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  1. reidme's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyg View Post
    Even C++ developers need to make adjustments for the Objective-C required for iPhone development. If those developers can adjust for that programming language change, I bet they can handle brushing up on their JavaScript.
    I'm sure they can, but then they are moving from a compiled language that creates efficient apps to an interpreted language that makes bigger, slower apps. If you have to learn something new either way then that negates the "webOS is easier" advantage.
  2. sbono13's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by acipollo View Post
    Jumping back and forth between apps is just as fast because no swipe to minimize, find, open and then swipe again.
    I love the Pre but the Hero can do so much more and do it easier.
    Curious how you accomplish jumping back-and-forth between open apps on the Hero. I've played with one at the Sprint store, and while I like many things about it, I find the multitasking a bit inaccessible. It seems to me that, like a Win Mob phone, you don't really know which apps are running in the background, and the only way to go back to a background app is to tap the icon as if you were launching it new. Am I missing something?

    I understand that there are third party task-managers/task switchers (like there are on WinMob), but that inserts an intermediate step between switching apps. To put the multitasking front-and-center in Sense UI (like it is in WebOS), I'd love to see a task switching widget that you could put on the first homescreen. It could be text list or icons, but live thumbnails would be even better.
  3. Xyg
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by reidme View Post
    I'm sure they can, but then they are moving from a compiled language that creates efficient apps to an interpreted language that makes bigger, slower apps. If you have to learn something new either way then that negates the "webOS is easier" advantage.
    Really, read Acceleroto's blog post. They detail the differences between developing for webOS vs iPhone OS. Further, Palm's targeting of people with knowledge of web development is indeed a smart call; every third person you pass on the street is probably a web developer, and the barrier of entry to Mojo is far less significant for those folks than hopping into Obj-C.
  4. reidme's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyg View Post
    Really, read Acceleroto's blog post. They detail the differences between developing for webOS vs iPhone OS. Further, Palm's targeting of people with knowledge of web development is indeed a smart call; every third person you pass on the street is probably a web developer, and the barrier of entry to Mojo is far less significant for those folks than hopping into Obj-C.
    And it shows in the average quality level of apps so far. Most are no more than glorified web pages.
  5. Xyg
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by reidme View Post
    And it shows in the average quality level of apps so far. Most are no more than glorified web pages.
    As opposed the average quality level of apps on other platforms?
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyg View Post
    As opposed the average quality level of apps on other platforms?
    So far the apps for the pre have not really been that spectacular. No big graphics or anything, nothing entirely complex. Whereas on say the Iphone. Pretty darn complex for some of them.

    question of my own here: is javascript just not capable of making anything as complex as some of the most complex apps? or is it possible?
    Last edited by cnote1287; 10/19/2009 at 02:59 PM.
  7. reidme's Avatar
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyg View Post
    As opposed the average quality level of apps on other platforms?
    Exactly.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by cnote1287 View Post
    So far the apps for the pre have not really been that spectacular. No big graphics or anything, nothing entirely complex. Whereas on say the Iphone. Pretty darn complex for some of them.

    question of my own here: is javascript just not capable of making anything as complex as some of the most complex apps? or is it possible?
    +1 on that... Im not really impressed with the apps so far... I have only purchased 1... the sports callender because its something I will actually use because I have a horrible memory.. I think the most appealing apps were the ones that came with the phone originally. May buy DEALERT too based on reviews...
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyg View Post
    Really, read Acceleroto's blog post. They detail the differences between developing for webOS vs iPhone OS. Further, Palm's targeting of people with knowledge of web development is indeed a smart call; every third person you pass on the street is probably a web developer, and the barrier of entry to Mojo is far less significant for those folks than hopping into Obj-C.
    You have to realize though, someone who is learning how to program might find mojo less intimidating, but that is because it can do much less than objective-c and C++ can.

    C++ is an object-oriented programming language. Objective-C is basically an object-oriented C. If you know C++ and how object-oriented languages work, you should have NO trouble picking up objective-C. It seriously took me a week to learn objective-C and the iPhone sdk (at least what I needed from the SDK).

