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  1. #761  
    Quote Originally Posted by drizek View Post
    By summer of 2011, we will have dual core 1.2ghz ARM 9 processors. I think that Snapdragon is going to be just a minor speed boost over A8, the A9 is waht is really worth waiting for.
    Definitely agree on that one. Not only dual-core, but also an out-of-order architecture. Should be some huge speed improvements by then.

    Though it's just the A9 you mean in that first part, it's still an ARMv7 architecture like the A8 is.
  2. #762  
    Or they'll make it smaller and consume less power. I think the current processors are as fast they need to be.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  3. drizek's Avatar
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    #763  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Definitely agree on that one. Not only dual-core, but also an out-of-order architecture. Should be some huge speed improvements by then.

    Though it's just the A9 you mean in that first part, it's still an ARMv7 architecture like the A8 is.
    But ARM/AMD have actually layed out plans to build the A9 in late 2009 to those specs. It will still be in order, but much faster.

    I doubt that snapdragon will allow for new interfaces, but having two cores might actually usher in another revolution in the way we interact with smartphones,
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    #764  
    i found a guy on CL offering to sell a Hero for $200. he's meeting me at the Sprint store when they open so we can do the transaction. he just got it a few days ago and wants to switch back to his older phone.

    i was pretty cool with my Pre but i can't say no to a $200 Hero. if i don't like it it fetched $400 on eBay and if i like it better than the Pre that phone can get me at least $200 on eBay.
  5. #765  
    Wow... you really have no idea what you are talking about and you don't even realize it. Is everything you know about the phone from reading the inter-web?

    Seriously... I am really trying to give you friendly advice here...

    If I were you I would delete all you wrote about CPU+GPU= "essentially" dual processor... (I had to take a few minutes to stop laughing again before continuing)... because you make yourself look ignorant and no one will ever take you seriously ever again. I know I won't.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    CPU + GPU does not equal dual-core processor? I'm confused. Central Processing Unit AND Graphics Processing Unit. Now that the GPU isn't in use... we have one processor working. "One software update will essentially turn the Pre into a dual-core processor." That statement is most definitely factual. The word essentially was not misleading. It would've been misleading if I hadn't used that word. And yes, everything will be quicker once the GPU is utilized. Flipping between cards, scrolling, opening apps, etc. EVERYTHING will be quicker, just like a 3Gs.

    Umm... yes it is. The Pre will run faster than the 3Gs once its GPU drivers are actually put to use. That's all there is to it. Offloading the graphics instructions to the GPU will free up a ton of space for the CPU, *essentially* turning it into a dual-core processor with one software update.
    Last edited by donm527; 11/01/2009 at 07:44 AM.
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    #766  
    Quote Originally Posted by winb83 View Post
    i found a guy on CL offering to sell a Hero for $200. he's meeting me at the Sprint store when they open so we can do the transaction. he just got it a few days ago and wants to switch back to his older phone.

    i was pretty cool with my Pre but i can't say no to a $200 Hero. if i don't like it it fetched $400 on eBay and if i like it better than the Pre that phone can get me at least $200 on eBay.
    That's what I picked up my Hero for on CL. I'm keeping both phones as updates will be coming down the pipe soon. Looking forward to Android 2.0 hopefully before the end of the year.
  7. drizek's Avatar
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    #767  
    Thats why I never bothered with insurance. When I bought my Pre, they were already selling for about $200 on ebay. THe deductible on the insurance is $100, so it seems pretty dumb to get it. If you assume that it will last a year without breaking, then the total cost with insurance would be $100 + $84 in monthly charges. That is about hte same as getting one off of ebay.

    Of course, with ebay you might be able to get the Pre 2 for the same price a year from now, although hopefully they will be selling well enough that this would not be the case.
  8. #768  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    Wow... you really have no idea what you are talking about and you don't even realize it. Is everything you know about the phone from reading the inter-web?

    Seriously... I am really trying to give you friendly advice here...

