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  1.    #1  
    Palm IIIx-->Sony Clie t615c-->Palm Treo 650-->Palm Treo 700p-->Palm Treo 800w-->Samsung Moment

    I'm sad to have to leave Palm-land, but I believe when Palm abandoned their original OS and ideas, they abandoned me. I needed multitasking and some more powerful features, but I was invested in Palm OS as well, which they dropped.

    I stuck with Palm and went WinMo, but the 800w left a foul taste in my mouth, with Media Player stopping working until reverting to backups, lockups if I used G-alarm and a PIN unlock screen, and random internet stoppages until soft resets.

    I already miss a couple of nice features: slide switch for a vibrate mode, the screen saver on the 800w.

    I'm afraid to jump on board WebOS, it doesn't seem to have the push of Android, and feels like MacOS, pre return of Steve Jobs, and I don't know if it will surge or die, but Android is rocketing, and there aren't the fears there.

    Palm OS was so customizable, with apps galore, cheap ones that could let you do tons of things, while the Pre is locked down like an iPhone without the beautiful abundance of apps.

    The iPhone, like the Pre is weak for business, which is where Palm started, and I need something that does the basics like calendar and email well, and Google is playing that game.

    With the end of the Treo, and a whole new platform, it gave me the opportunity and push to explore new platforms, and I think Android has the customization and business capabilities I need and desire in a phone.

    I love this forum, I don't think that I would have survived the six months I did with the 800w without it, and it showed me so many cool things with all my Treos.

    I know I was never super active here, but hope I'll still be welcome here, and I plan to still read these forums. I'll of course not bash others choices, because others' needs are certainly going to be different from mine.
  2. shotyme's Avatar
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    #2  
    It is quite understandable that you don't want to see what happens to Palm, but I don't foresee them vanishing within the next 3 years. Elevations Partners will make sure of that, but Palm has being doing quite well for a small company.

    Palm will be here for awhile. They have a solid user base and it is getting rave reviews. Plus, the homebrew scene is keepin up the customizations.

    WebOS isn't finish by a long shot, but it is off to a good start. I suspect once it is on Verizon, Verizon may start a huge marketing push of it and AT&T will have it as well. WebOS will succeed, at least for the next 3 years, they will be in business. I would be longer.
  3. #3  
    I laugh at you guys pining for your palm os...just keep the treos then, guys...webos pummels that antiquated stuff. It's like people lamenting how their highschool went downhill or something after they left...dude...you are just clinging to odd inchoate memories...doesn't make them valid.
  4. RafRol's Avatar
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    #4  
    No flames from me Mak, but I do want to point out something that may not be too obvious about Palm OS. You see, Palm OS was developed way back in 1996 for a simple, yet powerful PDA (for the time). That very same OS, was patched, pushed, and stretched to accommodate the needs of a smart phone 11 years later!. Yes, the Treo 755P still had code in it that debut with the Pilot 1000 while Palm was still a subsidiary of U.S. Robotics. PalmOS was developed to the point that not much more could be done to it, so yes it seemed that Palm was resting on their laurels, when in reality there wasn't much to develop further without starting anew (hence WebOS).

    Imagine a car engine that kept getting upgrades (new headers, exhaust, fuel injection, etc). Doesn't matter how much you bolt on to it, it's still a six cylinder; there is a limit. What Palm did was create a new V8, and as you know, it's not as refined as it needs to be, but I'm sure Palm will be working on it for some time because there is plenty of room to grow with the new engine block. They didn't have that room with Palm OS 5.

    On an interesting note, iPhone OS is the opposite. It's a desktop OS cut-down to fit into a smart phone (think of a de-tuned V8) as opposed to a PDA OS built-up to power a smart phone.

    So there is a new urgency with Palm and WebOS, and I'm confident that they won't let us down. They have what they need (a new platform) to provide constant and viable updates for years to come and once again become relevant and competitive.
    Last edited by berdinkerdickle; 12/19/2009 at 12:10 AM.
    Visor/Sprint Springboard Expansion Module > Visor Platinum > Tungsten E > Centro (work) > Palm Pre
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by saboater View Post
    Palm IIIx-->Sony Clie t615c-->Palm Treo 650-->Palm Treo 700p-->Palm Treo 800w-->Samsung Moment

    I'm afraid to jump on board WebOS, it doesn't seem to have the push of Android, and feels like MacOS, pre return of Steve Jobs, and I don't know if it will surge or die, but Android is rocketing, and there aren't the fears there.

