Page 10 of 13 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 LastLast
Results 181 to 200 of 256
  1. #181  
    Said it before, but here goes again. If Palm wants people to grow with em, then they need some killer quality hardware to help compensate for features that webOS is lacking, the bit of lag, the lack of apps, etc.

    Had this not been the Pixi but instead an HD2 or better specced like device, then that is worth looking at. The brilliant screen alone for the Pre made me hesitate returning it although i did eventually.

    All releasing the Pixi does is take from Pre sales. Both the Pre and Pixi are pretty much targeting the same market...beginner smartphone users. Though the Pixi is even more narrow focused on the cheapest end.

    I still would've kept the Pre on the low end and looked at a higher end form factor instead (or do nothing and instead focus on Pre). Smartphone users will pay for quality. Now there's this sick feeling that being a cheap plastic toy will define Palm. Targeting low end will affect Palm's brand and further concerns that they won't be able to produce a profit.

    BTW..there's basically a flat slab like the iphone, brick like Treo with killer kb, or landscape slider. Pick one. Personally, i don't feel like webOS is ready to be that business Treo yet. That's leaves the other two though a solid virtual kb is needed. Go for broke in making the best quality (and specs) you can and charge accordingly. That's the smartphone that could get me back to webOS. That's the high end of the smartphone market that Palm needs to focus on. That's the leap Palm needs to make.

    I did get this sense of arrogance from Palm that was refreshing to see earlier this year when they felt they could charge higher for the Pre than the iphone with confidence. I think they crashed to earth since then but i'd like to see it return and then back it up this time.

    Sorry for the rant, JMO. I do understand the slow gimped Pixi will be cute for many with all the designer colors. But that's not my idea of a smartphone or even a good path to take to eliminate net losses. It's a huge mistake for many reasons and i think time will tell.
  2. #182  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    All releasing the Pixi does is take from Pre sales. Both the Pre and Pixi are pretty much targeting the same market...beginner smartphone users.
    I have to disagree with this sentiment. While I agree that the Pre hardware does not feel as polished as the iPhone, it feels in my opinion as good or better than most of the Android offerings. And the WebOS platform is definitely not a beginner level OS.

    I feel the market for beginner smartphone users has been cornered largely by RIM, not Palm. Look around...my former boss was the typical corporate old school manager who could not turn on a computer, but he cannot live without his Blackberry. When I see the soccer mom crowd pulling out a smartphone, it usually is a Blackberry Curve. The BB platform feels dated to someone like me (I carry a Bold in addition to my Pre), but to a novice, it is ideal. Easy to use, easy to set up, and just enough features to offer a smartphone experience without getting overly complicated. My wife hates my Pre, as she finds it a bit intimidating, but loves her Curve.

    My hope is that the Pixi will cut into that beginner market, as most of the people who find the Pre or iPhone initimidating are the ones who don't like a touchscreen experience. By putting the keyboard front and center like a Blackberry, they may be able to sway some of the Blackberry users back.
  3. #183  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I own a G1 and have followed the Android Market from day 1. In the beginning it was really boring and even worse than Palm's app catalog. Only in recent months it started moving. Of all the apps on there there are only a handful of apps I consider useful. I don't need to search the other 70,000 on the App Store.

    The reality is that most of these 10s of thousands of apps are toys, and only a few genuinely useful. And most of the useful ones are a good fit for webOS.
    ALL of the many Android apps I have come to love thus far would be a GREAT fit for WebOS. So would the iPhone ones I like.

    Is there a chance these will start appear on Pre anytime soon? For the vast majority of them...no.

    And again, you miss the point about the sheer volume. If it takes THAT many apps for those platforms to get a good handful, how sucky will the WebOS App catalog be when it is stuck with a tiny fraction of those, a crippled SDK, and no change to either in sight?
  4. #184  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gr3yGhOsT View Post
    I have to disagree with this sentiment. While I agree that the Pre hardware does not feel as polished as the iPhone, it feels in my opinion as good or better than most of the Android offerings. And the WebOS platform is definitely not a beginner level OS.
    WebOS is definitely not an intermediate or advanced level OS currently. Most apps have little to no options, and there are few additional apps to add functionality.

    My hope is that the Pixi will cut into that beginner market, as most of the people who find the Pre or iPhone initimidating are the ones who don't like a touchscreen experience. By putting the keyboard front and center like a Blackberry, they may be able to sway some of the Blackberry users back.
    Why would somebody who finds the Pre to be "intimidating" buy a Pixi? Same OS. Same apps. Same keyboard, only it is exposed. Same lack of buttons. Same look and feel. It makes no sense.
  5. #185  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    ALL of the many Android apps I have come to love thus far would be a GREAT fit for WebOS. So would the iPhone ones I like.

