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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    You forgot the integrated source level debugging
    that's what eclipse is for!
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Palm's going backwards.
    I know right? They are like sooo far behind where they were last year.

    honestly what are they thinking!!

    haven't the engineers and ceo's at palm heard of apple or the iphone! Do they even know what a good device is?
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Uh, you can quell any worries that Palm cares about "the gaming crowd" given what we've seen on WebOS thus far unofficially and officially.
    No, I think they should not give any attention at all to it. Not have anyone answer questions on the forums. JavaScript games are a waste of time.

    But the benefits are systemwide. An optimized and integrated OpenGL/GPU combo is why the iPhone3GS absolutely flies, and the Pre moves at a comparative crawl.
    I want Palm to fix and develop PIM functionality. The Pre, Hero and iPhone are lousy PIM devices. So I'm sorry, but I don't give a damn about the stupid GPU. And most here don't even understand what a GPU is, but they want it activated yesterday.

    If you want the Pre browser to checkerboard with scrolling even mobile forums, for simple animations to drop frames, and for scrolling and responsiveness to remain inferior to even years-old hardware like that on the TouchPro 2 and the Hero, please lobby Palm to never integrate the GPU.
    The performance problems on the Pre are unrelated to the GPU. There is a lot that needs to be done before the GPU. Right now it would not make any difference if it was on. And if you ask me about animated menus, well, that's the first thing I turn off on every computer I use.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike20PR View Post
    1- Barcode scanner perhaps??
    2- Reality Browser (Layar)
    3- Digital Compass (even though the Pre cant do it even if the SDK could...)
    4- remember the Kinoma Play issue???
    5- Why do you think Documents To Go was delayed till Palm makes a real update??
    6- Game Emulators

    want me to go on...???
    1. barcode scanner (YES, i scan products to get info on brands i know little about and compare prices with other stores)

    2. layar reality browser (YES and NO, yes i show off but with this app i can do a nearby google search and the digital compass willpoint you the direction of what you arelooking for, you can also add layars to look for real estate, apartments available to rent, dealerships etc. so i use it often.... i admit i do show off a lot with this)

    3. digital compass (NO, standalone its mostly to show off but this feature really makes gps apps way more functional)

    4. Kinoma Play (YES, you kidding??? it has built in youtube, flickr, shoutcast, orb etc. etc. etc. WebOS player just does music

    5. Documents To Go (YES, editing docs.... nuff said)

    6. Game emulators (YES, im hooked with this. thanx to the GPU that the Hero has enabled and the Pre doesnt, i have a perfect smooth framerate on my GBA and SNES games with sound on

    ......mentioning more

    1. did you know that Android has a Metal Detector App????? useless but WOW it works...

    2. here is a GOOD one BioWallet...This is a like a password to your Android phone. All you have to do is to take a picture of your eye ball (iris) and set it up as a password to your android and android applications. Itíll only allow an authentication when it matches the iris of your eye scanned using your android camera.

    [IMG]

    those do sound pretty sweet.
  5. #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Care to name the last three items you scanned?



    Yeah, so it's useless. GPS and compass are just not enough for any use.

    [qoute]
    3. digital compass (NO, standalone its mostly to show off but this feature really makes gps apps way more functional)


    In what ways does it make it more functional? Yeah, it's nice that it orients automatically. But that's hardly essential.



    We already have access to most of those and the rest can easily be implemented on webOS.



    Although I'm looking forward to it being available, I'm going to ask you again. When was the last time you edited docs? I'm not saying I don't want it, but I suspect your anxiety is driven more by a technology fetish than real needs.



    But we've already said, what other than games? You're talking about games again. My answer would be go buy a PSP.



    Wow



    Okay cool. I'm sure you use it daily....
    you really are thick are you??? regardless what you would call "essential" the point is that webOS cant do most of what i mentioned above, maybe its not important for your needs but a lot of people would find things like this useful and its better to have the ability and please some people than not to and have a bunch of whiners saying that the sdk sucks....

    and to answer your questions..

    1. cant remember the specific order but i recall scanning a 32" Element LCD TV cuz i did not recognize the brand, A PS3 game "UFC Undisputed" only to find out that Kmart was bull$#itting me and bought it at gamestop for like 15$ cheaper, and three.... a Acer Aspire netbook to see some not-so-good reviews (thats three rite???)

