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  1. pvman's Avatar
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       #1  
    Droid Beats Pre, iPhone Beats Droid--For Now - Business Center - PC World

    I'll be the first to admit I don't know much of anything about Android, but I did see Google's you tube video on the new Google Navigation available on Android, and it was very impressive.

    I'm wrestling with what to replace my Treo 680, and my first thought was the Pre.

    But as I did (and continue to do) my research, I find it doesn't have a decent media player (Pocket Tunes, Kinoma, Core Player, etc.), it doens't have extensible memory, it doesn't have much developer traction yet, it doesn't tether, and I'm not sure of its PIM compatiblity with MS Outlook. These are all things my Treo 680 can do inherently (I have a 32 GB SDHC). Sounds like I may be taking a slight step backward.

    Okay, I gain WiFi, some improvements on the PIM apps, the Sprint Everything plan, multi-tasking (which I have already, albeit limited) and EV-DO (actually, the EV-DO sounds very attractive).

    Was Palm too late? Is their advertising too subtle? Is Sprint the right carrier to partner (hurting so bad themselves, the can't but the ad power needed behind the Pre)?

    I've seen the new Mot Droid campaign and it looks very sexy. Don't know if the platform is worth anything, but the ads look great.

    One thing another poster mentioned in another thread is that, if one just jumps into the Pre now, paying Sprint Everything Data prices, that when the the next incarnation of the Pre (and, hopefully, much improved) comes along, one should qualify for a full upgrade credit. The question is, "Will Palm be there?" I know they INTEND to be, but will they?

    Thoughts, anyone?
  2. #2  
    The Droid is a cool phone, a geek's dream. But how many people will want a phone that big? It looks cool as hell, and maybe the photos are misleading, but it looks bigger than first-gen Sidekick.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by jrstinkfish View Post
    The Droid is a cool phone, a geek's dream. But how many people will want a phone that big? It looks cool as hell, and maybe the photos are misleading, but it looks bigger than first-gen Sidekick.


    no way its that big? bigger then the 1gen sidekick? Those sidekicks are huge!!!
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by pvman View Post



    Okay, I gain WiFi, some improvements on the PIM apps, the Sprint Everything plan, multi-tasking (which I have already, albeit limited) and EV-DO (actually, the EV-DO sounds very attractive).

    Thoughts, anyone?
    Since when did a Treo 680 with PalmOS do multi-tasking?
  5. #5  
    That's an absolutely horrible story. I won't argue whether or not Palm will survive long-term, because that requires far more information than I'm betting anyone has at the moment.

    But to say that the Droid "has had a spectacular launch, better than the Palm Pre; though initial sales have yet to occur" is simply stupid. First, the Droid hasn't even launched yet, and so characterizing its launch is premature at best. Second, the Pre had plenty of hype and buzz around it within the tech community, at least as much as I've seen around the Droid. And I've not seen anything to show me that the Droid is any more popular among the mainstream than was the Pre.

    Here's the essence of the story: "I don't have hard research to back-up these conclusions, but I've spent 25 years reporting on computers and technology and here's what I think..." I don't have any hard research to back my up, either, but I guess that doesn't really matter.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  6. #6  
    Poor article. It's one uninformed person's opinion so who cares.
  7. pico23's Avatar
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    #7  
    Hmm, if the GPS software is what you are getting the droid for, why not a Nuvi phone?

    Really, the TeleNav on the Pre is excellent. Perfect no. But it's free, and it works hella good. All the Google Android maps does is add stree view, which I have to admit, i have zero use for.

    I can read street #s and a map if I am not sure the GPS is correct.

    the droid is flippin huge. it is more like a tablet than a phone. Nothing wrong with that but i really do like the pocketability of my Pre. If you are a hip holster guy, the Droid might be OK. However, i think you will have to go from hip holster to man purse to lug that thing around.

    Is the Pre and palm late to the game?

    Not really, actually they are sort of on the front end. Smart phone sales have just begun to go mass market. until recently only phonephiles and business users really had the money and desire to buy a smartphone.

    The Droid is a geeks wet dream, but is it going to appeal to everyone? Not really. I think more women would be interested in the pre than the droid. i think people who like to keep phones in pockets would be as well.

