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  1. gbp
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    #81  
    Wow
    "The problem is in the model. Android updates seed out through carriers, over the air or with special installers. This is because the updates are their responsibility: once handset manufacturers (and carriers, through handset manufacturers) have built their own version of Android, they've effectively taken it out of the development stream. Updating is it their responsibility, which they have to choose to uphold. Or not! Who cares? The phones are already sold. And there's very little to motivate a carrier to update their Android phones, because the consequences of not doing tend to fall on Google: If Android fragments, the App Market doesn't work. The public sours. Android starts to suck. This is where the Nexus One comes in."

    I am not sure how much of it ("Android updates seed out through carriers, over the air or with special installers. This is because the updates are their responsibility: ") is true, but it it plays out the way article describes.

    Good luck seeing CARDs on Android.
    Opps , my bad , you might see them on few devices and not on others.
  2. gbp
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    #82  
    While I tinkered with HERO , I am yet to check out DRIOD.
    I am sure the Google Navigation will take another 6 months to be available on HERO.
  3. Helidos's Avatar
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    #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    My money would be on current dev / another dev.

    The homebrew community is going to have a video recorder before Palm...
    Yes home brew has already gotten video recorder working yes the current dev has many more feature he could add but those feature use api not in the sdk they can not be pushed out on over the app catalog once palm releases more api's then the home screen issue will be bunk.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    While I tinkered with HERO , I am yet to check out DRIOD.
    I am sure the Google Navigation will take another 6 months to be available on HERO.
    I dunno about Sprint's plans, but I know the Droid Eris is getting 2.0 early 2010. One would hope Sprint wouldn't be too far behind. I used to think Telenav was the s... Till I tried Google Nav with Satellite view on, you just can't beat that!
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by helidos View Post
    Yes home brew has already gotten video recorder working yes the current dev has many more feature he could add but those feature use api not in the sdk they can not be pushed out on over the app catalog once palm releases more api's then the home screen issue will be bunk.
    The home screen issue will be bunk? Do you really think Palm plans on changing that? An amazing amount of speculation there.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Wow
    "The problem is in the model. Android updates seed out through carriers, over the air or with special installers. This is because the updates are their responsibility: once handset manufacturers (and carriers, through handset manufacturers) have built their own version of Android, they've effectively taken it out of the development stream. Updating is it their responsibility, which they have to choose to uphold. Or not! Who cares? The phones are already sold. And there's very little to motivate a carrier to update their Android phones, because the consequences of not doing tend to fall on Google: If Android fragments, the App Market doesn't work. The public sours. Android starts to suck. This is where the Nexus One comes in."

    I am not sure how much of it ("Android updates seed out through carriers, over the air or with special installers. This is because the updates are their responsibility: ") is true, but it it plays out the way article describes.

    Good luck seeing CARDs on Android.
    Opps , my bad , you might see them on few devices and not on others.
    I read the article and I see where they are coming from, but I really don't like the website it's coming from. I ask this. What if 2.1 dropped next month, what type of discussion would we have then? These things are not here yet but everyone is trying to say it's not gonna happen or you'll see it in six months. Palm promised a video camera.....where is that and where is even word that they are working on it. We have confirmation from htc that 2.1 is coming to the sprint htc hero. That's enough for me. When it gets here, it does.
  7. gbp
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    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by THETRUTH View Post
    I read the article and I see where they are coming from, but I really don't like the website it's coming from. I ask this. What if 2.1 dropped next month, what type of discussion would we have then? These things are not here yet but everyone is trying to say it's not gonna happen or you'll see it in six months. Palm promised a video camera.....where is that and where is even word that they are working on it. We have confirmation from htc that 2.1 is coming to the sprint htc hero. That's enough for me. When it gets here, it does.
    Actually Gizmodo is late to the news about Android "fragmentation". Many tech websites wrote about it sometime back.

    The question here is not about HTC working on 2.1 rather , Moto came out with 2.1 while HTC is on 1.5 for SPRINT HERO , while TMobile MyTouch is at 1.6.

    If you give a serious thought version management is a serious issue.
    On top of it , APP comparability will be nightmarish.
    I be mad as a customer if I I get a 1.5 device while in a month the other carrier is selling a 2.1 device.

    Google realized that they dropped the ball , hence the NEXUS.
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Actually Gizmodo is late to the news about Android "fragmentation". Many tech websites wrote about it sometime back.

    The question here is not about HTC working on 2.1 rather , Moto came out with 2.1 while HTC is on 1.5 for SPRINT HERO , while TMobile MyTouch is at 1.6.