    2. I keep a copy of my resume and some others that i work on from my family and friends on my Hero in case i need to do a quick update on info and email it to them when needed

    3. Why would i waste $200+ on a psp?? to carry another device?? Why not have all my favorite SNES, GBA, NES (which i grew up with and like alot more than these new movie style games) games at my disposal at a perfect framerate?? hahaha YOU buy a PSP cuz this is not possible on WebOS


    you are starting to sound like the iPhone ******* that shun real features just to root for their squad...

    "apps are overrated, who needs copy paste?, i dont use MMS i can email just fine, why do i want a video camera??, multitasking is overated......"
    Last edited by Mike20PR; 10/26/2009 at 11:13 PM.
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  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    The performance problems on the Pre are unrelated to the GPU. There is a lot that needs to be done before the GPU. Right now it would not make any difference if it was on.
    Ok, buddy. Keep telling yourself that.
  7. LurkerX's Avatar
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    #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    Google AJAX SSH or Javascript SSH. There are lots of examples.
    Sorry, no, that's not the same at all. It requires you to run a web server on the machine you want to control to pass on the SSH data. You can' tunnel over it, etc, etc, etc. It's crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    There isn't a specific MS RDP javascript client available but numerous remote desktop/control javascript apps. There is even one in the App Catalog. My point is both are possible.
    Which requires you to run some strange accompanying sever software on your home machine of unknown quality/security. Once again, this is not what was asked for.
  8. stockh's Avatar
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    #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by LurkerX View Post
    This is a painfully bad assumptions. There are a LOT of open source developers out there who could be working on apps and improving things if they had a real SDK to work with.
    My painfully bad assumption was based on "Classic by MotionApps" and not yet released "docs to go".

    From my understanding these apps are/were created using much more than html/javascript/css. So I have to believe they are working with a different SDK.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for advanced apps, just wondering if webOS is being judged harshly by what it can't do compared to what it can do.

    BTW, I WAS a harsh critic about the slow performance but after reading a few post about a using webos I now leave the calendar (along with email, sms and 2 web pages) open as cards.

    Swiping between these cards/apps is AWESOME, and instant gratification!

    It just took me awhile to get used to this new way of thinking about cards constantly being open which I do believe was the intention of WebOS. Also the one thumb swipe that brings up launcher as a wavy ribbon allowing you to launch from there is another very cool and handy time saver.

    New way of thinking = WebOS interface is VERY COOL!
  9. #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike20PR View Post
    you really are thick are you??? regardless what you would call "essential" the point is that webOS cant do most of what i mentioned above, maybe its not important for your needs but a lot of people would find things like this useful and its better to have the ability and please some people than not to and have a bunch of whiners saying that the sdk sucks....
    Why are you bothered by what it can't do? You can barely explain the urgency of everything you're asking for.



    and to answer your questions..

    1. cant remember the specific order but i recall scanning a 32" Element LCD TV cuz i did not recognize the brand, A PS3 game "UFC Undisputed" only to find out that Kmart was bull$#itting me and bought it at gamestop for like 15$ cheaper, and three.... a Acer Aspire netbook to see some not-so-good reviews (thats three rite???)
    I'm sorry, but there are better ways to find deals and save money than strolling in stores and scanning barcodes. Did you buy anything you scanned? Did you actually leave the store and go to the other store ShopSavvy told you about and bought it there?

    2. I keep a copy of my resume and some others that i work on from my family and friends on my Hero in case i need to do a quick update on info and email it to them when needed
    How many times have you used it since you bought your Hero?

    3. Why would i waste $200+ on a psp?? to carry another device?? Why not have all my favorite SNES, GBA, NES (which i grew up with and like alot more than these new movie style games) games at my disposal at a perfect framerate??
    Because gaming consoles are already a solution to mobile gaming and the games are far better. Are you seriously comparing the quality of games between the two? If gaming was that critical you wouldn't settle for an iPhone or Hero.

    In contrast: there are no good PIM devices. It's a need that hasn't been addressed yet, and it should be addressed before the gaming stuff.

    you are starting to sound like the iPhone ******* that shun real features just to root for their squad...

    "apps are overrated, who needs copy paste?, i dont use MMS i can email just fine, why do i want a video camera??, multitasking is overated......"
    No, I'm critical of Palm in the one area they need to work on, making a better PIM device.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Ok, buddy. Keep telling yourself that.
    Really. Suppose Palm sends an update the turns on the GPU this weekend. What do you think will happen?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Really. Suppose Palm sends an update the turns on the GPU this weekend. What do you think will happen?
    LOL...."Turn on" the GPU.

