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  1. mulcher's Avatar
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       #241  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    As I'm thinking about it, I also have to ask: what's your point? Okay, so, let's grant your premises: Palm's late to the party, WebOS is undeveloped, poorly developed, and uncompetitive. Now what?

    See, if I were you, that's the point at which I'd move on to something else.
    If (and note, I'm not buying the hype, I want to see the actual delivered product as the Pre was Hyped like hell) the Droid is the '2nd coming' the blog sites are stating, then I would switch....except.

    We just signed 20 contracts for phones with sprint including 5 Pre's. We did this in August because at the time Android wasn't impressive and Sprint by far has the best rates.

    Now that I have my Pre which I can't return and Sprint doesn't currently have a fast android 2.0 device, I'm kinda stuck, praying for a magic OS upgrade that Speeds everything up. As I originally stated, if everything sped up the fundamental Pre is quite decent as long as you didn't buy it for games (which I didn't).

    It's the friggen slow email design that's is my real pet peave. I've had to put a bunch of patches in to give it functionality others have (I desparately need landscape email as you can't read most html email in portrait view without superman vision). I'd don't know if its those patches or what, but I get a ton of 'lagouts' where I'll click something and it won't respond in any visual way for a few secons.
    Mark F Chinsky
  2. mulcher's Avatar
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       #242  
    Quote Originally Posted by awesomepatrol View Post
    No, you're misunderstanding his argument.

    What he is saying is that if even with a full-fledged SDK and tens of thousands of apps you only end up with a few decent ones (false, but whatever), then the prospects for Palm's far, far smaller catalog and crippled SDK are very dim indeed.
    What does the apps or SDK matter if you can't answer the phone while you are waiting for the rediculously sluggish phone app to launch, or you have to wait minutes for syncing an exchange folder during which the phone is barely responsive etc.

    This phone feels like an early beta application that needs to be optimized. Unfortunately it's been out as Release Version for 6 months now.
    Mark F Chinsky
  3. mulcher's Avatar
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       #243  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I suppose you're right. It's a new economy where business models and revenues are irrelevant.
    Yea, like Youtube, Facebook, Twitter etc...
    Mark F Chinsky
  4. #244  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Analyst: Palm Pre Fails to Bolster Sprint | John Paczkowski | Digital Daily | AllThingsD

    According to Harris, ďThis number provides some indication of the available market for all high-end devices at Sprint. In Palmís August quarter, 85% of the companyís sales went to Sprint. Given the absence of growth in Sprintís CDMA postpaid category, it appears likely that most of the Palm Pre sales went to existing Sprint subscribers as opposed to winning customers from other carriers.

    The big problem for Palm is that there really aren't any compelling reasons for people to go buy the Pre or the Pixi over all of the new devices out there going forward. Cards and gestures simply aren't going to cut it. Wanting a smartphone on Sprint isn't going to cut it going forward.

    Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what the endgame is for Palm/WebOS? Acquisition? Slow death over a couple of years? Sale to a Chinese company?
    Sometimes we fail to remember that over 90% of the smartphone consumers out there aren't like us. User experience is very important to them, which is why the iPhone sold and still sells like hotcakes even though there were phones out when it was launched that had tons more features. I mean the original iPhone sold without 3G and that was OK for people because the phone just worked for them.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  5. mulcher's Avatar
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       #245  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I suppose you're right. It's a new economy where business models and revenues are irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    So, if I post in disagreement, I'm "flaming" you?
    No I didn't mean it that way. I'm as much a ****** of Palm as others, but I know when I appear to be less productive and I know when you start a negative thread, some people go nuts.

    I just wrote a blog on Geardiary, beating up the Pre and praising the iphone for some things and I get a comment from an iPhone junking cursing me out for being a Palm ******...

    I was generally a Windows over Mac fan. Then when Vista came out (good analogy to WebOS) it looked alot sharper than previous windows, but ran like a bloated pig (WebOS anywone).

    Finally, 4 years later we got Windows 7 and it kicks ****. Palm doesn't have 4 years to get "WebOS 7" they need it within 6 months or its game over because Microsoft had a virtual monopoly. Palm doesn't
    Mark F Chinsky
  6. mulcher's Avatar
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       #246  
    [QUOTE=VeeDubb65;2006411]Actually, (and I don't think I'm alone here) Sprint, Verizon and ATT all have good coverage where I live, and where I work.

    When I bought my palm Pre, I was no longer tied to a contract, and had every opportunity to get an iphone, or one of the various android devices out there at the time. (about 2 months ago)

    I CHOSE the Pre, because I liked the Pre.

    I still like the Pre.

