Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. utz
    utz is offline
    utz's Avatar
    Posts
    30 Posts
       #1  
    Microsoft just released another major revision of WinCE, yet all the old problems remain. The hardware makers cannot seem to produce a small device with good battery life. They also cannot seem to bring the price down from generation to generation. After many devices the only one to have a pinch of success is the Ipaq, and yet even its sales numbers pale in comparison to Palm, not to even mention Handspring.

    After so much work, several generation, and the biggest and best hardware makers in the world, PPC still can barely garner 20% market share. How much longer will these hardware makers continue to sink millions into a product with low margins, especially in a slowing economy.

    Note: The above rant is mainly to show how stupid all the threads are that keep popping up claiming PalmOS is dying. Think about the resources and time put into PPC, and then think of the results produced. The largest, best financed hardware and software makers in the world cannot seem to get the picture, and PPC 2002 just reinforces that. It has the same problems as before. There may be a PDA OS that is dying, but it's not PalmOS.
    Utz -- (Pronounced 'ootz', it means good, happy, etc. in the Mayan language of Cakchiquel)
  2. #2  
    We are more in number because we know we can't go wrong with a Palm OS PDA
  3. Talldog's Avatar
    Posts
    157 Posts
    Global Posts
    291 Global Posts
    #3  
    You guys are making two fundamental mistakes. First, total market share of the existing population will be heavily skewed toward Palmos for a long time, simply because there were millions of them out there before PPC started selling well. Remember, long after Windows PCs were outselling DOS PCs, DOS still had a greater total market share because of the millions of DOS PCs that were already in existence. Second, the current sales figures that you see online typically reflect only U.S. retail sales. That's Palm's and Handspring's primary sales channel, but not Compaq's or HP's.

    Gartner Group's report of 2Q01 total worldwide sales (this is paid research that isn't generally available unless you have a subscription) tells a different story. I can't divulge exact numbers because of our license agreement, but here are a few extrapolations from the data. First, Palm and HS both saw their worldwide sales drop approx. 50% from 1st quarter to 2nd, while HP's were up 50% and Compaq's were up over 60%. Second, total worldwide PPC sales in 2Q01 were almost 2/3 of total PalmOS sales. Third, Compaq passed Handspring as the #2 PDA maker in the world by a very comfortable margin. Compaq sold 50% more PDAs during this time than HS. U.S. retail doesn't begin to tell the real story.

    I'm not a Microsoft or PPC bigot, I owned 4 Palms prior to my current Prism/VisorPhone combo. However, the handwriting is on the wall. PPC keeps improving and gaining more mindshare, especially in the corporate marketplace, while Palm and HS have been almost standing still.
    Talldog
  4. utz
    utz is offline
    utz's Avatar
    Posts
    30 Posts
       #4  
    Talldog, you make some interesting points. What you say about the installed PalmOS base and market share is true, but I see that as a huge advantage. As people outgrow their PDA, or need a new one, they are most likely to stick with what they already know.

    The problem with PalmOS in the short term is that there has not been any significant upgrade for some time, so many people don't see a reason to upgrade. I believe that is why the PPC numbers have looked better over the last quarter. There simple has not been anything new to buy in PalmOS, combined with the fact that Compaq was finally able to deliver the Ipaq in quantity. Yet the PalmOS still outsold PPC. (By the way, I find it hard to believe that Compaq outsold Handspring on a unit basis, that they had more revenue I do beleive).

    If Palm does not improve the OS in the future, it will die, but I don't see that happening. I see this current situation as temporary. I believe the PalmOS players will come out with some great hardware next year, combined with PalmOS 5, and continue to dominate.
    Utz -- (Pronounced 'ootz', it means good, happy, etc. in the Mayan language of Cakchiquel)
  5. Talldog's Avatar
    Posts
    157 Posts
    Global Posts
    291 Global Posts
    #5  
    Originally posted by utz
    As people outgrow their PDA, or need a new one, they are most likely to stick with what they already know.
    That's a reasonable point, but I make my living supporting PDAs and mobile infrastructure for a very large corporation, and here's what I see. Most technical IT-types are already looking to abandon PalmOS. Our current standard is PalmOS only, and I'm constantly getting hammered by people who want to be able to have PPCs. On the business side, a majority are happy with their Palms, but a growing number of people are expressing interest in iPAQs and Jornadas.

    I find it hard to believe that Compaq outsold Handspring on a unit basis, that they had more revenue I do beleive
    It's true. Compaq sold 50% more PDAs than HS for the quarter. I wish I could divulge the exact numbers, but suffice to say that whatever you think of Gartner (and I have 15 years experience with their research), they can't fudge numbers. In terms of dollar volume, Compaq barely outsold Palm, although Palm sold almost twice as many units.

