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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Yes. The point I'm discussing is having a fixed interface for performing tasks. A full keyboard device is not just good for typing, it also has dozens of buttons to perform all kinds of actions right away, and those actions benefit from muscle memory because they are tied to a permanent interface. You can operate single handedly without looking at the UI which is important on the go.
    This is a non issue for most touchscreen users and really comes down to personal preference. On the go I'm always looking at the UI and have no problems doing that. Also, I prefer to use the search button for contacts. It's not like we're competing to see who can dial a contact faster. The point is, most touchscreen users won't trade their experience for a tiny bit of speed.

    The trend is there, I'm not denying it. I'm doubting it will endure because it has no particular benefits for experienced users.
    Like already mentioned, it's becoming the norm now and widely accepted. I just don't picture a seasoned touchscreen user (e.g iPhone, G1, Droid) ever going back. Not going to happen. More and more users are functioning just fine with touch only, and as the speech-to-text, voice dial and touchscreen technologies improve, I see trackpads, styluses and trackballs disappearing from most brands.


    It is as time consuming as pulling a stylus out, enough to discourage use on the go. These devices need to be instantly available and ready to accept input.
    Actually it's not. I had a Pre for several months and not once did sliding out the keyboard become discouraging. My Droid's physical isn't used that much but when I've needed it, it was out in less than a second.

    It's fun debating about ergonomics with someone who uses a Droid, a bulky and uncomfortable device with a toy keyboard. I would understand if you at least agreed that it's uncomfortable but the big screen is worth the trade offs, that would be a legitimate argument.
    ??? lol. Sorry but I had to laugh. It's a matter of preference. You seem to have a hard time accepting that others don't see things the way you do.
    My hands are large and the Droid fits comfortably in them. Also, I would not invest in a device I'm uncomfortable with.

    A trackpad is just an optimization of the D-pad, which lets you control the entire device with very little movement. Again, the emphasis is on mobility, to be able to operate the device with one hand without needing to stop and look at the UI or hold the device with two hands while tapping on UI elements spread out on a full screen. The trackpad and full keyboard are a set of fixed dense navigation controls that apply to any screen.
    I have yet to see a BB user use one without looking at the screen. They need to look at the UI to select the correct icons, read messages or send email. Speed dialing is different I agree, but even so, most do it the regular way - via their address book or number pad.

    Lets do away with stylus, it's just a strawman you keep bringing into the discussion. BlackBerries don't use a stylus, and the latest ones don't even use a trackball. The argument is about which is better, a touch UI or track/D-pad and full keyboard.

    Well they're still selling models with trackballs and a trackpad really isn't much different in concept. We can argue all day about which is better but I think I've already presented my side of argument.



    Here are some usability videos that demonstrate why physical controls are superior to a touch UI:









    These types of videos can be easily manipulated one way or the other. I will always prefer touchscreens and consider them superior whether or not someone can demonstrate otherwise. You see, speed when it comes to certain functions, isn't everything. And there's an acceptable threshold. Yes at some point, lag can be frustrating but it's not an issue on the newer touchscreens and even when it's an issue, it's an acceptable trade off for many.

    I get to my important info quickly enough. I could care less weather you can dial 1 or 2 seconds faster than I can or do it while without looking at the UI.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    These types of videos can be easily manipulated one way or the other. I will always prefer touchscreens and consider them superior whether or not someone can demonstrate otherwise. You see, speed when it comes to certain functions, isn't everything. And there's an acceptable threshold. Yes at some point, lag can be frustrating but it's not an issue on the newer touchscreens and even when it's an issue, it's an acceptable trade off for many.

    I get to my important info quickly enough. I could care less weather you can dial 1 or 2 seconds faster than I can or do it while without looking at the UI.
    In the interest of brevity I'll pick it up from here. Are you suggesting now that the videos are manipulated?

