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  1. prefab's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil750 View Post
    Hey, everybody. Phil here from WMExperts. We're kicking off the third annual Smartphone Round Robin, and in Week 1 I'm looking at Palm's webOS, the Pre and the Pixi.

    Now don't tell anybody at WME that I said this, but that's a pretty darn solid platform you've got there. But that doesn't mean I don't have questions. So, help me out with the following:

    1. Is webOS going to hold up? Sure, it's great for now. But how long until everybody's screaming for immersive gaming and full-on graphics?
    2. The Pixi's a cute little phone, but is the trade-off in power, and the (current) lack of WiFi, a deal-killer?
    3. Homebrew is darn cool, a lot like being able to load custom ROMs on HTC devices. If there was no Homebrew and you were left only with the App Catalog, would you still be on webOS?
    4. webOS on an HTC HD2. Just picture it.
    5. I'm still a little P-Od that Palm killed the Windows Mobile Treo. Had to get that out there. I feel better now.
    6. Palm's still not out of the financial woods yet. Do you think they're going to make it in the long run?


    So throw me a friggin' bone here, OK? I need some help. And remember that anytime you add a post here, you're entered to win a webOS device of your choice. More details on that and plenty more on the third annual Smartphone Round Robin here.
    Hey Phil,

    Very good questions.

    1. I think WebOS might be around for awhile. Palm has hired some very good talent and hopefully that will lead to continuous improvements in the operating system and hardware platforms. Following these forums, podcasts, and articles it is very clear that the screaming for full-on graphics and utilization of the GPU has already begun not only for gaming but to improve the overall performance of the devices. I am confident with Palm's recent hires that the graphic capabilities will improve.

    2. Agree that the Pixi is a cute little phone and is definitely a trade-off in power. The lack of power and WiFi capabilities of the currently available version from Sprint is definitely a deal-killer for me. However, it may be the right phone for someone.

    3. The homebrew capabilities and community have been a wonderful surprise for me. I would definitely still be on a WebOS device without it. But, the ingenuity of the community and the simplicity of installing apps, patches, and themes have allowed me to easily create a device that is personalized and works for me without the worries of bricking the device. I think that the support of the homebrew community and Palm's support of the developer community is a critical part of Palm's future in the smartphone market.

    4. I seriously considered the HTC HD2 before purchasing the Pre. And that would be one very interesting device. However, form factor did play a part in my decision to purchase a Pre. The Pre is small for a mobile phone and that appealed to me as well as the portrait keyboard. However, I could easily see how a bigger screen and landscape slider would appeal to many.

    5. Yes, I was upset when Mattel dropped the Intellivision video game console, but we all have to move on.

    6. If the number of smartphones sold continue to increase, then Palm should be in it for the long run. They have a competitive and innovative operating system and hardware device.
  2. #42  
    1. I think webOS is solid and will continue to improve. My concern is whether Palm has the manpower to keep up with the competition. What level of effort is the current work taking versus other competitors with more resources to throw at a solution.

    2. I'm not sure the power difference is that big of an issue if the pixi continues to be optimized. Latest rumor is that Verizon version will have wifi which will be a deal breaker for me.

    3. Not sure without homebrew I would stick around to wait...

    4. I'd like to see webOS on other platforms!

    5. I see their strategy getting out of windows mobile phones and focusing their resources. I wasn't happy with the way they treated customers and developers when they moved from palm os to web os, so I understand your frustrations and am a little more hesitant although still want to see Palm succeed.

    6. I want them to succeed, but financially it doesn't look good unless expanded distribution gives them a big boost. I don't see how they will be able to keep up with the pace of development of other larger companies and with more competitors than when they were the only game in town.
  3. cosmo-jack's Avatar
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    #43  
    I've been an avid Blackberry user for some time now, but I have to say the Pre has tempted me for some time. The WebOS is really something special and I think with the right hardware configuration, will be the one to seriously give Apple a run for it's money. Especially with all the software/OS upgrades down the pike.

