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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    And you knew every bit of that before you started the discussion. You weren't seriously asking if there was a good reason to change out; you already had your answer - for you, there is not.

    What you were doing is looking for an opportunity to bash the new product which you are obiously having issues about. Simply looking for a reason to bash a device on a forum thread about that device is called trolling.

    FWIW (probably not much, since I don't believe you're actually looking for discussion), if the Pixie had a memory card, you'd still have to give up videocam, stylus, Kinoma, Datebk6, Atari emulation, threaded SMS, and Hotsynced' conacts and memos (the Pixie might have SD card, and you can do tethering and internet radio with WebOS).
    I'm not too quick to pull the "troll" trigger, but hparsons seems to have called it here. It was a foregone conclusion before the first post was submitted.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    There are actually two things I do a lot on my Pre, and seldom did on my Treo, though it was able.

    1. Music as you said, but not for the same reason. I hated the fact that I couldn't use a stereo BT for sound, but the bigger issue was moving the files around. I had never used Pandora before my Pre, and that one program is enough to make me use my phone for music. Nothing did that for me on the Treo.
    2. Web Browsing I used the Treo for web browsing only when absolutely necessary. It was too slow, and too "different" from the web sites that weren't formatted for it. I find myself using my laptop at home about 40% less than I used to.
    If you had a Treo Pro you would not have those complaints about the Treo. The Treo Pro does BT stereo and the WM version of Pandora works fine on it. Plenty of Treo Pro owners use the device as their in-car media player. And with the ability to use 16GB MicroSDHC, that's as much space as an iPhone 3Gs. Once 32GB MicroSDHC is available, a simple change of a card and the Treo Pro will hold a little more than the 32GB iPhone 3Gs, when you include the Treo Pro's internal storage on top of the MicroSDHC space.

    Things like video recording were available on WM Treos even before the Treo Pro. (So was 16GB and soon 32GB MicroSDHC.)

    Also, there are a bunch of web browsers to choose from on WM. The built in version of IE works with many flash web sites. So do other options like Opera Mobile. Also, there's the new player on the WM block, Skyfire. There is absolutely no flash video site I have ever been on that this browser can't play video for. Using Skyfire is very much like using a desktop browser.


    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    I'm not too quick to pull the "troll" trigger, but hparsons seems to have called it here. It was a foregone conclusion before the first post was submitted.
    I think the OP is simply someone who would like to get a Pre and was hoping perhaps they were missing something in their review of the product, that might convince them to buy. Calling the OP a troll alienates someone who only wants a webOS device, but simply has needs that prevent getting one that at this point. Palm DOES read these forums, so it's good that people post feedback about what they would like to see in future webOS devices.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    If you had a Treo Pro you would not have those complaints about the Treo. The Treo Pro does BT stereo and the WM version of Pandora works fine on it. Plenty of Treo Pro owners use the device as their in-car media player. And with the ability to use 16GB MicroSDHC, that's as much space as an iPhone 3Gs. Once 32GB MicroSDHC is available, a simple change of a card and the Treo Pro will hold a little more than the 32GB iPhone 3Gs, when you include the Treo Pro's internal storage on top of the MicroSDHC space.

    Things like video recording were available on WM Treos even before the Treo Pro. (So was 16GB and soon 32GB MicroSDHC.)

    Also, there are a bunch of web browsers to choose from on WM. The built in version of IE works with many flash web sites. So do other options like Opera Mobile. Also, there's the new player on the WM block, Skyfire. There is absolutely no flash video site I have ever been on that this browser can't play video for. Using Skyfire is very much like using a desktop browser.
    ...
    I really like the form factor of the Pro, but I do not like Windows Mobile. That one by itself is a deal killer for me.

    I know there's a lot of buzz about the Pixie, but I'm hoping that when the next gen of of the Pre comes out (not the stripped down version, but the "new improved" version) that it's on something similar to the Treo Pro form factor. I'm a little pulled though, because I like the current screen resolution, and I don't know how Palm would do that without a slider.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I think the OP is simply someone who would like to get a Pre and was hoping perhaps they were missing something in their review of the product, that might convince them to buy. Calling the OP a troll alienates someone who only wants a webOS device, but simply has needs that prevent getting one that at this point. Palm DOES read these forums, so it's good that people post feedback about what they would like to see in future webOS devices.
    I get the concept and agree with it, but you're not addressing the op's specific actions. That post doesn't have a tone suggesting or encouraging open-mindedness or dialogue or a genuine request for assistance. We'll have to disagree on this one.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    I get the concept and agree with it, but you're not addressing the op's specific actions. That post doesn't have a tone suggesting or encouraging open-mindedness or dialogue or a genuine request for assistance. We'll have to disagree on this one.
    I think the tone only reflects the OP's frustration. With wanting to try Palm's new OS, but Palm not yet delivering a product they can use.

    Palm said before the Pre release, that it was for a certain type of user. So many don't yet have a webOS device that suits them.

