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  1. #61  
    I think it took 4-5 months to figure out webOS isn't what we thought or hoped it to be.

    That said, it still has a place right now although its being squeezed somewhat. Just not among the higher end androids, iphones, or some others. Maybe in the limited featurephone category but with lightweight apps. And perhaps that's why they chose the Pixi because they know it can't compete yet with the likes of RIM or Apple. Even the word "Pre" is an acknowledgment that its not ready yet to compete with high end smartphones. Questions remain just how much room there's left to play with a low cost strategy considering 99 gets you an iphone.

    It WAS nice to have in the car on a touchstone, running navigation, streaming pandora, and integrated well with my BT stereo.

    But Palm doesn't make or design anything for the car and the number of people with BT car stereos is limited. Heck, that's part of the problem with Palm. They've not pushed anything with this phone. Their focus is weak declaring it's for "busy people." And its still a phone that is similarly priced vs high end smartphone offerings and requires the same pricey data plan.
  2. #62  
    I agree the phone has it's place maybe drop the off contract price to $350 max and palm has something here, unfortunately that does not help those of us who paid $500 for it. Assuming they fixed the hardware issues, I would definately find a way to reinforce the cheap plastics used and at a lower price people may not be so upset at the lack of basic features its just that the phone can't compete with other phones in the $500 price range and people are gonna continue to get upset when they realize they got robbed.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by crackbone View Post
    good god. Here we go again.

    The phone released in june. Follow up hardware is coming shortly.

    Take a valium, listen to some new age music, or whatever. You bought into a new os and all of the great things and hardships it brings.
    rofl!
    We can not control the direction of the wind. However, we can adjust our sail.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I think it took 4-5 months to figure out webOS isn't what we thought or hoped it to be.

    That said, it still has a place right now although its being squeezed somewhat. Just not among the higher end androids, iphones, or some others. Maybe in the limited featurephone category but with lightweight apps. And perhaps that's why they chose the Pixi because they know it can't compete yet with the likes of RIM or Apple. Even the word "Pre" is an acknowledgment that its not ready yet to compete with high end smartphones. Questions remain just how much room there's left to play with a low cost strategy considering 99 gets you an iphone.

    It WAS nice to have in the car on a touchstone, running navigation, streaming pandora, and integrated well with my BT stereo.

    But Palm doesn't make or design anything for the car and the number of people with BT car stereos is limited. Heck, that's part of the problem with Palm. They've not pushed anything with this phone. Their focus is weak declaring it's for "busy people." And its still a phone that is similarly priced vs high end smartphone offerings and requires the same pricey data plan.
    I find this entire discussion incredibly silly. The bottom line is that Palm had only two choices. Choice one: release the Pre, and through it WebOS, when they did, warts and all. Choice two: delay the release of the Pre until they could flesh out WebOS and add all of the functionality and polish that folks here are complaining about.

    I submit that Palm made the first choice because it was really the only feasible choice they had. They simply did not have the finances to wait. In reality, I think the choice was between releasing as they did, or going out of business.

    Now, personally, I find the Pre to be the best smartphone I've owned, as it is. It's definitely better than the Mogul and Touch Pro that came immediately before it, in performance, stability, and usability--albeit, Windows Mobile has a far larger and more robust set of applications available. And, I find the Pre simply more of a joy to use than my Treo 600 and 650, and more stable as well--albeit, the Treos had much better PIM capabilities, both built-in and via third-party addons.

    Maybe I'd find the iPhone to be a better overall experience, maybe not. Same with Android. And that's regardless of how much longer both platforms have been on the market, because it's true that Palm is competing on its own merits, today. They don't get a pass because the Pre and WebOS are new. But, that's really all beside the point.

    What isn't beside the point is that we're dealing with Palm as a company that, I'm sure, is working as hard as it can to make the Pre and WebOS as good as they can make them. They might fix the prevailing issues in time to be competitive against Android and, ultimately, against the iPhone, they might not. If they don't, they'll fail and either go bankrupt or get bought out. But, whatever happens, it's certainly not for want of trying--I'm certain of that.

    In the meantime, each of us Pre owners have a simple choice: stick with the platform, or not. The question of whether or not Palm owes us something that they're not giving us is irrelevant, really, and more important it's so subjective that it's really not worth debating. To my knowledge, there's nothing that Palm promised that they're not delivering (outside of some stability issues that every mobile device is guilty of), and so any complaints are really based on our own expectations, realistic or not.

    For example, Palm never promised us video recording within a certain timeframe. They never promised us robust 3D games (and, in fact, they stated clearly that gaming wouldn't be a WebOS strength for some time). They never promised us the breadth and depth of the iPhone's app ecosystem, and certainly not right away. They never even promised us voice recording--ever. If anyone can point out something that Palm promised and hasn't yet delivered, please do so.

    In short, we've got what we've got so far with the Pre. No more, no less. And, I'm convinced that Palm's doing everything a company of its size and with its limited financial resources could possibly do to build a brand new platform from the ground up. At the very least, I certainly don't know enough about Palm's internal situation and constraints to be able to confidently claim to know how they could be doing things differently. I wager the same goes for everyone else on this forum.

