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  1. #221  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmmorse81 View Post
    yah. The palm being available on at&t and verizon soon won't mean squat. Why would anyone want a pre when they can get a droid or iphone? I loved my pre when I got it. But it just doesn't compare anymore to what I've seen coming out. Sorta sad
    Actually, (and I don't think I'm alone here) Sprint, Verizon and ATT all have good coverage where I live, and where I work.

    When I bought my palm Pre, I was no longer tied to a contract, and had every opportunity to get an iphone, or one of the various android devices out there at the time. (about 2 months ago)

    I CHOSE the Pre, because I liked the Pre.

    I still like the Pre.

    I don't want a droid, because I don't want to carry a cell phone the size of a Ford Escort. (That's like a Ford Anglia for my friends on the other side of the Atlantic)

    The droid is 99% hype guys. Not saying it isn't a good phone, but it's not anything new. Android has been here for a while, and the Droid is just another android phone with an unusual form factor and a really amazingly good marketing. (I really hope the guys who came up with that add campaign got paid well because they deserved it)
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    #222  
    yah man. Agreed. I love how sprint is releasing android phones with 1.6. Old news now sprint. Its time to up the game and actually get a winner phone for once. Where is sprints droid?
  3. #223  
    One very big problem I don't see any impending solution to is that when Android was looked at to move to other carriers, it was with new and exciting hardware with new OS upgrades.

    Palm is going to...move the Pre to Verizon sometime soon. Same OS. Same hardware. It's kinda old already, actually (I know, crazy, right? But the high-end smartphone game is like that).

    We ASSUME a hardware refresh is coming in June of 2010, but they need to start the hype about that ASAP with some targeted leaks. Palm has nothing, absolutely nothing, to gain by playing it close to the chest.
  4. #224  
    Well, I can't tell whether Palm is going to make it or not. I can say that I love this phone, and it fits my needs. I think it's doubtful Palm will ever be on the top in the smartphone market. They don't have to be to be successful. Their business model is predicated on the massive expansion of the smartphone market, which will make room for lots of players.

    So while it may not be the best phone on the market, it just has to be good enough to meet enough people's needs to keep Palm in the black. Are there a lot of people who fit the Pre or the Pixi? I think there are enough, but only time will tell.
  5. #225  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    The droid is 99% hype guys. Not saying it isn't a good phone, but it's not anything new. Android has been here for a while, and the Droid is just another android phone with an unusual form factor and a really amazingly good marketing. (I really hope the guys who came up with that add campaign got paid well because they deserved it)
    Come on, dude. You sound silly.

    Google, released Android 2.0 with a voice search API so developers can use that nice voice recognition technology in ANY third party app. They're releasing a free navigation app that smokes a lot of the market right now. The phone has a keyboard and yet is still no thicker than an iPhone 3GS.

    Just your run of the mill handset. Yep.
  6. #226  
    I watched an early review of the Droid on Attack of the Shows Gadget Pron. The Droid's great capacitive screen has no multi-touch? I'm sure that's not a deal breaker but I thought that would be almost a must for newer touch phones. Also, the thing weighs 6oz! Def something I wouldn't want to carry in my pocket or on my belt. Might as well carry my psp with me lol
  7. #227  
    Well palms days aren't up yet but could be very soon. I don't know what the heck they are doing or planning on doing but compared to the droid and iphone the PRE just plain sucks on paper (looking at it from a potential buyers perspective). The experience, form factor, and webos' potential are its highlights. But thats just not enough. Palm needs to come out with a bang. Say webos 2.0; Webos needs an overhaul badly.


    Faster os
    video recording
    Text forwarding
    Virtual keyboard
    Flash
    gpu
    Add more messaging clients
    Stop relying on 3rd parties for fixes that you should have done-Video recorder
    Sdk improvement
    Implement homebrew ideas and there work ex- Active homescreen, music player remix

    So many things should and could be done. This would make the phone much more favorable, desirable, comparable. not sure what to think right now love my pre. But they better have something to bring to the table cause pre is going to become old news soon.
  8. #228  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Guys, simmer down.