    And I'm just talking form factor, I haven't even gotten into the smoothness of the OS.

    I know Droid is revamped from the original android on the G1, but my take is it's still a bit rough.

    BTW, it's not like the pre isn't pretty darn open, and Palm is locking it down. So the whole open source thing is a bit overplayed. Remember google is suing people for using parts of android without permission...sounds truly open source to me.
  8. #8  
    The Droid won't be anything special in 4-5 months tops. It definetly won't be as big as everyone think it will be IMO. Don't get me wrong I think the specs on the thing are effing sexy. Only the real tech junkies will get this though. The iphone is king because of how it is viewed by people. It is advertised as a cool hip phone and they dominate that demographic. That will never change and their will never be an iphone killer because of that. I think the iphone is an over-hyped expensive p.o.s personally but I know that the iphone will be around for a LONG time and the Droid in the long run will just be another (iphone killer). If the Droid would have come with a front facing camera for video conferencing , 4g radio, and OLED screen then maybe it could be considered a TRUE iphone killer.
    Last edited by Slayix312; 11/02/2009 at 06:40 PM.
  9. pico23's Avatar
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    #9  
    BTW,

    Music Player Remix is excellent. Not sure really what else it can do to make it better (obviously everyone has little tweaks they'd like to see but it's damn good and 100% better than the built in player).

    Dr Podder is great as well.

    So the whole media thing is off.

    and according to CNET, the Droid isn't great with media either.

    The Droid is by far the best phone VZW customers have ever seen, but I'm not sure it's the best phone ever made. I think looking at the pre-release info all phones look perfect. It's not till they hit the wild that we start seeing the flaws and imperfections.

    Also, keep in mind that Android now has an issue with all the ported versions of the OS. When Google releases an update it doesn't go OTA to the phones. the manufacturer gets it first, then the carrier, and then it goes to you. it could be weeks, months or never before updates occur. just something to consider.
  10. Tcub's Avatar
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    #10  
    I'll take a stab at your questions.

    "Was Palm too late?"
    I would say 'No'. The iPhone is at ver 3.x, Android is at ver 2.0, and WinMo... 6.5... webOS? 1.x and despite this it still has all the features found in the more mature platforms and then some. For instance, no phone does multitasking like webOS. It has it's shortcomings now but so did iPhone OS at 1.x and Android at 1.x and certainly WinMo at 1.x... People saying they were "too late" aren't forward thinkers. This platform has a future and it will grow. Look what webOS started with and just imagine what 2.x and even 3.x will have.

    "Is their advertising too subtle?"
    Certainly not! How often did you hear about the "creepy Palm commercial lady"! I actually LOVE that commercial. I'm big on advertisements. One of my current favorites is the new HTC "You" commercial. It's amazing. Palm's commercials had that sizzle too when they first aired and I think now that the product is in the wild it's great they transitioned into the ads that showcase more of the platforms features. One thing I wish they'd do is continue those but also come out with more artsy, brain-working ads. Sprints commercials... well they're better than other wireless carriers ads. They get the job done.

    "Is Sprint the right carrier to partner?"
    Yes! It's funny how people jump and say "iPhone is better than ..." etc. Sure the phone may be better than another but what's the point when it's on a shoddy network. I had an iPhone 3G for a year. I didn't like AT&T at all.. in fact I HATED AT&T. They never did anything to satisfy the customer, the service was awful, dropped calls, etc. And when MMS was to finally hit the iPhone and I learned I had to wait until months later due to AT&T I was furious. The point is when people review a phone they need to also consider the network you're going to be tied to for two years. Even if AT&T offered the same Everything Data plan I have now from Sprint for half the cost, I wouldn't switch. If I'm going to recommend someone the iPhone, I also include the disclaimer "but... you have to use AT&T..."

    Sprint is a plus for the Pre. Their price:service ratio is unmatched by any wireless carrier and I've used VZW, At&t and now Sprint so I have experience with all of them.

    If Sprint is a concern for you, it shouldn't be. If you don't believe me, VZW should be getting it soon. Which I feel is a good move for Palm. VZW is pricier and the network coverage is comparable to Sprint but the customer service is way behind that of Sprints.