    Before the change in CEO, it was said that the Treo line would remain the line for users with needs not filled by the Pre. The Treo is really supposed to be for business users, but WM is so mature, that it can handle many pleasure apps too, like Kinoma. And anyone who has not used Kinoma on Windows Mobile has not really experienced KINOMA yet. With the change in CEO, I think the Treo line has seen its likely end, unless they make a webOS based version in the future. But the Treo Pro is the latest and best Treo there is.

    Palm made it clear the Pre can't do some things yet. Some people want to try the latest from Palm and are just frustrated in waiting. That does not make them a troll. People like the OP are some of Palm's most loyal customers. They don't even want to glance at a WM Treo. That's a Palm purist to the core.
  6. #46  
    Browsing desktop pages in a Treo Pro is a pain. I know because I have one. The square screen of Treos isn't friendly, sorry. That's my big complain about treos. just having a treo-esque keyboard with a big screen converts the Pre in a must have.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    Browsing desktop pages in a Treo Pro is a pain. I know because I have one. The square screen of Treos isn't friendly, sorry. That's my big complain about treos. just having a treo-esque keyboard with a big screen converts the Pre in a must have.
    Your square screen complaint is an opinion. The fact remains that you can browse desktop sites on windows mobile phones just like you are on the desktop. A few browsers to do this have been mentioned. Skyfire, opera, etc. The point still remains that the Pre cannot browse similar sites with its current browser. Treos can with added browsers regardless of how much of a pain it might be to some.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    ...WM is so mature, that it can handle many pleasure apps too, like Kinoma. And anyone who has not used Kinoma on Windows Mobile has not really experienced KINOMA yet.
    True. Kinoma Play is a next-generation social media browser built on a new platform three years in the making. So although it's a great media player if you choose just to use it for that, it does lots that you couldn't conceive of doing with previous-generation players like Kinoma Player 4 EX, Pocket Tunes, CorePlayer, etc.

    This 20 minute demo of Kinoma Play on a TG01 (be sure to watch in HD) is a good way to see me demonstrate some of what Kinoma Play's all about:

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma View Post
    True. Kinoma Play is a next-generation social media browser built on a new platform three years in the making. So although it's a great media player if you choose just to use it for that, it does lots that you couldn't conceive of doing with previous-generation players like Kinoma Player 4 EX, Pocket Tunes, CorePlayer, etc.

    This 20 minute demo of Kinoma Play on a TG01 (be sure to watch in HD) is a good way to see me demonstrate some of what Kinoma Play's all about:

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    I tried Kinoma when I had a Palm OS device and unistalled it. But when I tried Kinoma on WM, keeper!
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    I tried Kinoma when I had a Palm OS device and unistalled it. But when I tried Kinoma on WM, keeper!
    +1
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by bpdamas View Post
    ...
    The point still remains that the Pre cannot browse similar sites with its current browser.
    ...
    You lost me on this one. The only sites I have trouble with on the Pre are those that use Flash. Do you have some specifics?
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma View Post
    True. Kinoma Play is a next-generation social media browser built on a new platform three years in the making. So although it's a great media player if you choose just to use it for that, it does lots that you couldn't conceive of doing with previous-generation players like Kinoma Player 4 EX, Pocket Tunes, CorePlayer, etc.

    This 20 minute demo of Kinoma Play on a TG01 (be sure to watch in HD) is a good way to see me demonstrate some of what Kinoma Play's all about:

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    C'mon now, you skipped my question...

    Are we going to see Kinoma on the Pre?
  13. #53  
    As another long time Treo user, and a palm PDA user before that, I was really looking forward to the new "Palm" device and got one the first day. The Pre has many wonderful benefits, but is aimed much more at IPhone users rather than Blackberry users. I finally realized that the Treos have evolved into Blackberry's and the Pre is a social networking phone with a Palm name. As a business user, I finally and reluctantly said goodbye to Palm to get a Blackberry Bold. Perhaps in six months when the WebOS and apllications list evolve I will consider moving back to Palm, but for now the Pre is still too much of a beta for business users.
  14. #54  
    I stopped reading after a bit, it was getting a bit wordy. But coming from a 650p to a 700wx to a pre, there are a few things i really do miss.

    2 days with out charging with heavy use, and no big back. (thanks seido)

    sd cards. I have tons of video, and i would have a couple video sd cards, a music sd card and a work apps sd card. swap and go, the ones i wasn't using sat in my laptop bag.

    apps apps apps. I do miss actually having a selection of apps. I knew it was going to be a bit before they would be available, so i'm not complaining (that much) but i still miss them. I had my wm treo all done up with everything I could want. I know the pre will get there but i miss alot of the little fun things, and I miss RDP something awful as an IT administrator.

    The big things that got me were multi-tasking, I use it more than I thought.
    a decent screen!!! my god is the screen good.

    and a huge plus for my job, multiple exchange active sync connections. I can test new installations or test for problems with current EAS steups.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by bpdamas View Post
    The point still remains that the Pre cannot browse similar sites with its current browser.
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You lost me on this one. The only sites I have trouble with on the Pre are those that use Flash. Do you have some specifics?
    That was Bpdamas' point. Every Flash site.