    Palm OS was so customizable, with apps galore, cheap ones that could let you do tons of things, while the Pre is locked down like an iPhone without the beautiful abundance of apps.

    The iPhone, like the Pre is weak for business, which is where Palm started, and I need something that does the basics like calendar and email well, and Google is playing that game.

    With the end of the Treo, and a whole new platform, it gave me the opportunity and push to explore new platforms, and I think Android has the customization and business capabilities I need and desire in a phone.
    You probably picked the weakest platform then. WebOS makes use of google email & calendar which you say are the basics. Google in fact is focused on being part of every platform..their business is having you use their search and clicking on their ads. Their business is not selling you a smartphone experience and giving you smartphone support.

    Android isn't rocketing. It's being given away. Multiple makers & carriers are in turn making it their own putting their own spin on it. You're not assured of any updates and if one happens it will take months to update any changes google makes to stock android.

    WebOS is capable of multiple exchange accounts, google, yahoo, etc. Integrated email, messenging, calendars, & contacts...all from multiple sources. Android can't do that.

    Visual multitasking. Android can't do that.

    Patches/homebrew that gives you the option to cherry pick different addons. Android doesn't do that.

    Apps are irrelevant now as the sdk will improve for webOS. What you're seeing now is simply Palm saying, yeah, we have apps.

    Lag is a problem which can be fixed later as either better hardware is thrown at it or webOS matures and makes better use of hardware.

    It's not often you can pick up a smartphone on version 1.x and want to use it for business. In fact, you don't do that. You do have to give it time. By all means, use something that works for you now. I couldn't suffer through the iphone in 1.x and stayed with centro. Can't rely on webOS 1.x either and using an iphone 3GS which is more reliable.

    Whether palm lives or dies depends on them recognizing the need for high quality hardware like the Droid, making webOS more dependable and ***** proof, evolving webOS and sdk, and better marketing. It's understandable you wouldn't want to jump on board yet though. Maybe we'll find out something at CES if Palm is ready to live or die.
  6. #6  
    wow can't customize the palm pre? Dude have you actually been reading anything in the forums here? My phone is completely cutomised to how I want it . Ha!
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  7. #7  
    I am about to retire my Centro and switch from Palm. Not going to Android though (or any other platform such as WebOS that requires me to use the awful Google PIM "cloud").

    That leaves Blackberry or WM and since I don't want to pay for EAS and WM has a crappy UI and no good phone choices, BB it is. My SIM is going in a 9700 when I return from a trip.
  8. #8  
    These type of threads are becoming common on this board, and not because someone is just coming here to troll. I gave WebOS more than a fair shake(I definitely gave Palm more chances than most people would have), and it didn't work out for me, and I'm much happier with the Droid now. I'm still interested to see how WebOS develops, and also have an opinion based on much experience with the Pre and WebOS, hence I still post on here, even if people don't like it.
  9. jp99's Avatar
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    #9  
    Either most of you guys are too young for some basic OS history, or you haven't thought about it.

    In the early 1980's, CP/M ruled the day for a solid OS. Every hardware needed its own flavor, but various programs ran the same on each machine. IBM PC/DOS was introduced along with the IBM PC, but who wanted to give up the functionality you had (in 1982)?

    Then MS/DOS or PC/DOS took over by 1984-5, and ruled the 80's. MS Windows came out, first at 1.0, then 2, and 3 and 3.1. 3.1 was the first really useful general release of Windows and the software started coming along with it. Still, to use Windows in the early days, you had to give up a lot of functionality you had in DOS based programs. DOS was better in many respects.

    Other major releases of Windows that were major changes encountered some resistance as well - Win95, WinNT/2000 - though the changes weren't as major as before. All of this parallels some of our smartphone OS developments we see happening today.

    The point is, as some have mentioned in this thread, is PalmOS, while functional, is at its end of life. Sure it does more today than webOS because of the apps, but in a few years it won't even be close. No one's developing new hardware for PalmOS (or are they? I'm not aware of any), and you'll be regulated to scrounging around eBay for hardware in a few years. And without new hardware the software developers will start going away. I know there's emulators like Classic - and I recall owning CP/M emulators for DOS. It helps with the transition, but it'll go away eventually.