    If I were you I would delete all you wrote about CPU+GPU= "essentially" dual processor... (I had to take a few minutes to stop laughing again before continuing)... because you make yourself look ignorant and no one will ever take you seriously ever again. I know I won't.
    Hah... well, what I said is still correct. In essence, we have a single core processor right now that is just barely making it. Once the graphics processor is utilized, it will "essentially", "in essence" be a dual-core processor because the GPU won't be used for games. It will strictly be used for the OS. I never said it IS/WILL BE a dual-core processor. Fact remains that "one software update will ESSENTIALLY turn the Pre into a dual-core processor." The benefit of actually utilizing the GPU will be VIRTUALLY the same as having a Pre right now with a dual-core processor and no GPU. Because that software update is not going to enable graphics APIs for games. The update will essentially speed up the sliding drop-down menus, the transitions between different cards, the scrolling in apps like Web, etc....

    Take what you want from that statement, but it is completely accurate in terms of the construct that I have understood the English language to be. Perhaps we should throw out words like "essentially" and "virtually", just because you don't like them??
  9. #769  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    A dual-core processor typically refers to two CPU cores, not a CPU + GPU. You don't call a PC dual-processor just because you have a graphics card in it in addition to your CPU. The same goes for dual-core.
    I never called it a dual-core processor. I threw the term "essentially" in there because it had a meaning. Perhaps using the term "virtually" wouldn't have thrown you guys off so much. I already went over this with the other guy... that utilizing the GPU will only be going toward functions of the OS, so in essence, that one software update will "virtually", "kinda but not exactly" turn the Pre into a dual-core processor... because the GPU won't be utilized for games at first.

    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    First of all, the Pre and the iPhone 3GS have the same CPU, except the 3GS' is clocked at 600MHz, the Pre's is 500MHz. Besides that, the 3GS and the Pre both have a PowerVR SGX GPU. I don't see how you could ever say that the Pre will be more powerful than the 3GS with GPU usage.
    No. The 3Gs has a 800MHz proc underclocked to 600MHz. The Pre has a 600MHz processor underclocked to 500MHz.

    The Pre will be faster, but I can't really prove it, and there's really no point in arguing about it on the Interwebz.

    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    In addition, the 3GS has the potential for games to use native GPU instructions, which the Pre will probably not at first release of GPU support. You'd basically only be half using the GPU - to do screen draws and such, not native 3D rendering. This, as I said, will offer quite a bit of improvement. But saying it'll be dual-core, or more powerful than the 3GS is entirely misleading. I'd be willing to bet that you're only going to save maybe 20-30% CPU time by offloading screen draws, if that. That's a respectable amount, sure, but you're still definitely exaggerating the benefit.
    So, again... I never said the Pre has or will have a dual-core processor. Continuing on...

    You'd be surprised about the screen draws. That's pretty intense stuff. I have a hunch that the reason that these newer smartphone UIs kill battery so much is because you're flicking thru webpages. A simple page up/down button will conserve A TON of battery compared to using the scroll wheel on a mouse. Flicking the page means the CPU has to redraw the page about 20+ times, whereas a page down button would've only taken 1 time. Same goes for the drop-down menus. They slide down and it has to redraw about 20 times. All those effects kill battery and CPU processes. Once the GPU is utilized, battery life will increase by about 50%... and, of course, things will speed up by AT LEAST 50%, which will give it the effect [to Joe Sixpack] that he now has a dual-core processor, since he still won't be able to play games like the 3Gs can.
  10. #770  
    Well like I have stated before in this thread I have both and am using the Hero right now. However, should Palm release the expected Facebook app and include video capture support in the next release I will be switching back to using the Pre as my primary device.

