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  1. o14
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rene Ritchie View Post

    2. You totally kick Apple's **** on notifications and multitasking. The multitasking visual metaphor is so good, in fact, that it's making me mad I can drag between cards. I do that a lot on the desktop, click and drag between windows. Is that something you can see Palm adding to webOS, tap and drag between cards? Or is that even needed on a mobile device yet?
    Well, nothing's ever 'needed', but it would be nice to have. I definitely see that as something that Palm would look into incorporating into WebOS in the future though, why not if it can be done!
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    “A few new ways” to run applications in the background — multitasking.
    Apple is about to invent Multitasking! Woo-hoo! :-)

    (sorry, couldn't resist!)
  3. #23  
    1. I chose the Pre because I like a physical keyboard and there are plenty of others who like this also. What the iphone proved is that a virtual keyboard can work and *some* like it best.

    2. improve cut and paste first

    3. smartphones are a growing market so there will always be innovators. rubenstein proven talent and Palm lucky to have his team. question will be how difficult to duplicate webos elegance from the starting point of other operating systems or would other companies have to innovate from scratch, similar to palm? does palm have enough money? good question-depends on how many units they sell of the current 2010 versions (the pre pluses, the ATT rumored versions, the france deal etc).

    4. yes, good job, would like to see them succeed and they can based on speed improvements and enhanced features for the verizon phone. key question now is marketing and training of the verizon sales staff who seem lackluster a week before the launch.

    5. too early to tell

    6. would miss notifications and multi tasking. i like the number of apps available for the iphone, hope developers add some more functional ones for the pre.

    4.
  4. piaband's Avatar
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    #24  
    1. The multitouch part I'm okay with. Familiar territory. But the keyboard at the bottom of both, do I *really* need it? I've gotten to love virtual keyboards so much I've arrogantly proclaimed the era of physical keyboards is over. Was Ruby right though, and Jobs wrong, would none of you prefer a webOS slab with a huge screen and no keyboard? Like an HD2 or Nexus style webOS OGRE?

    I would definitely like to try out a webOS slab w/o keyboard. We actually have a virtual keyboard patch. I've used it..Its ok, but it would need a larger screen. The only issue I have with this is the keyboard is very much instrinsically linked to universal search. Universal search on webOS is one of my favorite things. It wouldnt be the smae experience without a physical keyboard. You just start typing with the keyboard. Without it, what are you left with? Then you have to open keyboard and type what you want. It sounds strange but the simplicity of "just start typing" comes in handy when it is connects to everything on your phone. With that said, I would like a larger screen with a landscape keyboard next.


    2. You totally kick Apple's **** on notifications and multitasking. The multitasking visual metaphor is so good, in fact, that it's making me mad I can drag between cards. I do that a lot on the desktop, click and drag between windows. Is that something you can see Palm adding to webOS, tap and drag between cards? Or is that even needed on a mobile device yet?

    Hmmm, its probably one of those things that you cant see yourself using, but once its there you find a million different things to use it for. Not sure its necessary, but if someone can tell me why that makes my experience better, I'm all for adding it. Its a good thought though. Definitely out-of-the-box. Its hard to find that around here. A lot of same topics get tossed around.

    3. Arguably, with almost no money and limited resources, Palm out-innovated everyone last year. I'll say straight out they clowned Google, who I'm sure wishes they thought of webOS first, and couldn't improve Android as fast as Palm launched an entirely new OS. How did they do this? Rubinstein's vision? California magic? And if it forces other companies to innovate just as fast, given that limited money and resources, how can Palm keep up with the Apple and Google types?

