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  1. #21  
    hparsons nailed it, it's pretty obvious the op is just trolling. Anyway I decided to look up the Treo 700p to see what this was all about and realized he can't be serious:

    -stylus?
    -Antiquated OS that looks like something from the early 90s
    -No wifi support?
    -128 mb internal memory with 2gb expansion (he said 4gigs)- so correct me if I'm wrong
    -crappy web browser
    -inferior screen
    -1.3 megapixel camera?

    Hotsync? While there might be some instances where this may make life easier, not many people need this anymore.

    Video camera. Ok so it can take video, but with such a low end camera, the videos would be poor quality anyway. However I will admit, it would be nice if the Pre had it or can get in the future.

    Bluetooth tethering. The Pre can tether via a hack so this isn't much of an advantage. Even if it's only by way of USB, it still achieves the same result.

    Voice Dail. This is nice to have, but I hardly ever used it on my other phones. Maybe it's important to others but I personally don't miss it. I think this will eventually make it's way on to the Pre either as an update or homebrew.

    Atari ST emulation? Woo hoo, I muuuust have that! Again not that important. Games are trickling to the Pre via the homebrews, and I'm sure emulators will follow as well. I don't see the big deal here.

    Datebook 6. Don't know much about this and its advantages over the Pre's calendar but I doubt this will be much of a deal breaker for anyone looking to jump ship.

    No wonder treo people are considering the Pre. Not that the Treo isn't a good smartphone. It's just old technology. Yeah I'm sure it works well for some but I'd rather browse the web and check email on my Pre than on a treo. And I think that's basically what it boils down to for many. The only advantage I see to the Treo is the multitude of apps but apps alone aren't the deal breaker as many of those apps will eventually make their way to the Pre.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    hparsons nailed it, it's pretty obvious the op is just trolling. Anyway I decided to look up the Treo 700p to see what this was all about and realized he can't be serious:
    We're talking phones, not religion or politics. For the record, I thought that Roland's original post was unnecessarily harsh but he has stuck around in the thread with specifics instead of name calling. So I'm satisfied that he's not a troll but a serious user who's very happy with what he has now but wants to plan ahead for a future upgrade in six months or so.

    -stylus?
    A stylus provides more precise control than a bare finger. This is useful for drawing apps and for selecting text to copy and paste.

    -Antiquated OS that looks like something from the early 90s
    This is the biggest problem with the old Treos and why I finally ditched my Treo 680. The OS simply wasn't robust enough for my needs anymore....

    -No wifi support?
    Meh, wifi is good for my home or office networks but most public or subscriber wifi networks want you to click through a login page and sometimes enter a password. It's enough of a hassle that I usually just use the EVDO connection on my Pre. So while wifi has always been touted as one of those must have features, in practice the implementation of wifi in many places can sometimes make it more trouble than it's worth.

    -128 mb internal memory with 2gb expansion (he said 4gigs)- so correct me if I'm wrong
    Sometimes Treos can handle cards with higher capacity than advertised and Dmitry Grinberg makes a very nice SDHC driver which allows them to handle even larger cards. So the SD card expansion is potentially an advantage if you are willing to buy a big SDHC card and buy Dmitry's driver.

    -crappy web browser
    -inferior screen
    -1.3 megapixel camera?
    These are pretty serious shortcomings for a modern smartphone which almost by themselves ruin the Treo for most users.

    Hotsync? While there might be some instances where this may make life easier, not many people need this anymore.
    Not everybody wants to put their data in the Cloud. For these people, a feature like Hotsync is invaluable.

    Voice Dail. This is nice to have, but I hardly ever used it on my other phones. Maybe it's important to others but I personally don't miss it. I think this will eventually make it's way on to the Pre either as an update or homebrew.
    My T-Mobile G1 had it and it was wildly inaccurate.

    Atari ST emulation? Woo hoo, I muuuust have that! Again not that important. Games are trickling to the Pre via the homebrews, and I'm sure emulators will follow as well. I don't see the big deal here.
    People lurve their old games. Don't knock emulators.