    I am not trying to say that Software Developers are better than Web Developers, but the two are COMPLETELY different camps. There is no way I could write half of the things I work on in HTML/JavaScript. It's not that I can't learn HTML or JavaScript, it is just that those languages are limited, and there are many things in C++/Objective-C that you cannot do in HTML/JavaScript.

    Needless to say, if I do end up getting a Palm Pre (I am leaning toward Android currently), I would learn the SDK and probably develop a few apps.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    I definitely agree that the Pre could get faster. I'm optimistic that it will. I think using the GPU would be a large plus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Until the GPU is utilized, the "slight" sluggishness sometimes happens on the Pre will remain.

    But yeah, it has to be the GPU i'd imagine. The ZuneHD with Tegra is simply the most responsive touch screen i've used and i'd imagine the GPU has something to do with that.
    A GPU is designed to run COMPILED code super fast and efficiently. The Pre doesn't use compiled code, so trying to utilize the GPU is kind of pointless. It likely is not going to run javascript any faster.

    They can keep optimizing the javascript engine on the pre to be faster, but there is not going to be a magical breakthrough or switch with the GPU that suddenly leaps WebOS forward in performance.

    The only way you will see a leap in performance is if Palm develops and releases a compiled language/SDK to work on the Pre.

    Quote Originally Posted by reidme View Post
    I agree that was their thinking, but I think it was flawed in another way also. WebOS makes developing apps somewhat easier for web developers, but not necessarily for application developers who are used to C++. Which crowd should they be courting?
    If Palm had gone the C++ route, they would have had/have a MUCH bigger uphill battle for getting apps in their app catalog. Sure, C++ can do many more cool things, but it also takes a lot more work which = a lot more money which = most app developers out there would take a "wait and see" approach to the Pre.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by acipollo View Post
    I wish I knew what you mean by sluggish. My Hero is just as fast if not faster than most things I do on my Pre. If I'm on a call and I need to do something else, I hit the home button and I immediately have access to everything. No minimizing a card and waiting for a new one to open. Jumping back and forth between apps is just as fast because no swipe to minimize, find, open and then swipe again.
    I love the Pre but the Hero can do so much more and do it easier.
    Are you kidding me?!? I got a hands on with the Hero for about 30 minutes from my Sprint guy who was showing it off (he has the Pre and Hero as he is hte manager at the retail store, ended up telling him to throw the Hero in the trash and stick with Pre...here is why)...so I get it in hand...

    First thing I notice is that when I bring up the apps is that the phone pauses for a sec, then brings up the icons, so I "jog" to the next icons, and it lags them up slowly. The phone buttons when pressed were worse then the Pres were before they updated them...press...wiat....press...if you press too fast you miss a number.

    The Hero I have to admit has a GREAT way of doing the homescreens and by implementing the "Jog" ball to scroll to each makes it awesome, the pres will never be able to do that with such ease...

    BUT after playing with this phone just using the OS itself with the hardware I must say the PRE is way better and ahead of the Hero in every aspect except apps, homescreen, and maybe GPU gaming for now.

    NEXT!!! Maybe the Samsung Moment will bring something better, until then...rock on PALM!!!
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Merton View Post
    You have to realize though, someone who is learning how to program might find mojo less intimidating, but that is because it can do much less than objective-c and C++ can.

    C++ is an object-oriented programming language. Objective-C is basically an object-oriented C. If you know C++ and how object-oriented languages work, you should have NO trouble picking up objective-C. It seriously took me a week to learn objective-C and the iPhone sdk (at least what I needed from the SDK).

    I am not trying to say that Software Developers are better than Web Developers, but the two are COMPLETELY different camps. There is no way I could write half of the things I work on in HTML/JavaScript. It's not that I can't learn HTML or JavaScript, it is just that those languages are limited, and there are many things in C++/Objective-C that you cannot do in HTML/JavaScript.

    Needless to say, if I do end up getting a Palm Pre (I am leaning toward Android currently), I would learn the SDK and probably develop a few apps.
    Sooo we probably aren't going to get any really cool apps with intense 3D animations then?
  13. Xyg
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Merton View Post
    You have to realize though, someone who is learning how to program might find mojo less intimidating, but that is because it can do much less than objective-c and C++ can.

