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  1.    #1  
    Okay so I now have a Pre and a Hero.

    The Pre:
    I was so excited for this device to hit store shelves. I couldn't stop thinking about the Pre for months. I knew how to use the pre before I even had one. So I got in line and waited (at 3am).. Got the phone.. Boom, hit a snag. Had two huge round distortion circles arond the bottom. Crap, go back, they gave me another one.. 8 dead pixels.. yes 8. Took that back, had to wait a week to get another one.. 4 dead pixels and an oreo keyboard. Called Palm, they sent me one, 1 dead pixel and a little wobble.

    So I dealt with the poor build quality and started to really customize my pre.. heres what I liked.

    1) The multi-tasking is phenomenal on the pre. Effortless and smooth.
    2) The swooping back in forth using the gesture area. GREAT
    3) Easy to use OS
    4) Web Browser GREAT
    5) Screen is very responsive.
    6) Great CPU

    What I didnt like.
    1) Palm.. They annoy me to death. I love how their updates are so small and minor. At the rate they are going, expect a fully functional Smart phone in 2012.
    2) App catalog is a joke. Basically what you have is an application pulling information from the web.. basically mirroring anything that you could easily pull up on the web browser.
    3) Build quality is a joke. Period.
    4) The OS gets boring. There really is only so much you can do. Customization is extremely limited.
    5) GPU. Yes I know the webgpu is coming.. Umm.. hope you like playing games in a browser. This doesn't help battery life nor speed up general OS functions, all processes will still be held on the CPU.
    6) Limited memory, 8GB can be gone through quickly.
    7) No compass, trust me, after having the Moment and Hero, this is so useful, more then you'd ever think.
    8) Can't get a calendar to open quickly? Are you kidding me? Waiting 10secs for your calendar.. Joke

    Basically the Pre has a lot of potential if Palm ups things. They had a unique device for about a month, then came a lot of other devices that have more functions. Palm really disappointed me.. I guess thats it.

    The HTC Hero:
    So I had my Palm Pre and I was getting real sick of waiting around for a fully function smart phone that wasn't behind in functions compared to other smart phones. I went to the Sprint store and played with it and out of desperation I purchased it.

    What I liked:
    1) Sense UI is UNREAL.. Amazing. Everything in one click.
    2) Apps are useful, amazing, and most are free.
    3) Has a compass. Great feature for navigation.
    4) Fast, even though it has a slower CPU then Pre, its still snappier.
    6) The calendar opens instantly, no waiting
    7) Most programs open instantly
    8) GPU is fully used
    9) Customization is unreal. I can do anything to my Hero to make it MY phone.
    10) Everything is synced to a cloud, just like the pre, in fact, better then the Pre. I get constant facebook updates (through the widget and through my Address book).
    11) No build quality problems. Solid and works. No dead pixels, no squeaking. (I know it doesn't have a slider).
    12) Email is far superior to the Pres.

    What I hate:
    1) There is multi-tasking, but its a bit rough around the edges.
    2) No way to really "Close" a program w/ out a 3rd party program
    3) Camera sucks, period. 5MP my ***
    4) Browser isn't close to as good as the Pre
    5) Screen isn't as responsive
    6) OS does take a LOT of time to learn
    7) On Screen keyboard isn't that great
  2. #2  
    You forgot to mention the joke of a media player on the Hero. You also forgot to mention the lack of a keyboard on the Hero. The lag on the Hero is pretty bad as well. You pretty much need to reboot it every day to keep it fast. How about exchange sync and lack of synergy?

    BTW, how many updates have you had on your Hero so far?? I guess you will have to hate Google too.
    Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 ->Palm Pilot Professional -> HP 620LX -> TRG Pro -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm M505 -> Palm i705 -> Palm Tungsten|T -> Samsung i500 -> Treo 600->Treo 650 -> Treo 600-> Treo 700p ->Centro ->Treo 800w + Redfly C8n -> Palm Pre -> HP Touchpad
    R.I.P Palm 1996-2011
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by rc46 View Post
    You forgot to mention the joke of a media player on the Hero. You also forgot to mention the lack of a keyboard on the Hero. The lag on the Hero is pretty bad as well. You pretty much need to reboot it every day to keep it fast. How about exchange sync and lack of synergy?

