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  1. #41  
    Ohmigod.

    If it's half as cool as it looks, I'm in love.

    That said, I share some of the previous post's concerns, but I have a couple of additional ones as well:

    (a) Stowaway support? The keypad looks cool, but it isn't a replacement for a Stowaway when you have to do real work.

    (b) Modems and wireless access? I currently use a Springport wireline modem or my Startac and a cable to access the internet and update AvantGo when I'm on the road. How are the Sonys for peripherals? Can you hook the other Sonys up to your cell phone?
  2. #42  
    (b) Modems and wireless access? I currently use a Springport wireline modem or my Startac and a cable to access the internet and update AvantGo when I'm on the road. How are the Sonys for peripherals? Can you hook the other Sonys up to your cell phone?
    Well, it was drowned by the announcements of the new clies, but Sony released a Bluetooth Memory Stick today also (atleast in japan...)

    You can find the story at Palm Infocenter
    Blue Visor Deluxe ~ Clie T615 ~ Zire 71 ~ Treo 650 ~ Palm Centro
  3. #43  
    Originally posted by VTL

    (a) Stowaway support? The keypad looks cool, but it isn't a replacement for a Stowaway when you have to do real work.
    Well, the Flip Screen will get Stowaway support when we patient, patient T-series owners get Stowaway support.

    I look at it as added incentive for them to the good people at ThinkOutside to get that thing working for the T-series.
    Jeff Meyer

    "And he died like he lived: with his mouth wide open."
  4. #44  
    This reminds me of the time Handspring introduced the Visor...
    Totally 'new and improved' over the current models..

    Now it is the choice between a PDA and phone (treo) and a PDA and digicam (New sony)....

    For handsprings sake I hope the treo 270 will be on the market before this new sony....
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  5. #45  
    More like a month or two. I bet that Sony will released a palm os 5 device in the Fall.



    Originally posted by MIKE STH
    WHEN my 615c gets here tomorrow, it should give me enough time, in hand, to get familiar with all the changes in hardware before moving on when this unit appears stateside. I see absolutely no reason in the world why I won't upgrade the day it hits our shores...Just think what Sony will be putting out in a year or two...
  6. #46  
    Why is that? The Treo 270 is not in the same category as Sony's new device. If Sony Ericcson release a cool color Palm OS phone at reasonable price, then Handspring should be worried.


    Originally posted by ToolkiT
    This reminds me of the time Handspring introduced the Visor...
    Totally 'new and improved' over the current models..

    Now it is the choice between a PDA and phone (treo) and a PDA and digicam (New sony)....

    For handsprings sake I hope the treo 270 will be on the market before this new sony....
  7. #47  
    Originally posted by bookrats
    All the examples I've seen have been with photos being shown. I'm wondering how smart a standard Palm app needs to be to use that extra space -- or whether it can. (I'm unfamiliar with how well Handeras have dealt with this with standard applications.)
    My "educated guess" is that the only way for an app to use the "entire" screen is to bypass the PalmOS API and write directly to the framebuffer. This is common for image and movie viewers that give you a "fullscreen" option but not practical for apps that need to present a normal user interface.

    Handera has a pretty well engineered technique for doing virtual graffiti and high-res. My guess (from seeing what they've done on VFS and Sony high-res) is that Sony doesn't. Sony may put a lot of engineering into their hardware, but their ability to provide well engineered software APIs has traditionally left a lot to be desired.
    <ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>
  8. #48  
    Originally posted by dkessler


    My "educated guess" is that the only way for an app to use the "entire" screen is to bypass the PalmOS API and write directly to the framebuffer. This is common for image and movie viewers that give you a "fullscreen" option but not practical for apps that need to present a normal user interface.

    Handera has a pretty well engineered technique for doing virtual graffiti and high-res. My guess (from seeing what they've done on VFS and Sony high-res) is that Sony doesn't. Sony may put a lot of engineering into their hardware, but their ability to provide well engineered software APIs has traditionally left a lot to be desired.
    That would make the most sense to me. This would allow applications like the PictureGear to display Full Screen, but only because it has been designed to take advantage of it.

    In other words, more than likely the Application controls the Graffiti area and not the user.
    In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. JOHN 14:2
  9. #49  
    Originally posted by dkessler
    My "educated guess" is that the only way for an app to use the "entire" screen is to bypass the PalmOS API and write directly to the framebuffer. This is common for image and movie viewers that give you a "fullscreen" option but not practical for apps that need to present a normal user interface.
    Yeah... that would explain what I've seen so far on the various web sites. I just noticed another screen shot of the new Flip Clie that looks like the Clie WorldClock app, but using the whole screen.

    Sounds as if, at least at the beginning, that Sony apps will be the only ones using the "fullscreen" option; and that the development "cost" for the average Palm SW developer are going to be rather steep. I wouldn't expect to see a lot of people providing support for it (except maybe image display SW, like SplashPhoto.)