    If Palm does not improve the OS in the future, it will die, but I don't see that happening. I see this current situation as temporary. I believe the PalmOS players will come out with some great hardware next year, combined with PalmOS 5, and continue to dominate.
    Palm's not going to die, but it's going to be a radically different marketplace. Unfortunately for them, their new OS isn't going to be out for another year or more. That's a lifetime in PDA years.
    Talldog
  6. #6  
    I know all of us think Palm is stagnant because we look at news on a day-to-day basis. But just 3 months or so ago we got the CLIE (a very advanced device which rivals the PocketPC on almost all fronts, and surpasses them in many). A few months before that we got the HandEra and Visor Prism. The VisorPhone and such were great too.

    One of my favorite things about Palm companies is that all of them innovate in different ways (Palm's size and design, Handspring's unique expandability, HandEra's um.. stuff, Sony's multimedia features etc). What are the differences between the many PocketPC brands? "Well.. one of them has a CF card slot built in, this other one needs a sleeve"

    They even all look the same now.

    I can't wait to see the next thing Handspring brings to the table (as do many of us, I think, which is why so many were disappointed in the Neo/Pro); I think it'll be safe to say PocketPC's won't have it!
  7. #7  
    Pocket PC or PalmOS is surely not dying. The use of mobile devices is gradually increasing as more people realize its potential and use. Both markets will surely rise, though many of your points are true.

    PalmOS has a great many developers both software and hardware that innovate far better than any PPC developer. PPC is very powerful indeed, but it serves a different audience than Palm. Palm will continue to dominate the low end consumer and your average joe smoe.

    However, at the high end of mobile devices, the Power User, there's going to be a long hard battle fought beteen the PalmOS and PPC. PalmOS is struggling to come out with the best of the best new technology. The m505 is a minor advancement, as is the Sony Clie, if you compare there functionality to PPC. Right now, Palm is holding onto the Power Users. But, if they don't deliver something that can satisfy both Power Users and Low End users, than they may have a problems.

    If they don't deliver to power users, many people, including myself would switch to PPC. If they do deliver to power users, but bloat the OS, like PPC is right now, they'll lose many low end users.

    Palm's job is hard right now, they have to satisfy us, the power users, and the low end ease of use, simplistic user.
    nelson.hsieh
    good artists copy, great artists steal. . .
  8. #8  
    Hmm...interesting converstion. HS is losing me. I'm switching to a Jornada, and I'll tell you why.

    I happen to thing the PPC's to a great job at PIM. I love the Today screen. Its a great QuickView of what you have to accomplish today.
    Integrated MP3/WMA Music...Integrated CF slot, great battery life considering all it does. Good screen on the new 560 series. Compact size...its thiner than my Platinum with teh Memplug CF in it. I'm tired of switching my MiniJam out to use my VisorPhone, plugging my Memplug CF in to use my CF card.

    I consider myself a power user, and this power user has decided to switch. I want to be able to have multiple apps open, listen to music, and have nice color all at the same time.

    Besides, I've never gotten to 'love' the Visor Phone...I don't like that antenna pointed at the back of my head when I'm on the phone, and don't have the earbud plugged in.

    I just think the Jornada's (560 series) have it all together, and MS is making updates as fast as they can to catch up to Palm, and as has been stated, they are gaining. my 2 cents...although I'll probably keep my Platinum & accessories until I see what HS's next color device looks like...
  9. #9  
    Originally posted by dorelse
    Hmm...interesting converstion. HS is losing me. I'm switching to a Jornada, and I'll tell you why.

    I happen to thing the PPC's to a great job at PIM. I love the Today screen. Its a great QuickView of what you have to accomplish today.
    Integrated MP3/WMA Music...Integrated CF slot, great battery life considering all it does. Good screen on the new 560 series. Compact size...its thiner than my Platinum with teh Memplug CF in it. I'm tired of switching my MiniJam out to use my VisorPhone, plugging my Memplug CF in to use my CF card.

    I consider myself a power user, and this power user has decided to switch. I want to be able to have multiple apps open, listen to music, and have nice color all at the same time.

    Besides, I've never gotten to 'love' the Visor Phone...I don't like that antenna pointed at the back of my head when I'm on the phone, and don't have the earbud plugged in.

    I just think the Jornada's (560 series) have it all together, and MS is making updates as fast as they can to catch up to Palm, and as has been stated, they are gaining. my 2 cents...although I'll probably keep my Platinum & accessories until I see what HS's next color device looks like...
    I think you should get a Sony Clie PEG-N760C!

    How you ever tried the Date / Phone Book Apps? Do they REALLY work for you? You can get the same "Today" view on Palm with DateBk4 or Whatzup. Plus, they software is much easier to use and just as if not more powerful. The Clie has integrated MP3 player, that has 11 hours playback, and a remote control. The battery life on the Clie outshines any device out there of its class. Read this article...

    http://www.nikkeibp.asiabiztech.com/...bt/news/137452

    The Clie's color screen is simply, AWESOME, and the display of 65,000 colors is great. You can play MP3s, get files off the memory stick without changing anything. There isn't a cell phone add on yet though...