    Patents. Haha. Hopefully, Palm patented the important stuff. Otherwise, its a matter of months before someone else comes out with webOS but is calling it android or (whatever iphones OS is called). I'm not entirely sure either can fully replicate what webOS has offered though. If it is something they have to re-code the entire OS for, they wont be doing that. Apple has locked itself into a box with all the apps. My thinking is that they cant stray too far from their original OS because all the apps need to run on all the versions of iphone. Just look at the last 3 iphones. They look alost identical. Time will tell. As far as Palm, I'm not sure they can stay ahead, unless it is in openness. They have the most open OS, with the best "hombrew" community around in my opinion. Alot of things we can do, my iphone friends would have to jailbreak to do. It seems like jailbreaking is becoming a real hassle lately with bootrom. As long as they let us do what we want on our Palm devices, they will always have that over Apple. Google seems to be sinking its own ship.

    4. What do you think about the Palm Pre Plus and Palm Pixi Plus? From last year to this, Apple went from the iPhone 3G/2.0 to iPhone 3GS/3.0, Android went from the G1/1.0 to the DROID/2.0. On the other hand, Microsoft went from Windows Mobile 6 to 6.5 and BlackBerry from the 9000 to 9700. How much of an improvement has Palm made over the last year, and blending into the previous question, is it enough for you? What are you happy they added, what are you sad they didn't?

    If they actually add video and flash in February, I am happy with the improvements they've made. I've been complaining about lack of video from day one. Finally, its here. But there are other noticable improvements. Tons of small usability improvements. From dropdown menu selection, to quickness of UI, you can tell a big change from launch day. I use to get "too many cards" error quite frequently (3 times per week). they happen rarely now (once per month...if that). I feel like they are working hard. Their next-gen device is what will make or break it for me. (I dont consider the Pixi the 2nd generation device even though I love it). It will need to be bigger screen, better constructed, and offere something new that they Pre doesnt have. If they can do those 3 things, I can definitely say I am on board for another year.

    5. What's next for Palm? They're getting on more carriers, so what else do they need 2010 to bring? Do they need webOS 2.0? Another device form-factor? Some huge app announcements? A content deal? Their own local sync software? What pieces do they simply have to add this year not just to survive, but to be one of the big players heading into 2011?

    I hope they have device 2.0. Sprint allows me to upgrade yearly and I want a new device. I would really like sync software but I think they are leaving that up to someone else, just like Ruby said they did with music. Simply put, they need more apps. They've tried very hard to facilitate app development for webOS, and we'll have to see if it pays off.

    6. If you could steal one feature of the iPhone and give it to webOS, what would it be? By contrast, what single feature does webOS have you'd miss most if you had to switch to an iPhone (like for the Round Robin). There's pros and cons to every device, so I'm trying to get the best sense of trade-offs I can.

    The only thing I want from iphone is apps. If not apps, user base. It seems like every time I turn around there is another app or accessory being touted for iphone users. Everything is made for the iphone. I wish they did that for webOS, but I understand why they dont.

    EDIT:::I read someones elses post. I also want the smoothness of the iphone. I can notice it the second I pick up the iphone.

    obviously, multitasking. but I am going to say universal search. its amazing and its one of my single favorite features.
    Last edited by piaband; 01/20/2010 at 09:54 AM.
  5. #25  
    I'm at the mercy of the carrier. I'm with Verizon. So my best choice is Palm...I'm anxiously waiting. If the iPhone were to ever come to Verizon, I'd have a tough decision to make.
  6. #26  
    1. I've used the Iphone keyboard a few times. I was pretty fast with it, but there really is no substitute for a real keyboard, IMO. It just doesn't feel right. And the slab form factor, though nice to look at, doesn't do it for me. If they could make the pre screen and keyboard a little bit bigger and the hardware a little tighter, I'd be in form factor heaven.

    2. I can see where this would be useful, but a better implementation of cut and paste would likely be more useful with a handheld device.

    3. One thing Palm has going for it is its small size. While it would be great to have (seemingly) unlimited resources ala Apple, Google, and MS, Palm's small size makes them more agile. I think that's partially how they've been able to constantly update the OS. Additionally, being last to the party, they were able to take a little of what they liked from previous OSes and put their spin on it. As for keeping up the innovation, they have to keep up the same attitude that's got them this far. They can't be satisfied with where they are. As you can probably tell from P|C, WebOS users are pretty impatient and not easily satisfied. Palm needs to have the same attitude. They can't try to match Apple or Google, they have to be better.

