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  1. caj27's Avatar
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    #61  
    The naivety expressed in this thread is pretty astounding. Quit being so sensitive. I get it--in junior high you got pelted with dodgeballs on a regular basis. Get over it.
  2. DHart's Avatar
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    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by NDPTAL85 View Post
    Apple makes products for 'the rest of us'. That explicitly excludes the vast majority of folks who register for tech site forums (like this one), dabble with Linux to any extent and care anything at all over whether their music files are DRM free or not. Most people don't even know what Linux and DRM are to begin with.

    So if you were running a company which customer base would you focus on? The small number of militant geeks or the general public which outnumbers them by several orders of magnitude?
    Just listen to yourself. You have drunk the Apple kool-aid. "Apple makes products for 'the rest of us'? This is typical Apple "root for the underdog" marketing.

    Apple would certainly attempt to apply the same anti-competitive practices it is exhibiting in the cell phone market in the PC market IF IT COULD. The fact is it can't, so it resorts to "I'm the underdog root for me" and "Choose us because we are a prestige buy and you will appear superior to others for having done so".
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Wow, I started to respond to SharonW's post, and thought "naw, way too 'off-topic'", but then saw this and the memories came flooding back, so figured I'd have to now.

    I used to be part owner of a computer store in the DFW area that specialized in the Atari computers (we sold PC clones as well, had to survive somehow). I had worked at Federated in a few of the stores and eventually their corporate offices. Partnered up with another employee from Federated when they went under, and we brought in a third guy that took care of repairs. Megabyte Computers in Hurst. Those were the days...
    Good ol' Fred Rated What was odd about the store I got my 800XL from was that there were none on display -- I had to point out at a box up in topstock to get one. Pimped it out later with a RAMdisk and TurboBASIC, eventually opened up a 1200-baud BBS using the Carina software.

    It died soon after, victim of a lightning strike The mushy-keyed XE that replaced it just wasn't the same.

    Sorry for straying even further off-topic
  4. Rhody's Avatar
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    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I didn't mean "win" as in beat someone else, but "win" as in do something that has more positives for them than negatives. I have no doubt that any action Apple took (or any deliberate inaction) was meant to "win" in that connotation.

    I didn't mean to imply that Apple was trying to "bait" Palm (not even sure how you came to that conclusion, but regardless, it wasn't what I meant). Again, the "win" wasn't meant in a competitive sense, but a "more good than bad" sense.



    I don't know that I agree with the last part. I think no response, or even a "Fine, if they want to hook up their phone to buy our songs, that's great" would have been better than what they did.

    The first statement though, I know that I totally disagree with. Apple rewriting one the software that handles one of their primary business models to close this particular issue, especially in light of the simmering competition between the two companies, definitely makes it at least appear that they view Palm as a potential big competitor in this area.
    I agree with what you have said. The only thing I have to add is that this has to do with more than just Palm. Apple is saying that NO non-Apple devices are allowed. That is a shot across the bow to any company that is thinking of copying what Palm did. It is also an elitist, anti-competitive stance that will hurt them in the end.
  5. Adjei's Avatar
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    #65  
    Yeah Apple closes a loophole in iTunes which Palm used as a hack for the Pre to sync with iTunes and they are the bad guys. Heck they even advertised this hack as a feature of their phone. Palm didn't develop this for the good of the consumer, please. They have been the first company to use this hack, most companies do it the proper way which is develop their own syncing software to sync with iTunes. Palm instead choose to be lazy and instead cop sympathy points from te gullible press and gullible buyers we find in this thread. Why didn't the old Palm phones like the Centro and Treo sync directly in this manner? Why did Palm all of a sudden decide to advertise this feature now after releasing the Pre?