    Yeah, because it's "off." Anyone wants to keep arguing technical graphic issues with this perspective, you must be a masochist.
  12. #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    LOL...."Turn on" the GPU.

    Yeah, because it's "off." Anyone wants to keep arguing technical graphic issues with this perspective, you must be a masochist.
    the problem with the GPU is that if they decide to "turn it on"

    Palm would have to redo most of the OS just to have the software actually use the GPU..... thats something i do not see coming for a long time
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  13. #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    LOL...."Turn on" the GPU.

    Yeah, because it's "off." Anyone wants to keep arguing technical graphic issues with this perspective, you must be a masochist.
    Yeah so, what is your complaint exactly? The GPU is just one of many things Palm could be working on.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  14. #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike20PR View Post
    the problem with the GPU is that if they decide to "turn it on"

    Palm would have to redo most of the OS just to have the software actually use the GPU..... thats something i do not see coming for a long time
    Yes. So why are all the griping about the freaking GPU?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  15. #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Yes. So why are all the griping about the freaking GPU?
    Cuz Palm set themselves up to take a fall.... hardcore developers and game developers take a hit, so as the overall performance of the device, battery life, and heat issues is because the CPU is doing all the work...
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  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike20PR View Post
    Cuz Palm set themselves up to take a fall.... hardcore developers and game developers take a hit, so as the overall performance of the device, battery life, and heat issues is because the CPU is doing all the work...
    Palm doesn't need hardcore developers, it needs developers that write business software. And even before those, it needs to write decent apps first. Right now they are putting out a premature SDK and app catalog instead of producing usable software.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  17. #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    What would those benefits be?

    BTW, I only care about business usage. I do worry that Palm is taking the gaming crowd way too seriously instead of fixing things like the calendar.
    The GPU could be used to accelerate the how the screen is being drawn so that the applications appear to be more responsive. It has been done with desktop OSes for decades and when Apple ported OS X to ARM for the iphone, that also included their hardware accelerated Quartz drawing engine. If Palm upgraded to the latest version of DirectFB, they would get some of this since it has OpenGL support. There is also a webkit subproject to enable hardware accelerated OpenGL in the HTML 5 canvas, but given that it was announced a few months ago, when will it show up in webOS is anyone's guess.

    Another potential source for a speed up would be to include a Javascript "just-in-time" compiler for webkit. It appears that someone from Apple is helping out...you think Palm would have someone too given that Javascript performance is key to webOS.
    https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24986
    BTW, here are some benchmarks of this vs Google's V8:
    http://webkit.sed.hu/node/9

    If someone didn't care about getting into Palm's catalog and was content being a homebrew application, they could create their own services similar to what has been done at webos-internals with Java or C/C++. A HTML & Javascript app would provide a UI and all the 'heavy work' could be done in the service.
    Last edited by hrminer92; 10/27/2009 at 12:13 AM.
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post


    The performance problems on the Pre are unrelated to the GPU. There is a lot that needs to be done before the GPU. Right now it would not make any difference if it was on. And if you ask me about animated menus, well, that's the first thing I turn off on every computer I use.
    Sorry, but you really don't have any idea what you're talking about.
  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Ok...you guys win. Nobody needs apps running natively, and Palm should keep on letting that hardware in the Pre lay dormant. It's turned out swimmingly so far as evidenced by the App Catalog's awesome and well-priced titles, and it'll keep on going against the likes of Shazam, Rock Band/Guitar Hero, Layar, ShopSaavy, Madden, Skee-Ball, Spotify and so on and so on.

    Who'd want to waste time with crap when you can buy translation dictionaries and pic hunt apps?

    Go WebOS! Yay!!!!!
    Correct. Why bother with apps that can, you know, do something? Palm FTW!!$@!one!!
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    #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrminer92 View Post
    If someone didn't care about getting into Palm's catalog and was content being a homebrew application, they could create their own services similar to what has been done at webos-internals with Java or C/C++. A HTML & Javascript app would provide a UI and all the 'heavy work' could be done in the service.
    Speaking strictly as a non-programmer point of view, could this be possibly what Palm's intentions are, have the front end on webos and "heavy work" on the back end (web).

    I know there are a thousand different ways to program but would this "technique" be very efficient? sounds like you would have to know html/javascript/css on the frontend and java or c/c++ on the back.

    In your opinion what would be the way to go assuming Palm is not going to "rewrite" webos.

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