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  1. jke
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    #2  
    Plam infocenter has got a pretty good article on this, plus xerox version of graffiti. Not to plug anther site (visorcenterals great) but you should head over there and read it.
    www.palminfocenter.com
  2. #3  
    When maybe if Palm would have gotten their act together and figured out handwriting recognition a year or two ago, this would be a non-issue.

    That said, I find this a frivilous lawsuit. This is one of those common-sense inventions, IMHO...not too proprietary.

    But I'm not a lawyer.
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  3.    #4  
    I understand Xerox's position though because they were screwed over by Microsoft and Apple way back when...so I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to protect thier patents.
  4. #5  
    This could be very serious. If Xerox decides to go after lost royalties, Palm's very survival could be in jeopardy. There are somewhere around 15 million PalmOS PDAs sold to date. Collecting "lost revenues" on that scale is unimaginable, and would put Palm out of business.

    I hope Xerox has the class to seek a sensible solution to this case instead of a quick money grab.
  5.    #6  
    Originally posted by foo fighter
    This could be very serious. If Xerox decides to go after lost royalties, Palm's very survival could be in jeopardy. There are somewhere around 15 million PalmOS PDAs sold to date. Collecting "lost revenues" on that scale is unimaginable, and would put Palm out of business.

    I hope Xerox has the class to seek a sensible solution to this case instead of a quick money grab.
    True but think of it this way:
    < DREAM MODE>
    1. We can now all convert to the Sharp Zaurus and maybe the price will drop

    2. The Zaurus will have better apps
    < /DREAM MODE>

    Actually you should think of Xerox's position this way:

    Say you are low or out of money, now someone stole something of yours and you can sue them and be okay again, would you sue the person? Or would you spend a longer time trying to make-up the money other ways?

    Xerox needs the money and they can easily drain Palm out of the market. However this would cause an initial disturbance in the force until Linux PDAs take Palm's place when the force goes back in balance again. However we might be forced to buy PPCs until the force rebalances .
  6. #7  
    They could also appeal and otherwise stall for a long time. I also read that Microsoft may be looked at too, which would bode well for Palm, because they have more money to tie this whole thing up in court, dragging the case out until Xerox goes broke...or not.
  7. #8  
    Originally posted by dampeoples
    They could also appeal and otherwise stall for a long time.
    That's not exactly a solution. The cost involved from litigation will mount quickly, and it will put a dark cloud over the company's future. Not to mention the beating Palm's stock could take.

    I also read that Microsoft may be looked at too, which would bode well for Palm, because they have more money to tie this whole thing up in court, dragging the case out until Xerox goes broke...or not.
    Microsoft doesn't actually use Graffiti. It's more of a mutation that simply recognizes familiar Graffiti strokes. And I don't think Xerox really wants to go up against Microsoft, especially given Xerox's current financial situation.
  8. #9  
    Originally posted by Techie2000
    True but think of it this way:
    < DREAM MODE>
    1. We can now all convert to the Sharp Zaurus and maybe the price will drop

    2. The Zaurus will have better apps
    < /DREAM MODE>
    Bah! The Zaurus will be a stinker. I could care less how much the price drops, I still won't buy it.

    Say you are low or out of money, now someone stole something of yours and you can sue them and be okay again, would you sue the person? Or would you spend a longer time trying to make-up the money other ways?....[snip] Xerox needs the money and they can easily drain Palm out of the market.
    I completely sympathize with Xerox's plight. But you can only get so much milk from a Cow, especially one with dry shriveled utters like Palm's.

    Besides, this is all Jeff Hawkins fault. Xerox should go after him as well.

    However this would cause an initial disturbance in the force until Linux PDAs take Palm's place when the force goes back in balance again.
    Keep dreaming. Linux won't take off on PDAs anymore than it has on the desktop. The best solution, in this case, would be for PalmOS to go open-source. Then Microsoft could get the sh*t kicked out of it by a much larger development community!

    However we might be forced to buy PPCs until the force rebalances .
    Why would we be "forced" to buy a PPC? Just use what works for your needs. Stay with a Palm/Visor/Clie if that's what you prefer. Your Palm won't become any less useful if Palm goes under.
  9. #10  
    The stock will take a beating if they stall or if they just pay, either way it's a negative effect. Xerox is probably scared of Microsoft, but Palm graffiti isn't Xerox's graffiti either, it's a mutation, just like Microsoft's, but still very similar. It has to be similar (at least to actual handwriting, just not mine), that's what makes it easy to use. I just hope this blows over, at least until OS5 comes out.
  10. #11  
    Originally posted by foo fighter