    4. I like what Palm did with the Pluses. It shows that they're not resting on their laurels. The updated phones, though only incrementally better than the predecessors shows (again) that Palm is agile and is pushing the platform forward.

    5. I don't think they need another form factor, but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt. What they need is to keep polishing the OS and improving the hardware. Make the Pre a little bigger, upgrade the processor and the ram. Have a nicer screen. Make people say, wow, that phone (not just the OS) is incredible.

    6. The Iphone is a great phone, but there's not too much, feature-wise I would take from it. I'd like the speed of it, of course. The screen is nice. There are some pretty awesome apps, but those come from the developers and their ability to make money because of the Iphone's popularity. As for what I would miss from the Pre, I'd miss the ease of multitasking, the notifications, the keyboard. Mostly the multi-tasking. I've used friends' Iphones and have helped them troubleshoot problems they've had, and, honestly, the OS, while fast, really does feel old and inefficient. Open. Close. Open. Close.
  7. #27  
    1. The multitouch part I'm okay with. Familiar territory. But the keyboard at the bottom of both, do I *really* need it? I've gotten to love virtual keyboards so much I've arrogantly proclaimed the era of physical keyboards is over. Was Ruby right though, and Jobs wrong, would none of you prefer a webOS slab with a huge screen and no keyboard? Like an HD2 or Nexus style webOS OGRE?
    I prefer the physical keyboard, but the iPhone's is certainly the best virtual one. The iPhone's keyboard even beats out some Android physical keyboards, but it's just not fast enough or accurate enough for me. If I have to depend on auto-correct, I'd rather use BB SurePress on the smaller form factor Pearl than a full-size phone? You lose the benefit of full QWERTY if you're not at liberty to spell "non-dictionary" words quickly.

    2. You totally kick Apple's **** on notifications and multitasking. The multitasking visual metaphor is so good, in fact, that it's making me mad I can drag between cards. I do that a lot on the desktop, click and drag between windows. Is that something you can see Palm adding to webOS, tap and drag between cards? Or is that even needed on a mobile device yet?
    I don't know what drag and drop you're talking about, but I'm guessing Palm or its homebrew community will think of it first.

    3. Arguably, with almost no money and limited resources, Palm out-innovated everyone last year. I'll say straight out they clowned Google, who I'm sure wishes they thought of webOS first, and couldn't improve Android as fast as Palm launched an entirely new OS. How did they do this? Rubinstein's vision? California magic? And if it forces other companies to innovate just as fast, given that limited money and resources, how can Palm keep up with the Apple and Google types?
    I think their limited resources/units actually benefit Palm and help them keep up with the demands of an ever-changing collection of societal needs. Innovative ideas from programmers make their way up to the top much quicker when there's only one or two people between you and the top.

    4. What do you think about the Palm Pre Plus and Palm Pixi Plus? From last year to this, Apple went from the iPhone 3G/2.0 to iPhone 3GS/3.0, Android went from the G1/1.0 to the DROID/2.0. On the other hand, Microsoft went from Windows Mobile 6 to 6.5 and BlackBerry from the 9000 to 9700. How much of an improvement has Palm made over the last year, and blending into the previous question, is it enough for you? What are you happy they added, what are you sad they didn't?
    Pre Plus and Pixi Plus are good interim devices, but they're certainly not even evolutions (they're merely the difference between BB8330 on Sprint vs. BB8310 on AT&T, for example). I'm betting they have a third form factor they're going to reveal in the next 6 months. I'm hoping they don't keep cannibalizing their own form factor every year like Apple is doing and making you regret your last purchase. If it were up to me, I'd keep up four basic form factors that refreshed every 2 years so everyone can be happy.

    5. What's next for Palm? They're getting on more carriers, so what else do they need 2010 to bring? Do they need webOS 2.0? Another device form-factor? Some huge app announcements? A content deal? Their own local sync software? What pieces do they simply have to add this year not just to survive, but to be one of the big players heading into 2011?
    Local media sync would be awesome, but not crucial. What will differentiate them will be a new form factor (slate might too directly compete with the iPhone) and webOS 2.0 (depending on how good it is).

