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  1. #121  
    webOS looks great and the cards are brilliant. However, Palm needs to whip up that hardware acceleration quick. Customers are paying for a full smartphone machine, but are only getting pretty graphics on an underpowered brick.
    The Pixi is not worth it. An extra hundred gets you a real phone.
    Homebrew is awesome but open development is cooler.
    Who knows if Palm has it in them. I wouldn't invest long run.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil750 View Post

    1. Is webOS going to hold up? Sure, it's great for now. But how long until everybody's screaming for immersive gaming and full-on graphics?
    2. The Pixi's a cute little phone, but is the trade-off in power, and the (current) lack of WiFi, a deal-killer?
    3. Homebrew is darn cool, a lot like being able to load custom ROMs on HTC devices. If there was no Homebrew and you were left only with the App Catalog, would you still be on webOS?
    4. webOS on an HTC HD2. Just picture it.
    5. I'm still a little P-Od that Palm killed the Windows Mobile Treo. Had to get that out there. I feel better now.
    6. Palm's still not out of the financial woods yet. Do you think they're going to make it in the long run?

    [/URL]
    1) yeah, the OS will hold up just fine for quite a while based on what we've seen in just the last six months.
    2) lack of wifi was killer, but VZ seems to have solved that
    3) Nope, need to tweak. That's why this forum and TC are/were so popular.
    4) would be nice
    5) You kidding me? I won an 800w as a *prize* from Dieter and it was the biggest bag of suck out of all the Treos I ever owned. Capable, yes, but only after tweaking it to the gills. It would be nice, however, to be able to have separate sounds for various alerts the way the WinMob device or old POS Treos would allow.
    6) Palm will make it; they might get bought, but they'll make it
    --Steve

    Visor-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700P-->Treo 800W-->Palm Pre-->HP Touchpad

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  3. edrdoberts's Avatar
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    #123  
    1.Is webOS going to hold up? Sure, it's great for now. But how long until everybody's screaming for immersive gaming and full-on graphics?
    2. The Pixi's a cute little phone, but is the trade-off in power, and the (current) lack of WiFi, a deal-killer?
    3. Homebrew is darn cool, a lot like being able to load custom ROMs on HTC devices. If there was no Homebrew and you were left only with the App Catalog, would you still be on webOS?
    4. webOS on an HTC HD2. Just picture it.
    5. I'm still a little P-Od that Palm killed the Windows Mobile Treo. Had to get that out there. I feel better now.
    6. Palm's still not out of the financial woods yet. Do you think they're going to make it in the long run?
    1. I personally think we are still a year or two away from the general public starting to ask for more of an immersive gaming experience. For most people video, social networking, and useful apps trump a significant gaming platform. That said, I can't wait to have Palm FINALLY open up the GPU on the Pre.
    2. I think the Pixi fits a great little niche. It's designed to pick up the multitudes of feature phone users that may upgrade to their first smart phone. WebOS is easy to use, and the phone is stylish enough to hit the oddly large group of vanity users that don't really care that much about power or WiFi.
    3. Good question. Palm has always had a very loyal user base, and the wealth of homebrew that popped up rapidly after the release of the Pre only heightens that thought. Without that loyal user base, questions about the future of Palm would certainly play into the phone purchasing decision. Yet a lot will change as the catalog opens up.
    4, 5. LOL.
    6. Yeah, Palm's not doing well, but so many are living "inside the box" regarding Palm's place in the smartphone market simply because the Pre didn't become the "iPhone killer" *gag* It doesn't matter if WebOS is #1 or #4. It doesn't take a huge percentage of the market to make decent money... especially with the growth of the smartphone market over the next few years. When Apple released the iPhone, Steve Jobs was very clear that they would made good money if they had a 2% market share. Add the fact that Palm still has a loyal user base and I don't think Palm is going away. HOWEVER... another cell company may purchase Palm simply for the ability to use WebOS. Palm division would work the OS, purchasing company (Nokia) would make the hardware. This is the one scenario that I could see happening that would nuke Palm as a brand in the next 2-3 years.
    Last edited by edroberts; 12/16/2009 at 09:39 PM. Reason: Added Nokia thought
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by edroberts View Post
    1. I personally think we are still a year or two away from the general public starting to ask for more of an immersive gaming experience. For most people video, social networking, and useful apps trump a significant gaming platform. That said, I can't wait to have Palm FINALLY open up the GPU on the Pre.
    I agree with the GPU being opened up, but I'm not sure yet on the immersive gaming experience. Not every phone user wants the high end graphics or game experience (just like not every phone user wants a smartphone or email or a camera or w/e). I think, at least initially, you'd only want to market a sector of your company towards that, but not alienate those who don't game on their cell phones.
  5. Sayo's Avatar
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    #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by a dumb cat View Post
    WebOS on the HD2? [...] I really feel the HD2 is too large to only be considered a phone anymore. [...] Its a beautiful piece of technology, don't get me wrong, but I still won't be able to fit that in my pocket, let alone look cool with that monster holstered in a belt clip/sleeve.