    If anyone doesn't like the Pre, then by all means, they should move on to something else. It just seems quite ridiculous to spend so much time attacking a product for not being as good as other products on the market. I mean, this is still enough of a free country that we can make the switch whenever we want.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  5. #65  
    actually it is absurd to think that after dropping $500 on a phone plus more for accessories that someone would be able to go out and drop another $600 5 months later. This is palms obligation to the consumers to rush and complete the incomplete device they sold to them. This is not about anything palm promised it is about what was expected to be delivered, it is silly to consider this a business phone when you have to tediously delete every single email you receive not only one at a time but do it twice (that is a joke). of course all phones bring different features to the table, some are just basic features that should be there and should not need to be researched before purchasing a phone.
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    #66  
    I mean, this is still enough of a free country that we can make the switch whenever we want.
    That's why I switched. It would not have took them that much longer to add features. Look at what homebrew has done. That excuse is not even valid that they did not have time. By now, it should of been done...period.
  7. #67  
    sart move I almost left but right before my 30 days expired I got my second update in less than a month (july 23rd version 1.1) which led me to believe palm was actively working on fixing all of the little issues. 3 months later only 1 update and no fixes app store still lacking big time. I love the phone for its potential but wish I had jumped ship when I had the opportunity, fortunately i got it off contract and thanks to sprint will be eligible for a device upgrade a year early on feb. 12th.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by awrnsmn View Post
    That's why I switched. It would not have took them that much longer to add features. Look at what homebrew has done. That excuse is not even valid that they did not have time. By now, it should of been done...period.
    None of this should be taken as a slight to the homebrew community, but:

    1. Much of what the homebrew has done with regard to the hacks is to simply enable features that Palm has developed but not yet turned on. Because I don't think Palm is just being sadistic, there's probably a reason why they haven't yet done so.

    2. The homebrew community can do so much more than Palm simply because they don't have to support whatever they do. Palm does.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by awrnsmn View Post
    That's why I switched. It would not have took them that much longer to add features. Look at what homebrew has done. That excuse is not even valid that they did not have time. By now, it should of been done...period.
    How do you know how much longer it would take to add features? There is a lot more involved than just adding a feature and calling it a day. Actually development is the easy part it is the QA that takes the most time. I can only imagine how much stress the webOS QA team is under these days with how fast they are pushing out the updates.

    I am an IT Systems Engineer and I develop a lot of apps and scripts to automate IT environments. I usually crank this stuff out pretty quick, but the team that tests my work has to do regression testing against ALL the other systems and software in the environment to make sure there aren't any major problems. This takes a lot of time.

    Homebrew is great and I love it, but it doesn't have the same QA process that Palm has. We were all wondering why LED notifications weren't turned on, but now that some people are seeing major battery drain we know why. This is just one example.

    We DON'T want another 700p fiasco. I would rather have a phone lacking features that is stable then add features with updates rather than having a phone with everything on there but tons of bugs. Palm is doing it right.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    actually it is absurd to think that after dropping $500 on a phone plus more for accessories that someone would be able to go out and drop another $600 5 months later. This is palms obligation to the consumers to rush and complete the incomplete device they sold to them. This is not about anything palm promised it is about what was expected to be delivered, it is silly to consider this a business phone when you have to tediously delete every single email you receive not only one at a time but do it twice (that is a joke). of course all phones bring different features to the table, some are just basic features that should be there and should not need to be researched before purchasing a phone.
    You have (or had) 30 full days to evaluate the device before deciding whether or not to keep it. What more could anybody ask for? Really, that's very generous and unusual. Beyond that, there's not really much else to say. As I said in my post, you can keep the device, or not. Your choice.

    I don't really follow the rest of your post, sorry.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    In the meantime, each of us Pre owners have a simple choice: stick with the platform, or not. The question of whether or not Palm owes us something that they're not giving us is irrelevant, really, and more important it's so subjective that it's really not worth debating. To my knowledge, there's nothing that Palm promised that they're not delivering (outside of some stability issues that every mobile device is guilty of), and so any complaints are really based on our own expectations, realistic or not.
    I pretty much agree with what you said above (and in the paragraph that followed), but I think Palm more or less "owes" us a better (and faster) Calendar app and better PIM integration. (Pretty much along the lines of the rant in Palmcast 80.) When you think about the way they marketed this phone as a "multitasking phone for busy people", they clearly need to right that wrong. Also the other "unpromised" things you mentioned definitely need to be on (in my opinion) the "B-list" and released as soon as is practical ("promised" or not).
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    2. The homebrew community can do so much more than Palm simply because they don't have to support whatever they do. Palm does.
    Exactly (and this is a point that many non-techies do not understand. The tweaks are just that: risks that we take in running useful but sometimes dangerous and untested code. On any platform other than the Pre, these sort of tweaks would not even be possible.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclancy View Post
    I pretty much agree with what you said above (and in the paragraph that followed), but I think Palm more or less "owes" us a better (and faster) Calendar app and better PIM integration. (Pretty much along the lines of the rant in Palmcast 80.) When you think about the way they marketed this phone as a "multitasking phone for busy people", they clearly need to right that wrong. Also the other "unpromised" things you mentioned definitely need to be on (in my opinion) the "B-list" and released as soon as is practical ("promised" or not).
    I'm not arguing that Palm doesn't need to improve the Pre. It has many areas where it can be made much, much better. I'm simply saying that Palm definitely does _not_ "owe" us anything. They offered a product for sale, and we bought it. Unless they've committed fraud or engaged in deceptive advertising, which I don't think they'd done, then it's really up to us to accept the device or not.