    I can't speak for Android but I can compare iPhone to Pre. I stood in line for the iPhone 3G on it's release day for about 6 hours and I had it for over a year until it broke out of the one year warranty and would have cost too much to replace. The Pre had intrigued me so I decided to go for it. I'm really happy I made the move.

    While the Pre doesn't have as many Apps as you can find on the iPhone, in 2 or so months I've owned it, the number of apps has grown. Rapidly too! I have high hopes that with every webOS and Mojo update developers will get a stronger more stable platform and plenty of power to develop great apps. One gripe with the App Catalog is the lack of an established economy so to speak. Some apps that should be free cost too much. Who'd pay a dollar for an app that moos? That's absurd. One attractive thing about the App Store on the iPhone is the number of high quality free Apps. Of course on the webOS side you've always got the homebrew community to rely on and they do deliver!

    The Pre is certainly doing a great job satisfying me, even after owning an iPhone. There are issues here and there but when I do come across any said issues, I remind myself... "It's 1.x and remember when ... happened with your iPhone at ver 2.x? 3.x?" No platform is perfect but the Pre and webOS does great for not being 1.x but also being packed with features right off the bat that other platforms didn't get into later on.

    Again, can't speak for Android because I've never used any phone running it but from what I've seen... The phones are usually always hideous, unnatural, uncomfortable, and aren't ergonomically designed. iPhone feels good, looks great. Pre feels great, look great. The Driod... looks good. I for one am not a fan of horizontal slide out keyboards and one thing that makes no sense at all is... Why is there a nav pad on the right of the Droids keyboard? It's a touchscreen! Pretty silly design...

    Also "GSM Driod with multitouch pinch to zoom"

    Multitouch is really important to me. Double tapping works well but sometimes, I need to pitch my screen to zoom. Why would motorola leave this feature out of the US version?

    Finally... "Will Palm be there?"
    I think so. Palm IS forward thinking. They're doing everything they can to ensure the success of the Pre. Updates are coming often, features added and bugs fixed. A warm and welcoming homebrew community also adds to the value! Look at who Palm is hiring as well. John Rubenstein, experienced Apple engineers, and an ATi engineer for GPU support. They want this to work. Also look at the Pixi. They're reaching out to other consumers and making devices to ensure everyone can find a device in the webOS family they'll love.

    They want success. But what is success? Being an "iPhone killer"? Absolutely NOT. That's one reason I wouldn't want Droid, because of how it's advertised. Palm needs to do it's own thing and do it well and I think they're doing that with webOS.

    To quote Steve Jobs "Apple didn't need to beat Microsoft. Apple had to remember who Apple was."

    Palm needs to do the same thing. Don't try and be the best EVER. Be the best Palm has ever been. That's direction they're headed and I'm happy to be behind them on it.
    Need help with your webOS device? PM me for help!
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by pico23 View Post
    BTW,

    Music Player Remix is excellent. Not sure really what else it can do to make it better (obviously everyone has little tweaks they'd like to see but it's damn good and 100% better than the built in player).

    Dr Podder is great as well.

    So the whole media thing is off.

    and according to CNET, the Droid isn't great with media either.

    The Droid is by far the best phone VZW customers have ever seen, but I'm not sure it's the best phone ever made. I think looking at the pre-release info all phones look perfect. It's not till they hit the wild that we start seeing the flaws and imperfections.

    Also, keep in mind that Android now has an issue with all the ported versions of the OS. When Google releases an update it doesn't go OTA to the phones. the manufacturer gets it first, then the carrier, and then it goes to you. it could be weeks, months or never before updates occur. just something to consider.
    You make some valid points. I have had the Pre since day 1. As much as I like WebOs... I'm getting the Droid this Friday. I'm not completely moving away from the Pre as I'm giving it to my wife (not as techie as I am). I just need more RIGHT NOW not 6-12 months from now. The major reasons I'm switching?

