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  1. #21  
    Originally posted by volcanopele
    I don't think this is completely apocalyptic as everyone is worried it will be.
    I agree, but I'm not worried about Palm losing control of Graffiti. I'm more worried that Palm will be slapped with an overwhelming fine than pushes them into bankruptcy. It's a no win situation. Even if Xerox forgoes that course of action, and decides to invoke licensing fees instead, that could have a damaging effect on the newly incepted OS division. It could even drive up the price on the PalmOS license.
  2. #22  
    Has anyone looked at this character map of "Unistrokes"? It is nothing like Graffiti; more like shorthand. Did they win on the grounds of the concept of a one-stroke alphabet? If so, I think it is too broad a judgement to survive on appeal.
    That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you.
  3. #23  
    It has to be similar (at least to actual handwriting, just not mine), that's what makes it easy to use.
    Exactly. That's why this seems like a frivilous lawsuit. Grafitti is a natural solution for the input of text with a pen-based device. Xerox stole the idea from the pen.
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  4. #24  
    www.forbes.com/2001/12/21/1221palm.html?partner=yahoo&referrer=

    Sorry--the above link comes with a Popup ad.

    HandSpring is currently trading at $6.57, up $.02 for the day on average volume.

    Palm is down $.04 to $3.42 with very high volumes -- about twice the average daily volume.
  5. #25  
    I imagine that if Xerox's lawsuit is successful that they would then pursue Microsoft - with a very nice precedent. I doubt they'll kill the OS or the graffiti style of entry - but they would certainly look for some royalties.
  6. #26  
    Originally posted by slotmachine
    Has anyone looked at this character map of "Unistrokes"? It is nothing like Graffiti; more like shorthand. Did they win on the grounds of the concept of a one-stroke alphabet? If so, I think it is too broad a judgement to survive on appeal.
    And only FOUR letters are used in Unistrokes that are the same as in Graffiti... I think you guys are right, Xerox will lose the lawsuit.

    Dana
  7. #27  
    This could be interesting with Xerox. You just gotta feel bad for them, they come up with everything, but just don't know how to use it to make money. Someone comes along and uses it and makes the big money. I would be mad if I were them...

    We'll see what happens, but whatever does, the PalmOS and graffiti will still be around for quite some time until a couple reasons. PalmOS devices can support real handwriting recognition with faster processors. And the biggest of all, at least for me, is that when you write on one of these things, it feels like paper and not a computer. When I write on paper, I never think graffiti. When I touch a touch screen, I always think graffiti. If you could take that mentality away, then I would just scribble away on that palm, and it would be great.

    Whatever happens, no worries, Sony will be still alive and will do something to save the PalmOS. Probably take it over,
    nelson.hsieh
    good artists copy, great artists steal. . .
  8. #28  
    What would Sony possibly benefit from taking over the Palm OS? It would be way easier to just transfer all their efforts to PPC machines.
  9. #29  
    Originally posted by dampeoples
    What would Sony possibly benefit from taking over the Palm OS? It would be way easier to just transfer all their efforts to PPC machines.
    Well, for starters, Microsoft and Sony are bitter rivals. The game console market is going to be a blood bath, and Sony is sweating joysticks over the Xbox. Microsoft isn't an ally of Sony any more than Sony is an ally of Microsoft.

    Second, don't underestimate Sony. They are the worlds largest consumer electronics company, and they know much more about consumer devices than even Microsoft. A PalmOS development team, with Sony at the helm, could just be the kinetic charge that pushes back the PocketPC platform.

    One thing is certain. Things can't continue on as they have.
  10. #30  
    Originally posted by foo fighter


    Well, for starters, Microsoft and Sony are bitter rivals. The game console market is going to be a blood bath, and Sony is sweating joysticks over the Xbox. Microsoft isn't an ally of Sony any more than Sony is an ally of Microsoft.

    Second, don't underestimate Sony. They are the worlds largest consumer electronics company, and they know much more about consumer devices than even Microsoft. A PalmOS development team, with Sony at the helm, could just be the kinetic charge that pushes back the PocketPC platform.

    One thing is certain. Things can't continue on as they have.
    They make puters that run windows.
  11. #31  
    Originally posted by foo fighter
    Well, for starters, Microsoft and Sony are bitter rivals. The game console market is going to be a blood bath, and Sony is sweating joysticks over the Xbox. Microsoft isn't an ally of Sony any more than Sony is an ally of Microsoft.

    Second, don't underestimate Sony. They are the worlds largest consumer electronics company, and they know much more about consumer devices than even Microsoft. A PalmOS development team, with Sony at the helm, could just be the kinetic charge that pushes back the PocketPC platform.

    One thing is certain. Things can't continue on as they have.
    If Microsoft and Sony were to battle it out, I think Sony would win, for reasons you stated. They are experts at consumer electronics, Microsoft still can't design an operating that the average Joe Smoe can use. As for PS2 vs. XBox, I dunno, haha. I think GameCube looks better, but only PS2 and XBox have my favorite game, Max Payne. Sony with the PalmOS would kick ****. PalmOS would not be where it is today without Sony coming in with all their new models.
    nelson.hsieh
    good artists copy, great artists steal. . .
  12. #32  
    Originally posted by dampeoples
    They make puters that run windows.
    They don't have a choice. Either they ship PCs with Windows, or they get out of the PC business altogether.
  13. #33  
    LOL. you know what? I think Sony is HELPING Microsoft with their kick **** laptops. They design and make these awesome little machines, very thin and light that lots of people buy. Improve Microsoft's sales of OS and put out a good competitor to Apple's iBooks and PowerBooks. Microsoft should thank Sony and not compete against them.
    nelson.hsieh
    good artists copy, great artists steal. . .
  14. #34  
    Originally posted by AzNCoMpUtAnErD