    He's linking to an article from a leading industry blog to start some discussion. It's different from other threads on a similar topic because it's a well-written lengthy editorial from an ostensibly objective and very influential source.

    Not to start an argument, but the Gizmodo article IS being discussed in the very first thread I mentioned. The second article is from his own blog, and from what I can see its not from a leading industry blog.

    Instead of contributing to an existing thread, he decided to promote his blog in a separate thread so that we can re-discuss all of it ad nauseam.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
  9. LurkerX's Avatar
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    #229  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    I again ask, what "must have iPhone apps can't be done in webOS. I will save you the googling and say none.
    I already answered that 2 freaking pages ago, and you came up with some half-arsed apps that were in no way what I was asking for. Your head is totally in the sand. You are a complete fan-boi.
  10. #230  
    Quote Originally Posted by mulcher View Post
    This from Gizmodo today:
    How Palm Lost (Like Apple in the '80s) - Palm pre - Gizmodo

    An article I wrote in geardiary:
    The Palm Pre through the eyes of a former Palm OS Treo Business User*|*Gear Diary

    .....

    Ok, go ahead and flame me and give me valid business reasons why you think I'm wrong.
    While I agree that Palm is in for some challenging times and has made some questionable decisions (JSJSJS/$HTML$ &$quot$;$SDK$&$quot$;, $Sprint$ $Exclusive$) $your$ $article$ $contains$ $numerous$ $factual$ $errors$. $For$ $example$ :

    "You might think of the Palm OS as similar to Windows 95/98. Yes it was graphical, Yes it was productive and feature rich, but it never had a truly protected memory architecture. They did allow apps to run in the background, but thatís usually what caused slowdowns and crashes Ė just like (serious) multitasking would often crash windows 95/98.
    10 years later even the iPhone canít really multitask due to the same overall challenges and issues."

    The iPhone OS architecture is equally or more suitable for multi-tasking as WebOS and it fully supports "a truly protected memory architecture".

    In a related article about the Pixi you stated that the Palm Centro:

    "It had less capability than recently released Treoís. Primarily that the 700p was out and was the first Treo to support 3g. It was a head scratcher when the Centro only support the slower non 3g connections."

    which is complete nonsense. The CDMA versions of the Centro support 3G just like the CDMA versions of the PalmOS Treo, the GSM versions of the Centro support the "2.5G" EDGE standard just like the GSM versions of the PALM OS Treos. Aside from the size, Centros are every bit as powerful as the Treos they replaced and generally less prone to crashing.
  11. #231  
    I agree that the Pre could certainly be snappier. Also it would be nice if the apps could be more robust overall. Let's put things into perspective though. The SDK is in beta, so app development is affectively stunted for now. We also know that the GPU isn't in use, but for all we know that could be fixed in the not too distant future.

    I recently destroyed my Pre (stepped on it and wrecked the screen). While I've been waiting for my insurance replacement from Best Buy (on back order, doh!), I've been using my previous phone: a Sprint Touch Diamond. Let me just say that when I was originally using the Diamond I really liked it. I threw custom ROMs on it, loved the high res screen and even didn't mind the custom onscreen keyboard I was using.

    Well let me tell you. After using the Pre for 3 months going back to my old Diamond has been a nightmare. Want to talk about a buggy OS? Try any version of Windows Mobile. Period. Want to use a terrible screen. Go resistive. Terrible typing experience? Try a onscreen keyboard on said resistive screen. Bad memory management? Check. Multiple restarts a day due to performance issues? Check.

    I could go on and on, but the bottom line is that IMHO there are very few phones that compare to the Pre with WebOS on the market today. Yes the Hero is a nice phone, but it's slow due to old hardware and doesn't multitask as well IMHO. Yeah the Droid is impressive in many ways, but the vanilla Android OS is not appealing to me and once again I'm not seeing the ease of multitasking you get on the Pre. Then there's the iPhone. I love it's smoothness but honestly don't care for it's UI and notification system compared to WebOS.

