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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    funny, if the iphone 3gs didn't kill the Pre you think the Half-Baked clunky Android will?
    Pretty funny you said that. We will discuss that when it drops. It has been said many times that this is going to be the iPhones closest competitor. Webos is lacking in a lot of ways. This phone will bring them to light. Now I know how rough the pre lovers are with any haters of the pre. Before I get called a troll, I did own the pre, but after the second exchange over build quality I had to let it go. Htc build quality is much better. With the touch pro 2 and the hero coming, palm is going to have to sink or swim. Sprint is not supporting the pre the way it should, and that says a lot.
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    #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Relevant to the fact that the "superior SDK" and all of that didn't just pop out overnight, but that it took a long time to get to where they are today. But I'm done commenting on Android in theory and will only comment about it on the HTC Hero in this thread because I think I brought it way off topic.
    There is no "Android Theory" you have been discussing. You have been present with Android Fact: and in regards to the SDK they were ahead of Palm when the G1 came out both in letting people know what was going on as well as execution. The communicating, btw, was the more imporant of the two -- something both Sprint and Palm have been lacking.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
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    #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    funny, if the iphone 3gs didn't kill the Pre you think the Half-Baked clunky Android will?
    The issue isn't that iPhone is killing the Pre -- the Pre is suppose to "kill" the iPhone.

    And the Pre will not be "killed" by Android, it will just be made less relevant since Android, worldwide, is on 5 carriers with as many phones available.

    Palm just isn't thinking and therefore not acting Globally. The Palm devices have never enjoyed wide spread International support.

    And the folks behind the Pre here continue to forget it is a global, not a North American Market.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    There is no "Android Theory" you have been discussing. You have been present with Android Fact: and in regards to the SDK they were ahead of Palm when the G1 came out both in letting people know what was going on as well as execution. The communicating, btw, was the more imporant of the two -- something both Sprint and Palm have been lacking.
    Android in theory = the basic OS without any modifications. Android in practice on the Hero, the topic of this thread, is entirely different. Aka, it's useless to discuss the theoretical (for the Hero) unmodified Android install. I didn't say there is a "Android Theory," but referred to "Android, in theory". I know words are hard, but come on. (If it didn't come across by the smiley, just clarifying that that is a joke.)
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Android in theory = the basic OS without any modifications. Android in practice on the Hero, the topic of this thread, is entirely different. Aka, it's useless to discuss the theoretical (for the Hero) unmodified Android install.
    Is the Hero build really that different? It can download and run standard Android apps from the app store can it not?
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    Framework: Please read up on what that means. Android is a complete product that already supports a wide variety of hardware. Framework in this context is broad product framework not merely platform.

    OEM have the further option of creating their own interface such as the HTC Hero.

    Palm has boxed themselves into a niche product and one that they are losing market share on and the pre isn't enough to save them.

    Also, the variety of hardware manufactures such as HTC and Samsung that know how to build quality devices cannot be understated.

    Palm really screwed up with the build quality of the Pre.
    But as a prospective smartphone buyer, why should I care about Android's completeness or that it can run on settop boxes or car navs?
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    #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Android in theory = the basic OS without any modifications. Android in practice on the Hero, the topic of this thread, is entirely different. Aka, it's useless to discuss the theoretical (for the Hero) unmodified Android install. I didn't say there is a "Android Theory," but referred to "Android, in theory". I know words are hard, but come on. (If it didn't come across by the smiley, just clarifying that that is a joke.)
    Huh? What exactly are you babbling about?

    Android has a proven track record, the Palm Pre does not. That is not theory but fact.

    The core difference between the Sprint HTC Hero and the European one is the CDMA radio vs. the GSM radio.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
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    #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    But as a prospective smartphone buyer, why should I care about Android's completeness or that it can run on settop boxes or car navs?
    It means if you purchase an App you like, but for whatever reason change carriers, you can get the same app on your new phone.

    Case in Point: Touchdown's Exchange solution is a great little Mail/Calender/Taks/Contacts app for Android that better serves my needs than the default apps.

    I can move it to any android phone on any carrier.

    Should you get an Android netbook in the future, it is more than likely you can use the app on that platform as well.