    6. If you could steal one feature of the iPhone and give it to webOS, what would it be? By contrast, what single feature does webOS have you'd miss most if you had to switch to an iPhone (like for the Round Robin). There's pros and cons to every device, so I'm trying to get the best sense of trade-offs I can.
    Best features of the iPhone are probably its keyboard, its speed, and its integration with iTunes. Best features of webOS are multi-tasking, notifications, TouchStone, Synergy, everything.
  8. #28  
    1. I own a pre and a nexus one and honestly I hate the virtual keyboard on the nexus. One handed phone and complete function is a reality on the pre. Nexus one, not so much
    2. advanced copy paste would be enough for now. I really envy the iphone copy/paste.
    3. PDA
    4. No i not happy with the pace things are going. I am still waiting on new hardware with bigger screen faster processor....but I understand.
    5.
    6. copy paste, I can not live without multitasking and notifications
  9. jeffbengr's Avatar
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rene Ritchie View Post
    1. The multitouch part I'm okay with. Familiar territory. But the keyboard at the bottom of both, do I *really* need it? I've gotten to love virtual keyboards so much I've arrogantly proclaimed the era of physical keyboards is over. Was Ruby right though, and Jobs wrong, would none of you prefer a webOS slab with a huge screen and no keyboard? Like an HD2 or Nexus style webOS OGRE?
    My only virtual keyboard experience is the Homebrew Pre keyboard. I just flat-out can't get used to it and/or make too many mistakes. So count me as one who will always prefer a physical keyboard. That being said, what I'd really like to see is a physically larger version of the Pre (iPhone size screen with vertical slider keyboard.

    2. You totally kick Apple's **** on notifications and multitasking. The multitasking visual metaphor is so good, in fact, that it's making me mad I can drag between cards. I do that a lot on the desktop, click and drag between windows. Is that something you can see Palm adding to webOS, tap and drag between cards? Or is that even needed on a mobile device yet?
    Don't see the need for drag & drop between cards (or an easy way to implement) but the cut/copy & paste needs to be continued to improve.

    3. Arguably, with almost no money and limited resources, Palm out-innovated everyone last year. I'll say straight out they clowned Google, who I'm sure wishes they thought of webOS first, and couldn't improve Android as fast as Palm launched an entirely new OS. How did they do this? Rubinstein's vision? California magic? And if it forces other companies to innovate just as fast, given that limited money and resources, how can Palm keep up with the Apple and Google types?
    Sometimes desperate people/companies can do great things under pressure. This was sink or swim for Palm, and they sure came up swimming hard.

    4. What do you think about the Palm Pre Plus and Palm Pixi Plus? From last year to this, Apple went from the iPhone 3G/2.0 to iPhone 3GS/3.0, Android went from the G1/1.0 to the DROID/2.0. On the other hand, Microsoft went from Windows Mobile 6 to 6.5 and BlackBerry from the 9000 to 9700. How much of an improvement has Palm made over the last year, and blending into the previous question, is it enough for you? What are you happy they added, what are you sad they didn't?
    The "Plus" phones really aren't a step-forward from what I can tell (except the Pixi's addition of Wi-Fi which I still can't believe was left off the original). Extra memory? Eh. Give me an SD slot and that'll be real progress. The real changes have been in the operating system. 1.0.1 to 1.3.1.1 has been a dramatic change, all on the same hardware. The Homebrew scene (especially patches) actually yields a phone that I can properly customize, and finally recommend (I'm a day 1 adopter and it took about 4 months before I reached the point I would recommend this phone). The previews of 1.4 look like the next step to being truly big-league, and will seem to add most of what I'm sad they haven't added (video recording, using the GPU, etc). Now if they'd just fix the darn battery-life issues once and for all...