    BTW, how many updates have you had on your Hero so far?? I guess you will have to hate Google too.
    Relax, dude. He's giving his opinion of the device, not yours. It's really okay if he doesn't hate it as much as you do.

    My son has the Hero and loves it. He never has to reboot, and can really fly on the virtual keyboard. While I prefer the Pre, I can still love the kid.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by rc46 View Post
    You forgot to mention the joke of a media player on the Hero. You also forgot to mention the lack of a keyboard on the Hero. The lag on the Hero is pretty bad as well. You pretty much need to reboot it every day to keep it fast. How about exchange sync and lack of synergy?

    BTW, how many updates have you had on your Hero so far?? I guess you will have to hate Google too.
    Dude, are you talking about the Kyocera Hero or something? That description sure doesn't match the HTC Hero. I've rebooted it twice, maybe. I have portrait and landscape keyboards without hacking, and they have haptic feedback, auto-correct and learning dictionaries. It does occasionally lag, and then I run TaskKiller and knock out the background processes I am not using. Lag gone.

    As for Media Player, HTC's app is dandy. But I also use Slacker (not on Pre now or anytime soon, plus it murders Pandora) and TuneWiki (ditto).

    The Pre has plenty of great stuff going for it as well, but I don't need to denigrate it to feel better about the device I own.
  5. #5  
    Having owned the pre since launch, and after swapping to the hero for a couple of weeks, I too agree they both have quite a bit going for them, but neither are without their limitations. It does seem however that on this forum the hero's downsides are a bit more downplayed. Yes the hero has auto correct, but I found this to be irritating almost as often as helpful. Too often it "corrected" with completely different words. Missing one letter turned into the completely wrong word thus requiring me to delete the entire word and start over. And if you haven't experienced lag on the hero's keyboard, you must not be typing very fast. Go to any android forum and this issue is taken as a given. It does lag.

    Also, I agree the hero is snappy generally. However, there are times where the system grinds to a pretty slow pace, or even to a complete halt and becomes unresponsive for a few seconds. While much of the unresponsiveness can be mitigated with a task manager, it is a downside to the android os in general (lots of widgets,apps not always closing) and particularly for the hero with its older cpu, gpu and the significant strain sense ui puts on the system. And as mentioned in previous posts, the pre's browser is much better.

    Personally, I much prefer the easy control the pre gives me over which apps are open and running. I also much prefer customising the system itself through "tweaking" rather than through bogging the sysem down by downloading a bunch of additional apps. Moreover, I simply couldn't get used to the virtual keyboard. But, there are definitely aspects of android that I will miss. To each his own, I suppose.
  6. #6  
    Personally i think both phones have their strong and weak points. I think people can be happy with either phones :P...two of my family members have either the pre or hero and they both enjoy their phones ...
  7. #7  
    Nice review. There are a couple of things that I felt differently than you.

    Quote Originally Posted by tntsniper View Post
    1) The multi-tasking is phenomenal on the pre. Effortless and smooth.
    2) The swooping back in forth using the gesture area. GREAT
    I find the Pre's multitasking to be cool looking, but I'm not a fan of how it functions. It puts me in charge of the phones resources, when I'd rather the OS manage those resources. So I found the multitasking of the hero to be preferable, in that it manages resources for me.