    Currently, the only other platform than can offer consistency between carriers (that is device manufacturing agnostic) is Windows Mobile.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    Huh? What exactly are you babbling about?

    Android has a proven track record, the Palm Pre does not. That is not theory but fact.

    The core difference between the Sprint HTC Hero and the European one is the CDMA radio vs. the GSM radio.

    You're taking it to mean that I think there's some grand Android Theory or something. I'm just saying that my earlier discussing the theoretical vanilla install of Android (which yes, is present on the G1, but not on the Hero), which is not present on the HTC Hero because of the SenseUI modifications, is entirely irrelevant to the discussion of the Hero. It is this vanilla Android install that is completely unpolished and unfinished in my opinion. SenseUI seems to fix a great deal of that. Still holds no interest to me, but it does seem to be a much more polished and well designed interface (minus the widgets which I still think just make things feel cluttered, but that's just me).

    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant
    Is the Hero build really that different? It can download and run standard Android apps from the app store can it not?
    To the general user of these phones who doesn't spend all day discussing it on a message board like us, I think it makes all the difference. The reason the iPhone was a success (besides the Apple brand name) is that it took all of these things people like us had already been doing and put a flashy GUI on them and made them simple to use. Without SenseUI, Android didn't have this. It was a functional OS, but for mass market success you need more than that these days.
  10. #110  
    I've played with the Hero (two of my friends got GSM models from Europe and have them running here on T-Mobile). It's a nice phone. Very good build quality. However, I still went ahead and got the Pre after playing with both of them. The keyboard was a huge factor for me. The Hero was pretty cluttered and not noticeably faster than the Pre.
  11. #111  
    It's funny how every time something happens in the industry the same couple of people drop everything they're doing and come to the forum proclaiming the end is near. You have to wonder why it is, if they're using what they truly believe is a superior device, they feel the need to come to PreCentral and tell everybody.

    Ok, not really funny; strange.
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    #112  
    If I were to renew my contract today, I'd still go with the Pre. From a personal perspective, HTC's virtual keyboard experience is maddening. I would likely have to claim my Asurion claim within the first few hours because I've thrown the Hero at full force against a wall.

    And for even the most ardent Android fan, I don't see how the Hero be a compelling enough device to incur an EFT for (I mean, its a nice phone, but not that nice), and that brings me to my next point:

    I like Android, and I think it has potential as long as the handset manufacturers step their hardware game up. I'm skeptical that what Samsung and Motorola have to bring to the table will be compelling in the hardware arena. This is an area where I believe Palm to have an advantage, and I have a strong feeling that their product road map is a compelling one.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    It means if you purchase an App you like, but for whatever reason change carriers, you can get the same app on your new phone.

    Case in Point: Touchdown's Exchange solution is a great little Mail/Calender/Taks/Contacts app for Android that better serves my needs than the default apps.

    I can move it to any android phone on any carrier.

    Should you get an Android netbook in the future, it is more than likely you can use the app on that platform as well.

    Currently, the only other platform than can offer consistency between carriers (that is device manufacturing agnostic) is Windows Mobile.
    Pretty weak reasons, IMO. And I'd say that any product so general it can run anywhere is also mediocre at everything.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  14. #114  
    These are just my opinion on reasons to choose the hero over the pre:
    -better build quality
    -extremely better phone dialer experience
    -you can actually change your notification sounds
    -sms/mms forwarding
    -video recorder
    -better battery life
    -better collection of apps
    -HTC's "people" integration is wonderful
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    #115  
    I don't think I will ever use the phone dialer on the Pre, thats what Google Voice is for. Since the Pre supports Google Voice, I am pretty sure that I will be using it exclusively from now on. The Hero has visual voice mail, the Pre has transcribed voice mail. Easy win(or tie, since the Hero supports GV as well).

    The video recorder on the Hero sucks, apparently.

    Battery life is the only one that seems to be really important, but you can get an extended battery for the Pre.

    I have played with the emulators for both android and webos and WebOS just seems to be miles ahead. Granted, the android emulator really doesn't let you do very much, but in general it seems the interface is poorly designed. TouchUI is really nice, but I think having multiple apps open to flip through is more imporant than flipping through widgets.

