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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Skyfire on WM works with all Flash sites that a desktop browser can work with. Even video sites using the lastest version of Flash.

    I guess you've never used Skyfire on WM?

    Again, all the talk about what is coming can be said for any platform. What matters (at least for me) is what one can do today.
    Darnell - he talked of using it on other Treos, plural. And also spoke of how difficult it was to implement. Sorry, but he wasn't talking about Skyfire on WM units, he was talking about PalmOS units. They're the ones you had to jump through hoops to get working.

    And no, I've never used Skyfire on WM. I've never owned a WM device. I've supported a few, and that was enough to convince me I don't want WM.

    I don't have anything against anyone that likes them, just not really the point of discussion here. Even the OP wasn't talking about WM or the Pro, he was talking about his 700P.

    As to "all this talk", - it might not be relevant to you, but this is a discussion forum, and not all about you and what you want or need. Personally, I believe that Palm's decision to wait on the Flash project mentioned is both relevant to the OP's points about "why", and to the general focus of a Palm Pre Discussion Forum!!!

    Focus man... Focus.
    Last edited by hparsons; 08/05/2009 at 01:31 PM.
  2. #62  
    I used a 700P for 2.5 years before switching to the Pre two weeks ago. There are definitively things I miss that I am willing to wait for, but they are irritating. Notifications are miserable (and the homebrew app doesn't come close to something like Chatter). As was mentioned, the movie player is severely limited. The lack of a card sounded like a killer initially but then I realized I rarely if ever changed cards on the 700P. The lack of a fully developed backup system (like Rescoe) is a major limitation, since now there is no one way to backup everything. I am not a big slider fan. I liked being able to just pick up the device and type away. So far I don't like the Pre keyboard as well as the 700, but it's functional. Given those limitations, though, there are many things I love about the Pre. Wifi (I have found myself in several areas where I had a lousy Sprint signal but access to wireless); the browser; A2DP which works like a charm; a decent camera with flash; the form factor (I carry mine in my shirt pocket with no case); and one of the very best advantages, the Touchstone. I'm confident this device will catch up quickly...worth the switch for me.
  3. #63  
    Davidra - good points. When others were bemoaning the fact that the Pre doesn't have removable media (BTW, I agree with them in principle, but I don't know the reasons for Palm's decision), I was OK with it because my 4gb card in my Treo 755P has about 2gb of data on it, and much of that is backups of the phone.

    I'm hoping we something more sophisticated on the backup arena as well. I suspect we'll see something that does an rsync backup. Well, that's what I'm hoping for, and believe will happen.

    I thought Chatter was more of an IM program than a notification. I used Lightwave on my Treo, and would love to see them do something similar for the Pre.

    I had trouble with the keyboard at first, but noticed the other day that I'm using it about the same speed as I did my Treo. It's funny, but my biggest typing issue is that I still try to type Treo keystrokes instead of those for fo the Pre. My "," starts off as a "_" 9 times out of 10.

    All of your positives I could echo back, including that I too am confident it will catch up, and that it's worth the switch.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Darnell - he talked of using it on other Treos, plural. And also spoke of how difficult it was to implement. Sorry, but he wasn't talking about Skyfire on WM units, he was talking about PalmOS units. They're the ones you had to jump through hoops to get working.

    And no, I've never used Skyfire on WM. I've never owned a WM device. I've supported a few, and that was enough to convince me I don't want WM.

    I don't have anything against anyone that likes them, just not really the point of discussion here. Even the OP wasn't talking about WM or the Pro, he was talking about his 700P.

    As to "all this talk", - it might not be relevant to you, but this is a discussion forum, and not all about you and what you want or need. Personally, I believe that Palm's decision to wait on the Flash project mentioned is both relevant to the OP's points about "why", and to the general focus of a Palm Pre Discussion Forum!!!

    Focus man... Focus.
    This is getting a bit petty. You try to tell me what I should focus on, but take issue when I say I'm not worried about promises but rather what is. You have no more control over my statements than I over yours. That would be none.

    Chill. I'll talk about what I care to talk about just like you.

    Bpdamas already said they agreed with my assement of their statement.

    If the OP does not want WM, I'm still going to talk about it and you're not the moderator.
    Last edited by darnell; 08/05/2009 at 03:50 PM.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    This is getting a bit petty. You try to tell me what I should focus on, but take issue when I say I'm not worried about promises but rather what is. You have no more control over my statements than I over yours. That would be none.

    Chill. I'll talk about what I care to talk about just like you.