    Anyway. I can't wait to get my replacement Pre. I miss the browser, messaging, homebrew apps, podcasts, Friendsflow, Music (remix), pandora, awesome notifications and good keyboard.
  12. #232  
    I think Palm is doing it the right way at the moment. Yes its slow and methodical approach is risky. As long as they can turn a profit over the short term, I think they can grow slowly with modest aspirations for the smartphone market. The iphone is bound to multitask next year and I am sure it will be implemented in a spectacular way. The Droid is getting hyped like the Pre was but its quite bland as far as the ui goes. Its large build and its horrible looks might bring it down to earth like the physical issues and slow OS did to the Pre. I hope Palm can push out a more robust webOS phone in June that will be speedy and respond to the issues that longtime Palm loyalists have complained about(email, calender,etc...). It doesn't have to be the iphone killer, it just has to be the Palm saver(again).
    Last edited by Superjudge; 10/29/2009 at 11:41 PM.
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    #233  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Squirrel!!!

    Classic!!
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    #234  
    Great discussion!

    All I will say is that if an Android phpne with a vertical slider is offered on Sprint, I am highly likely to jump ship.

    I just do like rotating my phone for anything except video.
  15. #235  
    Quote Originally Posted by Superjudge View Post
    I think Palm is doing it the right way at the moment. Yes its slow and methodical approach is risky. As long as they can turn a profit over the short term, I think they can grow slowly with modest aspirations for the smartphone market. The iphone is bound to multitask next year and I am sure it will be implemented in a spectacular way. The Droid is getting hyped like the Pre was but its quite bland as far as the ui goes. Its large build and its horrible looks might bring it down to earth like the physical issues and slow OS did to the Pre. I hope Palm can push out a more robust webOS phone in June that will be speedy and respond to the issues that longtime Palm loyalists have complained about(email, calender,etc...). It doesn't have to be the iphone killer, it just has to be the Palm saver(again).
    Palm is far from doing anything the right way.

    It's clear they wanted to go with a mobile web approach. So far, much of that means relying on google. I do remember android being out (that palm could have for free) around the time they started their brainstorming on what to do. Instead Palm looked around and thought they could be the next Apple, creating their own OS, having their own app store, and having control over it all. And proceeded to sink millions into webOS racking up huge debt.

    In a brilliant move, Palm instead resorted to using itunes as its default syncing solution. And using google for its cloud solution. And 3rd party apps for any other solution such as doing something standard as plugging into a computer and syncing outlook. If we really wanted itunes, we'd get an iphone. If we really wanted to move to the google cloud, there's android. Both offer more complete experiences.

    In addition, Palm thought it best to start with cheap plastic hardware. The form factor of the Pre, while looking good on paper, is inherent with problems.

    Palm's past marketing was horrible. And this wouldn't be Palm without more of it. Enter the bizarre commercials with the crazy borg queen.

    Palm decided to go nab Pandora and it's a pretty good app all things considered. But apparently they ran out of money and decided this big name app would anchor their app store for the next year. Let's let these homebrew guys worry about apps instead.

    With not having enough to do in terms of getting drivers going to milk the Pre's gpu or update webOS with standard (years old) features, Palm decides to develop a Pixi. It's cute, it's gimped, it has a different slower processor, it's even got a smaller screen with decreased resolution. That will speed up webOS development for sure and help their app store aspirations. And Palm so needs the lowest end for profit margin and to increase their brand. Brilliant.

    Why stop there? In addition, let's develop both cdma and gsm versions of each and have different versions of webOS on each. Sounds like a win.

    Palm then comes out and reiterates its marketing philosophy. "We target busy people." That's pure genius. While others target the lazy people, Palm slyly points out that they're not competing with Apple, RIM, Android, WM, or any other smartphone OS. Clearly, this is a new market and Palm is the sole competitor. The beta OS market?