    Additionally, I'm *NOT* a fan of gestures for navigation. I prefer the defined menu and back buttons on the hero. The number of gesture misfires that I have is too high (IMHO). A gesture misfire is where I execute the gesture, but I did it just wrong enough for the phone to not acknowledge it. I prefer the definitive press of a button.
    7) No compass, trust me, after having the Moment and Hero, this is so useful, more then you'd ever think.
    Really? You thought so? I haven't figured out what it's useful for. Care to elaborate?
    10) Everything is synced to a cloud, just like the pre, in fact, better then the Pre. I get constant facebook updates (through the widget and through my Address book).
    I find the contact sync with facebook on the Hero is far inferior to that of Synergy. The only things that are imported from facebook are profile picture, birthday & status. But the Hero doesn't import contact numbers, or addresses or other data that would be useful in a contact app. Additionally, you can't link multiple accounts into one like you can on the Pre's contact app.
    12) Email is far superior to the Pres.
    I think the opposite. I didn't like that the Hero doesn't support IMAP IDLE, so it's not true push email. I also don't like that the Hero doesn't correctly render HTML email like the Pre does.
    1) There is multi-tasking, but its a bit rough around the edges.
    2) No way to really "Close" a program w/ out a 3rd party program
    Like I said above, I prefer the Hero's style of multitasking to the Pre's. It's not as flashy but I think it functions better. And I've found that there's really very little need to force close a program on the Hero. The OS will close it when it needs it. There are some exceptions (e.g. the stock messaging app sucking the battery dry), but for the most part I don't mess with task killers.

    In general, I prefer the Hero and I'm looking forward to either
    1. Convincing sprint to let me switch
    2. June 6, 2010 when I will get an upgrade - hopefully by then Palm & Android will have advanced far enough to make it a harder choice.
    Twitter: dullgeek
  8. #8  
    I am using both of them and I think between both you have the perfect device I am listening to the media player on the pre and writing this off my hero. Both are good devices and both have there good and bad.
    Fred
  9. #9  
    I am using both of them and I think between both you have the perfect device I am listening to the media player on the pre and writing this off my hero. Both are good devices and both have there good and bad.
    Fred
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by mu7efcer View Post
    Nice review. There are a couple of things that I felt differently than you.


    I find the Pre's multitasking to be cool looking, but I'm not a fan of how it functions. It puts me in charge of the phones resources, when I'd rather the OS manage those resources. So I found the multitasking of the hero to be preferable, in that it manages resources for me.

    Additionally, I'm *NOT* a fan of gestures for navigation. I prefer the defined menu and back buttons on the hero. The number of gesture misfires that I have is too high (IMHO). A gesture misfire is where I execute the gesture, but I did it just wrong enough for the phone to not acknowledge it. I prefer the definitive press of a button.

    Really? You thought so? I haven't figured out what it's useful for. Care to elaborate?

    I find the contact sync with facebook on the Hero is far inferior to that of Synergy. The only things that are imported from facebook are profile picture, birthday & status. But the Hero doesn't import contact numbers, or addresses or other data that would be useful in a contact app. Additionally, you can't link multiple accounts into one like you can on the Pre's contact app.

    I think the opposite. I didn't like that the Hero doesn't support IMAP IDLE, so it's not true push email. I also don't like that the Hero doesn't correctly render HTML email like the Pre does.

    Like I said above, I prefer the Hero's style of multitasking to the Pre's. It's not as flashy but I think it functions better. And I've found that there's really very little need to force close a program on the Hero. The OS will close it when it needs it. There are some exceptions (e.g. the stock messaging app sucking the battery dry), but for the most part I don't mess with task killers.