    Bpdamas already said they agreed with my assement of their statement.

    If the OP does not want WM, I'm still going to talk about it and you're not the moderator.
    Nah, not trying to moderate. However, you quoted me, so I figured the post was directed at me. The browser issue didn't relate to the Pro, but the PalmOS. Just trying to keep the viewpoint focused.
    FWIW, my Suse Linux desktop doesn't have any problem with Flash either, but that's not really relevant to the OP.
    As far as the "moderation" goes; again, talking about things to come on a Pre is relevant on a Pre discussion forum. You may not care abou what's to come, but others do, and it's part of discussion.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Nah, not trying to moderate. However, you quoted me, so I figured the post was directed at me. The browser issue didn't relate to the Pro, but the PalmOS. Just trying to keep the viewpoint focused.
    For several in this thread other than yourself, the Treo Pro being a Treo and made by Palm is part of this. Although your concern is the obsolete PalmOS, it does not prevent me from mentioning:

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    If you had a Treo Pro you would not have those complaints about the Treo.
    Which is where I first quoted you.

    I did not quote you again till I responded to some of your statements with:

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    That was Bpdamas' point. Every Flash site.

    Sure it's been said webOS will get it, but that's like saying WM will get a device with the Pre form factor or something else. Today things are what they are and Pre can't do Flash.



    You'll find Charles at times won't answer a question. For his own reasons.

    I would not read anything into it. But for whatever reason, he's obviously staying mum on that.
    1. To explain what Bpdamas was talking about and they clearly stated Windows Mobile in their comment. It was after you responded to them, continuing the discussion.

    You then went into another response to Bpdamas (the person who was clearly talking about Windows Mobile). I then responded to you given Windows Mobile has a browser that can work with any Flash video site.

    So things have been pretty focused and WM has been part of the discussion.

    If you don't care to talk about WM anymore, that is your option, but it does not require me to follow suit. In a "Pre vs Treo" thread I'll speak freely about any and all Treos. Even if the OP was not considering a WM Treo, I'll take the liberty of informing about what the WM Treo can do now. Given the OP has noted several things they desire in functionality and there is a Treo that meets those needs.

    2. To explain how Charles often refuses to comment on certain things. But Charles made it clear Kinoma can only do so much with an obsolete OS (Palm OS) and they can do more with an OS that has more capability (WM). As to what Kinoma will do with webOS, that remains to be seen.


    FWIW, my Suse Linux desktop doesn't have any problem with Flash either, but that's not really relevant to the OP.
    Not really relevant to me either, but if you want to talk about Suse Linux, knock yourself out.

    As far as the "moderation" goes; again, talking about things to come on a Pre is relevant on a Pre discussion forum. You may not care abou what's to come, but others do, and it's part of discussion.
    We all know there has been talk about bringing Flash to webOS, I was the first in this thread to say it. I never said you can't talk about it. Maybe we'll all have a webOS device in the future, or maybe while Palm is coming with innovations other companies will also.
  7. #67  
    This sort of thread needs to be in the Cross-Platform Chat:
    Treo vs. iPhone. Windows Mobile vs. BlackBerry. This is the place for "What should I get" and "My smartphone can beat up your smartphone."

    Roland, I think you had your answer.

    But those apps you are wanting to replace are not the things I miss most from my Treo. The Pre is still missing basic features like full cut and paste, highlighting, music slider, text forwarding, undo, redo, and so much more.

    See the Missing Basic Features on page 1 of the Tips and Tricks.

    Before Palm addresses adding any new apps, I just want the Pre to have the basic features I have had for years in my Treo.

    As to why make the move...it's evolution. Although I had a ton of VHS tapes, I made the transition to DVD.

    Part of it for me is that I want to actually see the apps that others are talking about. You have prejudged all of the 100 Homebrew apps are "weak amateurish apps".

    I don't know of anyone who has actually used these apps who would call the developers work "weak" or "amateurish": SimpleBible, BlockDrop (Tetris), Solitaire, My Tether, Translator, Dot Game, Checkers, Chess, etc.

    The result of prejudging is prejudice.

    - Craig
    Last edited by Milominderbinder; 08/06/2009 at 09:48 AM.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    For several in this thread other than yourself, the Treo Pro being a Treo and made by Palm is part of this. Although your concern is the obsolete PalmOS, it does not prevent me from mentioning:
    ...
    Following your threads back, I do see that it appears he was talking about WM browser, but that confuses me even more, since you really don't have to jump through hoops to get WM to do Flash, do you?

