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  1. #21  
    keeps your mind off the app store delay thought right? very smart palm!

    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    actually apple ups palm!!!! itunes sync appears to have cost us pre users lots of functionality for another week
  2. #22  
    There is no way for Palm to win this fight. iTunes sync is great, but it won't last. Apple is not going to give up on this, and those of us who sync with iTunes will go through an endless cycle of breaks and fixes until we get frustrated enough to seek out third-party solutions. Palm isn't doing anybody any favors by prolonging the inevitable.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by idletype View Post
    There is no way for Palm to win this fight. iTunes sync is great, but it won't last. Apple is not going to give up on this, and those of us who sync with iTunes will go through an endless cycle of breaks and fixes until we get frustrated enough to seek out third-party solutions. Palm isn't doing anybody any favors by prolonging the inevitable.
    palm has already won
    free media big apple picking on little ole palm (David vs. Goliath)
    palm sticking it to the man aka USB fourms
    that's a win in my book
  4. #24  
    Oh, please. People's outrage is ridiculous. If Microsoft was the leading music provider and this was Apple hacking in support for downloading, people would be applauding it wholeheartedly. Since it's the other way around, people are bothered by it.

    If Best Buy sold CDs that only worked in CD players sold at their store, there would be outrage. I don't see why it should be any different for digital files rather than physical media. And I also don't see why Apple is so bothered by it anyway. I'm sure they make more money off of iTunes than the physical hardware anyway, so why do they even try and stop this?
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by wickcity View Post
    Palm is fighting a losing battle when it comes to this Itunes matter. They have wasted a lot of time and energy on this. The final result and thats what matters, it not going to end pretty for Palm.
    According to Palm, like 40 hours of effort so far. NOTHING, compared to the positive PRPRPR $they$ $have$ $received$.

    I don't understand how people always believe Apple is the best thing for users interests. THey are HYPER controlling and only care to make money off the brain washes masses. But that is just my opinion, backed up by Jobs' ego.
    Your Pre wants Word Whirl from the App Catalog.

    It told me.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by bipoler View Post
    This is so Elementary School, I feel embarrassed holding Palm Now quit this nit picking battle
    Ok since your embarrassed, I'll gladly take that Palm out of your hands then! I need 2 more to make it a family of 5!


    I dont use Itunes, but my son does. Sell me your phone bipoler, or trade me for a Rant? How about it?

    Just PM me for the info and I gladly give you 150$ for the phone (since you are that embarassed to hold one).
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by sacherjj View Post
    According to Palm, like 40 hours of effort so far. NOTHING, compared to the positive PRPRPR $they$ $have$ $received$.

    I don't understand how people always believe Apple is the best thing for users interests. THey are HYPER controlling and only care to make money off the brain washes masses. But that is just my opinion, backed up by Jobs' ego.
    Positive PRPRPR $from$ $who$, $Palm$ *******, $don$'$t$ $make$ $me$ $laugh$. $Show$ $me$ $all$ $the$ $positive$ $PR$ $Palm$ $is$ $getting$ $from$ $this$ $debacle$.
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Warblad13 View Post
    palm has already won
    free media big apple picking on little ole palm (David vs. Goliath)
    palm sticking it to the man aka USB fourms
    that's a win in my book

    Well, with satisfied customers like this, Palm can't lose.
  9. s219's Avatar
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Oh, please. People's outrage is ridiculous. If Microsoft was the leading music provider and this was Apple hacking in support for downloading, people would be applauding it wholeheartedly. Since it's the other way around, people are bothered by it.

    If Best Buy sold CDs that only worked in CD players sold at their store, there would be outrage. I don't see why it should be any different for digital files rather than physical media. And I also don't see why Apple is so bothered by it anyway. I'm sure they make more money off of iTunes than the physical hardware anyway, so why do they even try and stop this?
    1. Fact: Apple makes orders of magnitude more money off hardware sales. They make about ten cents on each song download, which is peanuts overall. To think they care about music sales on a platform that is less than 1/400th of their iPod customer base is delusional.