    Is there a chance these will start appear on Pre anytime soon? For the vast majority of them...no.

    And again, you miss the point about the sheer volume. If it takes THAT many apps for those platforms to get a good handful, how sucky will the WebOS App catalog be when it is stuck with a tiny fraction of those, a crippled SDK, and no change to either in sight?
    Take the top 50 iPhone apps that aren't games, and tell me one that can't be done on webOS using their current SDK. This would assume Palm will be openeing up access to things like the microphone and video recording soon. (Which they are)
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  6. #186  
    It seems that mikah's argument is that we must first have piles of junk to draw in the masses and then the established vendors will step in with solid apps.

    But the junk has to be magical, a-la Shazzam, which requires a more advanced SDK.
  7. #187  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    Take the top 50 iPhone apps that aren't games, and tell me one that can't be done on webOS using their current SDK. This would assume Palm will be openeing up access to things like the microphone and video recording soon. (Which they are)
    Are you kidding? Sure, let's assume away all of the problems by assuming that Palm will be fixing them soon.

    Look, it has now been thoroughly documented that the current SDK is lacking. You're in denial for some odd reason.

    We're all hoping for some improvement in WebOS, but some of you want to stick your heads in the sand and exclaim that everything is perfect right now. I honestly don't get it.
  8. #188  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    It seems that mikah's argument is that we must first have piles of junk to draw in the masses and then the established vendors will step in with solid apps.

    But the junk has to be magical, a-la Shazzam, which requires a more advanced SDK.
    No, you're misunderstanding his argument.

    What he is saying is that if even with a full-fledged SDK and tens of thousands of apps you only end up with a few decent ones (false, but whatever), then the prospects for Palm's far, far smaller catalog and crippled SDK are very dim indeed.
  9. #189  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    It seems that mikah's argument is that we must first have piles of junk to draw in the masses and then the established vendors will step in with solid apps.

    But the junk has to be magical, a-la Shazzam, which requires a more advanced SDK.
    Magical? A lot of these apps have been out for years now. WebOS just isn't capable yet and it may be a long time before it is. Why should people be willing to give Palm months just to get an old app like shazam? Palm is still puzzled how to get sounds to work with apps.

    Meanwhile, android 2.0 isn't waiting around trying to get itself ready to run old apps. It's got google navigation on board now for example which basically looks as if it could blow other nav apps away. Other reports indicate google is working with Apple to get it on the iphone. No mention of Palm. No mention of it anywhere on Precentral. Iphone blogs are all over this.
  10. #190  
    Quote Originally Posted by awesomepatrol View Post
    We're all hoping for some improvement in WebOS, but some of you want to stick your heads in the sand and exclaim that everything is perfect right now.
    Wow, there's a straw man if I ever heard one.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  11. #191  
    Quote Originally Posted by awesomepatrol View Post
    No, you're misunderstanding his argument.

    What he is saying is that if even with a full-fledged SDK and tens of thousands of apps you only end up with a few decent ones (false, but whatever), then the prospects for Palm's far, far smaller catalog and crippled SDK are very dim indeed.
    DING!

    Folks, NO software library on ANY platform is chock-full of nothing but AAA titles. The Law of Averages comes into play, and the more developers and companies making apps - even crappy fart and soundboard ones - the better chances you have of getting the highest quality apps at the best prices. Some 4th or 5th place niche OS isn't going to have the hottest developers busting their balls to develop for it, if they touch it at all. You are guaranteed to pay more for apps that give you less.

    It's fine to say Palm WILL open the SDK or apps WILL come at some indeterminate point in the future. What WILL also happen is that Android and iPhone software libraries will continue to grow at an exponential rate. These are OSes backed by huge companies with a lot of influence.

    For the forseeable future, Palm apps will be devoid of advanced 3D graphics, sound, mic interaction, and many other things that could make this platform competitive and different. Oh, you can look up restaurant reviews, find your car, get movie showtimes, and stream Pandora? SO CAN EVERYBODY ELSE.
  12. #192  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Wow, there's a straw man if I ever heard one.


    You guys are hopeless. Why learn to read complicated novels when we have these TEH AWESOME POP-UP BOOKS!@$!@*
  13. #193  
    Quote Originally Posted by doublebullout View Post
    Palm better stop navel-gazing and better get moving fast if they want webOS to survive. End of story.
    And that's my point: do you really think that Palm is "navel-gazing"? Or, moving more slowly than they're capable? I highly doubt it.