    The PalmOS Treos could do it, but it was a major hack, involving applying files from a non Palm branded device to the Treos. It worked, but was ugly.

    At any rate, my point has been, all along, that the OP is looking for a brand new device to do old things, and it ain't going to happen. Some of those things are probalby never going to come, and others will only come with time.

    Some folks may want to go to WM, but I don't really think even that will "cure" his issues (do you really have an Atari ST emulator for WM?).
  9. #69  
    (emphasis added)
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Some folks may want to go to WM, but I don't really think even that will "cure" his issues (do you really have an Atari ST emulator for WM?).
    There is an Atari ST emulator for Windows Mobile.

    Instructions for installing it are here.



    My device history is: Palm Professional -> Visor Prism -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 650 -> Treo 800w -> HTC Touch Pro

    Until the Treo 800w, I had nothing but Palm OS devices. (Once upon a time I said I'd "never" touch a WM device.) And honestly, I don't have much nice to say about the Treo 800w. But the Treo Pro and Touch Pro were both made by HTC, Palm hired HTC to make the Treo Pro. And both have their similarities apart from their physical differences. I really wish my first WM experience was with the Treo Pro rather than the Treo 800w. Because the Treo Pro is a bit more sturdy. I can't speak for WM devices further back in the past, but I do know the newer WM devices are doing fine from my POV, after being a long time Palm OS user. The only issue I have with WM is that it requires more occasional soft resets than Palm OS ever did. But with all that WM can do it's not so big of a deal.

    The Pre was the Sprint designated replacement for the last Palm OS Treo (Treo 755p). (Probably something Palm suggested Sprint do.) So I do understand Palm OS Treo users wanting the Pre to do all they could do with Palm OS Treos and then some. I think webOS has a bright future if the development community remains interested in it.

    Palm has made a bit of a disconnect though. Because they made the Pre, which is not really for the same sort of user as the Treo, but Sprint has the Pre as the replacement for the 755p. So the Palm OS Treo user is kind of left without a home. Unless Palm makes a webOS Treo, which may not come for some time, if ever. I think the Treo Pro will be the last WM based Treo ever, but for now it's a suitable upgrade from a Palm OS Treo IMHO.
  10. #70  
    I vote treo!
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    But Charles made it clear Kinoma can only do so much with an obsolete OS (Palm OS) and they can do more with an OS that has more capability (WM).
    Exactly. A reasonable analogy is that Palm OS is DOS, to WinMo's Windows XP.

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    As to what Kinoma will do with webOS, that remains to be seen.
    As it stands, we couldn't support webOS if we wanted because webOS only supports web apps/widgets right now (like the iPhone did before it had a proper SDK).

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma View Post
    As it stands, we couldn't support webOS if we wanted because webOS only supports web apps/widgets right now (like the iPhone did before it had a proper SDK).

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Well I'm surprised you responded to that one, but thanks for letting us know.

    Since you responded to a question I never thought you'd answer, how about another, any chance Kinoma will have AVRCP (Bluetooth remote control) anytime soon? Is AVRCP support being worked on at all by Kinoma?
  13. twotone's Avatar
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by RolandStone View Post
    ...My other favorite game on the Treo is Warfare, Inc. which, from what I've read, is only a tease under Classic. It opens up and shows the starting animations but is unplayable once you actually start to play...
    I play warefare, inc on my pre using classic. It works fine, but no sound. It takes a little getting used to the gameplay with finger taps instead of stylus, but it's ok.
    Last edited by twotone; 08/07/2009 at 07:49 PM. Reason: Added quote
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma View Post
    ...
    As it stands, we couldn't support webOS if we wanted because webOS only supports web apps/widgets right now (like the iPhone did before it had a proper SDK).

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    I'm more interested in support for the Pre, not WebOS.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    ...
    Palm has made a bit of a disconnect though. Because they made the Pre, which is not really for the same sort of user as the Treo, but Sprint has the Pre as the replacement for the 755p. So the Palm OS Treo user is kind of left without a home. Unless Palm makes a webOS Treo, which may not come for some time, if ever. I think the Treo Pro will be the last WM based Treo ever, but for now it's a suitable upgrade from a Palm OS Treo IMHO.
    Interestig that the ST emulators still seem to abound. To me, it's a novelty item, and that's coming from a guy that used to own an Atari authorized dealership. Once the devices died, I didn't see much use in hanging on to "the old"...

    I disagree about the Pre not "really for the same sort of user as the Treo". I think both seem to attract gadget junkies. At the same time, the Pre also seems to appeal to those that simply want to a powerful phone that's easy to use.

