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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    It sucks playing thread cop today, but what's the purpose of the Cross-Platform forum if mods allow threads like this to stay in the Pre forum?

    I mean, I have an iPod Touch too. Great device. Legitimate topic of discussion.

    Just. Not. Here.
    You are right of course. I started the thread, and had I notice the Cross-Platform forum, I would have posted there. I should have payed closer attention.

    My bad.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    In fairness to Apple, they have to charge for the update due to Sarbanes-Oxley accounting rules. They don't charge for the iPhone update because they're realizing their revenue from it over 2 years. I'm sure the $9.95 probably just covers the cost of selling the software.
    No.
    Software companies give free updates all the time. They also choose to charge for updates from time to time. Apple is looking at their large userbase and saying 'We can make a killing'. And they will.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlan View Post
    No.
    Software companies give free updates all the time. They also choose to charge for updates from time to time. Apple is looking at their large userbase and saying 'We can make a killing'. And they will.
    Apple is using subscription accounting for the iPhone which is why they don't charge for substantial upgrades (not bugfixes) for it. If they wanted to release an upgrade for free on iPods and their base stations (access points) they'd have to open their books up again in past financial periods to amend them. This changes earnings and affects analyst estimates:

    Accounting rules behind iPod touch update charge | iPod | Macworld

    The Macalope Blog Archive Must the Macalope do everything?

    About that $20 upgrade... | The Macalope: An Apple blog - CNET News

    No doubt they have control over what they charge, but I keep getting more and more surprised over this forum's seeming certainty on issues they haven't researched or don't know anything about.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlan View Post
    No.
    Software companies give free updates all the time. They also choose to charge for updates from time to time. Apple is looking at their large userbase and saying 'We can make a killing'. And they will.
    Correct.

    Microsoft has updated and added drastically new functionality and features to it's Xbox 360 platform several times, and will do so again this fall - for free.

    I work for a software company that introduces huge features and new functionality every 6 months - for no extra cost.

    Apple is just greedy. They have loyal-to-the-death fans that keep opening their wallets and telling them their behavior is ok, which is the bottom line of why I can't stand Apple.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlan View Post
    No.
    Software companies give free updates all the time. They also choose to charge for updates from time to time. Apple is looking at their large userbase and saying 'We can make a killing'. And they will.
    I'm not sure why people are upset about apple charging ipod owners for an annual update. Has nothing to do with accounting rules. I'll be paying for windows 7 or an update to garmin maps. This is no different.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    Correct.
    Incorrect. Can you please read up on some accounting rules, or, at the very least, read the articles I linked to? I mean, c'mon, they're right above your post!

    Apple doesn't use subcription accounting for the Touch. I'll go ahead and guess YOUR company and Microsoft for the XBOX 360 does...

    And if your company doesn't, it's probably a lot easier for them to go back in the financials to realize more revenue than it is for Apple.


    Apple is just greedy. They have loyal-to-the-death fans that keep opening their wallets and telling them their behavior is ok, which is the bottom line of why I can't stand Apple.
    There people go again. Speaking with such certainty on things they don't know about.

    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I'm not sure why people are upset about apple charging ipod owners for an annual update. Has nothing to do with accounting rules. I'll be paying for windows 7 or an update to garmin maps. This is no different.
    Accounting rules. I'm not saying Apple needs to charge $10 or $20 but it makes everything easier if they do charge for it. They make a profit, people who don't upgrade end up with exactly what they originally purchased, and they don't have to go back in their financials.


    PRE SPECIFIC LINK: http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/19/p...d-cpas-rejoic/
    Last edited by Badandy127; 07/02/2009 at 11:05 AM.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Predator-1 View Post
    I don't see why people complain about lack of apps. Not too long ago, there was almost no such thing as an app store. All we wanted our smartphones to do was: be a phone, check email, some web browsing and maybe play a game or two. Now it's a make-or-break deal with some people. Phones didn't always have apps at all. They were just cellphones. What did you all do back then?
    I don't understand this. App stores just make things more convenient is all. But i'd argue we pay too much for this convenience as it gives too much power to Apple, Palm, or the carriers.

    The past decade since i've been with Palm there have been 3rd party apps hosted at numerous sites. This is what you did before Apple made things easier by becoming the sole provider of iphone apps. FWIW, i was able to browse sites, using the Treo/Centro, download .prc files and install them.

    Pdanet, you could use to tether. Call Rec, you could use to automatically record conversations and save on card. There were thousands of other similar apps.

    Apps are what differentiate a smartphone from a feature phone like the Instinct. Our Pre isn't very smart right now but that time is coming..

    Already there's been a debate on whether Sprint will make Sling cripple its app or whether Palm will allow pdanet. THERE SHOULD NOT BE A DEBATE ON THIS if we can sideload apps as promised in the future by Palm. If Palm has to approve every app that someone makes, then this sucks for us..because this gives carriers veto powers as well.
  8. Bcool's Avatar
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    #28  
    Badandy127 IS correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badandy127 View Post
    Incorrect. Can you please read up on some accounting rules, or, at the very least, read the articles I linked to? I mean, c'mon, they're right above your post!

    Apple doesn't use subcription accounting for the Touch. I'll go ahead and guess YOUR company and Microsoft for the XBOX 360 does...