    5. What's next for Palm? They're getting on more carriers, so what else do they need 2010 to bring? Do they need webOS 2.0? Another device form-factor? Some huge app announcements? A content deal? Their own local sync software? What pieces do they simply have to add this year not just to survive, but to be one of the big players heading into 2011?
    I think that by the end of next year, they need to be up to webOS 2.0 or better, and have new form factors in the pipeline, you know, so that they'll be ready in time for those of us day 1 adopters whose 2-year commitment will be coming up for renewal. Other musts: Editable Docs-to-Go, pdf viewer that actually opens all (legitimate) pdf's, and a complete local backup solution (included, not 3rd party) in addition to the cloud backup.

    6. If you could steal one feature of the iPhone and give it to webOS, what would it be? By contrast, what single feature does webOS have you'd miss most if you had to switch to an iPhone (like for the Round Robin). There's pros and cons to every device, so I'm trying to get the best sense of trade-offs I can.
    Honestly not very familiar with the iPhone, but I'd have to think the media handling (music player, video recording/editing, etc could be much improved). Also what would be awesome is a translator that can take virtually any iPhone app and run it on webOS, since I'm sure there are a few useful apps on iPhone with no webOS equivalent (the "listen to a song and tell you what it is" apps come to mind as an example). I'd definitely miss the multi-tasking and notifications system.
    Last edited by jeffbengr; 01/22/2010 at 04:45 PM.
  10. #30  
    1. Was Ruby right though, and Jobs wrong, would none of you prefer a webOS slab with a huge screen and no keyboard?

    >Absolutely! I for one think that as people move more and more towards mobile devices, and do more on these devices, it would be more convenient to have a phiscal keyboard which they would use heavily...rather than the virual keyboard (on samll devices I mean) which can be frustrating

    3. Arguably, with almost no money and limited resources, Palm out-innovated everyone last year.

    >This is something I learned from your post! Good info! I did know that Palm has limited resources, but that they out-innovated the giants is great to hear!


    4. How much of an improvement has Palm made over the last year, and blending into the previous question, is it enough for you? What are you happy they added, what are you sad they didn't?

    >Well they didnt make major improvements, tho they have been improving through the over the air updates. But at CES they took it to a new level! Video recording, flash, gaming all promised, in Feb with the new OS update

    5. What's next for Palm? They're getting on more carriers, so what else do they need 2010 to bring? Do they need webOS 2.0? Another device form-factor? Some huge app announcements? A content deal? Their own local sync software? What pieces do they simply have to add this year not just to survive, but to be one of the big players heading into 2011?

    >They need snazzier ads to increase mindshare and make people feel its cool to own a Pre, and as soon as people start using the WebOS they will realize its the best OS out there!
    >Also, need a new form factor with larger screen to make browsing daily a comfortable experience and convince people that they can do everything on the web thro their phone
    >Improve apps available
    >Improve speed of OS a bit


    6. If you could steal one feature of the iPhone and give it to webOS, what would it be? By contrast, what single feature does webOS have you'd miss most if you had to switch to an iPhone (like for the Round Robin). There's pros and cons to every device, so I'm trying to get the best sense of trade-offs I can.

    >totally happy with OS!
    >If I move to the iPhone, I would die without having webOS's most beautiful and intuitive interface
  11. #31  
    1. The multitouch part I'm okay with. Familiar territory. But the keyboard at the bottom of both, do I *really* need it? I've gotten to love virtual keyboards so much I've arrogantly proclaimed the era of physical keyboards is over. Was Ruby right though, and Jobs wrong, would none of you prefer a webOS slab with a huge screen and no keyboard? Like an HD2 or Nexus style webOS OGRE?

    My previous mobile device was an Asus A636N, a WM PDA. It had no physical keyboard and all the virtual ones were soooo slow and unreliable that its use was a real nightmare. Of course, we're dealing with different touchscreens: resistive vs. capacitive, but in the end I felt relieved not to have to rely on a virtual keyboard. I suppose it's also a matter of implementation. I have never used an iphone (yes, like Ruby) so I cannot comment on that one but I guess it's much smoother than WM .