    I am really starting to miss the swipe to delete txt messages. Also I just can not increase my accuracy in typing either.
    Corey

    Current Devices: Palm Pre 2, HTC Thunderbolt, Motorola Atrix, Samsung Focus and Apple's iPhone 4
  11. #771  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    The Pre will be faster, but I can't really prove it, and there's really no point in arguing about it on the Interwebz.
    it really hard to argue with logic like that... i imagine real information would just bounce off logic like that and make no difference to you.

    guess we will believe what we want to believe... but really (at least try once )... CPU + GPU does not even come close to being a dual core in any stretch of the imagination.

    the gpu is a one trick pony... all it does is crunch complex calculations used mostly in graphics. it waits for instructions from the CPU and sends it back and waits for the next... it doesnt manage anything else. it doesnt control any other processes that a CPU does. Like "rainman" it just counts toothpicks real fast when you throw a bunch in front of it and quickly spits you back the number and waits for the next batch of toothpicks.

    can the phone perform faster than now if they optimize the programming and incorporate the GPU more as you think... your logic i guess is because you feel it runs so close measured in smoothness of operation that using the gpu it is surely going to run faster than the 3GS? there is so much more than that you are not factoring in oh well.
  12. #772  
    Believe me, I could go over many theories as to why I think the Pre will be faster than the 3Gs after the GPU is actually utilized... but I'm not in theorizing mode right now.

    Fact is that the Pre's CPU wastes A LOT of energy that the GPU could be doing (drop-down menus, scrolling, opening cards, flipping between cards, etc.). That's virtually everything that WebOS is doing... and it'll all be processed in the GPU, not the CPU. Once the GPU is actually utilized, the CPU won't have too terribly much to do. The battery life will last about 50% greater. The speed will prolly be about 100% greater (or 2x if you weren't any good at math).

    Apparently, you feel the need to argue right now. And I'll be more than happy to assist you whenever I return later tonight or tomorrow. So go ahead and knock this conversation off. Here's the comment we're referring to... "One software update will essentially turn the Pre into a dual-core processor."

    Which part of that comment, taken as a whole or broken down into individual parts, do you not agree with? I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you think that comment means I said "one software update will turn the Pre into a dual-core processor"... but you'd be as wrong as you can be. At the core of the meaning, essentially, virtually... A LOT of the work done by the CPU will be offloaded onto the GPU, and it WILL have the appearance of working twice as fast and having a ton more battery, which means... ESSENTIALLY, one software update will turn your Pre into something it wasn't before the update, activating another processor which you didn't know about (a processor nonetheless, which will be doing A LOT in terms of how WebOS operates). Which part of that comment don't you understand? I never said what you think I said, and if you can't accept that... you need to pick up a dictionary.
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    #773  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    Believe me, I could go over many theories as to why I think the Pre will be faster than the 3Gs after the GPU is actually utilized... but I'm not in theorizing mode right now.

    Fact is that the Pre's CPU wastes A LOT of energy that the GPU could be doing (drop-down menus, scrolling, opening cards, flipping between cards, etc.). That's virtually everything that WebOS is doing... and it'll all be processed in the GPU, not the CPU. Once the GPU is actually utilized, the CPU won't have too terribly much to do. The battery life will last about 50% greater. The speed will prolly be about 100% greater (or 2x if you weren't any good at math).

    Apparently, you feel the need to argue right now. And I'll be more than happy to assist you whenever I return later tonight or tomorrow. So go ahead and knock this conversation off. Here's the comment we're referring to... "One software update will essentially turn the Pre into a dual-core processor."

    Which part of that comment, taken as a whole or broken down into individual parts, do you not agree with? I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you think that comment means I said "one software update will turn the Pre into a dual-core processor"... but you'd be as wrong as you can be. At the core of the meaning, essentially, virtually... A LOT of the work done by the CPU will be offloaded onto the GPU, and it WILL have the appearance of working twice as fast and having a ton more battery, which means... ESSENTIALLY, one software update will turn your Pre into something it wasn't before the update, activating another processor which you didn't know about (a processor nonetheless, which will be doing A LOT in terms of how WebOS operates). Which part of that comment don't you understand? I never said what you think I said, and if you can't accept that... you need to pick up a dictionary.
    I feel like you have blown a lot of this out of proportion.