    So 30 years of observing software OS have taught me that old systems, while functional, will have problems when major changes start coming, and you won't be able to fight it or hang on to the old OS without getting left behind. And the OS market will address the missing holes with developers writing good applications, whether they be for Apple, webOS, Android or whatever, and we won't be looking back wishing we had the old OS. I expect good PIM & other applications on the various new OS's as time goes on, and that will be your best choice to replace the PalmOS system you currently use. In the long run, the change will be beneficial.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Android isn't rocketing. It's being given away. Multiple makers & carriers are in turn making it their own putting their own spin on it. You're not assured of any updates and if one happens it will take months to update any changes google makes to stock android.
    That's...not true, actually. It was being given away from day one, but only now is it the talk of the tech blogs, Verizon's flagship phone, the top smartphone on every carrier except for AT&T, etc. If that's not rocketing, I don't know what is.

    WebOS is capable of multiple exchange accounts, google, yahoo, etc. Integrated email, messenging, calendars, & contacts...all from multiple sources. Android can't do that.
    Between Sense UI and Android 2.0, Android has already started integrating these sources, and whether I ever go back to WebOS or not, Sense UI has a superior implementation of Synergy right now. You have much more control.

    Visual multitasking. Android can't do that.
    That's not true, either. Just because I'm not looking at a screenshot, doesn't mean I can't see a visual representation of programs that are open. Android has multiple ways for you to do this from "Managing Applications" in the native menus to holding down the Home button to third party task managers. The choice is yours.

    None of them are linear like WebOS where you move through however many programs you have horizontally, one swipe at a time.

    Patches/homebrew that gives you the option to cherry pick different addons. Android doesn't do that.
    If not for your next critique (which I'll get to in a sec), this would easily be the most inaccurate and toothless rip of Android yet.

    Android doesn't give you the option to "pick add-ons"? That's odd. Not only are a variety of homescreen replacements available in the Market, but you can choose entirely different UIs based on which handset you buy. The WebOS "add-ons" are mostly giving you options that come stock with Android anyway, and changing icons and wallpaper. In other words, stuff you could do with a Centro years ago.

    Apps are irrelevant now as the sdk will improve for webOS. What you're seeing now is simply Palm saying, yeah, we have apps.
    Yup, this one is the whopper of whoppers. Apps are irrelevant because the SDK will improve? First off, when will this happen? No one knows. Second, how is that guaranteed to ensure app parity with the competition? Android has much deeper penetration, more carriers, more mindshare (especially with the Google Phone on top of Droid and Hero) and has had a better SDK for far longer. It's not at parity with iPhone OS. So how will Palm equal Google when it will have none of those things, even with an improved SDK at some point in the future? Will this come before or after the GPU is enabled systemwide?

    And when is THAT going to happen, BTW?

    As you say, you have to get what works now. So many of Palm's attributes are potential and "Well, when X happens down the line...."
  11. #11  
    You Droid fanatics do realize Android really wasn't all that big until the Droid came out. People had the Phones, they were talking great things about it, but you never really heard anyone who didn't own one talk about Android. Now, that they came out with undeniably great commercials that has really sparked interest in people, those who didn't own one really wanted to know what the fuss was about. Remember the Jet commercial, it was admittedly genuis, but Adroid was ready to make those type of powerful commercials. They had apps to back them up, an OS that they had practice with, a user base, multiple service providers it's been running on and most of all money. Palms not ready yet. We know Webos is going to surpass these phones if they keep it up. It's like Kobe Bryant when he first came into the NBA. He didn't start, but we knew right when he stepped on to the court that he was great and had much potential. They were already talking about him being the new Jordan and that was just because of his athletic ability. They knew that he would never be, like, the next Jordan if they didn't educate him about how to lead a team and THINK like a pro. Look at him now. He's one of the best that ever stepped foot on the court. Same potential for the webos.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post

    As you say, you have to get what works now. So many of Palm's attributes are potential and "Well, when X happens down the line...."
    I gave it a shot. One can only defend Palm so much. In the end, i desire a high end phone and Palm doesn't offer one. So..

    Based on that call yesterday, given the hint that they're happy with their two form factors, and given Ares, I'll concede this one to you.