    Sure it's been said webOS will get it, but that's like saying WM will get a device with the Pre form factor or something else. Today things are what they are and Pre can't do Flash.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    C'mon now, you skipped my question...

    Are we going to see Kinoma on the Pre?
    You'll find Charles at times won't answer a question. For his own reasons.

    I would not read anything into it. But for whatever reason, he's obviously staying mum on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by advocate2 View Post
    As another long time Treo user, and a palm PDA user before that, I was really looking forward to the new "Palm" device and got one the first day. The Pre has many wonderful benefits, but is aimed much more at IPhone users rather than Blackberry users. I finally realized that the Treos have evolved into Blackberry's and the Pre is a social networking phone with a Palm name. As a business user, I finally and reluctantly said goodbye to Palm to get a Blackberry Bold. Perhaps in six months when the WebOS and apllications list evolve I will consider moving back to Palm, but for now the Pre is still too much of a beta for business users.
    And the former CEO said pretty much what you experienced. Treo for those with more business needs, Pre for those who are a little more on the leisure end. The "fat middle" crowd as he used to put it, because they knew they could never break big into RIM's stronghold, the business sector.
  16. #56  
    Given the very pro Treo sentiment in this thread, one would think it belongs on the Treo forums. All I keep reading is how much better the Treo(or Treo pro)is and how Kinoma is the best thing since sliced bread. If the Pre was meant for a different kind of user like already mentioned, then why all the hostiliy and disappointment? Stick with what you got, get the Treo Pro or wait it out.

    The Pre is very new device and it will take time for it to mature.
    There is very little that can be done about it. There is no magic wand that will automatically make it like a Treo. Also, why do so many Treo users feel the need to contantly take pot shots at it? It's like me logging onto the Treo forums and taking pot shots at the 700p or not having a better screen or web browser.

    Another thing, since the Kinoma folks felt to need to chime in, at least let us know if something like this will be available for the Pre. Afterall, being Pre owners, we're a lot more interested in what's available (or in the pipeline)for us than the Treo.
  17. #57  
    For those who want a local syncing solution for the Pre should view this thread. forums.precentral.net/webos-synergy-synchronization/189079-sync-your-palm-pre-backup-option.html
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell View Post
    That was Bpdamas' point. Every Flash site.

    Sure it's been said webOS will get it, but that's like saying WM will get a device with the Pre form factor or something else. Today things are what they are and Pre can't do Flash.
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You lost me on this one. The only sites I have trouble with on the Pre are those that use Flash. Do you have some specifics?
    Darnell pretty much summed it up. Sorry if I wasn't completely clear. My post almost specifically pertains to sites with flash. I agree with you in that most sites I have no problem with on my Pre. My point was you can view flash sites on a desktop computer, on windows mobile devices with previously mentioned browsers, but not on the Pre. I can see why it was confusing since I didn't really specifically mention flash sites in my previous post. No worries.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by bpdamas View Post
    ...
    The point still remains that the Pre cannot browse similar sites with its current browser. Treos can with added browsers regardless of how much of a pain it might be to some.
    Quote Originally Posted by bpdamas View Post
    ...
    I can see why it was confusing since I didn't really specifically mention flash sites in my previous post. No worries.
    Your original quote talked about browsers, and implied that those browsers made them 100% compatible with desktop browsers (if I'm not mistaken, the Flash hack wasn't 100% compatible, and only worked with swf files created with older versions of Flash);, so yeah, was a bit confusing.

    In this case, I believe the Palm is going right direction (along with Adobe). Instead of trying to hobble together something to get them by, they are working wtih Adobe on the Open Screen Project. This will help standardize how Flash is implemented in multiple platforms, and as an added bonus for Pre users, will likely bring about standalone Flash programs. Looks to me like a match made in heaven for an OS such as WebOS.

    Ironically, if you're reading this on a Pre, you probably can't go to the link and read about it all - because the site's done in Flash. But here's the opening paragraph.
    Singular experience, multiple devices
    The Open Screen Project is an industry-wide initiative, led by Adobe and backed by other industry leaders who all share one clear vision: Enable consumers to engage with rich Internet experiences seamlessly across any device, anywhere.
    To keep this on topic with the general gist of the thread - this is another example new technology building its base. Yes, that means we have to wait a while (according to sources I've heard, Pre's support for Flash sould be out by the end of the year), but the wait brings new things that we likely wouldn't have seen on the old devices.

    I can understand why some folks don't want to be early adopters, but for me, it's worth it.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Your original quote talked about browsers, and implied that those browsers made them 100% compatible with desktop browsers (if I'm not mistaken, the Flash hack wasn't 100% compatible, and only worked with swf files created with older versions of Flash);, so yeah, was a bit confusing.
    Skyfire on WM works with all Flash sites that a desktop browser can work with. Even video sites using the lastest version of Flash.

    I guess you've never used Skyfire on WM?

    Again, all the talk about what is coming can be said for any platform. What matters (at least for me) is what one can do today.
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