    Datebook 6. Don't know much about this and its advantages over the Pre's calendar but I doubt this will be much of a deal breaker for anyone looking to jump ship.
    Datebk in all of its various incarnations is so much better than the Pre built-in calendar that it's not even funny. The floating events alone (which incidentally don't work in the Classic emulator because it needs run constantly in the foreground for them to update) make it worth the price of admission. The only advantage to the Pre Calendar is its ability to subscribe and sync with multiple calendars. For some people this is more than enough but in every other respect Datebk stands head and shoulders above the Pre's calendar. I can totally see why someone would find the lack of it a deal breaker. It might have been a deal breaker for me if I hadn't previously jumped ship to T-Mobile G1 before moving to the Pre.

    No wonder treo people are considering the Pre. Not that the Treo isn't a good smartphone. It's just old technology. Yeah I'm sure it works well for some but I'd rather browse the web and check email on my Pre than on a treo. And I think that's basically what it boils down to for many. The only advantage I see to the Treo is the multitude of apps but apps alone aren't the deal breaker as many of those apps will eventually make their way to the Pre.
    Honestly, I think that a lot of what is holding back a lot of Treo users is Classic. While MotionApps has done an excellent job of creating an emulator for PalmOS apps, they still need to do more. Classic should support full screen mode and needs to improve its alarm and background handling so that things like Datebk's floating events will work.
    Last edited by DarthRepublican; 08/02/2009 at 10:24 AM. Reason: correcting some bad grammar and typos
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    hparsons nailed it, it's pretty obvious the op is just trolling. Anyway I decided to look up the Treo 700p to see what this was all about and realized he can't be serious:

    -stylus?
    -Antiquated OS that looks like something from the early 90s
    -No wifi support?
    -128 mb internal memory with 2gb expansion (he said 4gigs)- so correct me if I'm wrong
    -crappy web browser
    -inferior screen
    -1.3 megapixel camera?

    Hotsync? While there might be some instances where this may make life easier, not many people need this anymore.

    Video camera. Ok so it can take video, but with such a low end camera, the videos would be poor quality anyway. However I will admit, it would be nice if the Pre had it or can get in the future.

    Bluetooth tethering. The Pre can tether via a hack so this isn't much of an advantage. Even if it's only by way of USB, it still achieves the same result.

    Voice Dail. This is nice to have, but I hardly ever used it on my other phones. Maybe it's important to others but I personally don't miss it. I think this will eventually make it's way on to the Pre either as an update or homebrew.

    Atari ST emulation? Woo hoo, I muuuust have that! Again not that important. Games are trickling to the Pre via the homebrews, and I'm sure emulators will follow as well. I don't see the big deal here.

    Datebook 6. Don't know much about this and its advantages over the Pre's calendar but I doubt this will be much of a deal breaker for anyone looking to jump ship.

    No wonder treo people are considering the Pre. Not that the Treo isn't a good smartphone. It's just old technology. Yeah I'm sure it works well for some but I'd rather browse the web and check email on my Pre than on a treo. And I think that's basically what it boils down to for many. The only advantage I see to the Treo is the multitude of apps but apps alone aren't the deal breaker as many of those apps will eventually make their way to the Pre.
    1. The fact that you had to "look up" the Treo means you're criticising without ever having used one yourself. As for the "antiquated OS that looks like something from the early 80's", my original post stated that I'm using Teal OS which looks and feels so much like WebOS that Palm forced Teal to suppress it. Lucky I got my copy before they took it off the market.

    2. "Stylus?" If the question mark you appended is supposed to be some sort of implicit criticism, I'd suggest that you read the several posts from Pre users asking which aftermarket styli work well with the Pre. And the many posts lamenting the lack of precision when trying to use your fingers inside of Classic.

    3. "No Wi-Fi". So what? Why do you need Wi-Fi if you've got 3G?

    4. "2GB expansion - correct me if I'm wrong". Well we're both right. A 4GB card is supported but I believe it's treated like two separate 2GB partitions. That's never mattered to me. Never had a need to run anything that needed more than 2GB's at a time. And although running apps from the SD card is nice, for me even nicer is the ability to hold numerous movies and lengthy sound files on swappable cards. Something the Pre even with its 8 GB of internal, can not do.