    And if your company doesn't, it's probably a lot easier for them to go back in the financials to realize more revenue than it is for Apple.




    There people go again. Speaking with such certainty on things they don't know about.



    Accounting rules. I'm not saying Apple needs to charge $10 or $20 but it makes everything easier if they do charge for it. They make a profit, people who don't upgrade end up with exactly what they originally purchased, and they don't have to go back in their financials.
  9. Bcool's Avatar
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    21 Posts
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    59 Global Posts
    #29  
    Does the bluetooth have to be stereo headphones or does any bluetooth work? What BT device are you using and how does it sound?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    Sure, whatever. Depends on what you wanted from the ipod/iphone. But to my mind, better just to carry one device so maybe you should reconsider the "cheap plan" and just go for the iphone and tighten your budget in another area. I assume you have a few more days to return the pre.

    Paired the pre with bluetooth and it was terrific. I listened to music, took calls and emails when they came in, all the while in the park. I did not have to carry anything else except for ID,--a big plus.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Badandy127 View Post
    Incorrect. Can you please read up on some accounting rules, or, at the very least, read the articles I linked to? I mean, c'mon, they're right above your post!

    Apple doesn't use subcription accounting for the Touch. I'll go ahead and guess YOUR company and Microsoft for the XBOX 360 does...

    And if your company doesn't, it's probably a lot easier for them to go back in the financials to realize more revenue than it is for Apple.




    There people go again. Speaking with such certainty on things they don't know about.



    Accounting rules. I'm not saying Apple needs to charge $10 or $20 but it makes everything easier if they do charge for it. They make a profit, people who don't upgrade end up with exactly what they originally purchased, and they don't have to go back in their financials.


    PRE SPECIFIC LINK: Palm's subscription accounting webOS plans revealed, CPAs rejoice
    Quote Originally Posted by Bcool View Post
    Badandy127 IS correct.
    I'm not trying to argue that what Apple does is wrong, illegal, or even unethical. I'm simply stating that I don't like their policies. Especially when their competitors don't have them at all or aren't as bad (Two major zune updates for free so far, how about ipod?).

    If an update requires the licensing of third party software to incorporate a feature, that's a different story (like visual voicemail).

    If some day Palm tries to charge for an OS update on the Pre, they will get hell from me too.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    I'm not trying to argue that what Apple does is wrong, illegal, or even unethical.
    Yes, you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis
    Apple is just greedy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis
    Correct.
    You said "Correct" to a quote that said the accounting rules were boloney because his company gives out free upgrades.

    I'm simply stating that I don't like their policies. Especially when their competitors don't have them at all or aren't as bad (Two major zune updates for free so far, how about ipod?).
    Two MAJOR ones for the iPod Touch. Yeah, they cost money, but $30 to have full PIM apps, email, almost unlimited app functionality, a great wireless internet device (WiFi + Safari), and all that on what you originally bought as just an iPod? Not bad.

    If some day Palm tries to charge for an OS update on the Pre, they will get hell from me too.
    They won't, because of the accounting rules they chose from it. Read the last link I posted.
  12. #32  
    No. I really am not trying to argue Apple is doing something wrong. What they do is perfectly legal, as you try overly hard to prove. Great for them.

    I simply don't support company's that nickel and dime customers, regardless of their reasons. Regardless of their "accounting rules". I don't care what their reasons are and how legally justified they are. I simply don't patronize company's that operate that way.

    It's just like department stores or company's that are known to treat their employees like crap, or outsource most of their jobs oversas. Even if they do nothing illegal, I don't shop in their stores. It's all about principles.

    If it was perfectly justified, legally, accounting-wise, and ethical, for a company to make me do two back flips to get an upgrade of their software, I wouldn't do that either and I'd say it's lame.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    No. I really am not trying to argue Apple is doing something wrong. What they do is perfectly legal, as you try overly hard to prove. Great for them.
    I tried "overly" hard (2 minutes of googling and my accounting knowledge) because so many people on this forum (not you, apparently) think the accounting rules are all BS. They just don't know what they're talking about. You do and your decision to not support them is just that, your decision.

    Personally, paying $30 to take what I originally bought as an iPod and turning it into what the Touch has become is a fine price.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyBeeb View Post
    Its not the Sarbanes Oxley Act that you're trying to reference, Sarbox is a primarily an internal control regulation.

    [ accounting talk]

    The issue here is revenue recognition with multiple deliverables as defined by SOP 97-2 (a statement from the SEC). The reasoning is that a company can't recognize revenue up-front for a selling a product if they haven't delivered everything they promised (i.e. software updates). But if they sell the updates seperately, those count as seperate deliverables.

    [ /accounting talk]
    first, i wasn't referencing anything. second, that reasoning is also a load of ****- apple doesn't promise *anything* in the way of software updates, *and* they (and others) deliver updates on plenty of other products for which they recognize revenue up front.
  15. #35  
    This thread is moved to Cross-Platform Chat because it is about:
    Treo vs. iPhone. Windows Mobile vs. BlackBerry. This is the place for "What should I get" and "My smartphone can beat up your smartphone." Formerly the Smartphone Round Robin Forum.

    - Craig
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