    In general, I prefer the Hero and I'm looking forward to either
    1. Convincing sprint to let me switch
    2. June 6, 2010 when I will get an upgrade - hopefully by then Palm & Android will have advanced far enough to make it a harder choice.
    The compass is great when you're in a parking lot and you are pulling out to a road and you don't understand what direction to go to.. The compass will guide you to the road w/ out effort and get you going in the right direction. Also great for walking... Google Maps can guide you easily through a city. There is also a program called "Layar".. its a 3D map using your camera.. You can hold your camera up and see all businesses around you. You can also filter out.. i.e. "Bars".. When I was in Dallas, this was amazing. Just held it up and found all kinds of bars.
  11. chino0131's Avatar
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    #11  
    I dont understand everyones issues. I own a pre and have played with the Hero. They both definetely have their own strengths and weaknesses. They are both great phones in my opinion. However, I don't understand other PRE owners impatience with updates and the fact that they use this as a decision to either switch or constantly complain. For anyone who owned an iphone (I did awhile back), how long did it take Apple to allow such basic functions in their updates such as MMS and Video??? A LONG TIME! Everyone knew that there would be problems with the Pre when it was first released, but most accepted this and hope for change. Granted, the updates arent coming as fast as I would like either, and arent doing what I would like at the moment, but how long has the phone been out? Yes, Palm could afford to put in more effort. However, when you compare the Pre to other phones and dont take into considertion the time its taken for other smartphones to release substantial updates, well whats the problem exactly? Yes, the app catalog is lacking and the phone has so much more potential. I myself will probably be switching to the Hero if Palm doesnt kick it up in the coming months. I'm just as impatient, but at the same time I belive the PRE, just like the Hero has so much potential and giving up when the phone is still somewhat new would be a mistake. Unless of course Palm has already thrown in the towel.
  12. #12  
    I think this thread reveals what a lot of Pre owners (including myself) are going through - what I like to call "Android Envy".

    I think this has arisen from all the hype lately surrounding Android and its new devices (Droid, etc), as well as OS updates/advances like the new GPS, voice, etc. Android appears to be advancing fast and is on the move - this is exciting to owners. I think Pre owners are feeling like WebOS is just slowly creeping along (no video recording yet, etc). This is probably unfair, but I think that's the way it is in terms of people's technology mentality (we all like to have the best/most exciting product). If something doesn't feel like it has an exciting future that's not too far away, people start getting antsy.

    I have to admit, that while I'm a Pre owner and a big fan, I did take a peek at the Hero the other day at the local Sprint store. While there wasn't enough there to sway me to suck up the cost and switch, I can see that if newer Android phones hit that are a bit more advanced (eg: the Snapdragon processor, Android 2.0), it might be a more difficult choice.

    I'm hoping that Palm and WebOS grow more quickly now that Europe and other places are in play with the device....let's go WebOS and Pre!!!
  13. chino0131's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by bronxbomber View Post
    I think this thread reveals what a lot of Pre owners (including myself) are going through - what I like to call "Android Envy".

    I think this has arisen from all the hype lately surrounding Android and its new devices (Droid, etc), as well as OS updates/advances like the new GPS, voice, etc. Android appears to be advancing fast and is on the move - this is exciting to owners. I think Pre owners are feeling like WebOS is just slowly creeping along (no video recording yet, etc). This is probably unfair, but I think that's the way it is in terms of people's technology mentality (we all like to have the best/most exciting product). If something doesn't feel like it has an exciting future that's not too far away, people start getting antsy.

    I have to admit, that while I'm a Pre owner and a big fan, I did take a peek at the Hero the other day at the local Sprint store. While there wasn't enough there to sway me to suck up the cost and switch, I can see that if newer Android phones hit that are a bit more advanced (eg: the Snapdragon processor, Android 2.0), it might be a more difficult choice.

    I'm hoping that Palm and WebOS grow more quickly now that Europe and other places are in play with the device....let's go WebOS and Pre!!!
    Totally agree with what you said! The only factor that is swaying my switch is if the Android advances far beyond the pre and WebOS lags behind. Noone wants to stay with a dying platform. I dont know all the facts, but when was the Android OS first released and when was WebOS? I believe its only fair to give Palm more time. How much though is the question Im struggling with. Again, love the palm but if substantial advancements arent made, or at the very least discussed and guaranteed to take place at some point then well, what choice do I have? I can upgrade a line, buy the Hero at discounted cost, and sell my pre to make up the cost. What to do if Palm lets us down? I hope they wont
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by chino0131 View Post
    Totally agree with what you said! The only factor that is swaying my switch is if the Android advances far beyond the pre and WebOS lags behind. Noone wants to stay with a dying platform. I dont know all the facts, but when was the Android OS first released and when was WebOS? I believe its only fair to give Palm more time. How much though is the question Im struggling with. Again, love the palm but if substantial advancements arent made, or at the very least discussed and guaranteed to take place at some point then well, what choice do I have? I can upgrade a line, buy the Hero at discounted cost, and sell my pre to make up the cost. What to do if Palm lets us down? I hope they wont
    I agree with both of you, but you have to understand, Palm knew what it was getting itself into. They decided to release a phone w/ functions missing that other smart phones have. I'm sorry, just because it took Apple so long to do something, doesn't mean Palm can afford to. Apple innovated the Smart Phone market. They had the time to wait around, Palm doesn't. They got into the game late and they knew the circumstances. For some reason, Palm finds itself "Justified" to take their time, but they are sorely mistaken. If they continue this game, they will, w/ out a doubt, be out of business.