    C++ is an object-oriented programming language. Objective-C is basically an object-oriented C. If you know C++ and how object-oriented languages work, you should have NO trouble picking up objective-C. It seriously took me a week to learn objective-C and the iPhone sdk (at least what I needed from the SDK).

    I am not trying to say that Software Developers are better than Web Developers, but the two are COMPLETELY different camps. There is no way I could write half of the things I work on in HTML/JavaScript. It's not that I can't learn HTML or JavaScript, it is just that those languages are limited, and there are many things in C++/Objective-C that you cannot do in HTML/JavaScript.

    Needless to say, if I do end up getting a Palm Pre (I am leaning toward Android currently), I would learn the SDK and probably develop a few apps.
    JavaScript is an object oriented language as well. As the Mojo framework grows out of its infancy, you'll see more robust and powerful applications. Keep in mind there's still a big 'ol Beta banner across the top right of the App Catalog when you first launch it.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I wouldn't hold my breath for EA Sports Madden 2010 for WebOS, especially since the new Pixi is going to be 440X320 landscape so half of the WebOS units out there are going to have 40 pixels chopped off.
    Thats probably the last reason why we won't see Madden 2010 on a WebOS device. Remember, WebOS scales windows with ease.


    We won't see it unless Palm opens up their API's to allow direct access to the CPU/GPU.

    Palm, since January of this year, have said gaming is not a main focus of the Pre.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by cnote1287 View Post
    Sooo we probably aren't going to get any really cool apps with intense 3D animations then?
    An object-oriented programming language has nothing to do with graphics. The term "object" is a very abstract term in computer science.

    The two main camps of programming are: structured programming and object-oriented programming. Both are completely different methodologies of writing code. Most software developers (including myself) work with object-oriented languages because object-oriented programming is awesome and makes things easy.

    I am sorry I cannot explain it better and in more simpler terms, but just to get an idea, I have studied object-oriented languages for multiple semesters in college.
  16. a1aone's Avatar
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    #36  
    Palm does need too get things in motion.. fast!
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Merton View Post
    An object-oriented programming language has nothing to do with graphics. The term "object" is a very abstract term in computer science.

    The two main camps of programming are: structured programming and object-oriented programming. Both are completely different methodologies of writing code. Most software developers (including myself) work with object-oriented languages because object-oriented programming is awesome and makes things easy.

    I am sorry I cannot explain it better and in more simpler terms, but just to get an idea, I have studied object-oriented languages for multiple semesters in college.
    Well i wasn't exactly referring to the lack of "object" in my question. (I actually just started learning C++ not too long ago and soon javascript so i have some limited background into some programming). My main question was that it's said that Javascript isn't "as powerful" as C, so that would mean that the types of apps would be "less powerful" also right?
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by bikini View Post
    First the sprint version of Hero is so ugly...
    2nd, Hero is not a real multi-task phone, please do some research.
    3rd, Hero is using the old processor from 2 or 3 years ago.
    First, design is by a matter of opinion only; personally I like the look and feel of Sprint's version of the Hero. It feels great in the hand.

    Secondly, not sure where you get off that it's not a TRUE multi-tasking phone, I can multi-task on it just fine. Because it's not card/window based like the Pre or your typical desktop doesn't mean it's not multi-taskable by any means.

    The fact about using old architecture stands true, but what also stands true is it runs better than the Pre.

    I don't own the Hero, I own a Pre but my fiance owns a Hero so I've gotten to play around on it more than enough. I'm giving palm another month or so to see what direction they're going to take WebOS, but from a developer standpoint Android is looking more attractive, especially with the market it is gaining (every carrier in the US by the end of the year).

    You almost come off as bad as an Apple/iPhone ******.
    Just my $0.02.

    Edit: Funny how the forum censors fanb0i.
  19. #39  
    ummm, noone is stopping Palm from releasing a revised hardware with a faster processor to compete.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyg View Post
    JavaScript is an object oriented language as well. As the Mojo framework grows out of its infancy, you'll see more robust and powerful applications. Keep in mind there's still a big 'ol Beta banner across the top right of the App Catalog when you first launch it.
    Ah, cheers on the JavaScript clarification.

    I know Java is OO-language, but I didn't know if JavaScript was. I don't think I have ever worked with JavaScript (I am a C/C++ guy).
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