    For one, you act like the speed will increase dramatically just because the GPU will be implemented. It's not as though the CPU is using 50% of its power right now trying to render things on the screen. There will be a speed increase, but it will be minimal. What will happen is the CPU will be slightly alleviated of responsibilities, and the smoothness of everything will improve quite a bit. But the Pre isn't going to magically have twice the power, twice the speed and be faster than the iPhone 3GS. Same thing with battery life, it will improve, but it won't be drastic. The GPU will be doing things more efficiently, but it is another thing that will require power.

    Secondly, it isn't just as simple as flipping a switch and saying, "Alright, GPU, now you do the work!" First there needs to be a GPU driver, then there needs to be hooks for the OS to use the GPU, then the OS needs to basically be rewritten in order to use the GPU and OpenGL or WebGL or whatever they use. That last part is probably the biggest thing.

    You also act like this is coming, possibly in the near future. It isn't. It might never come. This is a huge thing, something that just can't be turned on. They needed to create the OS around the GPU and they didn't. Now they would have to go in and redo everything. They aren't going to do that. They don't have the resources to do that, especially since they can't even get simple things like text forwarding corrected. They just now hired ONE PERSON who is a GPU guru. You think he alone is going to be able to get this all cranked out in the immediate future? What is more likely is they brought him in for games, which is probably the only thing the GPU will ever be used for.

    So I would just give up. You will see a Pre 2 (or 3) before you see a GPU-powered WebOS.
  14. #774  
    No one agrees with you man, give it up, it will not "essentially" turn it into a phone with a dual-core processor, I am sorry, that is not what it does, thats not what happens with PCs or anything else that utilizes a GPU. I do not "essentially" have a desktop with a 5 core processor, I have a quad core processor and a Graphics card.

    We understand what you are trying to say, it is just inaccurate.
  15. #775  
    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    I feel like you have blown a lot of this out of proportion.
    The only thing that has been blown out of proportion is the English language.

    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    For one, you act like the speed will increase dramatically just because the GPU will be implemented. It's not as though the CPU is using 50% of its power right now trying to render things on the screen. There will be a speed increase, but it will be minimal. What will happen is the CPU will be slightly alleviated of responsibilities, and the smoothness of everything will improve quite a bit. But the Pre isn't going to magically have twice the power, twice the speed and be faster than the iPhone 3GS. Same thing with battery life, it will improve, but it won't be drastic. The GPU will be doing things more efficiently, but it is another thing that will require power.
    The speed WILL increase dramatically, tho. The CPU can't handle all the graphical effects that WebOS is using as it is. Scrolling a page is a GREAT example of one effect. That is something that the GPU will be doing once it's enabled. Right now, the CPU can't handle it. Once the GPU is enabled, everybody's gonna be like, "Wow... there's no more lag. It seems like it all just went away. Do I have a dual-core processor in here?" :P

    And yes, the GPU will be using power, but it's using power right now. As long as electrons are flowing thru it... it's using power. It will use more power, but overall... the power usage will be less than letting the CPU sit at 100% all the time. And THAT is why I said there will only be a 50% increase in battery life, and not 100%. But the percived speed difference will be quite a bit more than 2x. To go from what we have now to a Pre with a utilized GPU is going to be a HUGE difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    Secondly, it isn't just as simple as flipping a switch and saying, "Alright, GPU, now you do the work!" First there needs to be a GPU driver, then there needs to be hooks for the OS to use the GPU, then the OS needs to basically be rewritten in order to use the GPU and OpenGL or WebGL or whatever they use. That last part is probably the biggest thing.

    You also act like this is coming, possibly in the near future. It isn't. It might never come. This is a huge thing, something that just can't be turned on. They needed to create the OS around the GPU and they didn't. Now they would have to go in and redo everything. They aren't going to do that. They don't have the resources to do that, especially since they can't even get simple things like text forwarding corrected. They just now hired ONE PERSON who is a GPU guru. You think he alone is going to be able to get this all cranked out in the immediate future? What is more likely is they brought him in for games, which is probably the only thing the GPU will ever be used for.
    One guru very well might be able to do more than a hundred dweebs. The drivers will come in a few months. The OS will see the hooks and be rewritten in a few months after that. 6-8 months we will have that one software update that "essentially turns your Pre into a dual-core processor". WebOS is nothing but graphical effects, really. Once the GPU takes care of the scrolling, the drop-down menus, opening apps, card management, etc... the CPU won't get above ~20% that often. Going from 100% to 20% will make it SEEM LIKE you've got a quad-core processor, honestly. I don't think I went far enough by saying it'll SEEM LIKE you have a dual-core processor with that one software update. QUAD-CORE is what I should've said.