    If you give a serious thought version management is a serious issue.
    On top of it , APP comparability will be nightmarish.
    I be mad as a customer if I I get a 1.5 device while in a month the other carrier is selling a 2.1 device.

    Google realized that they dropped the ball , hence the NEXUS.
    Moto is on 2.0.1, and was on 2.0 on launch of the Droid... Verizon's own HTC Droid Eris is only on 1.5 or 1.6(I forget which), so it's not as much a carrier thing as a manufacturer thing.

    It's also not Google's doing, at all, it's manufacturers, like I just said. Google dropped no ball besides offering Android free of charge. They offer it free, it's up to the manufacturers to adapt it to their hardware, NOT Google. And as far as anyone knows for fact right now, the Nexus One is an HTC phone, until rumors are actually confirmed, take them with a grain of salt.
  9. gbp
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    #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    Moto is on 2.0.1, and was on 2.0 on launch of the Droid... Verizon's own HTC Droid Eris is only on 1.5 or 1.6(I forget which), so it's not as much a carrier thing as a manufacturer thing.

    It's also not Google's doing, at all, it's manufacturers, like I just said. Google dropped no ball besides offering Android free of charge. They offer it free, it's up to the manufacturers to adapt it to their hardware, NOT Google. And as far as anyone knows for fact right now, the Nexus One is an HTC phone, until rumors are actually confirmed, take them with a grain of salt.
    BB and APPLE were successful because they control the UI and other software.

    Sure its up to the hardware manufacturers on what models they upgrade.
    But the phones have to be tested with carrier prior to the upgrades.
    So carrier is involved too. Carrier wants to make sure the device won't screwed up by the new update.

    Google dropped the ball on controlling the user experience. They want to limit the damage so they asked to HTC make Nexus for them.
    The Nexus will be a model device for the ODMs to design their devices.

    HTC made Nexus but Google will control the software on it. It will be guinea pig for Google engineers
  10. #90  
    Keep grabbing at your isolated and out-of-context points in a desperate attempt to defend webOS/Palm.

    It's not a "SERIOUS ISSUE". The fragmentation is overblown and predictive hype at this point. Even fragmented, Android is a more robust and feature rich OS.

    Is it a concern? Possibly for the future. Time will tell.

    But what is a SERIOUS ISSUE... is Palm not having the ability to enable the GPU present on the Pre and utilize it or deliver a SDK with API's for the entire hardware feature set of the Palm Pre (in a timely manner).

    It's mind boggling that you think this "fragmentation" is more of an issue for Android than Palm's ability to support a device that they designed both the hardware and software for. That would (and does) concern me even more than anything.

    It's their device from the ground up and in every aspect... AND THEY STILL CANNOT SUPPORT IT PROPERLY.

    C'mon man...
    Last edited by gmanvbva; 12/16/2009 at 04:16 PM.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    BB and APPLE were successful because they control the UI and other software.

    Sure its up to the hardware manufacturers on what models they upgrade.
    But the phones have to be tested with carrier prior to the upgrades.
    So carrier is involved too. Carrier wants to make sure the device won't screwed up by the new update.

    Google dropped the ball on controlling the user experience. They want to limit the damage so they asked to HTC make Nexus for them.
    The Nexus will be a model device for the ODMs to design their devices.

    HTC made Nexus but Google will control the software on it. It will be guinea pig for Google engineers
    Google is not out to control the user experience, they provide the platform for other companies to build on it, if they choose. That is the genius behind Android, it is completely customizable, and the end user experience is up to the manufacturer, and ultimately can even be up to the user themselves. You're also still taking rumors as fact, when there is no concrete evidence yet, be careful with that.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    Keep grabbing at your isolated and out-of-context points in a desperate attempt to defend webOS/Palm.

    It's not a "SERIOUS ISSUE". The fragmentation is overblown and predictive hype at this point. Even fragmented, Android is a more robust and feature rich OS.

    Is it a concern? Possibly for the future. Time will tell.

    But what is a SERIOUS ISSUE... is Palm not having the ability to enable the GPU present on the Pre and utilize it or deliver a SDK with API's for the entire hardware feature set of the Palm Pre (in a timely manner).

    It's mind boggling that you think this "fragmentation" is more of an issue for Android than Palm's ability to support a device that they designed both the hardware and software for. That would (and does) concern me even more than anything.

    It's their device from the ground up and in every aspect... AND THEY STILL CANNOT SUPPORT IT PROPERLY.

    C'mon man...
    You're absolutely right.
  13. gbp
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    #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    Keep grabbing at your isolated and out-of-context points in a desperate attempt to defend webOS/Palm.

    It's not a "SERIOUS ISSUE". The fragmentation is overblown and predictive hype at this point. Even fragmented, Android is a more robust and feature rich OS.