    5. Crappy web browser. You got me there. Although the Treo does run Opera Mini which is somewhat better than Blazer.

    6. Inferior screen. Yes I agree (and already pointed this out myself in an earlier post.) Now let's compare keyboards. ;>

    7. "1.3 megapixel camera". Yeah yeah. Okay you win on the number of pixels. But I've read some criticism of the Pre's camera shortcomings too so I don't think anyone's buying the Pre because of its great camera.

    8. "Hotsync?" Again I'd suggest you read the more than a few posts from people here wishing the Pre had it. That includes the larger issue of the Pre's incomplete backup system. My 700p backs up EVERYTHING (thanks to "Backup Buddy" 3rd party software) - settings, contacts, memos - so if my phone crashes or needs to be wiped it's a very simple matter to get it back to exactly the state it was in before. Even nicer is the fact that it also backs up to the SD card, so I don't even need to be anywhere near a computer for an exact restore. Can you say the same thing about your PREcious?

    (Okay "PREcious" was a troll, but after being accused so many times, I might as well get some fun out of it.)
    Last edited by RolandStone; 08/02/2009 at 10:55 AM.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthRepublican View Post
    We're talking phones, not religion or politics. For the record, I thought that Roland's original post was unnecessarily harsh but he has stuck around in the thread with specifics instead of name calling. So I'm satisfied that he's not a troll but a serious user who's very happy with what he has now but wants to plan ahead for a future upgrade in six months or so.
    Well If that's the case knocking the Pre (in the manner he did) in the very first post isn't a good start. You can't blame someone for thinking he's just here to start drama.




    A stylus provides more precise control than a bare finger. This is useful for drawing apps and for selecting text to copy and paste.
    True but how many people use a smartphone to draw? And with practice a bare finger can become quite as accurate as a stylus for most tasks. I had a Tungsten for years and on many occasions, preferred to use my bare finger. Also OS design has a lot to do with how effective a bare finger can function. The Pre's implemenation of cut and paste is poor but on the Iphone it's very easy. Also the fact that the need for a stylus is hardly ever mentioned or talked about on the newer finger-only devices speaks volumes.

    Meh, wifi is good for my home or office networks but most public or subscriber wifi networks want you to click through a login page and sometimes enter a password. It's enough of a hassle that I usually just use the EVDO connection on my Pre. So while wifi has always been touted as one of those must have features, in practice the implementation of wifi in many places can sometimes make it more trouble than it's worth.
    In places where Wifi is free and available I use it for doing updates and for quicker browsing and viewing videos. I do agree it can be hassle to hook up to some networks but for me it's worth it. EVDO is adequate for the most part but it's still not on the same level for heavy data traffic.

    Sometimes Treos can handle cards with higher capacity than advertised and Dmitry Grinberg makes a very nice SDHC driver which allows them to handle even larger cards. So the SD card expansion is potentially an advantage if you are willing to buy a big SDHC card and buy Dmitry's driver.
    I stand corrected. Although for a treo user it might mean having to swap back and forth depending on what they're doing. Still, it's nice to be able to add storage as needed. Hopefully PreV2 will have an expansion slot.




    Not everybody wants to put their data in the Cloud. For these people, a feature like Hotsync is invaluable.
    Still, majority rules here. Although I'm sure something can be cooked up in the homebrew section to handle this for the time being.

    People lurve their old games. Don't knock emulators.
    Maybe I should've been a little clearer, but I'm not knocking emulators at all. I used mame to play all my old 2600 games on my PC. Just don't see it as a must-have on a smartphone.