    Well, just my thoughts about Palm, if the Jornada suits you, that's great, but there are other options avaliable for Palm...you can get a 710 for $400 and upgrade it to OS 4.1

    The Clie can play music, and has a nice screen. Multitasking...PPC wins...

    The Clie is in general a GREAT device, and I feel better than any PPC in functionality, battery life, and size.
    nelson.hsieh
    good artists copy, great artists steal. . .
  10. #10  
    Originally posted by AzNCoMpUtAnErD

    The Clie is in general a GREAT device, and I feel better than any PPC in functionality, battery life, and size.
    Really the only one that the Clie wins on is size.

    The PPC has much more functionality. When you compare processing power, OS capability (mutithreaded, preemptive multitasking, etc.), or memory, the PPC wins across the board. The built-in apps are much more complete. The downside is that using the PPC is more complex and takes more effort and time to learn.

    You might be surprised by battery life. The new HP Jornadas come with a battery that is good for 14 hours. This may be a record for either a color Palm or color PPC. There is also an optional 28 hour battery that sticks out the back less then 1/8". Since the battery is removable, you can also carry extras.

    Size is no comparison. The new PPCs are all about the size of a Palm III or Visor. Some of them actually approach the size of a IIIc. The Sony wins the size competition by a knock-out.
  11. #11  
    All I have to say about Palm vs. Pocket PC is that I loved my Palm IIIc, but once I switched to an HP Jornada I liked the PocketPC setup alot more. And now that I have an Ipaq 3650 with OS 4, I feel pretty good about saying it's a superior platform to anything palm can throw at it. Now if only I can get my hands on a 3800 series Ipaq.
  12. #12  
    I always say: to each its own...

    Neither platform will die...
    It's like comparing MPV's versus 2 seater convertables...both have a market and buyers of both say the other model sucks...
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  13. #13  
    Hear hear. They are both great platforms.
  14. #14  
    Pocket PC is not dying, its more like "evolving"! I just upgraded to an Ipaq from a Clie 610 because I needed Excel (Yes I tried Quick Office and Datviz) and it works flawlessely on a PPC. I think that Microsoft is slowly but surely getting it right.

    Granted the Palm OS is easier to use but man, the Palm OS is boring! I've owned 9 Palm OS devices (Pilot, IIIe, Visor Dx, IIIxe, Clie S300,M505, N710, N610)and I like what they can do but PPC is the future, like it or not!

    If you look at what Sony and Handera has done to the Palm OS. They have pushed it to almost as far as it can go. And even with those changes, (color, expandibility, updated OS) PPC had already incorporated those features a couple of years ago. I think in time Microsoft will get it right.
  15. utz
    utz is offline
    utz's Avatar
    Posts
    30 Posts
       #15  
    bearboy,

    I don't think either platform will die. The start of this thread is mainly sarcastic. I do think you are a perfect candidate for PPC based on your PDA history and statement that PalmOS is boring. Maybe PalmOS is boring, but it is also useful and easy. That is why I like it. You seem like the a gadget freak (M505, N710, and N610 in the last 4 months?), so maybe PPC is for you. It has a bigger wow fator. My point is that at this point in the game Palm and PPC really appeal to different markets. They seems to both be trying to move more in the middle and capture more market share. My personal belief is that Palm will win this battle because the market is bigger for small, cheap, and easy devices.
    Utz -- (Pronounced 'ootz', it means good, happy, etc. in the Mayan language of Cakchiquel)
  16. #16  
    Originally posted by utz
    bearboy,

    I don't think either platform will die. The start of this thread is mainly sarcastic. I do think you are a perfect candidate for PPC based on your PDA history and statement that PalmOS is boring. Maybe PalmOS is boring, but it is also useful and easy. That is why I like it. You seem like the a gadget freak (M505, N710, and N610 in the last 4 months?), so maybe PPC is for you. It has a bigger wow fator. My point is that at this point in the game Palm and PPC really appeal to different markets. They seems to both be trying to move more in the middle and capture more market share. My personal belief is that Palm will win this battle because the market is bigger for small, cheap, and easy devices.

    Oh I agree with you utz! I think both platforms have their good and bad points and both have thier own following. I'm just saying that PPC has so much more potential than the Palm OS. Now if Palm comes out next year with the new ARM based devices then I would agree that Palm will still be ahead of the game. But considering Palm and Handspring have been pretty much sitting on their hands and not releasing any devices with that "wow" factor I think that PPC will make up more ground.

    Also don't forget that the prices for PPC is going down, the B&W Ipaq is about $150.00-$200.00 and the older Ipaqs, HPs and Casio will also be going down in price since the new devices are coimg out.So PPC may not overtake Palm anytime soon but it seems they are "chipping away" at Palm's Market share.

Posting Permissions