    -Google Navigation
    -Android 2.0
    -16GB with expandable memory slot
    -Plenty of Apps. I didn't know too much about android but after researching they have WAAAYYY more apps than we have including Homebrew amateur apps. They currently have a World Series app for example.. or NBA league pass App. When is the Pre getting apps like those? You know... REAL apps.
    -Huge 3.7 inch capacitive screen (with multitouch enabled through patch)
    -DVD quality video recording (yes I know the Pre will supposedly have this one day.. when that day comes.. my wife will enjoy it).
    -Its launching with specially designed Facebook app specifically for the phone.

    As for the hype for it being similar to the Pre. I have to disagree. I work as a store manager for a retailer that sells a variety of carriers and the Pre didn't have nearly the hype that this phone has right now.. at least not with customers. We have sold through all of our pre orders as of the first day we were able to presell them.

    What I think makes the Droid a more legitimate contender to the iphone are the following reasons.

    -Verizon has the largest network.
    -Many of Verizon's 100 million subscribers have been waiting for a phone like this. The Palm Pre unfortunately didn't enjoy the same advantage with Sprint.
    -Android has huge market share already and will grow exponentially with the Droid release which will continue to encourage developers to make software for that platform. When I compare apps being released on Android to the Pre.. there is no comparison. Yes I know the Pre WebOs is new. So what? Its trying to compete right now. Outside of people like us... nobody cares.
    -Google Nav

    Don't get me wrong guys... I have enjoyed the Pre. When the next gen Pre gets released.. if it gets released with the right specs... I might be all over it. But I need a phone that gives me everything I want RIGHT now. There are millions of Verizon customers that are thinking the exact same thing.
  12. #12  
    Wow, the Droid looks like a turd. I checked out some youtube videos and nothing was memorable and made me say wow... PASS.
  13. #13  
    Look at Music Player Remix and My Tether in Homebrew for an excellent media player and a tether solution.
  14. pvman's Avatar
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       #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by unixpsycho View Post
    Since when did a Treo 680 with PalmOS do multi-tasking?
    Well its really a limited Kernel extension. The only app I'm aware of that took advantage of it was Pocket Tunes. It did so, by allowing playback to occur while other applications were active.

    As an example, I can start playing music on Pocket Tunes and then startup Tom Tom Navigator and the music continues to play. The voice prompts from Tom Tom simply overlay the Pocet Tunes audio. So, Pocket Tunes does background play.

    So, obviously, to do this, the codecs have to process whatever format is playing while simultaneously processing the foreground app.

    Technically, it may not be pre-emptive mutitasking, but it is probably the most common function any one person might want to do.
  15. pvman's Avatar
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       #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    That's an absolutely horrible story. I won't argue whether or not Palm will survive long-term, because that requires far more information than I'm betting anyone has at the moment.

    But to say that the Droid "has had a spectacular launch, better than the Palm Pre; though initial sales have yet to occur" is simply stupid. First, the Droid hasn't even launched yet, and so characterizing its launch is premature at best. Second, the Pre had plenty of hype and buzz around it within the tech community, at least as much as I've seen around the Droid. And I've not seen anything to show me that the Droid is any more popular among the mainstream than was the Pre.

    Here's the essence of the story: "I don't have hard research to back-up these conclusions, but I've spent 25 years reporting on computers and technology and here's what I think..." I don't have any hard research to back my up, either, but I guess that doesn't really matter.

    I whole heartedly agree. I didn't think it was that great of a story and that it was sorely lacking in factual data, but it did cause me to think about the actual product, it's disapointing sales numbers (I saw something somewhere that stated current sales at around 500,000. I think it was a Gartner article, but I'm not sure. None-the-less, that number stuck in my head), and its target audience.

    I remember sometime right after the CES announcement that the Palm CEO was only looking to capture about 2% of the market. Those numbers would be enough to consider the device a "success" and secure Palm going forward. Of course, that was before that took the last VC cash infusion. Now that they have more debt, I wonder what the new numbers are.

    So, with all that in mind, how much of a commitment do I, a consumer, make toward this platform? After all, once in, one starts investing in apps., accessories, and time. I'd hate to do all that, and find Palm going under six months later. No support, no future upgrades, no additional innovation, and no transition path to something else.
  16. UF15's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by pico23 View Post
    the droid is flippin huge. it is more like a tablet than a phone.
    It isn't the most petite or lightweight phone, but it isn't in my opinion "flippin' huge," though maybe it is in yours. I would definitely argue against it being more like a tablet than a phone.

