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  1. #41  
    Regardless of how you feel about the iPhone or its target market, you have *got* to be impressed with the ability to move that many phones in a weekend. They bested Palm/Sprint by a factor of 10. Palm/Sprint will need until the end of the summer to reach half that number by the estimates that I have seen.
    IIIx -> Tungsten T -> Treo 650 -> Treo 700p -> Launch day Pre
  2. DogEarsAZ's Avatar
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    #42  
    I left AT&T and came back to Sprint for a Pre. Really happy with the phone, and there is a big enough market for everyone to play in.

    I think that those phoning in the death of Palm simply don't know what they are talking about. The WebOS legitimizes Palm as a major player in the market. I think you can expect the other vendors to rethink a lot of things based on what WebOS does so well.

    In the end, Apple needed serious competition to push their OS. And now they have it from WebOS, Android, and hopefully WinMo7.
  3. #43  
    If they gsm pre woulda been released alongside the cdma pre palm would sell 1 miilion in a month. Add that with some aggressive marketing.
  4. 1414H77's Avatar
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by leftyman View Post
    I wanted proof as to new costumers and not upgrades.

    "Furthermore, Apple is getting lots of new people who did not previously use AT&T"
    Read the following Bloomberg story. Also, I am still searching for the actual article for you that shows the exact channel percentages, but it was significantly better for Apple, which converted much more in new customers to AT&T as a percentage. I'll find the articles I saw- just give me a little time.

    Sprint, Palm Fall as Pres Go to Current Customers (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by hbg View Post
    Read the following Bloomberg story. Also, I am still searching for the actual article for you that shows the exact channel percentages, but it was significantly better for Apple, which converted much more in new customers to AT&T as a percentage. I'll find the articles I saw- just give me a little time.

    Sprint, Palm Fall as Pres Go to Current Customers (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
    that Bloomberg article is conjecture and states NO sale numbers to new OR existing costumers.
  6. 1414H77's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by leftyman View Post
    that Bloomberg article is conjecture and states NO sale numbers to new OR existing costumers.
    I am looking for the actual article to point you to. It gives the actual adoption percentages of new versus existing customers. Just give me time because I did not bookmark it.
  7. 1414H77's Avatar
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    #47  
    Also, it was not "conjecture" as you say. If you go look at information on the analyst report it was based on a survey of retail sites.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by hbg View Post
    Also, it was not "conjecture" as you say. If you go look at information on the analyst report it was based on a survey of retail sites.
    "most buyers" is not a number.

    I am also sure that "most buyers" of the 3gs are also already AT&T subscribers.

    neither Sprint or Palm has released any #'s afaikafaikafaik.
  9. 1414H77's Avatar
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    #49  
    Leftyman, I told you I'm going to find the articles so just hold your horses! As to numbers, the Wachovia Securities analyst does not release the actual results in their news release because they are putting that in their research report that they issue to clients. I am actually also seeing if a friend of mine at Wachovia Securities can get me the analyst's actual research report.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Young HoV 718 View Post
    1 million iphones sold is not anything big since it was released on multiple carriers. If the pre was released world wide it would prolly have sold 1 million already too.
    Well, a company would have to be able to manufacture a million phones in order to sell that many now wouldn't it? Palm probably won't come close to that figure until well into next year. By that time Apple's sales will be passing 30 million and the "battle for the fat middle" will be over.

    Quote Originally Posted by no1smartphone View Post
    You can trick some of the people everytime.
    Still in denial are we?

    And now for the apologist section. Here are just a subset of the posts that claim supply is the only reason the Pre isn't owning the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    There aren't exactly a whole lot of spare Pres sitting on shelves not being bought. Palm has sold as many as they could make.
    Quote Originally Posted by tkam View Post
    Part of the reason we didn't see more Palm/Sprint advertising for the Pre is that they knew the supply would be very limited for quite some time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Anderson View Post
    Right- for Palm this is about sales- not beating the iPhone.

    The Pre is clearly selling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucidlore View Post
    The marketing was lackluster, but the point of marketing the phone to SELL more phones would be lost if you marketed the phone but lacked the phones to sell anyways. From what i hear a lot of stores are still either sold out or have long waiting list. In this case, it appears that the constraint on Pres sold has not been based on the fact that there were not enough people wanting to buy the phone, so much as there not being enough phones to go around.
    The irony of all these posts is that without product you have nothing. This is killing Palm off. They are far from reaching economies of scale with the Pre, but trying to sell it at a price point that indicates they have achieved economies of scale. This translates into poor profits (or losses) for a flag ship product. This, in turn, results in insufficient revenues to upgrade the current model or produce new models. And in the middle of Palm's paltry showing, Apple comes out and without even trying, drubs Palm by an order of magnitude. Apple is simultaneously expanding their market share (at Palm's expense) while throwing doubt into potential Pre customers' minds about the viability of Palm's model line.