    Is it a concern? Possibly for the future. Time will tell.

    But what is a SERIOUS ISSUE... is Palm not having the ability to enable the GPU present on the Pre and utilize it or deliver a SDK with API's for the entire hardware feature set of the Palm Pre (in a timely manner).

    It's mind boggling that you think this "fragmentation" is more of an issue for Android than Palm's ability to support a device that they designed both the hardware and software for. That would (and does) concern me even more than anything.

    C'mon man...
    Hey I am not reading some story and overblowing "fragmentation" here.
    It was predicted and written all over the web(inclugin the latest Gizmo).
    I do not buy into them just by reading, what I will look at is current customer base and their options.The SPRINT customers ( both who purchased Hero and who are ready to upgrade to a smart phone soon) feel deprived of few features. because of this inconsistency.

    Lets talk about why few features are inconsistent.

    Multitouch is vailable on a device (HERO) with old version and missing in the latest version (Droid with 2.01).
    You could say its because one is made by HTC and the other is MOTO.
    You could throw in the Carrier element (one is SPRINT and the other is Verizon.

    What about SAMSUNG Moment ? Its on the SPRINT network , its Android 1.5 , Its released at the same time as HERO, yet it doesn't have multi touch.

    Lets not talk about the necessity or popularity of multitouch, lets talk about why is it missing in one phone while its on the other.
    Simply because Google left it to folks ( whoever it is).

    You might say its because plain android 1.5 didn't have it and SAMSUNG didn't care while HTC cared. SONY now planning couple of handsets which have another UI (their own skin).

    As a developer how do you want to address this multitouch issue ? do you assume that multitouch is available and use it in your APP. ? or try to code around based on the handset ?

    I am not saying Andriod will die (then I must be living under the rock), but the innovation will slow. If you let Google alone to run the Android thing , sure they do great job. But the whole notion getting best of everything is good in theory not practical. When you see issues with software , the blame game will start. Google will say its not their problem, its HTC skin and HTC says its not theirs, its Google's code.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post

    It's their device from the ground up and in every aspect... AND THEY STILL CANNOT SUPPORT IT PROPERLY.
    I agree with you PALM did drop the ball on few things ( folks have their own rants about hardware , video recording .... and oh PIM and such).
    But they are dedicated to work on this mobile thing. As long as they have money ( or start making money) they can be up there with APPLES and RIMMS. Do you think PALM will loose from here ?
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Hey I am not reading some story and overblowing "fragmentation" here.
    It was predicted and written all over the web(inclugin the latest Gizmo).
    I do not buy into them just by reading, what I will look at is current customer base and their options.The SPRINT customers ( both who purchased Hero and who are ready to upgrade to a smart phone soon) feel deprived of few features. because of this inconsistency.

    Lets talk about why few features are inconsistent.







    Multitouch is vailable on a device (HERO) with old version and missing in the latest version (Droid with 2.01).
    You could say its because one is made by HTC and the other is MOTO.
    You could throw in the Carrier element (one is SPRINT and the other is Verizon.

    What about SAMSUNG Moment ? Its on the SPRINT network , its Android 1.5 , Its released at the same time as HERO, yet it doesn't have multi touch.

    Lets not talk about the necessity or popularity of multitouch, lets talk about why is it missing in one phone while its on the other.
    Simply because Google left it to folks ( whoever it is).

    You might say its because plain android 1.5 didn't have it and SAMSUNG didn't care while HTC cared. SONY now planning couple of handsets which have another UI (their own skin).

    As a developer how do you want to address this multitouch issue ? do you assume that multitouch is available and use it in your APP. ? or try to code around based on the handset ?

    I am not saying Andriod will die (then I must be living under the rock), but the innovation will slow. If you let Google alone to run the Android thing , sure they do great job. But the whole notion getting best of everything is good in theory not practical. When you see issues with software , the blame game will start. Google will say its not their problem, its HTC skin and HTC says its not theirs, its Google's code.



    I agree with you PALM did drop the ball on few things ( folks have their own rants about hardware , video recording .... and oh PIM and such).
    But they are dedicated to work on this mobile thing. As long as they have money ( or start making money) they can be up there with APPLES and RIMMS. Do you think PALM will loose from here ?
    Multitouch can be enabled in apps regardless. Look at the Droid, there are 2 browsers that support multitouch for it, as well as photo apps galore. Multitouch was only left out on the Droid in the default browser, it very much works.
  15. Minsc's Avatar
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    #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysian893 View Post
    Google is not out to control the user experience, they provide the platform for other companies to build on it, if they choose. That is the genius behind Android, it is completely customizable, and the end user experience is up to the manufacturer, and ultimately can even be up to the user themselves. You're also still taking rumors as fact, when there is no concrete evidence yet, be careful with that.
    Definitely, however as a long-time WinMo guy I remember much of the blame for WM's problems being directed at exactly this model - Microsoft builds the base OS and allows (expects, really) the OEM's to build their own interfaces on top of it. Hence, versioning problems and non-consistent user experiences across the platform. Even though Microsoft really expected the OEM's to take the initiative and build their own experience around WM, most end users who had a sour experience blame Microsoft, not the handset maker.