    In a nutshell, again: yes, Palm might very well fail. Pre and WebOS may be too little, too late. I think any reasonable person understands that, and indeed it's really pretty obvious.

    But all of the admonitions on this site for Palm to do something faster than they're capable--particularly, the "Palm give us [insert functionality here] NOW!!!!" posts--are wastes of bits, completely unreasonable and smack of an entitlement mentality, and, frankly, quite annoying. And anyone who feels compelled to assert--over and over--that Palm is failing so miserably to compete should probably do what their own posts argue for--move on to the iPhone or Android or whatever and stop polluting this site.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  14. #194  
    So how do we explain the existence of a Palm OS application market?

    Apple's strategy is providing an SDK that delivers bells and whistles and an iTunes-like App Store which combine to create a mass market of cheap games and toy apps, and by that forcing everyone else to be a niche player.

    But Palm has been a niche player before. Why isn't this viable anymore?
  15. #195  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    And that's my point: do you really think that Palm is "navel-gazing"? Or, moving more slowly than they're capable? I highly doubt it.

    In a nutshell, again: yes, Palm might very well fail. Pre and WebOS may be too little, too late. I think any reasonable person understands that, and indeed it's really pretty obvious.

    But all of the admonitions on this site for Palm to do something faster than they're capable--particularly, the "Palm give us [insert functionality here] NOW!!!!" posts--are wastes of bits, completely unreasonable and smack of an entitlement mentality, and, frankly, quite annoying. And anyone who feels compelled to assert--over and over--that Palm is failing so miserably to compete should probably do what their own posts argue for--move on to the iPhone or Android or whatever and stop polluting this site.
    Actually a lot of my critical posts concern what Palm had plenty of power to do or control. Choice of cheap plastic hardware, horrible marketing at every point, missed opportunities, huge mistake of even developing the Pixi, etc.

    It's a given though that webOS development won't happen overnight. But they didn't have to make it more problematic or ship out poor hardware as we go through the webOS growing pains.

    When it comes to apps, i didn't have many complaints as i didn't expect much except maybe Palm to try to partner up with some bigger name apps to anchor things or buy some time for them.

    At this point, its probably too little too late barring some incredible leap in hardware taken in 2010 but that's just merely plugging one hole of a ship that's sinking fast. Palm needs a CEO who gets the big picture.
  16. #196  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    So how do we explain the existence of a Palm OS application market?

    Apple's strategy is providing an SDK that delivers bells and whistles and an iTunes-like App Store which combine to create a mass market of cheap games and toy apps, and by that forcing everyone else to be a niche player.

    But Palm has been a niche player before. Why isn't this viable anymore?
    Because mobile app development is a COMPLETELY different game now with new price points, a new delivery model, and apps being a KEY differentiator between platforms in a way it wasn't before.
  17. #197  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Because mobile app development is a COMPLETELY different game now with new price points, a new delivery model, and apps being a KEY differentiator between platforms in a way it wasn't before.
    That's a tenuous argument. All the App Store has wrought so far is a race to the bottom. It hasn't shown to be a viable business model for ISVs.
  18. #198  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    That's a tenuous argument. All the App Store has wrought so far is a race to the bottom. It hasn't shown to be a viable business model for ISVs.
    Irrelevant. It IS the model platforms are adapting going forward, it HAS changed the delivery/distribution of apps, and quantity and name brand quality of apps does matter now in a way it didn't during the peak of Palm OS.
  19. #199  
    I suppose you're right. It's a new economy where business models and revenues are irrelevant.
  20. #200  
    Quote Originally Posted by awesomepatrol View Post
    Are you kidding? Sure, let's assume away all of the problems by assuming that Palm will be fixing them soon.

    Look, it has now been thoroughly documented that the current SDK is lacking. You're in denial for some odd reason.

    We're all hoping for some improvement in WebOS, but some of you want to stick your heads in the sand and exclaim that everything is perfect right now. I honestly don't get it.
    I am not in denial, I am just someone who has a high level of knowledge on the subject having been an engineer in the tech field for the past 10 years. The only reason why I brought up the video and mic API's is that Agile messenger is supposed to have these features when released, which would mean there will have to be an API for it to work.

    I again ask, what "must have iPhone apps can't be done in webOS. I will save you the googling and say none.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo

Posting Permissions