    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    So I would just give up. You will see a Pre 2 (or 3) before you see a GPU-powered WebOS.
    There is no such thing as a Pre 2, and there probly won't be for a couple years. The Pre 1.5 will have increased internal memory. If you honestly think Palm will add more than that... you need to check out Palm's history. Don't even just check them out... check out the state of the smartphone industry. There's not much more to add besides more internal memory, expandable memory, OLED screen [maybe with higher res], and a compass. v1.5 will probly have nothing but a bumped up internal memory... v2.0 will probly have the expandable memory slot & OLED screen... v3.0 will have the compass and whatever else you can think of. They're not just gonna throw all that into the Pre 2, I'm sorry. They've gotta feed it to you slow, since you guys will get a new upgrade credit after only 12-mo, instead of 22-mo.

    OK, I'm really out this time. Can't wait to continue this tomorrow.
  16. #776  
    Quote Originally Posted by wrxdrunkie View Post
    No one agrees with you man, give it up, it will not "essentially" turn it into a dual-core processor, I am sorry, that is not what it does, thats not what happens with PCs or anything else. I do not "essentially" have a desktop with a 5 core processor, I have a quad core desktop, with a Graphics card.

    We understand what you are trying to say, it is just inaccurate.
    If you understand what I'm trying to say, then it's not inaccurate. If you saw me say that the Pre has a dual-core processor, I'd call myself an *****. But that's not what was said.

    You have to understand that virtually (don't skip that word - virtually) everything WebOS does now is HIGHLY graphics intensive. The reason adding GPU drivers to a desktop wouldn't "essentially" turn it into a dual-core processor is because your desktop probably wasn't using any special, graphical effects. Whether you were using Windows XP or GNOME/KDE on Linux... there were no highly intensive graphical effects. If you took OS10, OTOH, and released it without GPU drivers.... the thing would run slow as sheet, like WebOS on the Pre. Now, release those drivers, and OS10 will essentially be running on a dual-core processor because of the intensive processes that it was doing compared to the other OSes.

    Everything is relative, and in this example WebOS relates to OS10. Add GPU drivers to Windows 98, and guess what... it's still "virtually" a single-core processor, because the OS is still not offloading any processes to the GPU. Amazing, right?
  17. UF15's Avatar
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    #777  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    The speed WILL increase dramatically, tho. The CPU can't handle all the graphical effects that WebOS is using as it is. Scrolling a page is a GREAT example of one effect. That is something that the GPU will be doing once it's enabled. Right now, the CPU can't handle it. Once the GPU is enabled, everybody's gonna be like, "Wow... there's no more lag. It seems like it all just went away. Do I have a dual-core processor in here?" :P
    The overall speed of the device won't improve dramatically. It will still take about as long to launch apps or move around in the calendar. The GPU isn't holding the Pre back there. Javascript and poor optimization are. If they ever get the GPU involved with GUI rendering and do it well (that is key) you will see smooth scrolling and transitions. It will make it a much more pleasant experience, but it isn't to make the Pre seem like a new phone.

