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  1. mhc48#CB's Avatar
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    #61  
    Originally posted by Toby
    Yes, on _VisorCentral_. What would bring someone to a site devoted to a particular maker of PDAs to advocate PPCs? The implication would seem to either be that one is trolling, or that one actually has/had a use for Visors that a PPC couldn't fulfill. Again, I'm just curious at someone else's motivation when there's no obvious connection.
    or that Visors had uses which PPCs may be now fulfilling better.

    Read my responses above. I own Visors. I use them. I read this board, I read PPC boards and I read lots of other types related and unrelated to computing. I'm not advocating PPCs or trolling. I'm advocating that Palm and HS address significant parts of their market they may be losing. Not only because of the multimedia functions to be had on PPC (and Palm OS Sony) but because PPCs also now work effectively as PIMs, and in my experience, work as well or better. PS, they execute faster and more seamlessly from storage cards than my Visor does.

    Even if they are not "as good" a PIM in some peoples' opinion, but are almost as good as, and have other features and conveniences. That is a significant achievement and something of interest (I would think) to Palm OS owners.

    Are they perfect? Heck no. Battery power is still poor, my Prism screen is still brighter and there is a lessening but still existing price difference (original cost and software). There are other failings too. But why would I want to post about them here??? I'm not advocating for them.My purpose is to trade information with other Palm OS owners about potential things we might be asking Palm and HS for and about and about what direction they are heading.
    -Michael-
  2. #62  
    Originally posted by MHCohn
    Toby, arguing that you wouldn't want the extra bells and whistles is fine when you're merely discussing your own personal preference for a PDA.
    "Well, that's mighty white of you."
    But I wasn't arguing for or trying to convince you to buy a PPC.
    And I wasn't referring to you in that statement.
    'Course that assumes that you're satisfied with it's basic essential PIM functions. OKay, now you're not, you think that it's overly complicated and doesn't handle those basic operations as well as Palm does. Fine.
    'Complicated' would not be a word I'd use.
    But that too is a personal preference and opinion nothing more nothing less.
    And why exactly would you think that _your_ opinion would have any more weight?
    I used to agree with that. But recently I tried the new OS and find it much better.
    I think it's improved as well. It still seems to have a ways to go, though, but Microsoft is probably too enamored of their extending the existing desktop OS interface for it to go far enough.
    And it integrates perfectly with my office Outlook, right out of the box whereas with my Prism I had to go out and buy Desktop to Go. For me...easier simpler.
    Fine. But that too is a personal preference and opinion nothing more nothing less.
    And I don't need to buy Docs to Go or Wordsmith to integrate with Word or Excel.
    In case you haven't noticed, those are starting to be included with Palms, Sonys, and Handeras.
    So for me it works as a PIM and has the bells and whistles you may not need, and I don't need, but if they are there I will use. And don't look now but the price difference on many of the available PPCs are not that much more than higher end Palm OS units.
    Actually, I _am_ looking now, have been for a while, and will likely continue to look.
    Simple fact is, without wanting to incite Jihad on any side, MS has --in my opinion-- made more strides recently than Palm and HS.
    Ahh...but they needed to.
    Now you may not care about my opinion, but given my buying habits and those of my colleagues I influence or buy for, I'll bet Palm and Handspring do care.
    I doubt that they care any more about yours than they do mine.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  3. #63  
    Originally posted by MHCohn
    Read my responses above. I own Visors. I use them. I read this board, I read PPC boards and I read lots of other types related and unrelated to computing. I'm not advocating PPCs or trolling. [...]
    If you'll read _my_ post again, you'll notice that I wasn't talking _to_you_ with that original statement, so you're mixing contexts. This tendency to assume that anything I say in this thread refers to you even when there is no evidence to support it is rather frustrating, and comes off as a bit egotistical.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  4. mhc48#CB's Avatar
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    #64  
    Originally posted by Toby
    I doubt that they care any more about yours than they do mine.
    Well, then that is a problem. Not only do I buy for myself and family, but my office and I consult for other attorneys. When I do, I'm beginning to feel with PDAs the way I used to when I tried to explain how much better WordPerfect was than MS Word.
    -Michael-
  5. #65  
    Originally posted by MHCohn
    Well, then that is a problem.
    How so?
    Not only do I buy for myself and family, but my office and I consult for other attorneys.
    And I buy for/give advice to myself, friends, family, and the company I work for, as well as business colleagues.
    When I do, I'm beginning to feel with PDAs the way I used to when I tried to explain how much better WordPerfect was than MS Word.
    Ahh...but Word had an unfair advantage (just as Excel did WRT Lotus). The thing that killed both of them was poor implementation in Windows for the first iterations. Despite whatever my beliefs may be about whether Microsoft is truly a monopoly, there is no denying that their producing the new Operating Environment was definitely in their favor when writing office applications for it.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  6. mhc48#CB's Avatar
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    #66  
    Originally posted by Toby
    Ahh...but Word had an unfair advantage (just as Excel did WRT Lotus). The thing that killed both of them was poor implementation in Windows for the first iterations. Despite whatever my beliefs may be about whether Microsoft is truly a monopoly, there is no denying that their producing the new Operating Environment was definitely in their favor when writing office applications for it.
    Sorry but I have to disagree with you there too. WP always worked fine in every iteration of Windows (despite MS best efforts to thwart it). The advantage was initially the tie in to the system and later the [usually copycat] improvements to Word coupled with vast monetary advantages and productivity program and infrastructure hooks. The successive changes of ownership didn't help either. Those advantages still exist, perhaps to an even greater extent within the context of a Palm vs PPC battle. In spite of what you may think from the course of this thread, I'd really hate to have to be on the losing, lost cause, better system but tragically less successful end again.
    -Michael-
  7. #67  
    Originally posted by MHCohn