    2. You totally kick Apple's **** on notifications and multitasking. The multitasking visual metaphor is so good, in fact, that it's making me mad I can drag between cards. I do that a lot on the desktop, click and drag between windows. Is that something you can see Palm adding to webOS, tap and drag between cards? Or is that even needed on a mobile device yet?

    It's not a bad idea, but is it worth the work to implement it? How many webOS users are going to drag and drop often? Maybe a novel method to move content from one card to another could do the job more efficiently. I mean, it's mobile devices we're talking about, don't try to do everything as you do on the desktop.

    3. Arguably, with almost no money and limited resources, Palm out-innovated everyone last year. I'll say straight out they clowned Google, who I'm sure wishes they thought of webOS first, and couldn't improve Android as fast as Palm launched an entirely new OS. How did they do this? Rubinstein's vision? California magic? And if it forces other companies to innovate just as fast, given that limited money and resources, how can Palm keep up with the Apple and Google types?

    Palm has dedicated a lot of resources to these new devices and to webOS, in their lowest hour. When they were reporting so many losses that most people saw them buried already, they invested a lot of money into R&D and I guess that's what ultimately saved them. They put some experienced engineer (Rubinstein) on charge, got a bunch of capable workers and kept on trying. They didn't innovate that much on the hardware part, but the overall result is quite good. Especially, coming from a company that was almost dead. The glitches found at the beginning (hardware failure/ a half-baked OS) can be attributed to the urgency Palm needed to have an innovative product in the market that gave them some breath. Also, it seems that the hardware defects have diminished in new batches of the pre and the software is getting better with each update.

    How can now Palm keep up with the Goliaths of the industry? I guess they should invest a little more on marketing this time, and of course keep on improving webOS. In the short term, the hardware is not that important... given that almost everyone is building the same kind of devices nowadays: touchscreen, camera, phone, accelerometer,3g, wifi, bluetooth... All that is common knowledge nowadays (the engineering is already done, for the most part) and can be replicated, and the main problem consists in choosing a nice case to fit the electronics in. Of course, if in the mid-long term, palm is able to come up with something really innovative from the hardware point of view (let's say a method for brainwave input) and they patent it, that would ensure their survival.


    4. What do you think about the Palm Pre Plus and Palm Pixi Plus? From last year to this, Apple went from the iPhone 3G/2.0 to iPhone 3GS/3.0, Android went from the G1/1.0 to the DROID/2.0. On the other hand, Microsoft went from Windows Mobile 6 to 6.5 and BlackBerry from the 9000 to 9700. How much of an improvement has Palm made over the last year, and blending into the previous question, is it enough for you? What are you happy they added, what are you sad they didn't?

    Well, Palm presented the pre in January last year, but it arrived to the USA in June and even later to Europe. After barely 6 months, they are already presenting the new versions of those two devices... And the first big update to their SO (v1.4). I think the rhythm is pretty good, given the size of the company devoted to these devices.

    And in general, I'm very happy with the fact that releasing new devices didn't imply forgetting about the older ones (ASUS, do you get this?). So far, the new stuff that will be released for the pre plus, should work for the original pre. Maybe it will have more difficulty in handling the most demanding games, but I'm not that into gaming, so I can pass.


    5. What's next for Palm? They're getting on more carriers, so what else do they need 2010 to bring? Do they need webOS 2.0? Another device form-factor? Some huge app announcements? A content deal? Their own local sync software? What pieces do they simply have to add this year not just to survive, but to be one of the big players heading into 2011?

    First, they need more apps. They have to release all their development kits at once and for all and get the developers moving. About summer, new devices should come up. Personally, I would like to see webOS integrated in device with a bigger screen, such as a media-player oriented smartphone (like the iphone) or a tablet pc (foleo reborn, anyone?). Additionally, as I pointed out before, a fresh marketing campaign might help too, but let's face the facts, the iphone has a 2-year advantage in front of webOS devices, and it has become a fashion item of sorts, an icon, which is a big handicap to overcome. On this state of things, even the most aggressive campaign cannot assure you to get your niche in the market and Palm funds are limited.

