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  1. stubbs's Avatar
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    #21  
    I still don't see how Apple closing off iTunes syncing has much to do with your OS choice. I'm a Mac user and love OS X, but I also use Linux on a regular basis. However, any iTunes user, be it on Windows or not, will have the same problems. Your OS choice shouldn't be based on that. I wish they hadn't done it, but let's be honest, it's a money making corporation. They don't exist to make peace with the world, they just want money, and they're going to do whatever they think will help them in that quest. Normal business.
    My $.02
  2. urkel's Avatar
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    #22  
    Brand loyalty is stupid. Whether it's Palm, Microsoft, Frigidaire, Honda or Apple then the product you purchase should be based on what it does, not who makes it.

    For me then I've got both Macs/Windows, PS3/Wii and a Pre/iPhone (apps only). Until one of these companies starts paying me to use their products then I have no attachment to anything.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    Brand loyalty is stupid. Whether it's Palm, Microsoft, Frigidaire, Honda or Apple then the product you purchase should be based on what it does, not who makes it.

    For me then I've got both Macs/Windows, PS3/Wii and a Pre/iPhone (apps only). Until one of these companies starts paying me to use their products then I have no attachment to anything.
    Word.
  4. #24  
    I remember almost getting into Macs back during the days of the PowerPC clones, then I saw Apple go insane. I almost go into Macs when when Apple went Intel, then I saw how hard they fight to keep their OS off of standard x86 hardware.

    I avoided iTunes b/c I didn't trust them to pull the rug out from under me. I've occassionally toyed with the idea of buying the DRM-free MP3s, now that they carry them, but I kept thinking about a former colleague that due to a series of bad travel experiences trashed multiple laptops and used up his entire iTunes migration allotment in the span of a year. (One died when a cargo carrier drove over his luggage, the 2nd laptop died when someone else's hard suitcase dropped off the check-bags counter onto his laptop bag, and the third when his dog ran laps around the table and pulled the laptop to the ground)

    I never considered the Pre's iTunes compatibility to be long for the world. It was likely, to be honest, nothing more than a minor marketing ploy to show that Apple doesn't play nicely.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    Brand loyalty is stupid. Whether it's Palm, Microsoft, Frigidaire, Honda or Apple then the product you purchase should be based on what it does, not who makes it.

    For me then I've got both Macs/Windows, PS3/Wii and a Pre/iPhone (apps only). Until one of these companies starts paying me to use their products then I have no attachment to anything.
    same

    my loyalty lyes with who has the best product

    ...and nissan
  6. #26  
    This is what I posted on Apple's discussion board before they promptly pulled it:

    I'm VERY disappointed in Apple for breaking this functionality. There was no reason to break this compatibility besides just being protectionist. Apple didn't have to support the Pre or even try to avoid breaking the sync but they didn't have to go out of their way to sabotage a set of users.

    It is possible to be an iTunes customer and NOT use an iPod or iPhone.

    Way to go Apple. Thanks for being more and more like Microsoft every day. Makes me rethink my loyalty and defense of Apple.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    The amazing thing to me is that Apple felt threatened enough by the Pre's syncing with iTunes to actually invest money in stopping it. I doubt it cost a lot, but software that works costs money. They've added an entirely new feature to their software to block the Pre (and others who would try to interface the same way), and had to test it to make sure it does what they intended and doesn't interfere with anything else.

    Certainly Apple can't view the Pre as a threat by itself, can it? Even the most successful projections of Pre sales are but a sliver of the market the iPhone has garnered. I think Apple felt threatened by the hundreds of other device makers who they fear would try the same thing. That's the only reasonable conclusion. And that means that they don't think their iPod/iPhone hardware is great enough to stand in the face of their competitors without the ecosystem lock-in.

    It's one thing if they lock you into their ecosystem by guaranteeing that everything will work harmoniously with everything else. That's beneficial to consumers. It's another thing if they go out of their way to keep others out of their ecosystem. That is removing consumer choice, and in the end it will bite them--maybe not right now, but eventually.
    I don't think the issue is the Pre, I think its the new CEO of Palm, and the people who made the Pre and webOS a reality.
  8. DHart's Avatar
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by sacherjj View Post
    No OS is bullet proof, but OS/X and Linux are much harder to do real damage to than something like WinXP or Vista with security off.
    True...but Apple actively disseminates the idea that it is bullet proof to the general non-techie public.
  9. #29  
    Sadly, and stupidly, what Apple has essentially done here is slap their paying customers in the face. I'm sorry to disagree with those of you who claim that "Apple is in the business of making money therefore they SHOULD restrict sync access to iTunes to only Apple products."

    First of all, can you not see the idiocy in that line of thinking? HELLLLLOOOO fanboys, but last time I checked, iTunes is an Apple product and Apple DOES profit from the paid download use of that site.

    By trying, in what reads like a deseperate and pathetic plea to retain a market share that the PRE is beginning to capture, Apple is essentially telling its PAYING iTunes customers that they just don't matter. That's cr@p. It just is.

    I'm sorry, but I have PAID for my products on iTunes and I should be able to put them wherever the hell I choose. Apple's little game of making the customer jump through its hoops is going to backfire. Bigtime.

    Here in Tennessee, we are eagerly anticipating the arrival of "Tax Free Days" which is three days of tax free purchases intended for back to school. Ironically, I was just in the Apple store this past Monday. I talked at length with a rep about purchasing a MacBook... and made an appointment to personal shop with him during the tax holiday. Heck, a tax free laptop -- why not?

