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  1.    #1  
    Not being a troll, I hate the iphone, had one and I hated the itunes crap. I only am asking if anyone thinks we will get apps as good as android phones or iphone soon, like within this year??? I really have to say the apps are very outdated and WAY behind. Hopefully Palm gets on it soon, because the Htc hero is looking good if nothing happens in a year!!
  2. geogray's Avatar
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    #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiijedi View Post
    Not being a troll, I hate the iphone, had one and I hated the itunes crap. I only am asking if anyone thinks we will get apps as good as android phones or iphone soon, like within this year??? I really have to say the apps are very outdated and WAY behind. Hopefully Palm gets on it soon, because the Htc hero is looking good if nothing happens in a year!!
    Umm...have you checked out the App Catalog lately? There are about 125 apps there and, I believe, over 200 on this site. No, it is not the 80K that Apple boasts for iffyphone, but it is a start. Remember, the phone has only been on the market since June and the SDK only a few months.
  3. #3  
    Give it time. It took "A" years to get were they are today. And YES, Palm will run over apple in time. The WebOS is as open source as it could be and they have even dropped fees for the app cat submissions.
  4. #4  
    I had the G1 when it came out, and there were only a handful of apps on the Android market. Everyone was complaining and worrying about apps. It took a while to pick up steam and now it does fine. It just takes time to reach critical mass, and then the big companies start noticing and putting resources into it. No guarantees it will happen but it's too early to worry.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  5. Menso's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by geogray View Post
    Umm...have you checked out the App Catalog lately? There are about 125 apps there and, I believe, over 200 on this site.
    And the majority of all the apps on the app catalog at this time aren't very good. Look at the top 10 highest rated apps in the app catalog. A joke. The threadstarter is right, if it doesn't get any better the HTC Hero looks like my savior.

    Granted, the app catalog is still very very young and will most probably improve as time goes on and as Palm improves the tools for phone. Hopefully.
  6.    #6  
    Thanks Menso!!! Glad someone agrees
  7. licotto's Avatar
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    #7  
    He's the ONLY one that does!!!! If you don't have patience, then by all means go with the Hero! This is a premier device on it's baby cycle of life. Either help with solutions or go with something else.
  8.    #8  
    I have tons of patience and i was just asking people's opinions....I mean seriously theres not even a shazam app!!
  9. #9  
    my opinion is that people are becoming spoiled brats, demand too much too soon. some don't have common sense... they want it NOW and don't realize that stuff takes time to develop. if palm's app catalog is an extension of apple's app catalog, then not having 80k of (mostly useless) apps would be a valid complaint.

    its like having a field of apple trees for several seasons and then people griping that you don't have enough or any good oranges when the first orange tree was only planted this season.

    its like your wife having a baby and being mad that its not a strong athletic star athlete because he's only a day old.

    its like when ps3 came out and xbox360 came out a prior and people complaining the ps3 didn't have as many titles as the 360 because the console JUST launched.

    its like when 1080p tv's just came out and people complaining there aren't 50000 1080p stations.

    i can make many more analogies... they all sound just as silly.
    Last edited by turbooxide; 10/10/2009 at 09:27 PM.
  10. #10  
    great point turbo I believe the issue is that the sticker price on the phone is not justified by the phones functionality. I believe the question asked was, whether this phone would be able to compete in this market this day and age or in two years? I agree that there is potential with web os but I feel that it is coming along too slow and that the phone is not worth the $450 that I paid for it (although that is most likely why they dropped the price). If palm does not open the sdk for the developers we will remain in atari land for a while.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by turbooxide View Post
    my opinion is that people are becoming spoiled brats, demand too much too soon. some don't have common sense... they want it NOW and don't realize that stuff takes time to develop. if palm's app catalog is an extension of apple's app catalog, then not having 80k of (mostly useless) apps would be a valid complaint.

    its like having a field of apple trees for several seasons and then people griping that you don't have enough or any good oranges when the first orange tree was only planted this season.

    its like your wife having a baby and being mad that its not a strong athletic star athlete because he's only a day old.

    its like when ps3 came out and xbox360 came out a prior and people complaining the ps3 didn't have as many titles as the 360 because the console JUST launched.

    its like when 1080p tv's just came out and people complaining there aren't 50000 1080p stations.

    i can make many more analogies... they all sound just as silly.
    Here's the problem.

    We realize apps take time to develop. But your perspective above assumes that WebOS, iPhone, and Android developers all started from equal points. They didn't.

    Android developers started with a full SDK (a month before the G1 was even released, if I remember correctly).
    iPhone developers started with a full SDK (months after the iPhone release, but they made up for that delay IN SPADES).

    WebOS developers are starting with a crippled beta SDK shunting apps into a BETA app store four months later.

    No mic access, no GPU access, no OpenGL...they have one hand tied behind their backs compared to other app stores. And the cruel irony is that Palm is one of three companies (RIM and Apple being the other two) that control both the hardware and software from the ground up. You couldn't tell by the current SDK. Nor could you tell how powerful the Pre hardware is by the apps developed for it. Its guts are nigh identical to an iPhone 3GS, but the apps make it seem like its running a 201mhz Qualcomm chip in comparison.