    6. If you could steal one feature of the iPhone and give it to webOS, what would it be? By contrast, what single feature does webOS have you'd miss most if you had to switch to an iPhone (like for the Round Robin). There's pros and cons to every device, so I'm trying to get the best sense of trade-offs I can.

    For webOS: I would like to see it as fast and responsive like the iphone. It's closer with each update, but not there yet.

    For the iphone: As I said before, I haven't ever used an iphone, but, dude, you don't have notifications? That would probably be the first thing I missed. Then, multitasking. If, as said in a previous post, all that's coming to iphone4.0, then the gesture area.
  12. tenzero's Avatar
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    #32  
    1. I find that my typing technique involves alot of thumb-rolling and sliding from key to key, so lifting my finger to go to the next letter (or even the same letter) is annoying. I could get used to it, but I doubt I'd ever be able to use a virtual kb without looking. This technique also explains why I prefer the tighter spacing of portrait vs landscape kb's, which require more travel between keys.

    2. Maybe, after the cut & paste function is completed.

    3. I don't know how they did it -- i guess equal parts inspiration and desperation. The fact that Palm is leaving it open for the Linux community is a big plus in my book.

    4. Glad for the few improvements that were made, but I wish they would have matched more hardware features from the competition. Will this be the only new smartphone without an auto-focus camera? C'mon Palm. I don't really need a compass, but that may be important to some people. Don't allow hardware limitations to hold back webOS's progress!

    5. Advertising push by the new carriers.

    6. I want voice-dialing and voice memos. I would miss the smaller form factor, physical keyboard, notifications, multitasking, Synergy.
  13. #33  
    Ler me just say that I love my Pre, but I love iPhones also. They are both great devices. The one thing that I couldn't do without if I switched to Apple is multitasking. Being able to quickly and elegantly move between apps is a game changer to me. WebOS is such a refined system for a 1.0 it's amazing. I love the whole look, feel & functionality. The other thing I love is carrier specific, so not a true measure of the devices. I love Sprint's plans & pricing.

    That said, I love how fluid & fast the iPhone is. I also love Apple's app selection & quality.

    I think Palm will eventually get there, but is still playing catch up in those regards. & Apple will keep innovating too!

    In the mean time, let's both enjoy our wonderful devices and reap the benefits of the smartphone revolution these days!
    Last edited by lostsole1970; 01/20/2010 at 05:48 PM.
  14. #34  
    1. The Pre's got a virtual keyboard (patch). But I'm a touch-typer even with phones so I want a real keyboard with distinctive keys. I'd expect their next models to include a horizontal slider with a bigger keyboard or possibly a slab-style.

    2. If you mean graphical copy/paste, I don't think there's enough screen real estate to show all cards and the finger-contortion to touch-drag while scrolling between cards makes my hands cramp just thinking about it.

    3. Palm used existing tech, Google and Apple rolled their own, so Palm could focus on the UI metaphor and usability. Android has their own UI tool kit, WebOS uses HTML/javascript/CSS. Android came up with their own java variant for binaries, Palm's PDK uses the SDL libraries.

    4. The Pre was released June '09, Pixi came out around November '09. Really, you expect a major hardware revision on hardware that's less than a year old?

    Software wise, WebOS 1.0 was adequate but 1.4 brings the OS up to top of the line. I've been getting new features monthly from Palm. Can any of the others say that?


    5. I'm going to quote Balmer "Developers, developers, developers." Now that 1.4 update fixes all the outstanding "checkbox" features WebOS needs, they need to promote their platform to developers and work on the dev tools.

    I wouldn't complain if they did some OS optimizations that improves memory management and UI performance.


    6. Never really used an iPhone. Honestly, the Mac UI assumptions just never "fit" me that well. Plus I detest the "walled garden" and avoid those platforms wherever possible. I'm familiar enough about the iPhone to know whether the lack of a keyboard, decent notifications, card metaphor, or configuration would drive me nuts more.