    But Apple's latest attempt to further shackle its customers to its platforms and hardware has turned me off soooooo greatly, that I will be canceling and letting the store manager know EXACTLY why. I'll do my laptop shopping (and all of my FUTURE shopping) elsewhere.

    Bad form Apple. Bad form
    "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." ~ Samuel Beckett
  10. DHart's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I suspect some of the users here are too young to completely understand the "history repeats itself" remark.

    Apple made a decision back in the 70's (ancient history in the computer world) to maintain a completely closed (and proprietary) architecture on their hardware. They did this so they could control all add-on devices and peripherals. It also helped them maintain a virtually bulletproof OS (no pesky outside configuration files, and eventually libraries, to worry about).

    IBM took the opposite route. Some say that was a mistake, and it may be debatable - it was great for the consumer, and especially for MicroSoft, but there's a reason you don't see as big a market share of IBM PC's (not IBM compatible, but IBM branded). They got swamped by clones and gave up. Apple did well... for a while.

    The problem though, isn't whether or not that was a good idea for Apple, or a bad idea for IBM (their decision really did all but kill off their consumer PC division). The problem is that the genie's out of the bottle. The consumer has come to demand interoperability, and that's not going to change.

    Apple is not going to succesfully grab the genie back, and stuff it in the bottle. It's really interesting to see the blowback that Apple is getting from folks that don't even have a Pre over this one.

    You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time...
    Right on the money. I remember it well and that is why I have never succumbed to Apple's BS. Thank you for a concise and accurate description of Apple's history of building proprietary hardware and software that limited their market share.

    This new attempt to control another market with another proprietary platform will ultimately result in stunted growth again. I think history will repeat.
  11. KAM1138
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    #31  
    Hello Everyone,

    Wordweaver has it right--Apple is in the business with itunes of selling music. If they don't want the business of Pre Users then screw them. There are plenty of places to get music.

    Apple wants to restrict their site--fine, let them. I'll go elsewhere.

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 07/16/2009 at 02:58 PM. Reason: Typo
  12. DHart's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    Keeping everything within Apple's platform has worked for Apple so far--the iPhone and ipods lead their respective industries.

    Apple knows what it's doing.

    It knows that, despite your complaints, you'll come back soon begging for more.
    It sure seemed to work well for them the first time.

    Back in the late 70's Apple WAS the personal computer market. It had virturally 100% market share. Then IBM introduced an open system in 1981 and Apple's market share plummeted. If Apple maintains these anti-competitive closed end practices, it will repeat it's earlier disaster. Someone will come out with a more competitive solution.
  13. #33  
    I had an ipod nano when it was a few years ago and download itunes back then I really hated itunes. I got my pre and found out itunes works with it so I ended up d/l itunes again and still hated it. I probably would have used it more and paid for some songs if it was faster. Now that they blocked my pre not like I care but they wont have a chance to get my impulse purchase and maybe even start liking it.
  14. Quold's Avatar
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by peestandingup View Post
    If Apple produced their own line of digital cameras, there's no doubt in my mind that they'd eventually drop support for other 3rd party cameras in iPhoto.
    Oh Great - you just gave the Apple folks another way to screw us.

    -----

    All this comparison to Microsoft - I understand the point being made - but to me Apple is becoming more like Walmart by attempting to lock out everyone else. What they are doing is attempting to control every aspect of the distribution process. The thing is, they are using the end-user (the consumer) to do the distributing for them.
  15. Cringer's Avatar
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    #35  
    Just to share, I enjoyed this article and it's pretty honest and unbiased IMO.

    How Does Ubuntu 9.04 Measure Up to Mac OS X? | Linux Magazine
  16. Rhody's Avatar
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    It knows that, despite your complaints, you'll come back soon begging for more.
    How can I have more if I haven't had any yet?
  17. #37  
    This isn't directly related to the Pre, but I think its relevant.

    DailyTech - Apple Begs for Mercy, Asks Microsoft to Stop Airing Laptop Hunter Ads

    And so we've been running these PC value ads. Just giving people saying, hey, what are you looking to spend? "Oh, I'm looking to spend less than $1,000." Well we'll give you $1,000. Go in and look and see what you can buy. And they come out and they just show them. Those are completely unscripted commercials.

    And you know why I know they're working? Because two weeks ago we got a call from the Apple legal department saying, hey -- this is a true story -- saying, "Hey, you need to stop running those ads, we lowered our prices." They took like $100 off or something. It was the greatest single phone call in the history that I've ever taken in business.

    I did cartwheels down the hallway. At first I said, "Is this a joke? Who are you?" Not understanding what an opportunity. And so we're just going to keep running them and running them and running them.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelet View Post
    This is what I posted on Apple's discussion board before they promptly pulled it:
    Ha! Yeah, there is NO way they let any criticism stay on their forums too long. Bunch of pansy moderators.

    They threatened me a couple yrs ago when I began to point out how much iChat sucked!
  19. Stake's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Quold View Post
    Oh Great - you just gave the Apple folks another way to screw us.

    -----

    All this comparison to Microsoft - I understand the point being made - but to me Apple is becoming more like Walmart by attempting to lock out everyone else. What they are doing is attempting to control every aspect of the distribution process. The thing is, they are using the end-user (the consumer) to do the distributing for them.
    Don't forget, Apple did make cameras for a brief time in history...
    Apple QuickTake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  20. #40  
    It irritates me that so many companies these days think people exist only to be customers and that manipulating customers is easier than building a better product than the competitors.

    Apple should be thankful for the Pre. It forced them to make significant improvements to the iPhone which is much better for Apple's future than driving me to boycott Apple is. I like Apple's products but really don't enjoy using any product that causes me to feel manipulated.

    A little respect Apple, ok!
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