    Since the Pre was released, they have played on the notion of ex Apple employees who have created a product to fight on the big bully in Apple and people have ate it up. It's even more evident on this forum with the Apple and iPhone hate, the iPhone is probably talked about more on this forum than the Pre itself. Palm knew they were using a hack. They were using the iPods USB ID to identify the Pre as an iPod which goes against the rules set by the USB group. I'm sure the USB group would like a word with them. They still did it anyways because they knew Apple would react by closing the loophole. Apple did and now we have everybody going on about Apple being a big bulky because they had the audacity to close a security loophole in their software. Why the heck should Apple let the Pre sync with iTunes? Palm should get of their lazy behinds and develop a proper syncing solution instead of looking fo cheap sympathy points. Does Microsoft allow iPods to sync with Zune software, why the heck should Apple allow anybody especially someone who is their competitor and provoking them to sync with their software they created. Apple isn't stopping you from purchasing songs from iTunes and drag and dropout them into the Pre. They just don't want you to sync with iTunes. That is a feature for their iPods and iPhones just like Microsoft only allows Zunes to sync with the Zune desktop to sync with iPods and Pres. Since DRM was drippd from iTunes, all songs can be put on any device. As for the rest of the Apple history lessons, Apple lost directio just like any other company does, thy fell but wen to work and develop compelling solutions which is why they are relevant. The same thing with Palm, they used to be a premier company, lost focus but have now seem to have picked themselves up. Good for them. These companies are all the same, out to make the most bucks they can fromyou, they are not you friend. Palm doesn't care about you, just like Apple doesn't. They just want your money and will do whatever they can to get it. Hating on companies is getting old, unless you have some financial incentive to do it, I don't see why people do it.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    It's even more evident on this forum with the Apple and iPhone hate, the iPhone is probably talked about more on this forum than the Pre itself.
    Get is straight fanboi: most talk of the iPhone on this forum is initiated by whiny little fanbois -- not unlike yourself. Funny though, I don't see many of us (if any) who frequent this forum going OUT OF OUR WAY, as you have, to visit the iPhone forums to spew our "Apple and iPhone hate."

    kthxcultrbi
    "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." ~ Samuel Beckett
  7. DSPKweb's Avatar
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    #67  
    Iphone, Smiphone.
    Sanyo SCP 4500 > Samsung SCH 1900 > Sanyo SCP 5000 > Treo 755p > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  8. #68  
    I have no problem with what Apple is doing not because I hate itunes(i do) but because they developed itunes and if they want to control what devices have access to its functions, then all the power to them. Yes as consumers you can choose to not give them your business which I also have no problem with. Unfortunately your consumer vote will will make no difference to Apple since they don't need you anyways. They are selling millions and millions of iphones and ipods as opposed to hundreds of thousands of Pres. You gotta figure there are probably plenty of Pre customers who already have an ipod and/or an iphone too so take at least a hundred thousand Pre customers off the list. Add to that the 8 gigs of memory which makes the Pre a great machine for limited playlists but not so great if you want to take a huge chunk of your music collection with you anywhere. I think Apple makes great products( I only own a 5gen ipod and an old school imac) that are very consumer friendly and powerful.

    Their "closed" business model has worked out great for them especially when considering that Microsoft seems to have fallen asleep over the past decade except with the Xbox. I can't think of anything MS have put out in recent years that has generated any type of buzz like Apple has with its consumer oriented gadgets. Granted that isn't MS's business model. They make their money on Office and their integration in the business world.

    Apple was the laughing stock of the computer world years ago and rebounded to have a reputation of putting out well made, easy to use computers and other digital devices for the consumer. MS put out Vista. I hope Palm can recreate the type of success Apple has had since the late 90's. Without Apple, Palm probably would never had tried to make Web OS. I know I sound like an Apple fanboy(i'm not). I have always hated how Apple seems to think it knows whats right for you even if you don't agree although I think they make great computers. I just think people are overreacting with anger at Apple for protecting its own developments. We have other options besides itunes and itunes can still be an option if you want(don't upgrade). The saddest thing to me is not what Apple did but how blinded people are to the fact that itunes is not a great program for organizing your music and that there have been other options out there for putting your music on your ipod. I'm glad the Pre has been cut off from a program that is below it in class and quality(minus the hardware which itunes doesn't have to worry about)
  9. Adjei's Avatar
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by wordweaver View Post
    Get is straight fanboi: most talk of the iPhone on this forum is initiated by whiny little fanbois -- not unlike yourself. Funny though, I don't see many of us (if any) who frequent this forum going OUT OF OUR WAY, as you have, to visit the iPhone forums to spew our "Apple and iPhone hate."

    kthxcultrbi
    And you get it through your thick head FANBOY, get over your iPhone obsession and talk about the Pre instead of bashing the iPhone that you do all day, it ain't that serious.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    ...
    They were using the iPods USB ID to identify the Pre as an iPod which goes against the rules set by the USB group. I'm sure the USB group would like a word with them.
    ...
    That information is incorrect. My Pre is not identified by my computer as an iPod. I suspect you don't have a Pre, or you would know this. Regardless, it's incorrect information. The the Pre does something to identify itself to the iTunes software as an iPod, but it's not the USB ID.