    If you disagree. Explain to me why and quantify how much faster it will be.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    And yes, the GPU will be using power, but it's using power right now. As long as electrons are flowing thru it... it's using power. It will use more power, but overall... the power usage will be less than letting the CPU sit at 100% all the time. And THAT is why I said there will only be a 50% increase in battery life, and not 100%. But the percived speed difference will be quite a bit more than 2x. To go from what we have now to a Pre with a utilized GPU is going to be a HUGE difference.
    Where are you even getting a 50% increase in battery life? What do you base that on? Yeah, the CPU isn't ideal at rendering graphics, but it isn't being exerted so much that it is single-handily draining the battery on graphic rendering. Just because you fabricate numbers doesn't mean they are realistic or likely.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    One guru very well might be able to do more than a hundred dweebs. The drivers will come in a few months. The OS will see the hooks and be rewritten in a few months after that. 6-8 months we will have that one software update that "essentially turns your Pre into a dual-core processor". WebOS is nothing but graphical effects, really. Once the GPU takes care of the scrolling, the drop-down menus, opening apps, card management, etc... the CPU won't get above ~20% that often. Going from 100% to 20% will make it SEEM LIKE you've got a quad-core processor, honestly. I don't think I went far enough by saying it'll SEEM LIKE you have a dual-core processor with that one software update. QUAD-CORE is what I should've said.
    One guru might be able to do more than a hundred dweebs, but do you really think that is likely? If this guy were so good, that he could do the work of 100 intelligent developers, why isn't another company with more money to pay him snatching him up? Look, I am sure this guy is talented, but I wouldn't deify him. Apple has a whole team of people doing this, and they can afford to hire whoever they want. Android doesn't even have this right and they have more engineers and money than almost anybody.

    Where are you basing this "in a few months after that" stuff? It sounds to me like you are just wishfully thinking and have convinced yourself that there is truth in this. There isn't. You have no inside knowledge and you clearly have no reasonable idea how long it takes to develop these things. Look at WebOS, look at what it is based on. There isn't a way to get Javascript to talk to a GPU current;y. Not a single way. There is WebGL on the horizon, but we are looking at mid-2010 before we see it in its infancy, which probably isn't up for the stuff you are discussing.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    There is no such thing as a Pre 2, and there probly won't be for a couple years. The Pre 1.5 will have increased internal memory. If you honestly think Palm will add more than that... you need to check out Palm's history. Don't even just check them out... check out the state of the smartphone industry. There's not much more to add besides more internal memory, expandable memory, OLED screen [maybe with higher res], and a compass. v1.5 will probly have nothing but a bumped up internal memory... v2.0 will probly have the expandable memory slot & OLED screen... v3.0 will have the compass and whatever else you can think of. They're not just gonna throw all that into the Pre 2, I'm sorry. They've gotta feed it to you slow, since you guys will get a new upgrade credit after only 12-mo, instead of 22-mo.
    You say things like "you need to check out Palm's history" as an indication that, based on their past, they won't really do much with the next revision. Well that same Palm history you referred to also tells us that Palm is going to rest on their laurels and do nothing about things like GPU access, right? So which is it, the old Palm or a new Palm?

    Secondly, there are plenty of things Palm could improve on their next flagship phone model (or revision). Better materials, better construction, better keyboard, faster and more battery-efficient processor, a better GPU (if they ever get that up like you claim), more RAM, a more power-efficient radio, 4G radio, higher resolution screen, OLED screen, more storage, expandable storage, a compass, a better camera, make it thinner or lighter. If Palm does just a fraction of those things for the Pre 2 (or whatever the next flagship model is), it will be a major upgrade.

    What is most important is they CAN'T feed it to us slowly because we won't wait. They have competition from Apple and Google. If they refuse to upgrade the screen resolution, or RAM or internal storage, customers will choose a phone that does. Do you see how the market works?

    Look, I don't mean to be insulting, but it is hard to argue with the irrational. You need to be realistic here instead of blindly hopeful.
  18. #778  
    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    Look, I don't mean to be insulting, but it is hard to argue with the irrational. You need to be realistic here instead of blindly hopeful.
    And in some ways it's insulting that someone is going to argue with people that actually had to study and have a better knowledge of how CPUs and GPUs work as well as people that actually work in the hardware field that have real experience dealing with different scenarios and know what kind of real performance numbers are obtained through dream scenarios like yours and say this and back it up by saying "but I can't really prove it."