    Datebk in all of its various incarnations is so much better than the Pre built-in calendar that it's not even funny. The floating events alone (which incidentally don't work in the Classic emulator because it needs run constantly in the foreground for them to update) make it worth the price of admission. The only advantage to the Pre Calendar is its ability to subscribe and sync with multiple calendars. For some people this is more than enough but in every other respect Datebk stands head and shoulders above the Pre's calendar. I can totally see why someone would find the lack of it a deal breaker. It might have been a deal breaker for me if I hadn't previously jumped ship to T-Mobile G1 before moving to the Pre.
    Well, with my limited knowledge if datebook 6's features, I can't argue here.
    All I can say is the Pre's calendaring abilities is adequate for me.
  5. #25  
    You can no longer post anything here that isn't a love song for the Pre without the 12 year olds who define themselves by their phone foaming at the mouth. I mostly ignore them and concentrate on the posts that might actually have useful content.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by RolandStone View Post
    1. The fact that you had to "look up" the Treo means you're criticising without ever having used one yourself. As for the "antiquated OS that looks like something from the early 80's", my original post stated that I'm using Teal OS which looks and feels so much like WebOS that Palm forced Teal to suppress it. Lucky I got my copy before they took it off the market.
    I'm more familiar with the treo 650 than 700p. And how many Treo users use Teal?

    2. "Stylus?" If the question mark you appended is supposed to be some sort of implicit criticism, I'd suggest that you read the several posts from Pre users asking which aftermarket styli work well with the Pre. And the many posts lamenting the lack of precision when trying to use your fingers inside of Classic.

    Well I have yet to see one single post (on this forum or everythingpre) about someone asking about a stylus. But you could be right, maybe I missed it.
    Anyway, classic is just a bandaid IMO. WebOS is what matters. If you want classic so badly stick with the Treo.



    "No Wi-Fi". So what? Why do you need Wi-Fi if you've got 3G?
    3g is quick but it's not in same leaque as WIFI. Maybe 4g will be.

    4. "2GB expansion - correct me if I'm wrong". Well we're both right. A 4GB card is supported but I believe it's treated like two separate 2GB partitions. That's never mattered to me. Never had a need to run anything that needed more than 2GB's at a time. And although running apps from the SD card is nice, for me even nicer is the ability to hold numerous movies and lengthy sound files on swappable cards. Something the Pre even with its 8 GB of internal, can not do.
    Having to swap out a card everytime I want to see a video or listen to some music isn't exactly convenient. I agree the Pre can't do that but in many instances, I won't need it to. It can hold a good bit of my favorite musc, documents and videos as is. Now I do agree having an expansion slot is great, but in the Treo's case, given the limitations, it's really not an advantage(IMO).



    . Inferior screen. Yes I agree (and already pointed this out myself in an earlier post.) Now let's compare keyboards. ;>
    I get used to keyboards quickly and the Pre is no different. At first it seemed cramped but after weeks of using it, I'm right at home. Same when I had the Iphone. Everybody complained about the touch keyboard and I had no issues with it after a while.


    7. "1.3 megapixel camera". Yeah yeah. Okay you win on the number of pixels. But I've read some criticism of the Pre's camera shortcomings too so I don't think anyone's buying the Pre because of its great camera.
    I agree, the Pre is about more than just the camera, but it is a nice camera
    and I'm much more inclined to use it knowing the pic won't look like an bad oil painting.
    8. "Hotsync?" Again I'd suggest you read the more than a few posts from people here wishing the Pre had it. That includes the larger issue of the Pre's incomplete backup system. My 700p backs up EVERYTHING (thanks to "Backup Buddy" 3rd party software) - settings, contacts, memos - so if my phone crashes or needs to be wiped it's a very simple matter to get it back to exactly the state it was in before. Even nicer is the fact that it also backs up to the SD card, so I don't even need to be anywhere near a computer for an exact restore. Can you say the same thing about your PREcious?

    (Okay "PREcious" was a troll, but after being accused so many times, I might as well get some fun out of it.)
    Just like you use a third party app to back everything up, the Pre will get it's share. Yes the included backup isn't the best, but it's nothing that can't be fixed. As for hotsync, I think it's a case of people needing to let go of their old habits. I had it, used it, but don't miss it. There are other ways around it.
  7. #27  
    Dude! Buy the damn thing - no one can REALLY tell you how it'll be for YOU! You have 30 days! - Seems to me you're also concerned about Sprint maybe more than the Pre (I'm not sure just seems maybe true). I had the 755p AND let's not forget all the problems the Treo line has - The Pre is a whole new world - I love it. But you need to give a whirl for yourself maybe you can borrow someones for a few hours??
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    You can no longer post anything here that isn't a love song for the Pre without the 12 year olds who define themselves by their phone foaming at the mouth. I mostly ignore them and concentrate on the posts that might actually have useful content.
    ???