    I had reservations recommending the Palm OS to friends, it was just too finicky. I described it as a "high maintenance OS". I felt WM phones were even more so. No, it looks like Palm has finally found a device that can be both.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I'm more interested in support for the Pre, not WebOS.
    Seems Kinoma wants the most return for their efforts. I mean, it seems they either want to support all webOS devices or not do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I disagree about the Pre not "really for the same sort of user as the Treo". I think both seem to attract gadget junkies. At the same time, the Pre also seems to appeal to those that simply want to a powerful phone that's easy to use.
    When I say the Pre was not made for the Treo crowd, I'm only saying what Palm said. That the Treo is specifically targeted for Enterprise customers, a straight head on competitor with the Blackberry. While the Pre was made for what Ed Colligan used to call the "fat middle". It is seen as a wide range of device users, but not exactly the same market as that of devices like the Treo and Blackberry. The Pre was made more to compete with devices like the iPhone more than the Blackberry. Sure the Pre can be claimed to be something for every crowd, but meanwhile you've got long time Treo owners who are missing staple features they are used to having. Those features are still in the Treo line, but with the Treo Pro.

    Look at where the Treo marketing was always targeted at the start of a Treo device launch, versus the Pre. The Pre was more of a consumer launch, while Treo launches always target the business sector.

    As for "gadget junkies". Well whatever is new might catch a gadget junky's eye. So yea, sure, the Pre was made for gadget junkies.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I'm more interested in support for the Pre, not WebOS.
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Seems Kinoma wants the most return for their efforts. I mean, it seems they either want to support all webOS devices or not do it.
    Exactly (thanks darnell!), sorry if that's confusing.

    webOS is the operating system that the Pre uses, so "Pre apps" are really webOS apps. Pre just happens to be the only webOS device at the moment.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    Since you responded to a question I never thought you'd answer, how about another, any chance Kinoma will have AVRCP (Bluetooth remote control) anytime soon? Is AVRCP support being worked on at all by Kinoma?
    We added AVRCP support a while back, but we haven't made a big hubbub about it since (1) we support the Microsoft-standard Bluetooth stack, and (2) a lot of popular phones currently use proprietary Bluetooth stacks that are incompatible with the Microsoft standard (notably those by HTC).

    The good news is that proprietary/incompatible Bluetooth stacks are going away. With WinMo 6.5, phone makers will apparently be forced to use the standard Bluetooth stack, in which case Kinoma Play's AVRCP support should work on all WinMo 6.5+ phones.

    A good way to catch up with the nitty-gritty details is to search for "ACVRCP" on our forum.

    -- Charles Wiltgen

    P.S. The Palm Treo Pro and Palm Treo 800w are a couple of the forward-looking phones that use the standard Bluetooth stack, so Kinoma Play's AVRCP support works great on those devices.
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma View Post
    We added AVRCP support a while back, but we haven't made a big hubbub about it since (1) we support the Microsoft-standard Bluetooth stack, and (2) a lot of popular phones currently use proprietary Bluetooth stacks that are incompatible with the Microsoft standard (notably those by HTC).

    The good news is that proprietary/incompatible Bluetooth stacks are going away. With WinMo 6.5, phone makers will apparently be forced to use the standard Bluetooth stack, in which case Kinoma Play's AVRCP support should work on all WinMo 6.5+ phones.

    A good way to catch up with the nitty-gritty details is to search for "ACVRCP" on our forum.

    -- Charles Wiltgen

    P.S. The Palm Treo Pro and Palm Treo 800w are a couple of the forward-looking phones that use the standard Bluetooth stack, so Kinoma Play's AVRCP support works great on those devices.
    Thanks!

    I run a custom WM 6.5 ROM on my Touch Pro anyway, so I'll have to test whether AVRCP works with it and report back.

    And I know you don't support custom ROMs .
  20. #80  
    Tried using AVRCP via my Jabra BT3030 on Kinoma with my Touch Pro that has EnergyROM build 8/1/2009. It didn't work. Well it brought up my TF3D Music tab when I hit Play/Pause, but did nothing in Kinoma no matter what button I pressed.

    Kinoma does not support custom ROMs, so this is just informational for those using the same ROM build as me, but EnergyROM has since moved on to newer builds that might work, I have not tried them yet.

    I don't know what the folks at CorePlayer are doing so special, because AVRCP works fine with it regardless of whether I use a WM device made by HTC or Palm and regardless of what ROM I'm using.
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