    I wish when upgrading HP G3 servers with dual core Xeons to G5s with Quad cores, I WISH that my networks performance increased 50% instantly or that my users saw a 50% performance increase... but it doesnt work that way in the real world there.

    and you can keep typing whole screens full of garbage if you want but if the bottom line you come back to "The Pre will be faster, but I can't really prove it, and there's really no point in arguing about it on the Interwebz." It's all worthless.
    Last edited by donm527; 11/03/2009 at 11:01 AM.
  19. #779  
    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    The overall speed of the device won't improve dramatically. It will still take about as long to launch apps or move around in the calendar. The GPU isn't holding the Pre back there. Javascript and poor optimization are. If they ever get the GPU involved with GUI rendering and do it well (that is key) you will see smooth scrolling and transitions. It will make it a much more pleasant experience, but it isn't to make the Pre seem like a new phone. If you disagree. Explain to me why and quantify how much faster it will be.
    With that one software update, the phone will go from lagging at everything it does to virtually no lag whatsoever. That's all there is to it. The GPU will be used for opening apps (notice how it slides from off the screen to on the screen, that's something the GPU would be doing that the CPU is doing now), for the drop-down menus (the CPU is simply refreshing the screen a whole buncha times), for the cards view in general, and for scrolling. THAT is what is taxing the CPU so much. It's not so much the javascript and poor optimization as it is the CPU trying to do the job of the GPU. To quantify how fast it will be cannot be done, but I can assure you that when doing all the beautiful transitions it does now... there will be no lag, and that right there will give a perceivable difference of GREATER THAN TWO TIMES. There would be no more checkerboard when scrolling a huge web page. There would just be no more lag at all. There's nothing more to it than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    Where are you even getting a 50% increase in battery life? What do you base that on? Yeah, the CPU isn't ideal at rendering graphics, but it isn't being exerted so much that it is single-handily draining the battery on graphic rendering.
    It comes from a mixture of experience, logic, and common sense. The biggest hit to the Pre right now is the CPU trying to do the job of a CPU and GPU. If you do nothing but flick up and down in the browser all day (well, you wouldn't make it all day), you'd actually only end up flicking for a couple hours if that. Each time you flick the page, it's redrawing the screen 20+ times, depending on how far you flick it. That is something that the GPU would take over and an overall net decrease in power consumption would be realized. The CPU power would decrease, the GPU power would barely increase if any at all. The GPU is using power just being in there, so whenever it's actually put to use, the power consumption will barely increase for the minimal tasks it needs to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    Where are you basing this "in a few months after that" stuff? It sounds to me like you are just wishfully thinking and have convinced yourself that there is truth in this. There isn't. You have no inside knowledge and you clearly have no reasonable idea how long it takes to develop these things. Look at WebOS, look at what it is based on. There isn't a way to get Javascript to talk to a GPU current;y. Not a single way. There is WebGL on the horizon, but we are looking at mid-2010 before we see it in its infancy, which probably isn't up for the stuff you are discussing.
    Again, it comes from business logic and common sense. If Palm wants to stick around for very long, they need to implement the OS so that it offloads the pretty graphical nonsense from the CPU to the GPU ("essentially turning the Pre into a dual-core device"). They have no interest in games; they want to make the OS a lot snappier, and they want the battery life to increase, and there's only so much you can do with javascript optimizations. Getting the OS to use the GPU for its MANY graphical transitions is their plan. Why would you want to do anything else other than put the GPU to use that you paid for and is sucking battery life as it is, just sitting there??