    You say you will always prefer a touch screen, and that's fine. But I'm asking what is it about them that the BlackBerry needs so desperately? Other than saying they are easier to learn, you haven't said anything about their significance once you learned how to use the device. You know, people today are plenty comfortable with computers that are far more complicated than phones so I doubt the need to simplify the UI and strip away buttons will endure. I suspect it's just an Apple induced fad. Those devices are being replaced every couple years anyway so avoiding buttons for obvious needs like say, music controls, menu activation, back etc. is just pointless aesthetics.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  3. Helidos's Avatar
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    #43  
    Sinar I give you want to argue in circles have at it.. You want love for your blackberry here's the link crackberry.com

    BTW I can palm a BB bold too so enjoy living in little man land fight the good fight eh???

    Real quick why does BB need a good touch ui and new os because they are losing market share.. know why because of a **** ton of cool new touch screen phones. Yet touch is not the future right? enter the storm 2 BB second fail attempt at it with there old *** OS.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by helidos View Post
    Sinar I give you want to argue in circles have at it.. You want love for your blackberry here's the link crackberry.com

    BTW I can palm a BB bold too so enjoy living in little man land fight the good fight eh???

    Real quick why does BB need a good touch ui and new os because they are losing market share.. know why because of a **** ton of cool new touch screen phones. Yet touch is not the future right? enter the storm 2 BB second fail attempt at it with there old *** OS.
    Why are you so upset?

    I'm trying to understand the "little man land" insult. Is buying a device to you really is like picking a winner and belonging to the winning side?

    BTW, this is posted on the Other Devices forum, which is part of the Smartphone Experts sites, so it is shared by Crackberry as well.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  5. Helidos's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Why are you so upset?

    I'm trying to understand the "little man land" insult. Is buying a device to you really is like picking a winner and belonging to the winning side?

    BTW, this is posted on the Other Devices forum, which is part of the Smartphone Experts sites, so it is shared by Crackberry as well.
    Upset na I would have to be sober for that to happen! The little man thing is a personal thing inside joke if you will between friends who visit this site. No a device is not about picking the winning side its about what suits the USER the best.

    And the data shows that a single phone is about to pass RIM in the smart phone market and its a dumb smart phone to boot. Yet some how you don't get why BB needs a refresh on OS and style. They can keep the KB/Pad but if they don't get something out soon that's on par with the new smart/media phone they are gonna keep losing market share its as simple as that.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    In the interest of brevity I'll pick it up from here. Are you suggesting now that the videos are manipulated?

    You say you will always prefer a touch screen, and that's fine. But I'm asking what is it about them that the BlackBerry needs so desperately? Other than saying they are easier to learn, you haven't said anything about their significance once you learned how to use the device. You know, people today are plenty comfortable with computers that are far more complicated than phones so I doubt the need to simplify the UI and strip away buttons will endure. I suspect it's just an Apple induced fad. Those devices are being replaced every couple years anyway so avoiding buttons for obvious needs like say, music controls, menu activation, back etc. is just pointless aesthetics.
    Well if that's all you took away from what I've posted then I'm going to go ahead and bow out of this debate. Obviously I'm not going to convince you and vice versa. So lets agree to disagree.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  7. #47  
    I think they need to clean up the enterprise cruft that's still on every phone sold to consumers and make task switching and closing clearer. But other than that, the latest BlackBerries can handle multimedia and business apps just fine. Opera Mini 5 is better than the Pre browser, to give you one example.

    RIM will continue to evolve the Storm and I'm fine with that as long as it stays the course with their business/productivity devices.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    Well if that's all you took away from what I've posted then I'm going to go ahead and bow out of this debate. Obviously I'm not going to convince you and vice versa. So lets agree to disagree.
    You keep saying it's easier and that speed isn't everything, but you don't go into specifics. If speed isn't everything, what are the other things? I'm open to discussing them.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  9. #49  
    I checked out the BB app store and was shocked at how many cool apps they had available. I really had no idea.
    The Saint
  10. miata's Avatar
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    #50  
    This dialog reminds me of the old discussions around people using keyboard shortcuts versus using a mouse to go to the menus every time you want to do something. Different strokes for different folks. I go crazy just watching people go to the cut and paste menus over and over again. Cut and paste icons are a small improvement, but I go crazy when I don't have keyboard short-cuts.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by helidos View Post
    And the data shows that a single phone is about to pass RIM in the smart phone market and its a dumb smart phone to boot. Yet some how you don't get why BB needs a refresh on OS and style. They can keep the KB/Pad but if they don't get something out soon that's on par with the new smart/media phone they are gonna keep losing market share its as simple as that.
    RIM's OS leads U.S. Market Share with Apple trailing (Phone Arena News)