    2. Fact: Apple is not blocking Palm or the customer from the media -- it's completely open, and in fact they have a published API that companies (like RIM for Blackberry) can use to access the iTunes media library. Blame Palm for the inability to develop their own sync software.

    Care to spew any more false rubbish? I'll be glad to dispel any garbage you want to use in your defense.

    Seriously people, if you want to make a case "for" Palm, you need to get your facts straight.
  10. Duo
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    If Best Buy sold CDs that only worked in CD players sold at their store, there would be outrage. I don't see why it should be any different for digital files rather than physical media. And I also don't see why Apple is so bothered by it anyway. I'm sure they make more money off of iTunes than the physical hardware anyway, so why do they even try and stop this?
    What is this rubbish?

    1) Apple in NO WAY blocks anyone from accessing or copying non-DRM protected files that are purchased through their store.

    2) Apple have provided a open method for other programs including other Apple programs to sync with iTunes. This is the XML Library file. This is how other applications sync with iTunes with no grief from Apple.
  11. fid
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    Care to spew any more false rubbish? I'll be glad to dispel any garbage you want to use in your defense.

    Seriously people, if you want to make a case "for" Palm, you need to get your facts straight.
    Of course spewing rubbish is what it's all about. That keeps the eye off the ball and makes it easier to swallow delays in real support/updates to the Palm platform.
  12. #32  
    I don't understand why people keep updating itunes. It's not like the updates are in any way important, interesting, or adding new functionality I in any way need or want. Ever since I got my pre it syncs fine with itunes and it will continue to do so!
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    1. Fact: Apple makes orders of magnitude more money off hardware sales. They make about ten cents on each song download, which is peanuts overall. To think they care about music sales on a platform that is less than 1/400th of their iPod customer base is delusional.

    2. Fact: Apple is not blocking Palm or the customer from the media -- it's completely open, and in fact they have a published API that companies (like RIM for Blackberry) can use to access the iTunes media library. Blame Palm for the inability to develop their own sync software.

    Care to spew any more false rubbish? I'll be glad to dispel any garbage you want to use in your defense.

    Seriously people, if you want to make a case "for" Palm, you need to get your facts straight.
    1. I might be mistaken on that. I'm not just talking about song downloads, but videos as well, but I was under the impression that they've been following the video game model - aka, sell the hardware at very near cost, and then all of the money comes in from the software / songs.

    2 is the more important one though. First of all, as you say, they allow it through an API, so what's the difference? This is all about the average customer. OF COURSE most of us here can install a third-party connector type software to sync with iTunes. The issue is, that the mass market doesn't want to be bothered to figure stuff like that out. By having native sync support, it provides a better customer experience, and makes no difference with regards to the end-results to Apple. Either way, they're not using Apple hardware.

    The fake Best Buy example was (pretty clearly, I thought) an exaggerated example to prove a point.

    A better example is how Microsoft gets crap from the EU constantly for bundling software with hardware. This is the same thing and everyone ignores it - except Apple is bundling their hardware to their software for the easiest user experience.
  14. #34  
    I don't know if the webOS Internals team is looking into it already, but Palm should make changing the vendor ID accessible to anyone and wash their hand off of it.
  15. Duo
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Warblad13 View Post
    palm has already won
    free media big apple picking on little ole palm (David vs. Goliath)
    palm sticking it to the man aka USB fourms
    that's a win in my book
    So now the USB-IF are the bad guys even though Palm dragged them into this? Oh, wait anyone who doesn't automatically support Palm is the bad guy. Got it.

    Quote Originally Posted by sacherjj View Post
    According to Palm, like 40 hours of effort so far. NOTHING, compared to the positive PRPRPR $they$ $have$ $received$.
    Actually Palm aren't receiving any positive PRPRPR $from$ $this$. $They$ $did$ $when$ $they$ $first$ $announced$ $iTunes$ $sync$ $but$ $that$ $has$ $long$ $since$ $dried$ $up$.

    Now they just look like a bunch of petulant children who are sore at Daddy, want to take what they haven't earned, can't focus on the things they should be focussing on and won't follow the rules.

