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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by stockh View Post
    I'm going to assume Palm has agreements with "advanced" developers to take care of the heavy lifting apps.

    I can understand Palm's decision if their research revealed that a majority of the apps being developed for the iphone and android platforms only needed html/javascript/css type programming.

    can anyone name a few mobile apps out on the iphone or android that take advantage using a full sdk access?
    There really is not justification for Palm's decision, quite frankly. You cannot unilaterally decide that all that is "needed" is access to javascript -- at least not without sacrificing speed and efficiency and rendering your sophisticated hardware entirely useless. The result of that is you get people correctly complaining that the phone is painfully sluggish. If some developers only want access to javascript, then they can choose to develop in javascript -- there is patently no need to cripple everyone else in the process.

    Although it is somewhat of an oversimplification, almost any even moderately sophisticated iphone/android app could not presently be developed with the sdk that Palm has released.
  2. stockh's Avatar
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    #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by awesomepatrol View Post
    Although it is somewhat of an oversimplification, almost any even moderately sophisticated iphone/android app could not presently be developed with the sdk that Palm has released.

    such as? (name application)
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by stockh View Post
    such as? (name application)
    Such as anything at all that would require GPU acceleration, for starters. I'm not going to run through them all -- you're free to doubt it if you like.
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by awesomepatrol View Post
    Such as anything at all that would require GPU acceleration, for starters. I'm not going to run through them all -- you're free to doubt it if you like.
    No need for a list. Just name one that isn't a game.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    No need for a list. Just name one that isn't a game.
    1- Barcode scanner perhaps??
    2- Reality Browser (Layar)
    3- Digital Compass (even though the Pre cant do it even if the SDK could...)
    4- remember the Kinoma Play issue???
    5- Why do you think Documents To Go was delayed till Palm makes a real update??
    6- Game Emulators

    want me to go on...???
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  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike20PR View Post
    1- Barcode scanner perhaps??
    2- Reality Browser (Layar)
    3- Digital Compass (even though the Pre cant do it even if the SDK could...)
    4- remember the Kinoma Play issue???
    5- Why do you think Documents To Go was delayed till Palm makes a real update??

    want me to go on...???
    Just do him one better: Classic. Docs to go is another great example.

    The hostility some folks around here have towards any legitimate criticism of the Pre is pretty amusing.

    Us: "Pre really needs a real sdk to compete with the likes of the iphone and android."

    Them: "WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?!@$?!@"
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike20PR View Post
    1- Barcode scanner perhaps??
    2- Reality Browser (Layar)
    3- Digital Compass (even though the Pre cant do it even if the SDK could...)
    4- remember the Kinoma Play issue???
    5- Why do you think Documents To Go was delayed till Palm makes a real update??
    6- Game Emulators

    want me to go on...???
    Please do go on...

    Seriously, have you actually used any of those beyond just showing off to your buddies?

    I agree on DocsToGo, but it's coming. Kinoma Play "issues", I don't know what it's for. The webOS music app is already better than the Kinoma Player I had on my Centro.

    Game emulators, not possible. But you were asked to give examples unrelated to gaming.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Please do go on...

    Seriously, have you actually used any of those beyond just showing off to your buddies?

    I agree on DocsToGo, but it's coming. Kinoma Play "issues", I don't know what it's for. The webOS music app is already better than the Kinoma Player I had on my Centro.

    Game emulators, not possible. But you were asked to give examples unrelated to gaming.
    You realize, of course, that adding the ability to access the GPU would have significant benefits outside of gaming, right?

    You guys are a riot. You'd fit in perfectly with the Apple crowd: "Pfft, who really uses MMS and cut-and-paste? You don't need it."
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Please do go on...

    Seriously, have you actually used any of those beyond just showing off to your buddies?

    I agree on DocsToGo, but it's coming. Kinoma Play "issues", I don't know what it's for. The webOS music app is already better than the Kinoma Player I had on my Centro.
    1. barcode scanner (YES, i scan products to get info on brands i know little about and compare prices with other stores)

    2. layar reality browser (YES and NO, yes i show off but with this app i can do a nearby google search and the digital compass willpoint you the direction of what you arelooking for, you can also add layars to look for real estate, apartments available to rent, dealerships etc. so i use it often.... i admit i do show off a lot with this)

    3. digital compass (NO, standalone its mostly to show off but this feature really makes gps apps way more functional)

    4. Kinoma Play (YES, you kidding??? it has built in youtube, flickr, shoutcast, orb etc. etc. etc. WebOS player just does music

    5. Documents To Go (YES, editing docs.... nuff said)

    6. Game emulators (YES, im hooked with this. thanx to the GPU that the Hero has enabled and the Pre doesnt, i have a perfect smooth framerate on my GBA and SNES games with sound on

    ......mentioning more

    1. did you know that Android has a Metal Detector App????? useless but WOW it works...