    And really, I think that the Pre does work for busy people. When I was in the middle of one of the busiest times in my life (buying a house and moving in following my rental house being foreclosed, and having to do it within 90 days), the Pre was incredibly useful for me--much more than any other device I've owned would have been. Limitations and all.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  14. #74  
    well clearly buying a house is not a 9-5 job and does not require near as much use of a calendar as running a business so i am sure that the lack of features does not impact you much, good for you. As far as the 30 day deal if you read my post I agree that I made an error in judgement I assumed that because there were 2 updates in the first 3 weeks I had my pre that it was a sign of promise. Unfortunately my assumption was wrong and palm has not done as much as I assumed they would in the last 3 months. No, palm did nothing wrong and I never said that but what they are not doing is satisfying their customers which is the only point I am trying to make if you read the post of the thread you would know that I am simply stating that palm will lose future business if they continue at this pace.
    Please read thread titles before you choose to comment, to avoid looking like a fool. If you want to argue that the pre is a great device go start a new thread, if you want to comment on the future of web os than this is the place to be.
  15. #75  
    fix calendar some, (faster navigation and an agenda view) tidy up pim add memo and task sync. implement forwarding sms and remove browser memory leaks. Its all I really want, I don't think its terribly out of reach and I will be dissapointed if one of those is not addressed in the next update.

    I demand the app limit be addressed asap, its bushleague.

    but is the os dying? I would say I have 1000% increased faith in palm from this time last year, and webOS is more alive than ever.

    there's just more competition.

    typed on my pre
    Last edited by windzilla; 10/22/2009 at 10:28 PM.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    well clearly buying a house is not a 9-5 job and does not require near as much use of a calendar as running a business so i am sure that the lack of features does not impact you much, good for you. As far as the 30 day deal if you read my post I agree that I made an error in judgement I assumed that because there were 2 updates in the first 3 weeks I had my pre that it was a sign of promise. Unfortunately my assumption was wrong and palm has not done as much as I assumed they would in the last 3 months. No, palm did nothing wrong and I never said that but what they are not doing is satisfying their customers which is the only point I am trying to make if you read the post of the thread you would know that I am simply stating that palm will lose future business if they continue at this pace.
    Please read thread titles before you choose to comment, to avoid looking like a fool. If you want to argue that the pre is a great device go start a new thread, if you want to comment on the future of web os than this is the place to be.
    First, the house purchase was on top of my otherwise incredibly hectic schedule. Your assumptions are a wonder to behold.

    Second, your posts would be much, much easier to understand if you would use some punctuation and grammar. Frankly, I don't have so much time that I can use it up trying to parse your writing.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  17. #77  
    sorry I am typing on a tiny keyboard on a phone that auto zooms on the text box where I can not see what I am typing and I do not have all day to type so grammar and punctuation are not of any concern to me so deal with it.
  18. #78  
    I find this entire discussion incredibly silly. The bottom line is that Palm had only two choices. Choice one: release the Pre, and through it WebOS, when they did, warts and all. Choice two: delay the release of the Pre until they could flesh out WebOS and add all of the functionality and polish that folks here are complaining about.
    Actually Palm had more choices than that.

    WebOS is a great UI and the experience it offers is great.

    Another choice they had would've been to go with android and throw their UI on top of it. Imagine Palm not having to fool with an app store. Just launching hardware and tweaking out their version of android.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Actually Palm had more choices than that.

    WebOS is a great UI and the experience it offers is great.

    Another choice they had would've been to go with android and throw their UI on top of it. Imagine Palm not having to fool with an app store. Just launching hardware and tweaking out their version of android.
    I was just thinking exactly the same thing. Android on the Pre's hardware would be pretty nice.
  20. #80  
    I've always used early release software, I know what I get into and I'm a software developer myself. But I've never felt as irate with a product as with the Pre.

    I can't put my finger on it but it's almost as if the most grating bugs were handpicked to ship with the phone.

    System sounds in the most inappropriate moments, a phone app that fails to launch in time to answer incoming calls, a calendar that's unusable in a business context, a music player that chops off tracks, doesn't resume and won't scrub. And lastly a multitasking OS with no memory management and storage for apps.

    It's like a giant prank.
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