    Sorry but I have to disagree with you there too. WP always worked fine in every iteration of Windows (despite MS best efforts to thwart it). The advantage was initially the tie in to the system and later the [usually copycat] improvements to Word coupled with vast monetary advantages and productivity program and infrastructure hooks. The successive changes of ownership didn't help either. Those advantages still exist, perhaps to an even greater extent within the context of a Palm vs PPC battle. In spite of what you may think from the course of this thread, I'd really hate to have to be on the losing, lost cause, better system but tragically less successful end again.
    WordPerfect did always seem to work fine, but the advantage to the Microsoft Applications (all apps, not just the Office Suite) is/was the ability to integrate with the OS.

    Despite all of this though, the greatest downfall for other companies is simply the mentality of the average consumer. "If I have a Microsoft OS, then all these products must work better because Microsoft makes them also."

    Unfortunately, there might be some truth to this. Not in the fact that Microsoft makes superior software, but simply they hold all the cards.
    In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. JOHN 14:2
  8. #68  
    Originally posted by MHCohn
    Sorry but I have to disagree with you there too. WP always worked fine in every iteration of Windows (despite MS best efforts to thwart it).
    I'm not talking about the program crashing necessarily. I'm talking about functionality and migration. I never met a WordPerfect 5.1 user that didn't have to relearn nearly everything they knew when they made the move to Windows. Lotus 123 was an even worse implementation since significant portions of its functionality were lost in the move to Windows 9x (since there were stability problems with the Win3.x version in some situations).
    The advantage was initially the tie in to the system and later the [usually copycat] improvements to Word coupled with vast monetary advantages and productivity program and infrastructure hooks.
    Those are the exact unfair advantages to which I'm referring.
    The successive changes of ownership didn't help either.
    Those seem to be caused more by their handicaps rather than an additional cause to lack of direction.
    Those advantages still exist, perhaps to an even greater extent within the context of a Palm vs PPC battle. [...]
    They certainly still exist, but Microsoft's actions have never been under quite the degree of scrutiny under which they are right now. Add to that the growing vibe that I've been getting from people being tired of running around the upgrade hamster wheel, and Microsoft may not be in the catbird seat for long.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9. #69  
    You gotta also consider the price of a PPC. VERY few people will shell out $600 to get a handheld. You could get a decent desktop for that price. And on core functions, you can compare a $200 Clie or Visor to a $600 iPAQ. The Clie or Visor can be just as powerful by adding the software you need. If you don't need Docs to Go, don't add it. If you don't need a great datebook or addressbook, don't add it. You have options, and you can stay cheap. If PPC comes into my range, I'm not talking about those old Casio's or HP's, then I'll be considering it as an alternative. Bottom line, PPCs are too expensive for many people. You GET everything already. You can't add ONLY what you want. The majority of handheld users don't want/need multimedia. That's the only edge PPC has on Palm. Sure, PPC is great, but it comes at a cost. Sort of like Apple computers, though they're getting cheaper...and better. Unlike PPC, the cheap ones suck...haha
    nelson.hsieh
    good artists copy, great artists steal. . .
  10. #70  
    We aren't talking about core funtions necessarily, and PPC has more than just multimedia, you have better internet connectivity, better for Ebooks (MS Reader is a resource hog, but there's a great selection avaliable.)

    Also, PPC's aren't too expensive, you can get a PPC 2002 AudioVox Maestro (Toshiba e570) right now for $300. For that price you get SD/MMC and CF expansion, 206 MHz processor, 16 bit screen, and one of the only PPC's that's small enough to fit in a shirt pocket. The only problem is that you only get 32 MB of memory instead of 64. But even if you factor in the cost of a name-brand 128 MB CF card, the cost only goes up to about $380, still cheaper than a Clie, with alot more features, and more additional storage.
  11. mhc48#CB's Avatar
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    #71  
    $300 for an Audiovox which is essentially the Toshiba with 32 mg instead of 64 is a great price.

    I'd be on my way out to Staples or CompUSA now if Toshiba had not announced their new PPC with the Intel XScale Architecture (400 mhz) for Q2. PDA buzz has shown pictures of the rumoured device which is supposed to be out in March or April. This may be a hoax or premature, but since Toshiba is not currently distributing in consumer channels, the price drop on the Maestro may be more evidence that the new unit is soon to be on it's way. Anyway, it's enough to keep me waiting.

    BTW, there's also speculation that the companion new Toshiba which will also come out at the same time will be Palm OS
    -Michael-
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