    Now, if the HD3 keeps the same screen size and resolution and eliminates 90% of the bezel (making the screen take up the entire front face of the device), that would be awesome.
    Err.. I'm not entirely sure I agree there. The HD2, while large, really isn't much bigger than an iPhone, which is very pocketable. And, in fact, my big draw to it IS the incredibly thin bezel it currently has--it's almost entirely screen as is!

    On a separate note, I'm also a bit concerned that the fragmentation in the Android platform may be starting to mirror or even exceed that of Windows Mobile. Though, I suppose that's what you deal with when you avoid the vertical (i.e. Palm, Apple) market structuring; and clearly there is a successful market for it, so maybe there's no need for worry. Eh..
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil750 View Post
    Hey, everybody. Phil here from WMExperts. We're kicking off the third annual Smartphone Round Robin, and in Week 1 I'm looking at Palm's webOS, the Pre and the Pixi.

    Now don't tell anybody at WME that I said this, but that's a pretty darn solid platform you've got there. But that doesn't mean I don't have questions. So, help me out with the following:

    1. Is webOS going to hold up? Sure, it's great for now. But how long until everybody's screaming for immersive gaming and full-on graphics?
    2. The Pixi's a cute little phone, but is the trade-off in power, and the (current) lack of WiFi, a deal-killer?
    3. Homebrew is darn cool, a lot like being able to load custom ROMs on HTC devices. If there was no Homebrew and you were left only with the App Catalog, would you still be on webOS?
    4. webOS on an HTC HD2. Just picture it.
    5. I'm still a little P-Od that Palm killed the Windows Mobile Treo. Had to get that out there. I feel better now.
    6. Palm's still not out of the financial woods yet. Do you think they're going to make it in the long run?


    So throw me a friggin' bone here, OK? I need some help. And remember that anytime you add a post here, you're entered to win a webOS device of your choice. More details on that and plenty more on the third annual Smartphone Round Robin here.
    Okay - I feel qualified to toss a few bones. Palms, a few Visors, then Treo 300, 600, 650, 755p then an 800w and now a Pre

    1) The WebOS will hold up more than fine so long a there is a healthy and vibrant developer community behind it. I was spoiled early on by the vast software packages available for the older PalmOS devices. I watched as that advantage slowly slipped away. Kudos to Palm for recognizing the value of a vibrant developer base and feeding that base by making the device fairly hack-friendly. My primary concern here is from Google's Android OS - there isn't much the WebOS can do that Android (or Apple) soon wouldn't be able to do. The only reason I am not despondent here is that Palm has focus, Apple is too focused on controlling their platform, and Google leaves too much up to the carriers (may change with launch of Google hardware - stay tuned).

    2) Love the Pixi form-factor (growing to resent having to slide the Pre open to access a keyboard - which I'd never give up - but man do I ever want a speedy, non-hacked version of an on-screen keyboard. WiFi crippling on the Pixi by Sprint (or so it seems - especially if VzW's comes with it enabled) caused me to pick a Pre for my wife - even though she'll probably break it. I live in a market where there was no EVDO at the Pixi release and that made it a non-starter.

    3) OUCH! I doubt it. The app catalog is coming along nicely but with the size limit for installed applications being so small, I'd have jumped to the Motorola Droid were it not for Homebrew. Let it be said - I still have app envy, even with the Homebrew.