    Look at the Droid compared to the Pre and the iPhone 3GS:

    Droid
    4.55" x 2.35" x 0.55"

    Pre
    3.9" x 2.3" x 0.67"

    iPhone
    4.55" x 2.44" x 0.48"

    It is as tall as the iPhone. Narrower than the iPhone and almost the same as the Pre. It is even thinner than the Pre.

    No, I wouldn't call it tiny, but it also isn't yesteryear's bulky Pocket PC.
  17. pvman's Avatar
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       #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by teej51685 View Post
    Look at Music Player Remix and My Tether in Homebrew for an excellent media player and a tether solution.
    Well, that's my point. Are they free?

    My Treo came with Pocket Tunes Deluxe burned into the ROM and the Tethering is a simple configuration setting.

    My point is, if I ever have to zero reset my phone, I don't have to go find my purchased apps and reload before I'm functional again.

    Sure, Music Player Remix and My Tether may be better than Pocket Tunes and the Network config app, but to me, that's somewhat of a step back if only philosophically.
  18. #18  
    They are free...I got both of them for free and I'm using the free MyTether right now.
  19. pico23's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by pvman View Post
    Well, that's my point. Are they free?

    My Treo came with Pocket Tunes Deluxe burned into the ROM and the Tethering is a simple configuration setting.

    My point is, if I ever have to zero reset my phone, I don't have to go find my purchased apps and reload before I'm functional again.

    Sure, Music Player Remix and My Tether may be better than Pocket Tunes and the Network config app, but to me, that's somewhat of a step back if only philosophically.
    Just a tidbit. All the Apps are avail OTA, and your paid apps get re-downloaded when you re-enter your palm profile ID and pass.

    Example: Your phone goes bonkers. You WebOS Dr it back to factory condition. You log in and voila, it's all back via OTA backup and restore.

    Since Music Player remix is a homebrew, you would merely re-download it from Preware anyplace you have cellular or WiFi.

    Since Sprint requires unlimited plans for this phone, you don't have to worry about data transfer cost for this, so I see no negative.

    Not sure why this sounds awful to you. To me it sounds great. With my pocket PC I had to reload all my stuff in the event of a wipe either from a backup card, or from my computer. And not everything could be installed from backup. So if I was traveling and my PPC went down, I would be screwed.

    Palms WebOS seems much more thought out overall than your Palm OS in that regard.

    There are some situations I think you'd be screwed, but overall I think in most cases this is a better system than what you are referring to.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Slayix312 View Post
    The Droid won't be anything special in 4-5 months tops. It definetly won't be as big as everyone think it will be IMO. Don't get me wrong I think the specs on the thing are effing sexy. Only the real tech junkies will get this though. The iphone is king because of how it is viewed by people. It is advertised as a cool hip phone and they dominate that demographic. That will never change and their will never be an iphone killer because of that. I think the iphone is an over-hyped expensive p.o.s personally but I know that the iphone will be around for a LONG time and the Droid in the long run will just be another (iphone killer). If the Droid would have come with a front facing camera for video conferencing , 4g radio, and OLED screen then maybe it could be considered a TRUE iphone killer.
    I agree somewhat with your take on the iPhone but it's only a matter of time. Yes the iPhone has its place no doubt and it's not going anywhere soon but if Google keeps up the attacks (and it has the resources and talent to do just that), Apple's piece of the pie will only grow so big. So no there may not be an iPhone killer, just a more attractive rival.

    Reading through the various blogs and forums, I see lots of comments by iPhone users who are thinking of switching. Now even if a certain percentage of these are trolls, it's still a sign of vulnerability. Personally I myself (like you) think the iPhone is way over hyped, but that's just my opinion, and it's certainly not a popular one. Deep down I do want to see Apple squirm a bit.

    I think the Droid is just the first in a long lineup of very smart phones that will more than hold their own against and will, in many ways, surpass the iPhone. I also think they will do very well overseas where it seems (in my opinion) open source is more welcomed.
    Last edited by darreno1; 11/02/2009 at 11:37 PM.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
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