    Remember, we didn't force Palm to release the device so early, Palm was playing games w/ Apple. In the end, they shot themselves in the foot, and now they have a bigger hole to get out of.
  15.    #15  
    ohh btw the Hero doesn't have a proximity sensor, which sucks. And the Pre's accelerometer is much more responsive.
  16. #16  
    Ehh...if Palm released a high res big glass screen slab on Sprint with 5mp camera, 64gb storage, even faster processor, better battery...it'd make the Hero pale in comparison..2.0 android or not.

    The main attention android has gotten lately has been from the Droid's excellent screen and a little google navigation thrown in.

    If Palm wants flagship worthy attention, then it needs flagship worthy hardware. WebOS will improve.

    If we have to wait til June before seeing another device, then Palm is sleeping at the wheel.
  17. swagner's Avatar
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    #17  
    A larger screen Pre with better battery life would be huge in trying to compete with other devices out there.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by bronxbomber View Post
    I think this thread reveals what a lot of Pre owners (including myself) are going through - what I like to call "Android Envy".
    My frustration with the Pre stems from the fact that, while I think the Pre has taken several steps forward, it's also taken several steps backwards. Not from the iPhone, but from the Centro (my previous phone).

    I don't mind giving up some things with a new device, but I've been a palm fan for years because (IMHO) it was the best PDA available. It simply did what it did and did it well. But with the Pre I have:
    • Mediocre to terrible PIM
    • Super slow calendar that makes having a mobile calendar almost pointless
    • An OS that is so slow that I miss phone calls even though I am trying desperately to answer the phone
    • A CDMA radio or radio driver that can't keep a constant signal strengh sitting next to an Airave. The signal strength flopping also results in dropped and lost calls.

    I don't think I have android envy. I think I have "smartphone with basic functionality" envy. That is why I'm interested in the HTC Hero and the Samsung Moment. I can't tell you how close I was to returning the Pre before the 30 day window was up and going back to the Centro that I had. But I didn't, thinking that upcoming releases would fix these basic problems. 4 months after my 30 day deadline, I'm still waiting and I'm much more frustrated.
    Twitter: dullgeek
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by mu7efcer View Post
    My frustration with the Pre stems from the fact that, while I think the Pre has taken several steps forward, it's also taken several steps backwards. Not from the iPhone, but from the Centro (my previous phone).

    I don't mind giving up some things with a new device, but I've been a palm fan for years because (IMHO) it was the best PDA available. It simply did what it did and did it well. But with the Pre I have:
    • Mediocre to terrible PIM
    • Super slow calendar that makes having a mobile calendar almost pointless
    • An OS that is so slow that I miss phone calls even though I am trying desperately to answer the phone
    • A CDMA radio or radio driver that can't keep a constant signal strengh sitting next to an Airave. The signal strength flopping also results in dropped and lost calls.

    I don't think I have android envy. I think I have "smartphone with basic functionality" envy. That is why I'm interested in the HTC Hero and the Samsung Moment. I can't tell you how close I was to returning the Pre before the 30 day window was up and going back to the Centro that I had. But I didn't, thinking that upcoming releases would fix these basic problems. 4 months after my 30 day deadline, I'm still waiting and I'm much more frustrated.
    You've hit most of the reasons I switched to the Hero. I've never had an iPhone, and never wanted one if it meant going back to AT&T. So the comparison that really mattered to me was not iPhone vs Pre, but Centro vs Pre. Surprisingly, the Pre can be a significant downgrade from the Centro and earlier PalmOS phones in many respects.
    Powered by Palm since 1996...
    Palm Pilot > Palm V > Tungsten T > Trēo 650 > Centro > Prē > Prē F102

    ...gave up and switched to iPhone4 7/15/10
  20. #20  
    I have had my Pre since launch. I have also been a "Smartphone" user for roughly 7 years.