    Why would we be "forced" to buy a PPC? Just use what works for your needs. Stay with a Palm/Visor/Clie if that's what you prefer. Your Palm won't become any less useful if Palm goes under.
    I was thinking the same thing - regardless of the outcome, I don't see a need to change unless my piece breaks and a replacement isn't available. There are enough Palms out there that the developers still have a market as well. Worst thing is someone else gets the OS and they put little keyboards on everything anyway, like my little pager or the TREO.
  11. #12  
    Originally posted by dampeoples
    I just hope this blows over, at least until OS5 comes out.
    Not likely. You won't be seeing a PDA running OS 5 until this time next year, or early 2003. It won't be out in beta until late May.
  12. #13  
    Wishful thinking on the OS5. Who got the 50mil? Was it Palm or Handspring? If it was Palm - maybe someone saw this coming? If it was Handspring - hopefully they will keep the springboard alive with it. Kinda like a return on my springboard investment.
  13. #14  
    Originally posted by dampeoples
    Wishful thinking on the OS5. Who got the 50mil? Was it Palm or Handspring? If it was Palm
    David Nagel stated, in an interview, that PalmOS 5 will be in beta by late May. BETA! It's safe to assume the final release will be a few months beyond that, and then it takes another 3-4 months for licensees to take the OS and implement it into their product line. You do the math. There is no way we will see PalmOS 5 based handhelds before Q4 2002...and even that may be wishful thinking.
  14. #15  
    Originally posted by Techie2000
    I understand Xerox's position though because they were screwed over by Microsoft and Apple way back when...so I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to protect thier patents.
    They were noit really screwed by Apple and Billy. The senior leadership at the time made a conscious decision to focus on their core business of xerographic technology and cobweb the work of the lab.

    Also, Xerox is in dire financial straits right now. I bet they go for first and last blood with this.
    That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you.
  15. #16  
    Bah! The Zaurus will be a stinker. I could care less how much the price drops, I still won't buy it.

    You must be out of your mind? Have you had a chance to use the Zaurus?
    The only way it would be a flop is if nobody jumps on the linux bandwagon, and develop good apps.
    I actually was privileged to play, I mean use it for about an hour.
    Mp3 playback was of concert hall quality. Oh my god the colors. I thought I had an acid-flashback. The speed and simplicity was mindblowing(given palm OS is easier).
    The Zaurus is on my wish list **** I will wait like I always do, instead of getting right out the gate.
    Hey baby before we start do you mind if we use my M505?
    No not for that!!!!!!!!!!
    Use it to reffer to PalmaSutra, silly???????
  16. #17  


    Here's a wild idea. What if Xerox demands retroactive royalties, and SONY comes in as a "White Knight"; offering to pay Palm Inc's liability in exchange for all rights to Palm OS?

    Sony has enough cash, and it would be just the vehicle they need to buy Palm out!!



    Or maybe I listen to Art Bell too much....
    That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you.
  17. #18  
    I have to disagree with Foo on one issue - the likelihood and cost of an appeal. Palm will appeal, so this will drag on a bit yet.

    Appeals aren't cheap, but they typically cost a fraction of getting a judgment at the trial court level. Fact issues - depositions, document requests and production, expert witnesses etc. are what really drives up the costs of litigation. The legal research and writing part, while not cheap, typically isn't the really expensive part of a case.

    Once the trial is over (I actually don't know if they had a full trial, or if this was disposed of on summary judgment), the factual record is set. The appeal consists of just organizing that record and fleshing out the legal arguments in the appeal briefs. It doesn't cost that much more in the usual case.

    And I can tell you one thing - appeals can take another year or two, so nothing is going to happen immediately.

    Now, all that said this isn't good news - it's certainly a hassle that Palm (and its licensees) didn't need in this market.
  18. #19  
    Well, gee, after having a WinCE machine for 5 years, and finding that the hand writing sucked, AND even the touch screen sucked most of the time (I have a mobility disability), Graffiti is a godsend, as I can write and it understands my scribbles 90% of the time! If Xerox is successful in this, and the Palm OS gets rid of Graffiti, ugh! There goes my use of a handheld that I bought 2 weeks ago, although, knowing lawsuits, well, gee, it may be 5 years before anything is done... so...

    Dana
  19. #20  
    Originally posted by DanaWheels
    Well, gee, after having a WinCE machine for 5 years, and finding that the hand writing sucked, AND even the touch screen sucked most of the time (I have a mobility disability), Graffiti is a godsend, as I can write and it understands my scribbles 90% of the time! If Xerox is successful in this, and the Palm OS gets rid of Graffiti, ugh! There goes my use of a handheld that I bought 2 weeks ago, although, knowing lawsuits, well, gee, it may be 5 years before anything is done... so...

    Dana
    I don't think this is completely apocalyptic as everyone is worried it will be. Worst case scenario and Palm loses all appeals, I think Xerox will likely ask for a licence on all future Palm OS rather than have it be retroactive. Why would it not be retoractive? If Xerox is doing to this to help their bottom line, it would be idiotic to kill Palm. They could force Palm to pay a licencing fee for every handheld that has Graffiti. Palm would then pass that along to Palm OS licencees like Sony and Handspring. The Palm OS continues to grow and more and more people buy one. Xerox in the long would make more money going that route than by killing Palm. It would not be in their best interests. Make Palm a pseudo-subsidiery and then you can make more money off of them. Thats IF Palm loses all appeals which I don't think they will because this is a frivilous lawsuit anyway. If they were really out to protect their copyright, they would go after handspring and Handera but they didn't. I know this lawsuit started way back in 1997 but they could have added other Palm OS licencees.

    Jason
    Did you just go near a burning hot river of lava or are you just happy to see me?
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