    Rant away on what Palm does, but spreading false information doesn't help anyone.
  11. #71  
    Just to add a little to the above statement, this is from the Pre Developer's Wiki, indicating how the USB port identifies itself.:
    Bus 002 Device 003: ID 0830:0101 Palm, Inc.
    Device Descriptor:
    bLength 18
    bDescriptorType 1
    bcdUSB 2.00
    bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level)
    bDeviceSubClass 0
    bDeviceProtocol 0
    bMaxPacketSize0 64
    idVendor 0x0830 Palm, Inc.
    idProduct 0x0101
    bcdDevice 2.16
    iManufacturer 1 Palm Inc.
    iProduct 2 Pre
    ...
    As I said, nothing wrong with expressing opinions, but spreading false information does no good.
  12. Adjei's Avatar
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    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    That information is incorrect. My Pre is not identified by my computer as an iPod. I suspect you don't have a Pre, or you would know this. Regardless, it's incorrect information. The the Pre does something to identify itself to the iTunes software as an iPod, but it's not the USB ID.

    Rant away on what Palm does, but spreading false information doesn't help anyone.
    It does identify as an iPod when you plug it into iTunes, how the heck do you think the Pre is able to sync with iTunes, have you used a Pre with iTunes before, I think you have not.
  13. RonWood's Avatar
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    That information is incorrect. My Pre is not identified by my computer as an iPod. I suspect you don't have a Pre, or you would know this. Regardless, it's incorrect information. The the Pre does something to identify itself to the iTunes software as an iPod, but it's not the USB ID.

    Rant away on what Palm does, but spreading false information doesn't help anyone.
    When in "media sync" mode- the Palm Pre shows up as Apple iPod USB Device under storage devices in device manager.

    When in "usb drive" mode- the Palm Pre shows up as a Palm Pre.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by RonWood View Post
    When in "media sync" mode- the Palm Pre shows up as Apple iPod USB Device under storage devices in device manager.

    When in "usb drive" mode- the Palm Pre shows up as a Palm Pre.
    OK, I have to retract what I said. I'm no longer sure that the Pre is not falsely identifying itself using the USB ID. I still don't know that to be true, but it's possible that selecting Media Sync mode is changing the USB ID internally.

    That said, I still think it's important for anyone to be able to back up the information technically before making these types of claims.
  15. #75  
    As much as I don't like how Apple does a walled garden approach, it's what you'd expect from a company headed by Steve Jobs.

    Say, would you expect Sony Sonicstage to sync with iPods, Zune desktop syncing with Creative Nomads, or even Palm desktop syncing with Windows Mobile devices? It sucks from a consumer perspective, but that's how business run. That's where 3rd party free resolutions come in, like Songbird or Doubletwist.

    Business always say they are here to serve the customer, yet they are really for your money, that's just how they survive.

    Disclaimer: I do use a Mac, and I took the easiest solution. I kept my iTunes at ver. 7.2, right, not even 8.0. Why upgrade when all the updates were just to provide drivers and support for a phone I don't have and never wanted? Save some harddrive space
    In that regards, it's quite nice that Apple didn't do forced upgrades with iTunes as Palm does with webOS... I still miss that email loophole of 1.03, it's way easier to install apps as long as you make sure you are not installing malware.
  16. #76  
    @Adjei
    Do us all a favor and get the eff outta here!!
  17. Adjei's Avatar
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    #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by turb0rexx View Post
    @Adjei
    Do us all a favor and get the eff outta here!!
    It's a free world fanboy!
  18. #78  
    "Pissing off Palm Pre Owners"
    Apple's Response
    Er um There's an app for that.
    It's not the life you lead but
    the style in which you live it.
  19. #79  
    Apple is poopy..... Nuff said
  20. zacarias's Avatar
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    #80  
    To be completely honest, OP, I can almost respect the business that Steve Jobs is running. Some would see it as almost an evil corporation, but if you think about it, it makes perfect sense. They've built brand loyalty and made it hip and cool, and turned their brand into a lifestyle. I have to respect that.

    Apple makes sure you use it's products, and in doing so, you feel cool about it, and about yourself. They single handedly make markets "Apple vs. The other guy". And mind you, I am not a fanboy, but as an aspiring entrepreneur, I have to say that Apple is a great company to aspire to be like.

    That said, as Apple increases it's market share, I'm sure it will have to open it's company up a little more, or be faced with anti-trust lawsuits.
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