    All that being said, it's waaaay to early to condemn Android to the same fate. But it is something to watch, and will be interesting to see what Android looks like in 2 years or so. I for one like this model, because as a geek it gives me many choices. But for the average consumer it has the potential to be problematic.
  16. #96  
    Motorola Backflip / Enzo bringing Android contortions to AT&T -- Engadget

    Just when we though this decade had run short on phone form factors, Motorola comes along to blow our minds with this new Backflip / Enzo / Motus device. Amazingly, the most interesting part of this device might not even be the reverse hinge design, which flips the keyboard back behind the screen and faces out when not in use, but the fact that there's a clear-as-day AT&T logo on it -- something we'd heard rumored, but dared not believe until we saw it with our own eyes. The rest of the leaked photos go on to corroborate earlier rumors: there's a touchpad on the back of the keyboard to aid in no-look scrolling, it's running Blur on top of Android 1.5 (with a few AT&T apps, Yahoo search and no Gmail), and it runs the same 528MHz processor as the CLIQ
    Motorola Backflip/Enzo Pictures & Details! | Android Phone Fans

    Oh yay. Another android. This time its by Moto and called Backflip? 1.5, Blur, and no gmail? No gmail on a google device? That's genius. AT&T thoughtfully put Yahoo search on it?? In fact, no google apps but Maps.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Motorola Backflip / Enzo bringing Android contortions to AT&T -- Engadget



    Motorola Backflip/Enzo Pictures & Details! | Android Phone Fans

    Oh yay. Another android. This time its by Moto and called Backflip? 1.5, Blur, and no gmail? No gmail on a google device? That's genius. AT&T thoughtfully put Yahoo search on it?? In fact, no google apps but Maps.
    LOL
  18. gbp
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    #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Motorola Backflip / Enzo bringing Android contortions to AT&T -- Engadget



    Motorola Backflip/Enzo Pictures & Details! | Android Phone Fans

    Oh yay. Another android. This time its by Moto and called Backflip? 1.5, Blur, and no gmail? No gmail on a google device? That's genius. AT&T thoughtfully put Yahoo search on it?? In fact, no google apps but Maps.
    hmm, you are overblowing fragmentation
  19. #99  
    Fragmentation is a major concern for Android and anybody who thinks it's a minor or non-existent concern is just wrong.

    The issue is not the OS, but apps. Apps drive smartphone sales, and the idea that Google is going to be able to keep their app catalog compatible across countless versions, hardware specs, and UIs for long is just silly. The phone market moves far too fast for that, unless you control and limit your hardware as Apple, Palm and BB do. You think people complain about the Pre? Just wait until people start pulling their BRAND NEW Android phones out of the box and find that many of the coolest/most useful apps won't work with their phone because the handset maker is using an ancient revision of the OS, or has some wonky hardware or a custom UI? That day is coming fast...we've seen this movie before, only then it was called "Windows Mobile".

    Google's only hope is that they can keep the handset makers relatively in line in terms of keeping their OS versions current and not overly customized. That's exactly what the Nexus One is for...provide a developer baseline and flagship model and hope the other manufacturers will fall in line. Google doesn't do hardware, and the fact that they've broken that rule in this instance shows how concerned they are about it. It sure isn't cause they want to get in the handset selling business.

    None of this in any way diminishes the issues Palm has or the challenges it faces, but there is a critical difference. Because Palm controls both the hardware and the software, they have total control and will succeed or fail based on how good a job they do. Android's success is almost totally in the hands of the manufacturers. The OS will live or die based on how well the manufacturers (and to some degree the carriers) implement it. Google can nudge, they can cajole, but at the end of the day it's out of their hands. Again, we've seen this movie before with WinMo, and it didn't end well.
  20. gbp
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    #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by idontwan2know View Post
    Fragmentation is a major concern for Android and anybody who thinks it's a minor or non-existent concern is just wrong.
    hello,
    I was being sarcastic, I agree with you and cardfan totally.
    Folks who argue here about how Android will get the best of the features are living in dreams. They do not know the WinMo history.

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