    As I have stated a few times prior, the Pre is lacking some fairly significant "Smartphone" features. I will not go into detail with all of those items, since they have been brought up time and time again.

    I purchased a Hero for my son 3 days ago and have been "evaluating" it since.

    The Hero is a much more polished device and Sense UI is VERY well done.
    The Hero is snappier in general and especially so in email (I get 100-250 emails a day).

    The Hero has multi-tasking; it is just different from the Pre's (and more akin to Windows Mobile imo). However, there are a few significant improvements over WM. With Sense UI you essentially have 7 cards available to always be open and, possibly more importantly, setup however you want. Also, web browsing can be done in different windows simultaneously (I believe up to 5 windows?). Tasks have to be managed with a task killer (much like WM).

    After having seeing a home screen again (with important basic info right there whenever you look at your phone) I realized that it is such a convenience that it cannot be understated. I have had this functionality for years with my Smartphone’s and seeing it again made me realize (again) how much I truly need/want this.
    I have mentioned it before, but this is a HUGE oversight by Palm imo.

    Battery Life - Significantly better than the Palm Pre stock battery. It has a 1500mah battery and it is noticeable. I used the Hero all day yesterday with multiple email accounts setup, very heavy web browsing and simply playing around with the phone. At midnight when I placed it on the charger it still had over 30% battery life. My Pre with a stock battery would have been dead by 8pm easily.

    Web browsing does seem to be a little slower than on the Pre but only slightly. Also, the pinch to zoom in/out method works... but it is nowhere as fluid as the Pre. It is certainly serviceable but not quite as elegant. However EDVO (or data in general) seems to be MUCH more consistent and solid. I do not remember waiting once for EDVO (or data in general) to kick in while browsing or using data apps all day. This happens frequently (i.e all the time) on my Pre. I had both phones and my wife's Pre in the same locations all day so this is certainly a phone design issue since it is (and was) the case for both Pre's and I had no issues on the Hero.

    Apps - Not even close. I wasn't sure how big of a difference there would really be for useful apps. After going through the Android marketplace for a couple days now, it is very significant. Everyone already knows (or should) that the android has more apps but the thing that surprised me was how many useful apps are there AND their price. There are tons of useful free apps. Many apps (or equivalent apps) that are on the Palm marketplace for $.99 - $9.99+ are also on the Android marketplace for free.

    So far I am very impressed with the Hero. At stock builds (no homebrew/custom hacks) the Hero blows the Pre away with its polished UI, build quality, battery life, app support and it's battery life.

    Yes, I said battery life twice.
    I have Seidio extended (2600mah) currently in My Pre currently but it also is often mistaken for a hockey puck. My wife still has a stock battery in hers.

    Also, if you take away homebrew's and tweaks/hacks (which your average consumer will never use or consider) these phones are not even close imo. Homebrew's and tweaks/hacks are the only thing that is making the Pre serviceable for me at this point and I am even more concerned about the Pre now that 1.3.1 has wreaked some small havoc on those. I certainly do not want to have to go through cleaning my device and setting up all the tweaks again every time a patch is released.

    I am probably going to continue to use both phones for another week or so and evaluate it further. For what it's worth, I wasn't really crazy about the Hero after evaluating it twice in the Sprint store for 20-30 minutes. It just seems like the more I use it, the more I like it. Unfortunately the Pre has had the opposite effect (to this point). I was very optimistic and excited about the Pre when I initially purchased it and have been less and less optimistic (and happy) as time goes by...
    Last edited by gmanvbva; 11/15/2009 at 09:38 AM.
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