    E.g. Palm went whining to the USB-IF standards forum hoping that they would tell Apple that they should allow Palm to sync with iTunes. Apple were found to be operating correctly but Palm were found to be breaking the USB standard and were told to explain themselves within a set time period and comply with the standard.

    What did Palm do? They didn't explain themselves and they didn't comply with the standard.

    Quote Originally Posted by sacherjj View Post
    I don't understand how people always believe Apple is the best thing for users interests. THey are HYPER controlling and only care to make money off the brain washes masses. But that is just my opinion, backed up by Jobs' ego.
    You don't have to believe Apple is the best thing for users, a good thing or even like Apple. I certainly don't like them and I get tired of seeing Jobs smarmy face while he touts his latest mediocre device backed up by fantastic marketing.

    However I believe that Palm are wrong about this. I believe that they should not be trying to hack iTunes but that they should innovate and produce their own software to their own specifications. They can sync with iTunes via the XML Library like everyone else. Eventually maybe Palm will decide to produce their own WebOS based music player. What will they do then sync using iTunes (when it works).

    I also very strongly believe that Palm should comply with the USB standards. All of this technology we use works together by complying with standards. For example it's why the Internet works.

    These things have nothing to do with whether I like Apple or not. It is interesting to note though that in this case it is Palm who are not operating in the best interests of their users.
  16. #36  
    I don't really care about the iTunes sync back-and-forth. I don't use iTunes so it's no big deal to me. And, personally, I don't believe for a second that Palm re-enabling syncing with iTunes is drastically delaying more useful improvements for the Pre.

    And someone explain this to me, what does Apple gain by attempting to keep other brands from syncing to their incredible iTunes software? From a marketing standpoint, Apple could tell people that Palm is recognizing Apple's dominance.
  17. Duo
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by semprini View Post

    And someone explain this to me, what does Apple gain by attempting to keep other brands from syncing to their incredible iTunes software? From a marketing standpoint, Apple could tell people that Palm is recognizing Apple's dominance.
    I asked myself the same thing at first. Why wouldn't Apple create a complete API that would allow ALL their party vendors including independent application makers to integrate with iTunes. That way they would end up owning even more of the market and would probably be able to kill some independent music initiatives like the Nokia Music Store. Also it would mean that the Palm devices were not "special" in that regard.

    However people on this forum that appear to have done a little research into Apple's finances seem to believe that Apple make relatively little money from music and video sales (and they apparently may have made a loss in some years) and that Apple make most of their money (where digital downloads are concerned) from selling the hardware.

    Still, opening up iTunes may be a possibility especially if Apple can find a way to increase the revenue they earn per sale.
  18. #38  
    It's funny how people are worried about Apple's finances.

    Apple is now a very powerful company and it exercises too much control over digital music. As consumers, this is not in our best interest.

    I don't know what to think of Palm's business conduct, it's certainly novel in this case. But it doesn't bother me.

    Remember that it is the user who is connecting their Pre to their iTunes. Palm only provides a compatible device. This is about how Apple treats its users.
  19. Duo
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Apple is now a very powerful company and it exercises too much control over digital music. As consumers, this is not in our best interest.
    I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you want to reduce Apple's influence over digital music using their application to sync to the Pre is not the way to do it. You only cement their dominance in people's minds and offer people a convenient way to keep buying through iTunes.

    You need to break the cycle and to me that means offering a different syncing system which would also include one or more different methods for people to purchase music and other digital media.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    1. I might be mistaken on that. I'm not just talking about song downloads, but videos as well, but I was under the impression that they've been following the video game model - aka, sell the hardware at very near cost, and then all of the money comes in from the software / songs.
    Apple never takes a loss on anything it sells However, for someone to say iTunes music sales are insignificant is misleading -- even if Apple makes 10 cents a song, they sell 2 billion or more songs a year. Pres would not help or hurt that sales figure, and Apple is fighting a losing battle here -- Palm is just the first to stubbornly insist on iTunes integration. More will follow. For the record, I own a Macbook Pro and an iPod, and have been a loyal Apple supporter since I bought a shiny new Power Mac 5200 in 95. I like seeing Apple succeed. I just think they need to open up iTunes and charge a licensing fee to do so.
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