    4) Interesting notion. But I don't find the form-factor of the HTC HD2 to be that compelling. The Pre is cool to me because it has a big screen but is small. The Pre's form-factor isn't that compelling to me either. Droid's I like (though it is too heavy). iPhone's I love, except I want my physical keyboard. The Pre represents a fair compromise to me.

    5) Could not disagree with you more here. The 800w was the worst device I have ever owned - and please notice, I've had a Treo 300! I blame WinMo for most of my pain. I've never blamed MS for it though, I thought Palm just didn't know what it was doing with it. That said, I must say I am not terribly impressed with WinMo - it just has too much of that "I've been crippled beyond belief to work in this device and still satisfy my creator's need to try to control this space". Come on, trying to use the WiFi on the 800w was a joke compared to the ease on WebOS, iPhone or Android.

    6) Not sure here. You should know I was a big Amiga fan back in the day. I seem to have a knack for adopting products from companies that ultimately die horrid deaths. I believe Google is the threat here, to a lesser extent Apple and remotely Microsoft. I didn't mention RIM because although the email is rock-solid, I believe they've been enjoying some fleeting popularity among folks that don't really care about rock-solid email - they just think BlackBerries are cool. It is worth mention that these would be the same people that change musical genres on a whim too. Yikes RIM, better step it up in the cool dept.
  7. Tacos's Avatar
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    #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by shotyme View Post
    Nice to have you here.

    How are you liking WebOS now? Are you having any issues with your trial?
    Yes! Phil, now that you've had a chance to extensively play with a WebOS phone, and have heard all our opinions, how has your experience been?

    What's the transition like for you between WebOS and Windows Mobile, and what do you find webOS lacking in it's current state?
  8. #128  
    palm web os kicks windows ****! best os yet!!
  9. odoketa's Avatar
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    #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil750 View Post
    The Pixi's a cute little phone, but is the trade-off in power, and the (current) lack of WiFi, a deal-killer?
    I don't have a Pixi, but I do know that I rarely use wifi - I have internet on my phone, and I generally just use that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Phil750 View Post
    Homebrew is darn cool, a lot like being able to load custom ROMs on HTC devices. If there was no Homebrew and you were left only with the App Catalog, would you still be on webOS?
    I can't imagine using a smartphone that wasn't hackable, or have open-source apps. I had an HTC before my Pre, and lived off the open source community.
  10. #130  
    1.) webOS is a major win for Palm. Palm needed to completely restructure their OS to stay relevant and they pulled it off well. Give the OS another year to develop. Palm will release updated SDK's with additional API's, webGL, Java, and more. Palm will develop webOS more quickly than Android and the iPhone evolved. Palm is a little behind now, but not for long.
    2.) I agree with many others that the Pixi form factor is great. I saw the videos of the Pixi going head to head with the Pre, and it held it's own very well. Add wifi back into it like Verizon is (and AT&T will), and it will be what I want.
    3.) Face it, homebrew is way easier than cooking custom roms to add features that you want. It allows you to personalize your device with less risk, and be able to undo your changes. If homebrew was not available, it would just be a matter of a developer releasing a comparable app in the app catalog, or waiting on Palm to add features. It wouldn't be the end of the world. That said, many people like the option to tweak and personalize and homebrew is a great way to get that.
    4.) Palm historically focuses on hardware and software that allows you to get things done efficiently. They have relied entirely on a front facing qwerty keyboard, and I don't expect them to change that outlook for at least another full year. They also seem to now be very focused on how the device feels in the hand, and how it fits in the pocket. The HD2 would never pass in these tests.
    5.) I'm not sad that Palm dropped winmo, but they definitely need to focus more on power business users. The focus on the "fat middle" of the market has focused too much on twitter and facebook, and missed the mark for people that want rock solid email, the ability to edit documents, have real security and data backup, and use it seriously for business. Speed is also critical for someone trying to quickly schedule appointments, so hopefully revisions to the calendar app along with GPU use brings the speed.
    6.) Will Palm make it in the long run? They are the originator of the smartphone market. They have struggled through the desert, and have the talent and leadership that other companies would die to have. The only thing they are currently lacking is cash and volume of employees. I think as they get webOS devices on other US carriers, they will gain the cash that they need and the employees will follow. They will never dominate the smartphone market like they did in the early days, but they will remain relevant.
    Palm Pilot Professional --> TRGPro --> Treo 650 --> Centro (AT&T) + 4 Pixis on Sprint Family Plan
  11. #131  
    Palm's future with Pre/Pixi lies in a couple of its historical greatest strengths: selling units in multiple countries and on multiple carriers. With this strategy they will soon rapidly pick up speed and be in a great position to compete on more even terms with other smartphones.
  12. Cohens's Avatar
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    #132  
    It's the year 2078. We're on planet Sirius 6B, a planet that has been decimated by nuclear war. Oh, and did we mention the screamers?
  13. schwabj's Avatar
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    #133  
    I think that Sprint made a mistake when they released the Pixi without WiFi (seems like Verizon is doing it right). I use it often when I do not have a good connection to EVDO and WiFi is available. It is nice to have the option of WiFi (especially when downloading an update).
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by schwabj View Post
    I think that Sprint made a mistake when they released the Pixi without WiFi (seems like Verizon is doing it right). I use it often when I do not have a good connection to EVDO and WiFi is available. It is nice to have the option of WiFi (especially when downloading an update).
    Sprint make a mistake? Surely not