    I have to say I would definitely like to have a Pre.
  4. Sayo's Avatar
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    #44  
    1. Is webOS going to hold up? Sure, it's great for now. But how long until everybody's screaming for immersive gaming and full-on graphics?
    Oh, the power question of the year right there. Palms fundamentals (though not necessarily financials) are strong. They have a well-received OS and a nice looking product. Where they have stumbled is in the reliability of certain hardware aspects and in the immature nature of the OS; both are easy fixes. The OS infancy will be resolved in time, and so long as Nokia, Mocrosoft, and Blackberry are struggling to find their footing in the modern era of mobile computing, Palm has time.

    2. The Pixi's a cute little phone, but is the trade-off in power, and the (current) lack of WiFi, a deal-killer?
    Yep. but, then again, I'm not one for (most) candybar, hardware keyboard smartphones anymore. The Slider is ideal; however, the pure software-keyboard phone has it's place if the screen is large enough for adult thumbs! The Pixi will have its niche as a free taste of WebOS for current Centro users as well as budget minded individuals who want an introduction to smartphones or simply something flashy.

    3. Homebrew is darn cool, a lot like being able to load custom ROMs on HTC devices. If there was no Homebrew and you were left only with the App Catalog, would you still be on webOS?
    It would have been a more difficult choice. The base WebOS currently lacks quite a few features that the Homebrew supplements--Not simply apps but OS functionality. The app situation is somewhat more fluid. Most app-absence can currently be fixed through Homebrew and web assets. Of course, we ALL want to see the App Catalog expand with more useful programs, but it's been 6 months since hardware release, less than that for apps; I, personally, can give it time to get things right.

    4. webOS on an HTC HD2. Just picture it.
    I'm picturing it, I'm picturing it!

    5. I'm still a little P-Od that Palm killed the Windows Mobile Treo. Had to get that out there. I feel better now.
    Palm simply couldn't have afforded to do both, being such a small company. And Windows Mobile isn't exactly the powerhouse, flashy UI they need to be associated with at the moment. Perhaps next year with Windows Mobile 7.

    6. Palm's still not out of the financial woods yet. Do you think they're going to make it in the long run?
    Ideally. I'm a softy for underdogs, and Palm is trying so strongly to stay ahead of the big players. It would be a shame to see them fade away.
  5. Phil#AC's Avatar
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       #45  
    Wow. You all are incredible. Never expected such great replies, nor so many. Either you all really believe in and care about webOS and Palm that much, or maybe you just want to win a new phone. But either way, keep it up. You're all living up to what Dieter told me to expect.

    Day one of the third annual Smartphone Round Robin down, many more to go.

    - Phil/wmexperts.com
  6. T.E.N.'s Avatar
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    #46  
    1. Is webOS going to hold up? Sure, it's great for now. But how long until everybody's screaming for immersive gaming and full-on graphics?
    2. The Pixi's a cute little phone, but is the trade-off in power, and the (current) lack of WiFi, a deal-killer?
    3. Homebrew is darn cool, a lot like being able to load custom ROMs on HTC devices. If there was no Homebrew and you were left only with the App Catalog, would you still be on webOS?
    4. webOS on an HTC HD2. Just picture it.
    5. I'm still a little P-Od that Palm killed the Windows Mobile Treo. Had to get that out there. I feel better now.
    6. Palm's still not out of the financial woods yet. Do you think they're going to make it in the long run?


    1. I think it's in for the long haul. With the numerous updates already pushed out in the first 6 months of the platfrom, I think it will evolve to fit future (& current) wants/needs.

    2. I'm a Pre fan myself; but I think the Pixi will do well with it's target audience.

    3. Homebrew Is Sweet. (& so are tweaks & hacks!!)

    4. I had Palm OS treos, but I heard that the WinMo Treos we're kind of a pain. (fightin' words; I know!!)

    5. (See #1.)
  7. Sayo's Avatar
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    #47  
    Let's not pack up our bags and leave the thread all at once, there's plenty more to discuss!