    I would like the Reality Distortion Field available to promote WebOS.
  15. #35  
    I'm still partial to a real keyboard. I've tried the virtual ones on the iphone and android, but always seem to have more errors. Maybe it gets better with extended use...
  16. #36  
    1. webOS slab would be amazing!

    2. That would be too complex and cumbersome on a phone. Cards for switching windows is good enough.

    3. Sunnyvale is magic. That's all I have to say.

    4. Why didn't they do this the first time? It's the same shape but with different chips and a better keyboard. They should have known the keyboard was terrible. Extra RAM shouldn't be a big deal. It took them a year to put out a cripple phone (Pixi) and add more RAM to the same phone.

    5. More developers.

    6. Lack of keyboard.
  17.    #37  
    Okay, so I just spent an hour or so pouring over Dieter's massive Palm Pre Plus and Palm Pixi Plus reviews, and I'm wondering how much this changes Palm's position *right now* in terms of the competitive landscape? I kind of thought webOS 1.4 was coming with those two devices, and while February isn't a long time from now by any means, is 1.4 enough to hedge against Android 2.1 and iPhone 4.0? Does Palm need to get to 2.0 by the one year anniversary in June? And what does webOS 2.0 need to do?

    I know, quasi-repetitive questions there, Dieter's review is just bringing them sharper and more prominently to mind...
    Last edited by Rene Ritchie; 01/21/2010 at 10:41 AM.
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  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rene Ritchie View Post
    Okay, so I just spent an hour or so pouring over Dieter's massive Palm Pre Plus and Palm Pixi Plus reviews, and I'm wondering how much this changes Palm's position *right now* in terms of the competitive landscape? I kind of though webOS 1.4 was coming with those two devices, and while February isn't a long time from now by any means, is 1.4 enough to hedge against Android 2.1 and iPhone 2.0? Does Palm need to get to 2.0 by the one year anniversary in June? And what does webOS 2.0 need to do?

    I know, quasi-repetitive questions there, Dieter's review is just bringing them sharper and more prominently to mind...
    I'd say no. But i think of the Plus versions and 1.4 as mid year upgrades. Not a full cycle upgrade like iphone 4.0 will be. Palm came to market with the Pre in June 2009. To be fair, let's see what they have in the summer.

    These plus versions and 1.4 are enough to compete with 2009 offerings (iphone 3GS for example). We don't know enough about iphone 4.0 software or when it will hit. And as mentioned before, android 2.1 still feels like a 1.x update.

    That said, will Verizon market these heavily? Because Palm really has no clue in that department. A hardware refresh invites reviews and Palm missed the boat by not having 1.4 out sooner. Some reviews mention 1.4 upcoming, others don't but either way, this big update misses being reviewed.

    I think 2.0 will center on beefing up the OS and sluggish core functions like email & calendar, music player, you name it. Maybe utilizing that pdk a bit for all those. Throw in some voice and a new form factor and that would contend with the 2010 offerings.
  19. #39  
    I'm wondering how much this changes Palm's position *right now* in terms of the competitive landscape? I kind of though webOS 1.4 was coming with those two devices, and while February isn't a long time from now by any means, is 1.4 enough to hedge against Android 2.1 and iPhone 2.0? Does Palm need to get to 2.0 by the one year anniversary in June? And what does webOS 2.0 need to do?

    Well, in my opinion a full version change from 1.x to 2.x represents a major change in the OS, which requires rewriting of a lot of code. With the gradual updates palm has been providing us adding functionality with each of them, such a radical overhaul is not necessary... So far. But if they made changes to the kernel and the OS in order to speed up the inner processes of webOS and get for instance better efficiency and battery life, maybe that would be worth the effort and the change would be welcome by the users indeed.
  20. piaband's Avatar
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    #40  
    I don't think the real keyboard will ever be obsolete. People will always prefee to feel the keyboard as well as see. Is that saying anyone couldn't get use to virtual keyboards? Not at all
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