    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    You say things like "you need to check out Palm's history" as an indication that, based on their past, they won't really do much with the next revision. Well that same Palm history you referred to also tells us that Palm is going to rest on their laurels and do nothing about things like GPU access, right? So which is it, the old Palm or a new Palm?
    You don't think that Palm can be both old and new at the same time? What is it with people who don't realize there's a multitude of variables involved with a company. Yes, Palm is new in the sense that it is more of a software company than a hardware company. But at the same time, Palm is still the old company that it was, releasing one killer device and only making minor upgrades every 12-18 months. I can assure you that the Pre won't receive any major upgrades until 2011, because there's not much more that the device needs. Memory upgrade to v1.5 will come next year. After that, who knows... but it's all very minor stuff that you wouldn't be able to differentiate from the Pre I've got right now, at least not in terms of practicality. Palm is just too small to be giving you everything that you want all in one whop. They need to release things in minor upgrades so that they can make a profit and can throw in hardware when it's most beneficial for them and their users as a whole. WiMax would be a great example. Palm is not gonna add that in their phones until 2011 at the earliest. They can't afford to put it in every single phone when not even half their customer-base will be able to use it until 2011. It only makes good business sense, ESPECIALLY when the Pre w/ Rev A is nearly as fast as with WiFi as it is. They're in it to milk every last dime they can, as well as they should be if they plan to stay in business. I wish they would give me a Pre with compass, OLED, and WiMax in 6 months... but getting WebOS to offload the majority of the CPU's processes to the GPU is their top priority for "upgrading" the Pre, I'm sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    Secondly, there are plenty of things Palm could improve on their next flagship phone model (or revision). Better materials, better construction, better keyboard, faster and more battery-efficient processor, a better GPU (if they ever get that up like you claim), more RAM, a more power-efficient radio, 4G radio, higher resolution screen, OLED screen, more storage, expandable storage, a compass, a better camera, make it thinner or lighter. If Palm does just a fraction of those things for the Pre 2 (or whatever the next flagship model is), it will be a major upgrade.
    Right... well, I'd love all that stuff, too. But Palm won't be delivering all that to you in one package until it's damm near the end of the world in 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    What is most important is they CAN'T feed it to us slowly because we won't wait. They have competition from Apple and Google. If they refuse to upgrade the screen resolution, or RAM or internal storage, customers will choose a phone that does. Do you see how the market works?
    Yes, of course I see how the market works. That's why they are going to be putting everything they have into getting WebOS optimized for use with the GPU, as it has numerous benefits. A compass really doesn't benefit too many people, 4G doesn't benefit enough people, OLED screen would go unnoticed by most people unless they saw a spec sheet, etc. The Pre's hardware is better than most realize. Palm will be doing far more in terms of getting the software where they need it to be. Once the software is good enough, then they'll start giving you better hardware... but that's gonna take a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    Look, I don't mean to be insulting, but it is hard to argue with the irrational. You need to be realistic here instead of blindly hopeful.
    It is hard to argue with the irrational, isn't it? When a pack of people attack me for saying something I never said... it's hard for me to argue when they never really understood what I said to begin with.

    Take donm, for example... he wanted to argue about that one comment, but he never addressed it whatsoever in his most recent comment. He didn't even touch it at all, because he's more or less conceding that I'm right.

    If you have an OS that is nothing but graphics, like WebOS... and the CPU is maxed out at 100% from all these screen refreshes... enabling the GPU will seem like the Pre has a dual-core processor (or even a quad-core) from the speed bump you'll see. There will be NO LAG, and the battery life will increase dramatically. To go from lag at every tap to NO LAG could seem like you've got an infinite-core processor. :P

    And I'd love to respond to donm directly, but I actually have to run again. Understanding how the CPU is taxed to the max by constantly redrawing the screen for the drop-down menus, for opening apps, for scrolling inside apps, for switching between cards, for card management in general.... will certainly help you out. Until you realize that the CPU is doing all that, when the GPU *will* be doing that with that one update will help you understand how WebOS will feel more like it has activated a dual-core processor with one software upgrade. TTFN.. Ta Ta For Now!
  20. #780  
    you must be joking around right? ok, that was funny... LOL... because no way you can be this... uh... smart

    if not then i will concede to your intelligence and i'll leave you alone... that aluminum foil is just too thick to get through. in a previous post i did address your issue trying telling you how the GPU is a one-trick pony and would not 'essentially' give you a dual core. that's why they call it a 'graphical' processsing unit and not 'central' dude.

    you obviously do not have any professional experience in hardware or software besides what you probably play with at home (os10?) so there is no point.

    I currently work at a mental health center and you know what i do with clients that want to spew stuff that you do?

    I smile at them, nod my head and keep on walking. I let them live in their world happily and not burst their bubble while I deal with reality.

    you can't see it but i'm smiling at you and walking away

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