    Handera has a pretty well engineered technique for doing virtual graffiti and high-res. My guess (from seeing what they've done on VFS and Sony high-res) is that Sony doesn't. Sony may put a lot of engineering into their hardware, but their ability to provide well engineered software APIs has traditionally left a lot to be desired.
    Well, I went over to the Datebk4 group on Yahoo! that C.E. Steuart Dewar (aka CESD), the developer and implementer of Datebk4, to see what he had to say about the Clie/Handera APIs. He's put support for hi-res fonts (and maybe one or two other things) for the Clie and Handera machines into Datebk4, and thus has had to deal with both implementations. He's also currently writing the Datebk4 code to the Palm OS 5 APIs, so that he'll be able to have a version that runs natively on OS 5 when the PDAs become available.

    So I figured he'd be someone who would have experience and perspective to compare the two "proprietary" (i.e., not in the Palm OS API) methods of display.

    Found two articles that might be of interest: the first discusses implementing for the Handera Hi-Res API vs. the Sony API, and the second discusses why he wishes PalmSource had defined a Hi-Res implementation earlier for the Palm OS (to which I say: Amen, brother).

    I think the gist of his articles is that he thinks the Sony API is easier to integrate with existing code, but that the Handera API is more powerful, i.e., it gives the developer more abilities to control the display of graphics and text. However, in both cases he's talking OT regarding each poster's initial question. Maybe I should just drop a note and ask him directly if he'd compare and contrast the Clie/Handera APIs.

    Anyway, thought these might be of interest.
    Jeff Meyer

    "And he died like he lived: with his mouth wide open."
  10. Rob
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    #50  
    Originally posted by bookrats
    I wouldn't expect to see a lot of people providing support for it (except maybe image display SW, like SplashPhoto.)
    Actually, I doubt that SplashPhoto will take advantage of it, because they still haven't even taken advantage of the 320x320 hi-res screen. If I had to guess, I would say that the first apps that would support the new sony 320x480 screen would be Wordsmith and QuickOffice (both of whom were pretty early adopters of HandEra's 160x240 screen and Sony's 320x320 screen)

    Originally posted by bookrats

    Well, I went over to the Datebk4 group on Yahoo! that C.E. Steuart Dewar (aka CESD), the developer and implementer of Datebk4, to see what he had to say about the Clie/Handera APIs.
    (snip)
    I think the gist of his articles is that he thinks the Sony API is easier to integrate with existing code, but that the Handera API is more powerful, i.e., it gives the developer more abilities to control the display of graphics and text.
    While these articles are interesting, CESD isn't actually talking about the NEW sony virtual grafitti APIs for the 320x480 screen, he's just talking about Sony's 320x320 hi-res APIs vs. HandEra's 160x240 virt. grafitti APIs (which of course require non-integral scaling, as would Sony's new virt. grafitti)
  11. #51  
    Originally posted by bookrats
    I think the gist of his articles is that he thinks the Sony API is easier to integrate with existing code, but that the Handera API is more powerful, i.e., it gives the developer more abilities to control the display of graphics and text. However, in both cases he's talking OT regarding each poster's initial question. Maybe I should just drop a note and ask him directly if he'd compare and contrast the Clie/Handera APIs.
    Thanks for linking those posts. I've studied both the Handera and Sony APIs but since I haven't done any serious development for either, It's interesting to reading Mr. Dewar's thoughts on how they compare. If you can get him to expound further, I would certainly be interested.

    The fact is that both techniques are hampered by the fact that they're trying to provide easy ways for "existing" apps to add high-res support. Sony's techniques are "easier" but form object are simply scaled and only fonts and manually drawn graphics get to take advantage of high res. Handera's APIs are a little more flexible but they too force developers to either scale an existing interface by a fixed amount or create custom forms designed for a specific screen resolution (QVGA in Handera's case).

    If PalmSource is really serious about supporting a wide variety of hardware then they need a layout manager based forms API and they need it now! Unfortunately, they wimped out on OS 5 so now developers will find it very difficult to do much more than "scale" a standard set of forms to the device's resolution. Developers are going to have either ignore high resolution or work very hard to create apps that intelligently make use of added screen real estate. Not a good situation
    <ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>
  12. #52  
    Originally posted by Rob
    While these articles are interesting, CESD isn't actually talking about the NEW sony virtual grafitti APIs for the 320x480 screen, he's just talking about Sony's 320x320 hi-res APIs vs. HandEra's 160x240 virt. grafitti APIs (which of course require non-integral scaling, as would Sony's new virt. grafitti)
    At this point, Sony hasn't published or even announced any NEW virtual graffiti APIs (at least not on the US developer's site). There's no guarantee that PalmOS forms based apps will even have any control over the virtual graffiti area on the NR series Clie's.
    <ul><li>Dave Kessler<br>President - Kopsis, Inc.</li></ul>
  13. #53  
    All these uncertainty over APIs and implementation of Virtual Graffitti and so on are VERY GOOD REASONS, to wait until Palm OS5 devices.