    2. here is a GOOD one BioWallet...This is a like a password to your Android phone. All you have to do is to take a picture of your eye ball (iris) and set it up as a password to your android and android applications. It’ll only allow an authentication when it matches the iris of your eye scanned using your android camera.

    Last edited by Mike20PR; 10/26/2009 at 08:16 PM.
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    ('')_('') signature to help him gain world domination
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike20PR View Post
    1- Barcode scanner perhaps??
    2- Reality Browser (Layar)
    3- Digital Compass (even though the Pre cant do it even if the SDK could...)
    4- remember the Kinoma Play issue???
    5- Why do you think Documents To Go was delayed till Palm makes a real update??
    6- Game Emulators

    want me to go on...???
    1. A barcode scanner can be done easily once Palm opens the camera API. Yes there are limits to taking macro shots with the Pre but this is not a webOS limitation.


    2. Augmented reality is a good example. Real time data overlay is something I have a hard time seeing webOS doing.

    3. This is irrevelent being a pieice of hardware. If you are saying webOS can't be a compass, I don't know what to say. I could probably write that code and I am horrible in javascript.

    4. Kinoma Play is a media client that relies on certain codecs webOS doesn't support yet. They don't want to change their entire model just for one OS with a small amount of users compared to the others. This doesn't mean that it won't be possible in the future once the needed codecs are added.

    5. We don't know why documents to go was delayed.

    6. Games. I love them too. Especially excited about Forza 3 tomorrow. Emulators are possible in straight javascript. JSNES: A Javascript NES emulator
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    1. A barcode scanner can be done easily once Palm opens the camera API. Yes there are limits to taking macro shots with the Pre but this is not a webOS limitation.


    2. Augmented reality is a good example. Real time data overlay is something I have a hard time seeing webOS doing.

    3. This is irrevelent being a pieice of hardware. If you are saying webOS can't be a compass, I don't know what to say. I could probably write that code and I am horrible in javascript.

    4. Kinoma Play is a media client that relies on certain codecs webOS doesn't support yet. They don't want to change their entire model just for one OS with a small amount of users compared to the others. This doesn't mean that it won't be possible in the future once the needed codecs are added.

    5. We don't know why documents to go was delayed.

    6. Games. I love them too. Especially excited about Forza 3 tomorrow. Emulators are possible in straight javascript. JSNES: A Javascript NES emulator
    JNES is cool. did not know about that. im not saying that WebOS can never do this but at its current state its hard to impossible... future yes, present no <--- thats the point

    just a thought... does anyone think that Palm is intentionally sticking to javascript so the apps wont be so robust and can easily be used as cards??? i believe hardcore apps would have trouble being managed as cards as well as widgets type apps currently available due to more resources being used as well as hardware...
    Last edited by Mike20PR; 10/26/2009 at 08:49 PM.
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  12. stockh's Avatar
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    #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by awesomepatrol View Post
    Such as anything at all that would require GPU acceleration, for starters. I'm not going to run through them all -- you're free to doubt it if you like.
    I'm not doubting, just trying to figure out what, if any, am I missing out on.

    I do understand your point about at least having the option to access the hardware.

    at least for me, I don't see any app accessing hardware that would interest me or missing out on a "must have" application ( ok, I admit AR looks very cool, and biowallet too! )

    Since I'm not a programmer, and I may be way off base but I was under the impression programming under webOS was supposed to provide speed and ease of development on how the app interacts with the OS and other programs.

    I'll leave it up to the "wizards" on what is possible.
    Last edited by stockh; 10/26/2009 at 08:40 PM. Reason: did not see post
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    #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by stockh View Post
    I'm going to assume Palm has agreements with "advanced" developers to take care of the heavy lifting apps.
    This is a painfully bad assumptions. There are a LOT of open source developers out there who could be working on apps and improving things if they had a real SDK to work with.

    Quote Originally Posted by stockh View Post
    can anyone name a few mobile apps out on the iphone or android that take advantage using a full sdk access?
    One of the things that is handy for many of the tech minded folks out there is to remotely control their windows or u/*nix computers to work on things in emergencies. It's something I want/need. That's easy to do with a good RDP or SSH client. You can't build either of those on html/javascript.

    Nokia's new N900 phone uses Maemo, a version of Linux like WebOS is, but allows folks to install regular Linux apps normally used on desktop machines. Thousands and thousands off apps that are more complicated/faster/useful than simple javascript apps can easily be installed on it. We are missing out on a lot of things we could take advantage of if Palm started doing things a bit differently.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by LurkerX View Post
    This is a painfully bad assumptions. There are a LOT of open source developers out there who could be working on apps and improving things if they had a real SDK to work with.