    This forum is filled with nothing but complaints and other smartphone users using every opportunity to bash the Pre. It should be renamed BashPreCentral.net.
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by landford View Post
    Dude! Buy the damn thing - no one can REALLY tell you how it'll be for YOU! You have 30 days! - Seems to me you're also concerned about Sprint maybe more than the Pre (I'm not sure just seems maybe true). I had the 755p AND let's not forget all the problems the Treo line has - The Pre is a whole new world - I love it. But you need to give a whirl for yourself maybe you can borrow someones for a few hours??
    One of my officemates has a Pre. I've had plenty of time to play with it. And yes I do remember all the complaints about the Treo and how long it took to get OS updates. Hopefully Palm will be quicker in addressing the Pre's shortcomings.

    I would LOVE to ditch my Treo - for something BETTER. I'm just pointing out a number of features which I feel are important where the Pre comes up short compared to the Treo. I've already decided not to ditch Verizon for Sprint. So I won't be getting a new phone until early 2010. Unfortunately there's no sign of a Pre2 on the horizon. Come January, with luck, I'll have a choice of Pre, Pixie, Hero or Iphone. Let's hope that by then the Pre will have video recording, Kinoma, deeper access for power developers, and lots of apps to make my decision easier.
  10. #30  
    Roland, as a fairly long-time Palm user (m100, Clie, 650, Centro) I feel your pain. I jumped and bought the Pre on launch day, kept it about 10 days and returned it. I will confess that although I got my contacts over to the Pre and eventually over to gmail, I wasn't comfortable with the whole "cloud" thing as my only "syncing" option.

    I can also add to your list of things the Pre can't do "out of the box". (It's amazing to me that so many people get on these forums and advise people to implement hacks and OS work-arounds. Doesn't that void warranties folks?) With my Centro I can still (even with it's "outdated OS"):

    - watch movies (no detailed conversion Process)
    - stream internet and am/fm radio
    - change notification sounds
    - use an 8gb memory card (so with built-in memory it's actually more than the Pre and expandable, if necessary)
    - tether using PDANet
    - and have access to probably over 10,000 PalmOS apps (the original, "there's an app for that").

    Like you, I have a copy of the awesome TealOS Pre launcher. There is no doubt as to why Palm had these folks stop producing this app. We now have the "new" look that everyone loves combined with the "old" programs Palm followers love - the best of both worlds. I, like you, fawn over the Pre but when I use my Centro, and it just does everything I need it to do flawlessly, I realize I can wait on the Pre.

    Stick with your 700P and don't feel bad. It will be at least another 6 months before the Pre will be glitch-free and able to really hold it's own against BB and the I-phone.

    And no, I'm not a troll.
  11. Crimson's Avatar
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    #31  
    If web browsing is at all important to you, the Pre wins hands down.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by pgvelez View Post
    ...
    (It's amazing to me that so many people get on these forums and advise people to implement hacks and OS work-arounds. Doesn't that void warranties folks?)
    ...
    You really find that "amazing"? TreoCentral is the forum that had tons of information about how to hack the ROMS on the Treos. Yes, that would have voided one's warranty, though I never heard of it actually happening. On the other hand, the OS hacks have very little chance of voiding any warranty, since the WebOS Doctor returns all of the OS software to its original state. The OS hacks are software changes, the openess of the Pre over the Treo is one of the unexpected surprises for me.

    Side Note: I think I'm ready to starta fund to try to convince Shadowmite to get a Pre...

    Quote Originally Posted by pgvelez View Post
    ...
    Stick with your 700P and don't feel bad. It will be at least another 6 months before the Pre will be glitch-free and able to really hold it's own against BB and the I-phone.
    ...
    Much of the rest of your post I agree with (with some exceptions, of course); however this one is worth noting.