    I don't want a droid, because I don't want to carry a cell phone the size of a Ford Escort. (That's like a Ford Anglia for my friends on the other side of the Atlantic)

    ME:

    The Droid didn't look that big. It's definitely bigger than the Pre, but most of that size is to give you a bigger screen.

    Personally I don't need to win the smallest device war. After years of hauling a Treo 700p around, any new device feels great. What I hate about the pre is the web pages are so damn tiny due to the limited screen size. Also, the double tap to zoom (especially in html email) often overzooms for some reason.
    Mark F Chinsky
  7. mulcher's Avatar
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       #247  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall View Post
    Not to start an argument, but the Gizmodo article IS being discussed in the very first thread I mentioned. The second article is from his own blog, and from what I can see its not from a leading industry blog.

    Instead of contributing to an existing thread, he decided to promote his blog in a separate thread so that we can re-discuss all of it ad nauseam.
    I don't make a dime off that blog. I only linked to the article so I wouldn't have to duplicate all my thoughts here.

    As a matter of fact, since Gizmodo bloggers are paid, you could potentially call them biased as they get ad revenues and thus their salary from many of these vendors.

    Geardiary is all volunteer (other than the owner, Judie) so its a 'tell it like we see' it blog.

    Do we remember how the original Storm was going to be the worlds greatest iphone killer? Than once released it was a Lead Zeppelin... Let's keep a grain of skeptisicm on the Droid until it's released.
    Last edited by mulcher; 10/30/2009 at 10:21 AM.
    Mark F Chinsky
  8. mulcher's Avatar
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       #248  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    While I agree that Palm is in for some challenging times and has made some questionable decisions (JSJSJS/$HTML$ &$quot$;$SDK$&$quot$;, $Sprint$ $Exclusive$) $your$ $article$ $contains$ $numerous$ $factual$ $errors$. $For$ $example$ :

    "You might think of the Palm OS as similar to Windows 95/98. Yes it was graphical, Yes it was productive and feature rich, but it never had a truly protected memory architecture. They did allow apps to run in the background, but thatís usually what caused slowdowns and crashes Ė just like (serious) multitasking would often crash windows 95/98.
    10 years later even the iPhone canít really multitask due to the same overall challenges and issues."

    The iPhone OS architecture is equally or more suitable for multi-tasking as WebOS and it fully supports "a truly protected memory architecture".

    In a related article about the Pixi you stated that the Palm Centro:

    "It had less capability than recently released Treoís. Primarily that the 700p was out and was the first Treo to support 3g. It was a head scratcher when the Centro only support the slower non 3g connections."

    which is complete nonsense. The CDMA versions of the Centro support 3G just like the CDMA versions of the PalmOS Treo, the GSM versions of the Centro support the "2.5G" EDGE standard just like the GSM versions of the PALM OS Treos. Aside from the size, Centros are every bit as powerful as the Treos they replaced and generally less prone to crashing.
    Thank you AD. I could swear I remember the Centro not being 3g and was a head scratcher. Was there a time where it was possibly rumored or proposed to not have 3g? Either way, I corrected my post in the article and mentioned that it wasn't 3g on AT&T.

    Thanks
    Mark F Chinsky
  9. #249  
    From the blog post:

    Case in point, it takes me almost 20 seconds to enter an appointment on the Pre Calendar between gestures, navigating and waiting. It took about 1/3 that time with a Treo. It’s faster to write down an appointment and enter it later than be embarrassed in front of the Dentist trying to put your next appointment in your Pre.
    This is a recurring theme. Being embarrassed by the Pre in front of people. Even with the new substitutes like Agenda and Quick Event, which are great developments. It's still too hard to use the Pre for scheduling.

    Yesterday I was at the all too familiar and painful situation where I'm trying to coordinate a meeting with the person talking to me. I'm thinking, well, lets see, should I open the calendar, Agenda or QuickEvent? I started with QuickEvent, and tried "Meeting next Thursday 8am-". No go. Why? I page down to the instructions, all this while the other person is wondering what am I doing there. Finally I figure out that I should have said "Meeting 10am- next Thursday". Now, QE is a good app and I love what the developer is doing, but, it has its notions about phrasing and they are not something to recall on the spot without rehearsing first. I apologize to the person, "sorry, it's a new phone, I'm still learning it". Yes, I've been learning it since June. BTW, the meeting I scheduled went into an occupied slot because QE doesn't detect it. I should have opened Agenda at the same time to view that day. It's still cumbersome.

    Then this morning, I get an email asking to reschedule a meeting. This wasn't an iCal event, just a plain email. The meeting is in some day in November but I don't remember the date. Should I open the calendar and start swiping furiously? Well, lets try Agenda, it has a quick type search feature. Nope, not working. Great app, but at the moment something's not working. Lets see, I'm pretty sure I have that version with the search, but lets check Preware. Well, Preware is spinning waiting for some feed to load. So I'm looking at Preware spinning, because I need the latest version of Agenda, because I need to search for an appointment to reschedule, because the calendar app cannot be searched, and swiping over days and weeks is going to take forever. So I gave up and decided to wait to get to my computer.