    I've read a lot of great opinion in this thread today, much of which I found to be very revealing of Palm's current consumer mind share--there's a lot of valuable advice being exchanged. Now, how about we generate some questions to keep those educational juices flowing.

    Perhaps I'll start with a couple for Phil:

    1. As a Windows Mobile user, how do you characterize the ability of Palm's WebOS platform to accommodate significant and substantial modifications through available homebrew apps, themes and skins.

    2. Both windows Mobile and Palm's WebOS allow app installation outside of official channels. What are your thoughts on centralized App repositories vs. a distributed model? Do you see success and flexibility or confusion and incompatibility?

    3. Finally, what parallels do you see between Windows Mobile and Palm's WebOS?
  8. DRKayak's Avatar
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    #48  
    I am a rabid PalmOS fan still using the Centro on Verizon Wireless waiting for Web OS to come to Verizon. I have to say, I don't have good feelings about Microsoft, but that is just prejudice, not backed by fact as I have never had a WM device.
  9. #49  
    I think there is a place for both distributed and central app access provided the process is simple for the end user. Apple wants to control eveything for the user experience, but the old Palm model of accessing apps showed it can work for the masses distributed as well. Main thing is the apps don't cause crashing issues for the users or can be isolated if they do and that the process is managable for developers. I like the option of getting apps either way.
  10. solarus's Avatar
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    #50  
    1. Is webOS going to hold up? Sure, it's great for now. But how long until everybody's screaming for immersive gaming and full-on graphics?
    I think to be considered along with iPhone, Android, and WM7, full graphics & gaming will have to join the WebOS party. That been said, the iPhone is really the only game in town right now for the kind of gaming you're talking about. With development of GPU and WebGL WebOS should be in the game by the time the other OS's are, if not before. Personally, I'm not convinced advanced gaming on phones is a long term trend yet, we'll know if it is long term when most new releases of console games are ported to iPhone/Android etc...

    2. The Pixi's a cute little phone, but is the trade-off in power, and the (current) lack of WiFi, a deal-killer?
    It is for me but I like Palm's strategy of having more than one smart phone. We now know that in all likelihood it was Sprint that mandated the lack of WiFi for the Pixi (to-be Verizon Pixi has WiFi) and a Pixi with WiFi simply offers a "semi-powerful" device for people who really just need decent mail access.

    3. Homebrew is darn cool, a lot like being able to load custom ROMs on HTC devices. If there was no Homebrew and you were left only with the App Catalog, would you still be on webOS?
    Thats a tough one. I probably would because the implementation of multitasking in WebOS is superior to anything else out there. However, I would be way more anxious for decent apps and probably quite cranky too

    4. webOS on an HTC HD2. Just picture it.
    At 4.3 inches, the HD2 is a little too big for my liking. But I would love to see WebOS on a 3.5 or 3.7 inch screen, just as long as a decent keyboard came along too.

    5. I'm still a little P-Od that Palm killed the Windows Mobile Treo. Had to get that out there. I feel better now.
    I never gave Palm a single look before WebOS.

    6. Palm's still not out of the financial woods yet. Do you think they're going to make it in the long run?
    I think they have a chance to make it by themselves - WebOS v2 and the hardware of the next top of the line device is going to be the deciding factor IMHO. If the Pre2 (whatever you want to call it) turns out to be less than the market thinks it should, then Palm will still survive but only as a subsidiary of a larger player. I think the WebOS IP is too good for someone to pass up.
    Last edited by solarus; 12/15/2009 at 03:05 PM.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil750 View Post
    Wow. You all are incredible. Never expected such great replies, nor so many. Either you all really believe in and care about webOS and Palm that much, or maybe you just But either way, keep it up. You're all living up to what Dieter told me to expect.