    And there is no timetable for when this will change. Meanwhile, Android and Apple aren't standing still. Android will hit a 2.0 plateau in 2010, and 800mhz-1ghz processors will become standard with a huge app market and full SDK. Who knows what Apple will be doing at that point? Palm MIGHT catch up to the performance of an iPhone 3G by then.

    Maybe.

    You can counsel patience, but it's clear that Palm is running behind and not closing the gap as of yet.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Here's the problem.

    We realize apps take time to develop. But your perspective above assumes that WebOS, iPhone, and Android developers all started from equal points. They didn't.

    Android developers started with a full SDK (a month before the G1 was even released, if I remember correctly).
    iPhone developers started with a full SDK (months after the iPhone release, but they made up for that delay IN SPADES).

    WebOS developers are starting with a crippled beta SDK shunting apps into a BETA app store four months later.

    No mic access, no GPU access, no OpenGL...they have one hand tied behind their backs compared to other app stores. And the cruel irony is that Palm is one of three companies (RIM and Apple being the other two) that control both the hardware and software from the ground up. You couldn't tell by the current SDK. Nor could you tell how powerful the Pre hardware is by the apps developed for it. Its guts are nigh identical to an iPhone 3GS, but the apps make it seem like its running a 201mhz Qualcomm chip in comparison.

    And there is no timetable for when this will change. Meanwhile, Android and Apple aren't standing still. Android will hit a 2.0 plateau in 2010, and 800mhz-1ghz processors will become standard with a huge app market and full SDK. Who knows what Apple will be doing at that point? Palm MIGHT catch up to the performance of an iPhone 3G by then.

    Maybe.

    You can counsel patience, but it's clear that Palm is running behind and not closing the gap as of yet.
    Well, iPhone OS comes from a long running lineage and Google bought Android and just had to put the finishing touches on it. WebOS has about a year and half development in it and in some ways its underlying assumptions are unproven. WebOS is a big gamble.

    But practically speaking, games aside, what has Apple done with the iPhone since it came out? Not a whole lot that indicates revolutionary advancements. Their big achievement was bringing Mac OS X to a mobile device in 2007.

    The Pre's guts are well utilized in allowing Palm to use a browser for their runtime. That wouldn't have been possible on lesser hardware. I'm just saying, the hardware is primarily a driver of a platform that really requires that kind of power. And by using this platform Palm could afford to release a new OS. It couldn't have happened otherwise.

    So what's in it for users? It will pay off if webOS attracts the developers that worked on web apps for the last few years and bring that pace of innovation to the device. That innovation, incidentally, did not involve desktop type applications, with all their use of Open GL and the GPU.

    It's a risky bet, but in my view, there is a lot to be done in this space. I personally would like to see Palm put resources strictly into HTML5 and webKit.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  13. #13  
    The Pre's guts are well-utilized? The GPU sits dormant, memory leaks in the browser (and other apps) occasionally limit this "multitasking" OS to one or even NO cards, and the camera and microphone APIs aren't readily available to developers.

    Meanwhile, Apple has brought 3D gaming to smartphones with name brand titles like C&C: Red Alert, Rock Band and Metal Gear Solid. They still have the most robust SDK, and they're STILL the only company that combines high-powered hardware, fancy, mature software, AND content readily available with music, movies, and apps available through their sync software.

    And I say that as someone who only owns an iPod Touch and barely uses it. I want Palm to succeed, but the glacial SDK development is doing them no favors. One glance at the App Catalog confirms this.
  14. #14  
    Don't forget you could register Classic and have access ro 40,000 legacy PalmOS apps including some very cool games.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The Pre's guts are well-utilized? The GPU sits dormant, memory leaks in the browser (and other apps) occasionally limit this "multitasking" OS to one or even NO cards, and the camera and microphone APIs aren't readily available to developers.
    Yes, I know. But my point is that the hardware is not there primarily for games so concluding from the hardware that Palm planned but failed to deliver games is not true.

    Meanwhile, Apple has brought 3D gaming to smartphones with name brand titles like C&C: Red Alert, Rock Band and Metal Gear Solid. They still have the most robust SDK, and they're STILL the only company that combines high-powered hardware, fancy, mature software, AND content readily available with music, movies, and apps available through their sync software.

    And I say that as someone who only owns an iPod Touch and barely uses it. I want Palm to succeed, but the glacial SDK development is doing them no favors. One glance at the App Catalog confirms this.
    If you're barely using your iPod doesn't it mean that all the glitz Apple is providing is unimportant? Will the knowledge of useless apps and games existing in the app catalog make you sleep better at night?

    I know exactly what I'm looking forward to, robust PIM apps and bugs fixed. I'd be very happy just to have that, even if not a single game ever ran on my Pre. Nothing is stopping Palm from achieving this with the current SDK. What do you need that the current SDK can't deliver?