    A couple of examples of real world usage with the Pre. Yes, in theory there's QuickEvent and there's Agenda, but on the spot all this stuff isn't coming together as it should and is not a substitute for an integrated solution from Palm.
    Last edited by sivan; 10/30/2009 at 01:22 PM.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  10. #250  
    Quote Originally Posted by mulcher View Post
    Thank you AD. I could swear I remember the Centro not being 3g and was a head scratcher. Was there a time where it was possibly rumored or proposed to not have 3g? Either way, I corrected my post in the article and mentioned that it wasn't 3g on AT&T.

    Thanks
    After the 700P was launched, all subsequent CDMA Treos/Centros and all WM Treos supported 3G. GSM PalmOS users have been left out of the 3G party. When the 680 was announced without 3G, that led to comments. When the GSM Centro also didn't have 3G, that was in the reviews too.

    The later CDMA and GSM Treo/Centros differ in another way too. A new phone app was introduced with the GSM only 680. This never made it to the CDMA 755p or Centro. However, it did appear on the GSM Centro. The CDMA Centro is basically a scaled down 755p and the GSM Centro is a scaled down 680.
  11. #251  
    It was 3G, but not rev A. I believe that's what the OP meant to say.

    It was fast enough, it didn't have a browser that required a fast connection.
  12. #252  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmmorse81 View Post
    Why would anyone want a pre when they can get a droid or iphone?
    you have an existing investment in PalmOS applications that you still need to use, but your old phone/PDA is inoperable.
  13. #253  
    Remember: Palm is a very small company in the smartphone business right now, in terms of offerings and employees. Compared to Apple and Google, Palm might as well not be there, there's such a size disparity. But there's something to be said for dedication vs. money.
  14. LurkerX's Avatar
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    #254  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    The entire OS is a web server. How do you think everything is being rendered?

    Once again you have no clue about what you are talking about. I want an SSH client on the phone to talk to an SSH server on my work/home computers. With that crap app you were touting I would have to run a web server on my work/home machine for the Pre to talk to. I don't want to run an unneccessary web server. I don't want to run additional services with additional security holes. I want the Pre to talk straight to an SSH server and IT CAN'T with apps developed with the SDK.

    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    The point is it is possible, just no there yet. If remote control can be done RDP can be done.
    Remote control can only be done because you are essentially running someone's homemade web server on your home machine for the javascript phone to talk to. It can't run the desirec protocols with the SDK!

    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    My main point is we can't just say X is not possible on javascript so it can't be done on webOS. Mojo passes a bunch of calls to lower API's to get data. As more of these API's open up we will see better apps.
    My point is they aren't open NOW. So some things we simply can't do unless you are one of the 'chosen' developers such as the developers of Classic, who are allowed access the rest of us aren't. So there are many apps that are simply impossible to create right now.
    Last edited by LurkerX; 10/30/2009 at 07:56 PM.
  15. #255  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Then this morning, I get an email asking to reschedule a meeting. This wasn't an iCal event, just a plain email. The meeting is in some day in November but I don't remember the date. Should I open the calendar and start swiping furiously? Well, lets try Agenda, it has a quick type search feature. Nope, not working. Great app, but at the moment something's not working. Lets see, I'm pretty sure I have that version with the search, but lets check Preware. Well, Preware is spinning waiting for some feed to load. So I'm looking at Preware spinning, because I need the latest version of Agenda, because I need to search for an appointment to reschedule, because the calendar app cannot be searched, and swiping over days and weeks is going to take forever. So I gave up and decided to wait to get to my computer.
    +1

    Been there, suffered through stuff like this over and over while iPhone and BB users waited for me to catch up. Sorry, it just got old.
    Powered by Palm since 1996...
    Palm Pilot > Palm V > Tungsten T > Trēo 650 > Centro > Prē > Prē F102

    ...gave up and switched to iPhone4 7/15/10
  16. #256  
    Quote Originally Posted by LurkerX View Post
    Once again you have no clue about what you are talking about. I want an SSH client on the phone to talk to an SSH server on my work/home computers. With that crap app you were touting I would have to run a web server on my work/home machine for the Pre to talk to. I don't want to run an unneccessary web server. I don't want to run additional services with additional security holes. I want the Pre to talk straight to an SSH server and IT CAN'T with apps developed with the SDK.
    don't either of these work for what you want to do?

    Applicationropbear - WebOS Internals
    Application:OpenSSH - WebOS Internals
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