    "As of October-the latest month that data is available-RIM was the leader in the U.S. with about 41% (about 15 million users) of the OS market share. In second with 25% of the smartphone OS market share is Apple with Microsoft's Windows Mobile coming in third."

    I suspect that the Pre may be lucky to maintain a 3% market share. OTOH with AT&T and Verizon picking up the devices, I may be being pessimistic.

    RIM has been increasing its market share and around 80% of sales are now to consumers.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by clintwinstead View Post
    I checked out the BB app store and was shocked at how many cool apps they had available. I really had no idea.
    I am actually surprised there are so few given that the BB is the dominant smartphone platform in the US.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    RIM's OS leads U.S. Market Share with Apple trailing (Phone Arena News)

    "As of October-the latest month that data is available-RIM was the leader in the U.S. with about 41% (about 15 million users) of the OS market share. In second with 25% of the smartphone OS market share is Apple with Microsoft's Windows Mobile coming in third."

    I suspect that the Pre may be lucky to maintain a 3% market share. OTOH with AT&T and Verizon picking up the devices, I may be being pessimistic.

    RIM has been increasing its market share and around 80% of sales are now to consumers.
    As the article mentioned: "In the first week of November, the nation's top cellular carrier, Verizon, launched its first two Android devices as the Motorola DROID became a best seller with great reviews. This should change things dramatically when the survey is released next month and we should get a look at which OS is losing ground-if any-to Android."

    RIM isn't going to hold on to that share for too much longer. November was the start of the Google onslaught.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    As the article mentioned: "In the first week of November, the nation's top cellular carrier, Verizon, launched its first two Android devices as the Motorola DROID became a best seller with great reviews. This should change things dramatically when the survey is released next month and we should get a look at which OS is losing ground-if any-to Android."

    RIM isn't going to hold on to that share for too much longer. November was the start of the Google onslaught.
    It's already pretty clear that the OS most harmed by Android's second wind will be the Pre followed by what's left of the WM market share that RIM has not already taken.
  15. hubz1124's Avatar
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    #55  
    RIM will still continue to dominate the business market, as it should
  16. ddthld's Avatar
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by cas_esq View Post
    I have 2 phones: my BB (a "gift" from the federal government to ensure I get emails 24/7, although officially I'm only paid for 8/5) and my beloved Pre. Coming from a series of Treos, I immediately hated the BB and all but refused to carry it. After a few uncomfortable incidents when my phone was charging on my desk and I was elsewhere, I now carry the infernal device everywhere and still find it odd. (Yes, I get work emails instantly; I don't appreciate this feature much.) I'm sure I feel this way because I cut my smartphone teeth on Treos. If I had been introduced to a BB first (or sooner), I would probably like it better.
    I too have a BB issued by the Fed Gov (an 8703e to be exact) so I can get email and respond 24/7. I just picked up a Pixi Plus for non-work use (fun stuff). They both have their merits. I usually get email on my BB before my desktop gets it...funny stuff. I also use it as my calender, etc (the business aspect). The Pixi gets used for texting, weather, FB and Yahoo email. While I'd love to only carry one device....that device would have to be locked down with the different security stuff so I could email, etc. The thing is I like them both for what their intended use is. Just my .02!
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Opera Mini 5 is better than the Pre browser, to give you one example.
    We can agree to disagree but I don't see Opera Mini 5 or any incarnation of Opera in general being better than any Webkit browser on any phone it's definitely not as clean.
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