they make the best mp3 players. And its strictly no crap: just drag and drop ur music on, no worry about license, file sharing restrictions, just drop ur music and go. Plus archos mp3 players played video like 3-4 years before Apple decided to copy and make their ipods do it. It amazes me that Apple has so much money but is so LATE with everything they do: ipod video late, simple cut n paste late, now they want to add multitasking but other phones have been doing it for years. It all goes to show, if you have enough money, and can pay for a Superbowl ad that says owning vase of 2 pounds of horse sh!t is the new thing, people will buy it!!!! Like the other man said, dont sell your soul to Apple!!!!
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    lol, obviously the answer is it doesn't. with 256MB memory, Pre does best multitasking in any mobile platform, easily open 5-15 apps depends on usage, thats very good already. Think about multitasking on android, BB, WM, iPhone for a second.

    However, its obviously also, that the handset are pushing for higher configurations, Nexus One now has 512Mb RAM, I bet iPhone 4 will have that much too, Palm need to maintain competitiveness, so they have to do so too.

    Memory is cheap, put in there, even if the benefits is not significant, you never know when it gonna be needed. So called "future proof"!.

    Think back when Pre was out, why do we need a GPU if at that time we think there is no 3D game ever gonna happen? You can never predict the future development, but put higher hardware configuration will always give you potential.

    It's clear you are bised but it's still important to try to read prior posts so you can have the right context before responding.

    here's the point I made before: If (and I know it's still an 'if'), Apple releases 4.0 software that allows their 3G phone to multitask, that's a big deal since that phone only has 128MB of RAM.

    Of course having more RAM helps. But if Apple can do the same thing with less, that's at least $2-4 in savings per device which translates to millions of dollows to the bottom line. It also means that for a given amount of RAM their device has the potential to be much faster.

    Now, this does not mean their implementation of multitasking is better, etc. But it certainly means that their software is better optimized.
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