    Day one of the third annual
    - Phil/
    Haha. Both really. I'll admit while winning a phone would be nice (but statistically improbable), I've always hoped Palm would make a good comeback. I had a number of Palm Pilots from the 90s that I always messed with, and when they came out, I desperately wanted a Treo. They were just these cool all-in-one devices that did everything for you. So yep, I'm rooting for a Palm and I know webOS will be a definite step in the next decade.
  12. piaband's Avatar
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    #52  
    concerning app development...I would like to know more about Palms new Ares development system. From what i've read, it seems like a peogram that will allow regular, non-programmers to create apps. Is that right? Because if it is, I think that is a big step. I would love to create apps for my own device but I lack the programming skills.

    something else that is off-topic. How does everyone feel about all the updates? They bring some good stuff, but they seem to break more thinga than they fix sometimes. Maybe they need to test the updates a little more before releasing them? I don't know. I like gaining usability but I hate having to set up my phone every time too. It takes atleast an hour to get it all back up and running.
  13. Cohens's Avatar
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    #53  
    I don't really need a phone but a friend of mine does so I'm posting. The questions all have decent answers... Personally the lack of functions without homebrew would deter me despite an otherwise good setup. I tell other Pre users online, in games, and in real life about homebrew and about this forum on a daily basis and the vast majority of Pre users have never heard of or have vaguely heard of but never tried any homebrew so I'm fairly sure most people would wait for Palm to fix it whether homebrew was available or not...
  14. Tacos's Avatar
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    #54  
    Today, I thought I might briefly address a couple of the common complaints people find with Palm's WebOS.

    • With regards to the Pre’s battery life, that is the tradeoff to having a smart operating system that routinely goes online to aggregate the various bits of our personal and professional life into a perfectly usable whole. It is also a sad reflection that even as technology has moved forward at a rapid pace, the batteries that power all kinds of technology have not kept apace.

    • And, as for apps, there are already close to a thousand apps and games available to the webOS a mere six months after it was released, and the numbers can only increase as the Pre and the new Palm Pixi come into more carriers and, consequently, are accessed by more developers!
  15. adobephile's Avatar
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    #55  
    I think that, as a Windows Mobile fan, you'll appreciate the Pre/Pixi, but will not fully convert to it. Windows Mobile is attractive because of its incredible methods of being hacked and changed. webOS trades this power for usability. Android might seem like something you'd rather convert to.

    PS, Pre man here, and I like it.
  16. #56  
    Say What? Webos is SO easy to modify/hack. Preware or any other suitable software makes this OS rise above the others. It's fun to modify and truly make your own. No registry hacks, just push a button. Want it undone, push a button. Hundreds of modifications are available, hundreds of themes.

    If you are not Homebrewing, you are not utilising the potential of this phone!
  17. wkj
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by petbull View Post
    Say What? Webos is SO easy to modify/hack. Preware or any other suitable software makes this OS rise above the others. It's fun to modify and truly make your own. No registry hacks, just push a button. Want it undone, push a button. Hundreds of modifications are available, hundreds of themes.

    If you are not Homebrewing, you are not utilising the potential of this phone!
    +1
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by petbull View Post
    Say What? Webos is SO easy to modify/hack. Preware or any other suitable software makes this OS rise above the others. It's fun to modify and truly make your own. No registry hacks, just push a button. Want it undone, push a button. Hundreds of modifications are available, hundreds of themes.