    I look at my G1 and there is nothing on it that can't be done in webOS. And the apps I'd want to use on the iPhone are also ones that could easily be done on webOS. The real problem is with Palm being forced to play on Apple's terms, sinking huge resources into an app store and supporting developers writing JavaScript games.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  16. Menso's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by licotto View Post
    He's the ONLY one that does!!!! If you don't have patience, then by all means go with the Hero! This is a premier device on it's baby cycle of life. Either help with solutions or go with something else.
    No, I'm not the only one who does. If you take a look around the forum you'll see there are quite a few people who feel the same way.

    I even said in my post I realize the app catalog and phone are young and are hopefully to get better with time, but I'm not in denial as to the current state of the Pre or the app catalog.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Yes, I know. But my point is that the hardware is not there primarily for games so concluding from the hardware that Palm planned but failed to deliver games is not true.
    No one's arguing that point, AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK. $Palm$ $is$ $failing$ $to$ $deliver$ $in$ $plenty$ $of$ $other$ $software$ $areas$ $besides$ $games$.

    If you're barely using your iPod doesn't it mean that all the glitz Apple is providing is unimportant? Will the knowledge of useless apps and games existing in the app catalog make you sleep better at night?

    I know exactly what I'm looking forward to, robust PIM apps and bugs fixed. I'd be very happy just to have that, even if not a single game ever ran on my Pre. Nothing is stopping Palm from achieving this with the current SDK. What do you need that the current SDK can't deliver?
    Uh...Shazam? Augmented Reality with Yelp integration? Speech Translation? ShopSaavy?

    I look at my G1 and there is nothing on it that can't be done in webOS.
    I just named four that can't be done in the current SDK, and one that can't be done with the Pre hardware no matter how robust the SDK gets.

    And the apps I'd want to use on the iPhone are also ones that could easily be done on webOS. The real problem is with Palm being forced to play on Apple's terms, sinking huge resources into an app store and supporting developers writing JavaScript games.
    How is offering a real SDK in a timely fashion "Apple's terms"? How is lagging behind Android's pace - when they too only had one device on one carrier and had several times the number of apps WebOS does BEFORE they even had paid apps - having anything to do with Apple?

    Not only is Palm starting after those efforts so they have the chance to learn from their mistakes, but they're starting with WAY more robust hardware than iPhone version 1 or the G1. Yet, the apps are more crippled and the pace of app release is way more glacial.

    That's not a good thing.
  18.    #18  
    Hey guys thanks for all the good posts I stand by my statement that Palm better release all the sdks especially the mic api soon!!!
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    No one's arguing that point, AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK. $Palm$ $is$ $failing$ $to$ $deliver$ $in$ $plenty$ $of$ $other$ $software$ $areas$ $besides$ $games$.
    Maybe we can agree that the problem is execution. But I'd add to this the major distraction of an app store and making the SDK available. They can't, in my opinion, do all of this at once. And current users are suffering shoddy quality as a result.

    Uh...Shazam? Augmented Reality with Yelp integration? Speech Translation? ShopSaavy?
    Have you ever used ShopSavvy? In reality it didn't find what I was looking for. It either gave me irrelevant results, listed stores that did not stock the item or simply didn't recognize the barcode or name of item. In the real world, sadly, this app is useless. Someone who's trying to find bargains will rarely just browse stores without knowing what they're looking for having researched beforehand. And the kind of items I find at the store and might buy on impulse are not something I'm willing to walk 10 blocks over to save a buck. There is no use case for this app.

    And the same goes for AR. Worthless gimmick. Show me one instance in which it would be needed. Would you stand in Time Square and browse your environment instead of just reading the freaking signs? Are you really going to tour a city preferring to stare into your device or point it at the ground to "see" the subway tunnels...are you going to dig into the ground to reach them? Useless demoware.

    I just named four that can't be done in the current SDK, and one that can't be done with the Pre hardware no matter how robust the SDK gets.
    I haven't used Shazzam. I actually never downloaded it so I can't tell, but people say it works. Good. I, however, find most of my new music on Pandora, HypeM and the likes. Very rarely has music playing in some public venue piqued my interest. So is this an essential app? Gimmick. If it was useful they'd charge for it.

    How is offering a real SDK in a timely fashion "Apple's terms"? How is lagging behind Android's pace - when they too only had one device on one carrier and had several times the number of apps WebOS does BEFORE they even had paid apps - having anything to do with Apple?

    Not only is Palm starting after those efforts so they have the chance to learn from their mistakes, but they're starting with WAY more robust hardware than iPhone version 1 or the G1. Yet, the apps are more crippled and the pace of app release is way more glacial.

    That's not a good thing.
    I think that, for some time, it will not be possible to do the geewiz stuff you see on the iPhone and Android, and it's not worth pursuing. I feel bad for the game developers but they should understand what they're getting into.

    One has to look at a platform and consider its strengths and weaknesses before diving in. To look at webOS and want to write games for it is going against the grain.

    So what is the Pre good for? I'm just going with what I've always thought of Palm products. It could be a great tool for organizing your schedule, contacts, pull info from the web and connect it all together. And I believe Palm is saying the same, but people don't want to listen. And Palm itself isn't sure.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  20. #20  
    I think Jon Rubinstein should publicly denounce any augmented reality apps, ShopSaavy, and Shazam as pointless and not the type of apps Palm is interested in.

    Should go over REAL well.
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