    But i'm still trying to makes sense of why a carrier wouldn't want wifi on a device and instead have that device slurping data from its network. Especially a device as data hungry as a Pixi.

    Even from a marketing standpoint, the Pre is still very different from a Pixi..even one with wifi. 24bit higher rez wide screen vs a smaller specced screen. Better camera. Slider vs candybar.

    Still waiting for sprint to get a real high end, big screen device. The Pre has poor build resulting in many exchanges/returns. The Hero or Moment (comes close but too small screen) aren't exactly high end android devices, not expecting to receive any updates til middle of next year.

    Rumored androids like the Passion don't mention Sprint. Any new high end Palm device at CES is likely to be focused on verizon.
  15. #135  
    [QUOTE=mike_freegan;2096657]I don't believe those figures that were posted on this site. I know both my local O2 sores have sold barely any, and the all the ones bought on the opening weekend at my local store have been returned. I say 'all'; mine's been returned twice and the other guy who bought one's also broke. 3 sales, all returned is not a great opening weekend.

    [QUOTE]

    I get what you're saying but the fact is that a single data point in an international sales push is basically irrelevant. It's like asking one sales guy out of three hundred and using that to base your success.

    I've always suspected that some locales may be prone to excessive returns due to site-specific factors (e.g. delivery guys who enjoy dropping boxes of smartphones, sales staff who don't mark phone defective and wind up recycling the phones to other people, etc). I know 7 other people who have/had Pres. 3 of them got tired of their release-day Pre's having battery problems, Oreo-ing, etc but I noticed they all bought at the exact same store. The rest of us bought from other stores and have been quite happy with our phones.
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    #136  
    I need a post for today. webOS has the potential to be awesome. Come on Palm release a better SDK and some updates so that this think will be kickin.
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       #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by dslunceford View Post
    5) You kidding me? I won an 800w as a *prize* from Dieter and it was the biggest bag of suck out of all the Treos I ever owned. Capable, yes, but only after tweaking it to the gills. It would be nice, however, to be able to have separate sounds for various alerts the way the WinMob device or old POS Treos would allow.
    Lol. Don't let Malatesta hear you say that. I'd go with the Treo Pro over the 800w, but I also wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. :-/
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by rowehc View Post
    I need a post for today. webOS has the potential to be awesome. Come on Palm release a better SDK and some updates so that this think will be kickin.
    They will. Actually from looking at some of the games that have just been released, I am starting to see developers be rather clever. The animations are smooth, even without using a proper SDK.

    I still think that a binary level SDK is going to be announced at CES. Once that hits, WebOS is going to become very dominant.
    Master Pants, Lord of the Universe, Groupie of Blaize

    Need help with your webOS device? PM me for help!
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    #139  
    I just have a question... what is the difference between the pre the pxie and the pro?

    I have a friend that is confused as to which route to go !
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by djitch View Post
    I just have a question... what is the difference between the pre the pxie and the pro?

    I have a friend that is confused as to which route to go !
    Pre and Pixi are WebOS devices. The Treo Pro is a WinMo phone.

    Pre is more powerful hardware wise than the Pixi.
    Master Pants, Lord of the Universe, Groupie of Blaize

    Need help with your webOS device? PM me for help!
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