    Google Nav comes to light that sends other nav companies stocks a tumbling. Of course there's no excitement about Palm getting this considering the sorry state of the present google maps app on the Pre. Doesn't matter anyways since Palm hasn't felt inclined to worry about an in-car mount or whatever. Too bad its touchstone tech requires a nuclear power source..

    Motorola was Palm on fumes. After going to bed with google for the Droid, they seem very poised going forward and getting ready to launch on the biggest carrier in the US as its flagship. HTC is doing well and cleverly keeping Microsoft happy with its HD2 while promoting its own version of android. Apple and RIM chug along. WM still has it mass of users and wm7 will be coming soon. Nokia is sinking money into a new OS and still dominates the global market. Samsung is into android. Even Dell is rumored with an android coming to AT&T. LG? Yep..android.

    Bottom line, it'll take more than a simple leap in hardware to get Palm back on track. Palm forgot what its in business to do. Sell phones. It didn't need a brand new OS. It didn't need an app store. They simply needed a better OS to work with and put their own touch on it. A year ago, i anticipated an android phone from Palm. It's why i bought so much palm stock. Instead we got webOS which admittedly, impressed me instead from limited demos. But Palm kept things super secret til June. In the few coming months after June, the secret was out...limitations, cheap hardware, flaws and all. This was no android but did have a slick UI and good handle on multitasking. Combined with some of the above reasons though, i quickly sold the stock for a gain. I don't anticipate another opportunity for Palm and given their history, i have no confidence they'd take advantage of one.
    Last edited by cardfan; 10/30/2009 at 07:48 AM.
  16. #236  
    Don't forget everyone's all time favorite shortcut. No real media client; just hack iTunes. WebOS is one big shortcut.
  17. mulcher's Avatar
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       #237  
    Quote Originally Posted by stockh View Post
    I'm not a programmer so I'm not sure what I'm missing.

    Can you please explain what programs can be written and what would be the advantages if Palm were to allow "native" apps, vs html,javascript,css?

    I read alot of complaining but not alot of justification for opening up the sdk, please enlighten me.
    Simple example..
    Virtually every decent game in the iphone catalog
    Mark F Chinsky
  18. #238  
    Quote Originally Posted by LurkerX View Post
    Sorry, no, that's not the same at all. It requires you to run a web server on the machine you want to control to pass on the SSH data. You can' tunnel over it, etc, etc, etc. It's crap.
    The entire OS is a web server. How do you think everything is being rendered?



    Quote Originally Posted by LurkerX View Post
    Which requires you to run some strange accompanying sever software on your home machine of unknown quality/security. Once again, this is not what was asked for.
    The point is it is possible, just no there yet. If remote control can be done RDP can be done.

    My main point is we can't just say X is not possible on javascript so it can't be done on webOS. Mojo passes a bunch of calls to lower API's to get data. As more of these API's open up we will see better apps.

    And as we also have seen there are apps that are getting even lower level access to the OS (Classic for example). The fact that these even exist show that non javascript exclusive apps can and already are being written for webOS.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  19. #239  
    Quote Originally Posted by LurkerX View Post
    I already answered that 2 freaking pages ago, and you came up with some half-arsed apps that were in no way what I was asking for. Your head is totally in the sand. You are a complete fan-boi.
    A fan-boi would be hating on the other handsets which I don't. I like Android and even the iPhone to a certain extent. I just like the direction Palm and webOS are heading.

    Just a quick question. Are you a developer? Have you been trying to work with the SDK and have had issues?
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  20. #240  
    Quote Originally Posted by mulcher View Post
    Simple example..
    Virtually every decent game in the iphone catalog
    It makes you wonder how the whole flash piece will pan out. If it is GPU accelerated for more than just video decoding we could see some pretty decent games.

    I personally could care less about games on my phone other than the time killers like Solitaire, Tetris, etc...which are easily done in javascript.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
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