    If you are not Homebrewing, you are not utilising the potential of this phone!
    I totally agree! there are too many homebrew apps that are an absolute MUST until Palm finishes up the SDK (e.g. Agenda, Brightness Unlinked, Music Remix, DrPodder), and too many Patches that Palm needs to incorporate into webOS (Browser Multi-Mod, USCL Command Line, Confirm Email Delete, and many many more).. I know that I would not be nearly as satisified with a pure Stock Pre without any Homebrew Apps.
  19. #59  
    I've had smartphones for years. This is the 1st Palm that I've owned (technically 3rd since it was replaced from defects a couple of times since June ). This is by far the best smartphone that I've owned and the potential that it has is what keeps me around. It does lack games (which is a big time killer that I need many times). The patches that have been implemented have made this a great customizable phone that is unique to each individual. I only see great things in the future for my Pre. I know Palm has a bleek future according to analysts and financial gurus but even Warren Buffet missed out and made a bad call when it was time to invest in Walmart a few years back . We'll just have to wait and see if this is the saving grace that Palm has been waiting for.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil750 View Post
    Hey, everybody. Phil here from WMExperts. We're kicking off the third annual Smartphone Round Robin, and in Week 1 I'm looking at Palm's webOS, the Pre and the Pixi.

    Now don't tell anybody at WME that I said this, but that's a pretty darn solid platform you've got there. But that doesn't mean I don't have questions. So, help me out with the following:

    1. Is webOS going to hold up? Sure, it's great for now. But how long until everybody's screaming for immersive gaming and full-on graphics?
    2. The Pixi's a cute little phone, but is the trade-off in power, and the (current) lack of WiFi, a deal-killer?
    3. Homebrew is darn cool, a lot like being able to load custom ROMs on HTC devices. If there was no Homebrew and you were left only with the App Catalog, would you still be on webOS?
    4. webOS on an HTC HD2. Just picture it.
    5. I'm still a little P-Od that Palm killed the Windows Mobile Treo. Had to get that out there. I feel better now.
    6. Palm's still not out of the financial woods yet. Do you think they're going to make it in the long run?


    So throw me a friggin' bone here, OK? I need some help. And remember that anytime you add a post here, you're entered to win a webOS device of your choice. More details on that and plenty more on the third annual Smartphone Round Robin here.
    1. Gaming and graphics are cool and all. Not sure about everyone else but if I want to play graphic games I go to a real computer, even if my phone could to it too. I think the GPU enabled will come soon, and mainly for the most of us just provide a nicer smoother UI, not really into phone gaming.

    2. Pixi without Wi-Fi is definitely a deal breaker for me thus far. I think Sprint had a lot to do with that in order to offer it at a much lower initial cost then the Pre. BUT with that said...looks like Verizon and/or ATT will be getting the Pixi WITH Wi-Fi?!?! So if that holds true, the Pixi will probably get a boost in sales way over the Pre just for the main reason of a candybar phone with a cheap $$$ tag.

    3. Homebrew is AWESOME, thx to all who have spent the time to do this thus far. BUT I would not ditch WebOS without it, everything takes time, and Palm will eventually get most the stuff done in Homebrew made official.

    4. ONly thing I would change about for the Pre 2 would be to have a more sturdy casing, so in short hardware build quality. Maybe a glass screen etc. JUST make sure to leave the physical keyboard. THe IPhone onscreen keybaord is CRAP to type on.

    5. TRUE...Treo line was (and still is somewhat) the best line of hardware Palm ever made. BUT WinMo kinda stinks in the ways of having to get precise with touching the screen...basically puts you back in the days of a stylist. I almost got a HTC Touch Pro before the Pre existed and glad I didnt. When I demoed it I could not get the right things to pop up the first tap, and the hardware was crap too. Before the Pre I had a Treo 650 since launch day with Palm OS....let me tell you, that thing was a tank and worked flawlessly while taking a beating!

    6. Palm will make it financially. Like Ruby said, there is room for 5 in the market, dont havet o be first to make money. BUT Palm back at the #1 spot would kick *****!


    Overall though, the Pre is an excellent phone and WebOS is ahead of its time at the moment. I would not trade any other phone or platform for what Palm is doing here.....call me a Palm/Pre/WebOS fan-boy if you like...but I am here to stay!
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