    I don't believe for an instant that the Pre will be "glitch free" in 6 months. I don't think it will ever be "glitch free". The OS on the Centro was over 12 years old, and it wasn't "glitch free"; however, the attention the Pre is getting from Palm on upgrades gives me a lot more hope than I had for my ill-fated Centro.

    And yes, I had one. I actually had three. After the third one bit the dust, I took it back and traded it in to go back to a 755p.

    And didn't start a thread about it on TreoCentral!
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by RolandStone View Post
    I haven't heard of many WM fans! What I've heard has been negative enough to keep me from investigating deeper. I wonder how long it will be, if ever, before Palm revives the Treo form factor but with WebOS? THAT would certainly get my attention!
    I think it depends where you look. Plenty of people have moved to WM. I used to be all about Palm OS too. I can't speak for WebOS, but I can say going from Palm OS to WM has more benefits than drawbacks.

    If you want to be able to do all that you do now with a newer device, the Treo Pro would be a suitable move. It can do all you do on your 700p and much more. It can multi-task like Pre and can hold up to 16GB via MicroSDHC, soon 32GB once those cards are available.

    Put your list over in the Treo Pro forum and see how many people detail how the Treo Pro can do it all . Plenty of them are former Palm OS based Treo owners.

    Sure, if a WebOS device with the Treo forum factor is made, that would be interesting. But it would also be interesting to see if it can come close to meeting the other items in your list .
  14. #34  
    A fellow Pre user and former Treo user coworker of mine made this comparison...

    "Isn't Pre vs. Treo a lot like toilet paper vs. hand? It's all about the user interface."
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by RolandStone View Post
    ...
    Come January, with luck, I'll have a choice of Pre, Pixie, Hero or Iphone. Let's hope that by then the Pre will have video recording, Kinoma, deeper access for power developers, and lots of apps to make my decision easier.
    That's a much smaller, and more reasonable, list than your original. I think you may be setting yourself up for disappointment though, when hoping for a particular brand name software (Kinoma in this case).

    For instance, I expect we'll have more powerful PIM capabilities. I'd love to see Datebk, but I don't know if that's going to happen. However, the only reason I specify Datebk is because Pimlico's products have been great in the past, and consistently upgraded. If someone comes up with something as good or better, I'm sure it'll go well.

    Same issue with Kinoma. I'm not sure if the ultimate video player would be that name brand, someone else, or the current built-in video player on the Pre. Frankly, I never cared for the Kinoma player on my Treo. It seemed very flakey to me in execution. Of course, the big advantage of Kinoma is that it plays so many different formats, and the Pre's built in player plays MP4 format. This is not some weird hacked up format, but is a standard, albeit a fairly new standard.

    Given the limited storage of the Pre, it may be that MP4 becomes the standard for the device, or someone will come up with a multi-format player. If so, I'm hoping for a better version on te pre than what we saw on the Treo.

    As for the rest - Palm has already given deeper access to select developers, and there's no reason to believe that won't be phased in for more developers just as the WebOS SDK was. The other things on the list above - video & apps, I believe will be here in the time frame you're talking about - just my belief though.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Frankly, I never cared for the Kinoma player on my Treo. It seemed very flakey to me in execution.
    Based on our support requests, I can say with some confidence that Kinoma Player 4 EX was among the most stable software on your device.

    Sadly, such a rudimentary OS means that any software on the device can hurt your overall reliability. That's a hassle for our customers, and since most of the problems we help our Palm OS customers with aren't actually caused by Kinoma Player 4 EX, it's a regrettable expense for us. Still, we're known for our support and do our best to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Of course, the big advantage of Kinoma is that it plays so many different formats, and the Pre's built in player plays MP4 format. This is not some weird hacked up format, but is a standard, albeit a fairly new standard.
    It's actually about 8 years old. Palm OS phones were the first smartphones to play MPEG-4, thanks to Kinoma software.

    (Fun fact: The founders of Kinoma helped invent parts of MPEG-4 while at Apple. For example, the MPEG-4 file format is essentially the QuickTime Movie container file format.)