    If Microsoft and Sony were to battle it out, I think Sony would win, for reasons you stated. They are experts at consumer electronics, Microsoft still can't design an operating that the average Joe Smoe can use. As for PS2 vs. XBox, I dunno, haha. I think GameCube looks better, but only PS2 and XBox have my favorite game, Max Payne. Sony with the PalmOS would kick ****. PalmOS would not be where it is today without Sony coming in with all their new models.
    I still have a PSOne! I think Palm would be in the exact same place - Sony builds HARDWARE, Palm follows the leaders with it's hardware and makes an OS.
  15. #35  
    Originally posted by foo fighter


    They don't have a choice. Either they ship PCs with Windows, or they get out of the PC business altogether.
    Doesn't sound much like bitter rivals - more like working hand in hand.
  16. #36  
    Originally posted by dampeoples

    Doesn't sound much like bitter rivals - more like working hand in hand.
    In the PC market, Microsoft and Sony are partners..only to the extent that they need each others products. But in the game console market, they are engaged in a fight for the pie chart. Xbox is shaping up to be the winner, but PS2 is the incumbent player in this space. And then of course there is Nintendo who is more interested in being the a solid third.

    Trust me, Sony sees M$ as more of a threat than a partner. There is no excess of love between these two companies.
  17. #37  
    Originally posted by foo fighter


    In the PC market, Microsoft and Sony are partners..only to the extent that they need each others products. But in the game console market, they are engaged in a fight for the pie chart. Xbox is shaping up to be the winner, but PS2 is the incumbent player in this space. And then of course there is Nintendo who is more interested in being the a solid third.

    Trust me, Sony sees M$ as more of a threat than a partner. There is no excess of love between these two companies.
    Not to beat a dead horse, but it doesn't exclude them from making a PPC, but who knows what they'll do.
  18. #38  
    Originally posted by dampeoples

    Not to beat a dead horse, but it doesn't exclude them from making a PPC, but who knows what they'll do.
    Well, it's true that there is nothing to stop Sony from making a PocketPC, but I find that highly unlikely. For starters, PPC is a corporate tool, not a consumer device. Sony has shown little interest in the enterprise space, so I don't see them making a big push in that direction. They have historically been a consumer company. This is one reason why PocketPC has such a small marketshare in the consumer space. There just isn't enough demand for these types of devices. It comes down to the often used BWM vs. Chevy argument.

    Second, judging from the development efforts Sony has put into the PalmOS...high resolution displays, improved font rendering, digital media support, I would say they have more than a passing interest in this platform. The irony is that Sony appears to be putting much more development effort into the PalmOS than even Palm or Handspring, who have simply stagnated.

    But you're right, there is nothing that says Sony can't or won't market a PPC. We'll see.
  19. #39  
    Originally posted by foo fighter


    Well, it's true that there is nothing to stop Sony from making a PocketPC, but I find that highly unlikely. For starters, PPC is a corporate tool, not a consumer device. Sony has shown little interest in the enterprise space, so I don't see them making a big push in that direction. They have historically been a consumer company. This is one reason why PocketPC has such a small marketshare in the consumer space. There just isn't enough demand for these types of devices. It comes down to the often used BWM vs. Chevy argument.

    Second, judging from the development efforts Sony has put into the PalmOS...high resolution displays, improved font rendering, digital media support, I would say they have more than a passing interest in this platform. The irony is that Sony appears to be putting much more development effort into the PalmOS than even Palm or Handspring, who have simply stagnated.

    But you're right, there is nothing that says Sony can't or won't market a PPC. We'll see.
    Palm devices, as well, are corporate tools. I see PPC as a Multimedia device, trying to incorporate a laptop (and badly, in my opinion), into a handheld. I had one of these things and didn't like the interface, so I traded it for a Visor. I think their small marketshare is derived from their higher price/larger size, but I think the prices are falling, havn't checked into it lately. Handera, as well, has a hi-res display, don't know who came first. Don't know what you mean by digital media support - Tealmovie, Gmovie and others, perhaps? Although the integrated MP3 is nice, but in reality fits a niche market.
    I don't think Palm or Handspring have stagnated, Palm is working on a new OS, seemingly having maxed out the capabilities of the current one, saving their limited funding for the new ARM devices. Handspring, a third party hardware developer, seems to have the same plan, waiting for the new OS, and releasing a chubby little PDA/Phone in the meanwhile. But this is all speculation, I'd love to see them ALL hang in there and squash PPC.
  20. #40  
    Originally posted by dampeoples
    Palm devices, as well, are corporate tools.
    Not quite yet they aren't . But Palm and HS are buying corporate software and services to better support enterprise clients. Someday.

    I think their small marketshare is derived from their higher price/larger size, but I think the prices are falling, havn't checked into it lately.
    PocketPCs are WAY too expensive to ever succeed in the consumer market. I don't even understand why retailers stock them. And prices are only coming down on last years models that are obsolete. The new models all sell in the $600+ range. Insane!

    Don't know what you mean by digital media support - Tealmovie, Gmovie and others, perhaps? Although the integrated MP3 is nice, but in reality fits a niche market.
    I'm talking about digital video and audio (MP3) functionality.

    I don't think Palm or Handspring have stagnated, Palm is working on a new OS, seemingly having maxed out the capabilities of the current one, saving their limited funding for the new ARM devices.
    I mean until now they have stagnated. You will see some innovative technology from the PalmOS camp next year though, but later in the year.

    I'd love to see them ALL hang in there and squash PPC.
    Actually, I hope PocketPC and Palm succeed. That creates cross platform competition that benefits both types of users.
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