    I wouldn't wait for this one, but the next generation of Sony's running on OS5 and ARM.

    Unless of course $500 is pocket change every 3 months or so
    No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings - William Blake
  14. #54  
    Originally posted by flashk
    All these uncertainty over APIs and implementation of Virtual Graffitti and so on are VERY GOOD REASONS, to wait until Palm OS5 devices.
    Actually, from what Dave is saying, waiting for real support for varying display sizes from the Palm OS means waiting until Palm OS 6... or later... or maybe never.

    From what I can see, Palm OS5 offers nothing that entices me to wait, given my PDA wants and needs. There will probably be OS5-only apps that pop up in 1-2 years that may make me want an OS5 PDA; but I can't see it getting acute for 2-3 years, and that's the average life of a PDA for me, anyway.

    Just happy with my T615C; not even lusting for the new NR unit.
    Jeff Meyer

    "And he died like he lived: with his mouth wide open."
  15. #55  
    3 observations (maybe obvious):
    1. The tilt screen: the reason it tilts is pretty clear. When it's closed, the keyboard is facing the inside, but when you open it, the keyboard is facing the outside, but you flip the screen. Coooool.
    2. Form factor must not be so great.
    3. Those pictures of the screen with the graffiti area closed look simulated.
    -Bernie

    "One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is 'to be prepared'.
    -Dan Quayle
  16. #56  
    here are some of my observations of the new NR series (now that I have picked my jaw up and have wiped off the drool that was messing up my keyboard):

    1) Virtual Graffiti - It definitely looks collapseable but perhaps only in apps that support it. There is an arrow at the bottom that minimizes and maximizes the graffiti area, a la Handera.
    2) I can't get over the keyboard! Looks a lot better than the Thumboard or treo keyboards. The buttons look more significant.
    3) Hard buttons - finally, it looks like Sony CAN indeed make normal hard buttons. I was worried that perhaps that didn't know how to make a circular button and half circle arrow buttons. Now lets see if they can put these on non-keyboard handheld for all those who apparently don't like it.
    4) The screen - DROOOOOOOOOL
    5) Battery life - okay, I am a little worried about that. Hopefully they will release that AAA adapter in the US for the NR clie. This definitely should be the next thing that Sony works on. They got the way it looks right. I am also sure they have OS5 prototypes but they NEED to work on battery life. I would be perfectly happy with 8 hours. That would certainly be enough to get me through the day.
    6) Camera - not as good as my EM2 but hey, its built in! So I can use the camera and a memory card at the same time.

    All in all, I can definitely say that I will get this. Everything I want and more. Replaces all the SB modules that I use plus MP3 playback.

    Jason
    Did you just go near a burning hot river of lava or are you just happy to see me?
  17. #57  
    Originally posted by volcanopele
    Replaces all the SB modules that I use plus MP3 playback.
    One of the reasons I won't mind dropping HS for sony. I'll just need some way to use 802.11b with it or keep my handera and use it for wireless ethernet along with the sony.
    You know it's bad when your Calculus Professor uses the word "Unpossible"

    "It's a long way from my thoughts to what I'll say, It's a long, long way from paradise to where I am today." -Switchfoot, Home
  18. #58  
    I wonder if Sony realizes that because they announced this in Japan nobody in the states (who's in their right mind) will buy one of their current models because they're waiting for this one to pop up here?
    You know it's bad when your Calculus Professor uses the word "Unpossible"

    "It's a long way from my thoughts to what I'll say, It's a long, long way from paradise to where I am today." -Switchfoot, Home
  19. #59  
    Sony doesn't work that way in the CLIE world. They stop making the previous models before they announce something new. That way there is no glut of unsold inventory to clear out. There is only pent up demand for the new model and everybody elses sales drop.

    Very clever. Now if they could only get the accessories out the door just as quickly.
  20. #60  
    Originally posted by olendorf
    Sony doesn't work that way in the CLIE world. They stop making the previous models before they announce something new. That way there is no glut of unsold inventory to clear out. There is only pent up demand for the new model and everybody elses sales drop.

    Very clever. Now if they could only get the accessories out the door just as quickly.
    But they still sell the 760c which my understanding the NR70 is the replacement for. I doubt to many people will buy the 760c or even the 615 because of the nr70
    You know it's bad when your Calculus Professor uses the word "Unpossible"

    "It's a long way from my thoughts to what I'll say, It's a long, long way from paradise to where I am today." -Switchfoot, Home
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