    One of the things that is handy for many of the tech minded folks out there is to remotely control their windows or u/*nix computers to work on things in emergencies. It's something I want/need. That's easy to do with a good RDP or SSH client. You can't build either of those on html/javascript.
    Google AJAX SSH or Javascript SSH. There are lots of examples. There isn't a specific MS RDP javascript client available but numerous remote desktop/control javascript apps. There is even one in the App Catalog. My point is both are possible.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMarco View Post

    I also completely fail to understand the rationale behind releasing a device (Pixi) which is LESS powerful than the Pre. IMHO it would have been a whole lot better if the new device would be an improved Pre. Palm needs powerful kick *** phones to stand out compared to Apple and the (really cool) Android devices that are being released / announced lately. I really don't see how a low-budget phone is gonna do any good here.
    Pixi will rock, and tons of people will buy it. I got my wife a centro, and it's dead now, so Pixi is next. she will love it. so will millions of people.

    my pre is doing me well like my treo's... and the pixi will do the average consumer well.
  16. #136  
    Ok...you guys win. Nobody needs apps running natively, and Palm should keep on letting that hardware in the Pre lay dormant. It's turned out swimmingly so far as evidenced by the App Catalog's awesome and well-priced titles, and it'll keep on going against the likes of Shazam, Rock Band/Guitar Hero, Layar, ShopSaavy, Madden, Skee-Ball, Spotify and so on and so on.

    Who'd want to waste time with crap when you can buy translation dictionaries and pic hunt apps?

    Go WebOS! Yay!!!!!
  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by awesomepatrol View Post
    You realize, of course, that adding the ability to access the GPU would have significant benefits outside of gaming, right
    What would those benefits be?

    BTW, I only care about business usage. I do worry that Palm is taking the gaming crowd way too seriously instead of fixing things like the calendar.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by hans2vt View Post
    Pixi will rock, and tons of people will buy it. I got my wife a centro, and it's dead now, so Pixi is next. she will love it. so will millions of people.

    my pre is doing me well like my treo's... and the pixi will do the average consumer well.
    Problem is all developers must now write apps for lower specs and lower resolutions/less screen real estate than the Pre. Any WebOS apps not able to run well on Pixi will just split the market further.

    Not exactly the kinda switch you want to pull when you're just getting your development efforts underway. You notice that all other platforms (Android slightly excepted given the stupid-as-hell Tattoo) start from a set hardware spec and then only move UP?

    Palm's going backwards.
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    What would those benefits be?

    BTW, I only care about business usage. I do worry that Palm is taking the gaming crowd way too seriously instead of fixing things like the calendar.
    Uh, you can quell any worries that Palm cares about "the gaming crowd" given what we've seen on WebOS thus far unofficially and officially.

    But the benefits are systemwide. An optimized and integrated OpenGL/GPU combo is why the iPhone3GS absolutely flies, and the Pre moves at a comparative crawl.

    If you want the Pre browser to checkerboard with scrolling even mobile forums, for simple animations to drop frames, and for scrolling and responsiveness to remain inferior to even years-old hardware like that on the TouchPro 2 and the Hero, please lobby Palm to never integrate the GPU.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike20PR View Post
    1. barcode scanner (YES, i scan products to get info on brands i know little about and compare prices with other stores)
    Care to name the last three items you scanned?

    2. layar reality browser (YES and NO, yes i show off but with this app i can do a nearby google search and the digital compass willpoint you the direction of what you arelooking for, you can also add layars to look for real estate, apartments available to rent, dealerships etc. so i use it often.... i admit i do show off a lot with this)
    Yeah, so it's useless. GPS and compass are just not enough for any use.

    3. digital compass (NO, standalone its mostly to show off but this feature really makes gps apps way more functional)
    In what ways does it make it more functional? Yeah, it's nice that it orients automatically. But that's hardly essential.

    4. Kinoma Play (YES, you kidding??? it has built in youtube, flickr, shoutcast, orb etc. etc. etc. WebOS player just does music
    We already have access to most of those and the rest can easily be implemented on webOS.

    5. Documents To Go (YES, editing docs.... nuff said)
    Although I'm looking forward to it being available, I'm going to ask you again. When was the last time you edited docs? I'm not saying I don't want it, but I suspect your anxiety is driven more by a technology fetish than real needs.

    6. Game emulators (YES, im hooked with this. thanx to the GPU that the Hero has enabled and the Pre doesnt, i have a perfect smooth framerate on my GBA and SNES games with sound on
    But we've already said, what other than games? You're talking about games again. My answer would be go buy a PSP.

    ......mentioning more

    1. did you know that Android has a Metal Detector App????? useless but WOW it works...
    Wow

    2. here is a GOOD one BioWallet...This is a like a password to your Android phone. All you have to do is to take a picture of your eye ball (iris) and set it up as a password to your android and android applications. It’ll only allow an authentication when it matches the iris of your eye scanned using your android camera.

    Okay cool. I'm sure you use it daily....
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
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