    Ideally you would have an interface where every app has a corresponding widget, so when you are in card view you see widgetized versions of the apps as opposed to just zoomed out versions.

    I think there will be a lot of changes for the Palm Pre before the end of the year. The expansion to other carriers and the introduction of the Eos should all help to bring in new users and developers.
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    #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Pretty weak reasons, IMO. And I'd say that any product so general it can run anywhere is also mediocre at everything.
    Given that Google and it's primary decision makers have made and are worth more than you and the next 10 generations of your family combined, I suppose I will side with Android over WebOS since the former is a superior platform for making money And the Apps store and availability of quality applications is way head of the Pre and will remain so because the market for android is world wide not just US based.

    As for the hardware, HTC and Samsung both make better hardware that will last the term of the contract where as the Pre hardware will not. But again, I suppose those companies, that are again worth more than you and the next 10 generations of your family combined, know how to make money by selling products that consumers want.
    Last edited by Clack; 09/03/2009 at 11:57 PM.
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
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    #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by drizek View Post
    I don't think I will ever use the phone dialer on the Pre, thats what Google Voice is for. Since the Pre supports Google Voice, I am pretty sure that I will be using it exclusively from now on. The Hero has visual voice mail, the Pre has transcribed voice mail. Easy win(or tie, since the Hero supports GV as well).
    With Google Voice, you have transcribed Email as well... transcribed email is a carrier feature, not a feature of the phone.

    Quote Originally Posted by drizek View Post
    The video recorder on the Hero sucks, apparently.
    It still beats the Pre's video recorder.

    Quote Originally Posted by drizek View Post
    Battery life is the only one that seems to be really important, but you can get an extended battery for the Pre.
    An extended batteries are available from the myTouch that will ergonomically fit the phone. I am not aware of any such thing for the pre and it's USB charging port is not located in a particularly good location for using the phone and charging at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by drizek View Post
    I have played with the emulators for both android and webos and WebOS just seems to be miles ahead. Granted, the android emulator really doesn't let you do very much, but in general it seems the interface is poorly designed. TouchUI is really nice, but I think having multiple apps open to flip through is more imporant than flipping through widgets.
    Can you provide a quantitative / object set of criteria that leads you to this conclusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by drizek View Post
    Ideally you would have an interface where every app has a corresponding widget, so when you are in card view you see widgetized versions of the apps as opposed to just zoomed out versions.

    I think there will be a lot of changes for the Palm Pre before the end of the year. The expansion to other carriers and the introduction of the Eos should all help to bring in new users and developers.
    And this is based on how much industry experience and operating system design and knowledge are you drawing from? What research have you used?
    "We must not contradict, but instruct him that contradicts us; for a madman is not cured by another running mad also." - Dr. An Wang
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    #118  
    lol, I don't get it. What are you trying to prove exactly?

    You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, and you want me to provide a PhD in engineering and a quantitative study because I think the calendar on the Pre looks nice than the one on Android.

    Enjoy reading your transcribed emails.
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clack View Post
    Given that Google and it's primary decision makers have made and are worth more than you and the next 10 generations of your family combined, I suppose I will side with Android over WebOS since the former is a superior platform for making money And the Apps store and availability of quality applications is way head of the Pre and will remain so because the market for android is world wide not just US based.
    Funny stuff! But how is any of this supposed to make me want an Android phone? Because Android makes money (free), or it will run in my car (I'm buying a phone), or its SDK is amazing (don't need a phone to develop and I won't be making money anyway). Who gives a **** about any of this? The UI sucks.

    As for the hardware, HTC and Samsung both make better hardware that will last the term of the contract where as the Pre hardware will not. But again, I suppose those companies, that are again worth more than you and the next 10 generations of your family combined, know how to make money by selling products that consumers want.
    More hilarity. Yes, HTC and Samsung can built great bricks, but they will never come up with something like a gesture area, or slide out portrait keyboard in a compact device, or small keys that are still easy to type on, or the Touchstone. They're just generic hardware manufacturers with no clue in design.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  20. #120  
    No keyboard no dice....

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