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma View Post
    Based on our support requests, I can say with some confidence that Kinoma Player 4 EX was among the most stable software on your device.

    Sadly, such a rudimentary OS means that any software on the device can hurt your overall reliability...
    ...
    Good to see that you folks are here. I do want to clarify, my issue wasn't with Kinoma, but with Kinoma on my Treo. As you said it was a rudimentary OS, and it was old. I never enjoyed the "viewing experience", but the program did work. I've never used Kinoma on any other OS or device (I really don't watch videos much on my computer), so the Treo was my only experience with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles@Kinoma View Post
    ...
    It's actually about 8 years old. Palm OS phones were the first smartphones to play MPEG-4, thanks to Kinoma software.
    ...
    Didn't realize it was that old, but I DID realize that Kinoma played them on the Treo. I spent some time reducing a few DVD's to MP4 format, and just never got things to work quite right. The experience left me with the attitude of "Yeah, nice novelty, but not something I would really use..."

    Which I guess brings me full circle back to the OP's original thoughts (and one of them he could cross off his list):

    Will we see a Kinoma player for the Pre?
  18. #38  
    Kinoma FreePlay comes with the CDMA Treo Pro. (Talk about "Treo" needs to be distinguished here. The Treo Pro is WM based, while some other talk about "Treo" in this thread is regarding Palm OS based Treos.)

    And the "viewing experience" with Kinoma on WM is pretty awesome.
  19. #39  
    FWIW, in the interest of the Treo vs Pre question, I was a 755p user, and got the Pre on launch. For a few days, I was jonesing, and thinking about switching back. But the Pre has grown on me, and I'm very pleased now. It's a much better experience if you're able to install the homebrew apps that are available. Tethering, some games, some other good utilities, etc.

    The thing I was most worried about when going to the Pre was the keyboard. I was very happy with the 755p keyboard. It felt great to me. It was the major reason I resisted going to the iPhone. At first, I felt the keyboard on the Pre was difficult to use, but I quickly adapted, and now it feels better to me than the 755p keyboard. It feels more refined somehow. And when I hold the 755p keyboard up to the Pre keyboard, they look like they're pretty much the same size to me.

    There are still some things that I could do with the 755p that I can't yet do on the Pre (copy and paste from webpages, video recording), but what I can do is done so much better that I'm willing to part with those capabilities temporarily. There are fewer bugs on the Pre than on the 755p absolutely. But the bugs are different, so you'll notice them, whereas you've learned to work around the PalmOS bugs by now. All devices have bugs, and this would be true of any new platform you moved to, even the ones that are mature.

    I'll also say that something I never used my Treo for (because it was somewhat impractical) is music. Yeah, I could have loaded music on the cards and played it, but you need the adapter to use real headphones or an auxiliary jack. But the Pre has excellent sound quality, a 3.5mm jack, and enough storage (for me) to make music on the Pre a practical and enjoyable thing. I've dispensed with my Nano.

    So yeah, I'm feeling like the switch to the Pre was a good decision, and I'd encourage anyone who spends a lot of time web browsing on their phone to make the switch. I'm sure that by the time the Pre is available on Verizon, there will be video recording, Flash, all manner of apps, OBEX, and pretty much everything else you want.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    ...
    I'll also say that something I never used my Treo for (because it was somewhat impractical) is music. Yeah, I could have loaded music on the cards and played it, but you need the adapter to use real headphones or an auxiliary jack. But the Pre has excellent sound quality, a 3.5mm jack, and enough storage (for me) to make music on the Pre a practical and enjoyable thing. I've dispensed with my Nano.
    ...
    There are actually two things I do a lot on my Pre, and seldom did on my Treo, though it was able.

    1. Music as you said, but not for the same reason. I hated the fact that I couldn't use a stereo BT for sound, but the bigger issue was moving the files around. I had never used Pandora before my Pre, and that one program is enough to make me use my phone for music. Nothing did that for me on the Treo.
    2. Web Browsing I used the Treo for web browsing only when absolutely necessary. It was too slow, and too "different" from the web sites that weren't formatted for it. I find myself using my laptop at home about 40% less than I used to.
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