    I'm not buying into android yet, but barring a surprise hardware announcement at CES, i'm probably giving up on Palm. Guess that leaves me with Apple.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by jp99 View Post
    The point is, as some have mentioned in this thread, is PalmOS, while functional, is at its end of life. Sure it does more today than webOS because of the apps, but in a few years it won't even be close. No one's developing new hardware for PalmOS (or are they? I'm not aware of any), and you'll be regulated to scrounging around eBay for hardware in a few years. And without new hardware the software developers will start going away. I know there's emulators like Classic - and I recall owning CP/M emulators for DOS. It helps with the transition, but it'll go away eventually.

    So 30 years of observing software OS have taught me that old systems, while functional, will have problems when major changes start coming, and you won't be able to fight it or hang on to the old OS without getting left behind. And the OS market will address the missing holes with developers writing good applications, whether they be for Apple, webOS, Android or whatever, and we won't be looking back wishing we had the old OS. I expect good PIM & other applications on the various new OS's as time goes on, and that will be your best choice to replace the PalmOS system you currently use. In the long run, the change will be beneficial.
    No one is arguing that PalmOS is not end of life. The issue is what replaces it. For a PalmOS power user who is still using the platform in 2009 its probably not WebOS. Either WM or Blackberry OS are the most realistic choices. Not Android, not iPhone and definitely not WebOS.
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    You probably picked the weakest platform then. WebOS makes use of google email & calendar which you say are the basics. Google in fact is focused on being part of every platform..their business is having you use their search and clicking on their ads. Their business is not selling you a smartphone experience and giving you smartphone support.

    Android isn't rocketing. It's being given away. Multiple makers & carriers are in turn making it their own putting their own spin on it. You're not assured of any updates and if one happens it will take months to update any changes google makes to stock android.
    But interestingly, while waiting for my first update, I've already rooted my phone and made modifications to fix some of the things I want or add others.

    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post

    WebOS is capable of multiple exchange accounts, google, yahoo, etc. Integrated email, messenging, calendars, & contacts...all from multiple sources. Android can't do that.
    Multiple exchange is a limitation, but not one I need, I only have work exchange, and could do IMAP if no exchange was available. Out of the box my moment support Exchange with Moxier email, plus its regular email client supports IMAP and POP. Calendar is actually fantastic, it merges my personal calendar from Google and my Exchange Calendar so my personal appointments don't have to go to my work exchange. I've been wanting that for years and had convoluted filtering on the sync side to try and accomadate, and my phone does it for me now. Contacts has exchange and Google syncing, and supports third party tools like Missing Sync, which is what I've been used to for years on Mac anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Visual multitasking. Android can't do that.
    Not sure what this is, since I haven't actually used a Pre, but I'm content with setting up 3-4 mp3 downloads, then switching to a game while they download, or sending out a text message, it works similar to windows and others with "Alt-Tab"

    Patches/homebrew that gives you the option to cherry pick different addons. Android doesn't do that.
    This is what the apps are supposed to do, if they were there. Rooting provides the same thing as homebrew, plus Android doesn't even require any special rooting if you want to write your own apps, the platform isn't closed.

    Apps are irrelevant now as the sdk will improve for webOS. What you're seeing now is simply Palm saying, yeah, we have apps.

    Lag is a problem which can be fixed later as either better hardware is thrown at it or webOS matures and makes better use of hardware.

    It's not often you can pick up a smartphone on version 1.x and want to use it for business. In fact, you don't do that. You do have to give it time. By all means, use something that works for you now. I couldn't suffer through the iphone in 1.x and stayed with centro. Can't rely on webOS 1.x either and using an iphone 3GS which is more reliable.
    This is where I was very pleasantly surprised... having come from Palm OS and WinMobile, I was worried Android would be weak here, but it has a strong calendar, email, and Exchange support, so its become my business phone. iPhone was too limited.
    Android seems the best of both worlds, business and supports the fun, I have a very accessible Linux on my phone I can do whatever I want with, and use the same device for being on time for meetings and such.
    Plus Google definitely has the "geek" factor going for it more than WebOS, more people will be hacking at it, just because of this, let alone its widespread use.
    Whether palm lives or dies depends on them recognizing the need for high quality hardware like the Droid, making webOS more dependable and ***** proof, evolving webOS and sdk, and better marketing. It's understandable you wouldn't want to jump on board yet though. Maybe we'll find out something at CES if Palm is ready to live or die.
    I'm hoping Palm sticks around. I agree that if Verizon gets it, we may have a big competitor, and I think its a great thing. I'm hoping that by the time I look at phones again in a year, the new device is out and I'll definitely put it in consideration. I don't think WebOS is a bad platform, I just think it needs to get used more before people start to run with it. Kind of the chicken or the egg problem.
  15.    #15  
    Sorry wrote my follow-up before reading mikah's...

    I'm hoping like some of you have said that WebOS will be big soon happens, competition is definitely good for all of us. I'm no longer tied to one platform, Palm had me for years, and due to there changes, they set me free. So I'm free to look at Symbian, WebOS, Android, Windows Mobile, and see where they will go.

    Palm may not have lost me permanently as a customer, I've got no hard feelings. But they are definitely the only reason I'm able to look at other platforms, and that's because they didn't quite hit the home run with the Pre. I don't think Android did, either, but in some ways, both platforms are very similar, but with a significantly wider customer and customization community(apps plus rooting and roms), I can fix Android more easily than WebOS until the platforms mature on there own. Plus I get my pick of hardware platforms and I get SD cards and a few other nice-to-haves.
  16. #16  
    I have a text completer- thanks to AutoCorrectEdit; , I have a book reader that allow me to read my old Palm OS books- thanks to pReader. I still need Simple Bible Pro so that I can have a good bible reader and more functional versions of Splash ID and Doc to Go.

    Most of what I need from the phone is useful software for audiobooks, quicken,workout software, etc. On the plus side, I now do a lot of things with my phone that was to cumbersome for me to use in the past: e-mail, texting.

    The beauty of the Pre is I don't have to open an app to discover I have text messages or e-mail and when I receive text or e-mails, the alerts don't disrupt the use of the phone. Unfortunately for Palm, I want the new stuff they've given me plus all of the functionality of the old OS. Classic help with that, but it doesn't work for everything.

    Fortunately for Palm, I don't like changes and I'm not the type of user who will switch formats hoping that another phone will give me what I need. If Palm gets there in the next year while many of us are still in our two year contract, they will keep a lot of us. If not, they will probably lose some customers and not just those who want the new gadget. They will also lose customers who can reasonably say that two years is enough time to achieve functionality that was available in an older format.
  17.    #17  
    Well put bdhu2001. Its always funny the first thing I looked for when going to the Treo 800 were apps that did what I was used to, and same thing all over again.
    I do like the notification bar in my Moment, from what you are saying, something similar exists in the Pre.
  18. #18  
    It seems like every year more and more people expect instant gratification. Time will prove again and again that it just wont happen like that. It take a lot of development and time.

    I had the iPhone when it first came out (also had the 3G) and although I loved it to death it was a painful transition. It was new tech and although they spent millions in development it fell short in a lot of ways. And now they are bar for every other phone out there. The why we keep hearing about the next "iPhone killer"... And that took time.

    The point it that you cant reasonably expect a new technology that has only been in the market for one half of this year to be everything you want it to be. Truth be told (based on my own experience) the OS has had less problems then the iPhone did when it was released.

    Let palm know how you feel and what you need from them. I bet they will listen. They sent out surveys via email (i got one yesterday and they gave me $10 for my opinion) asking what my experience was and how somethings could be improved. This is a very active approach and I was happy to have a say so. No other phone maker has ever given my this opportunity and to me this tells me that they want our opinion.

    Nurture it and it will grow.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by saboater View Post
    Well put bdhu2001. Its always funny the first thing I looked for when going to the Treo 800 were apps that did what I was used to, and same thing all over again.
    I do like the notification bar in my Moment, from what you are saying, something similar exists in the Pre.
    Actually, the notification on the Pre is better. You can actually see what you're dismissing and the # of new e-mails and messages that you've received. For instance, I know that I have an e-mail from PreCentral and that it's a reply to the pReader thread.
    Although there are plenty of favorite apps that I'd like to use again or feel that I need, there are also plenty of apps that I purchased and didn't continue to use after a few weeks. Do you find that also?
  20.    #20  
    Definitely, some games weren't so riveting once purchased, or I found too late ways that I can get things done better (Synchronization with a Mac cost me a lot of money, and I found too late free ways to tether on both platforms, so PDANet got plenty of money). I've also found that not having some apps has made me look around more, and find better ways to do things, improving productivity.

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