    In other words, as much as people had hopes otherwise, it looks like not much has changed with Palm. They are still the same old company that can guarantee a poor showing from an almost sure thing. I'm amused by how many here try to pin the fanboy moniker on iPhone users as a defense mechanism for their own product's impending failure. Flagship indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by realistdreamer View Post
    Bigger company, more cash for production, better distribution, better known product and brand. What did you expect. There is room for at least 4 players in this market. Software-wise, Palm will be one of those players.
    LOL - There's already Symbian, iPhone, RIM, Windows Mobile, Android and back in 6th place: Pre. You better hope you're wrong! (But I don't think you are)
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    #51  
    proof please.
    I'm not buying the million number either. same thing was said the first monday after the android was released and the reality was they didn't hit a million until april. knowing apple they are trying to build buzz and get press for a phone that really came up short this time. i could be wrong but i dont think i am.
    no how, iphone is the new microsoft of phone.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Well, a company would have to be able to manufacture a million phones in order to sell that many now wouldn't it? Palm probably won't come close to that figure until well into next year. By that time Apple's sales will be passing 30 million and the "battle for the fat middle" will be over.

    Still in denial are we?

    And now for the apologist section. Here are just a subset of the posts that claim supply is the only reason the Pre isn't owning the world.




    The irony of all these posts is that without product you have nothing. This is killing Palm off. They are far from reaching economies of scale with the Pre, but trying to sell it at a price point that indicates they have achieved economies of scale. This translates into poor profits (or losses) for a flag ship product. This, in turn, results in insufficient revenues to upgrade the current model or produce new models. And in the middle of Palm's paltry showing, Apple comes out and without even trying, drubs Palm by an order of magnitude. Apple is simultaneously expanding their market share (at Palm's expense) while throwing doubt into potential Pre customers' minds about the viability of Palm's model line.

    In other words, as much as people had hopes otherwise, it looks like not much has changed with Palm. They are still the same old company that can guarantee a poor showing from an almost sure thing. I'm amused by how many here try to pin the fanboy moniker on iPhone users as a defense mechanism for their own product's impending failure. Flagship indeed.

    LOL - There's already Symbian, iPhone, RIM, Windows Mobile, Android and back in 6th place: Pre. You better hope you're wrong! (But I don't think you are)
    Let's not be silly here. Being a fanboy of any phone is near sighted at best, and utterly stupid in your case.

    Apple sells 29 quadrillion Iphones, and Palm sells 100,000 Pre's. Apple shares go down 20 percent because they sold 30 quadrillion last year... Palm shares go up because they only thought they would sell 90,000 Pre's.

    It is all about how you set your benchmarks. Apple's benchmarks are very high because they are currently 3 Iphone versions into their sales and they need to have blockbuster sales in order to be successfull.

    All Palm needed was a solid first showing, and in no way needed to match Iphone sales.

    Put it in terms of PC vs. Mac if you want. Would you say that Apple is not successfull with, and I am being generous here, 12% of the PC market?

    Just because ones sales dwarf the other doesn't make them less appealing.

    I might also state, that I am an Apple fan, but I am not so blind to see the Palm for what it is. Palm most certainly has a winner. All this mindless hate from Apple fanboys is lame, just as it is from the newly initiated Palm Pre Fanboys.
    Last edited by pogeypre; 06/22/2009 at 01:27 PM.
  13. dh23's Avatar
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    #53  
    Those of you trying to justify low sales of the Pre are just ridiculous. Let me point out that the 3Gs release was ONLY in 8 countries and still garnered over a million in 3 days! Come on people, it's ok to like your pre but this is getting a bit ridiculous. Also there are many people saying Apple is a marketing machine blah blah, I'm not saying they are not good at it but lets be real has anyone seen the new 3gs commercial on TV? I certainly have not, have not seen it any magazines either so where is all this marketing you all speak of. Last but not least you all should be thanking Apple, if there was no Apple there would be no Pre in it's current form, period end of story.
  14.    #54  
    Again, only time will tell. If this were a pure Palm vs. Apple challenge then I'd say Palm can reast firmly on it's Palm OS fan-base. But given the brand new WebOS, we'll just have to see how it all shakes out.

    I predict many more converts to the WebOS than what we see on the horizon today. But Palm had just better put the profits from their surging stock values to good advertising use and let the world know that iPhone is not the only big dog on the block anymore.

    Because, regardless of what anyone at Palm or any of you all say, the Pre IS in fact competing with the iPhone. We all have even come to the realization that if you want to carry on with "business" as usual (heavy business user), go get yourself a Treo Pro and don't be bothered with the media laden Pre.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by hbg View Post
    Leftyman, I told you I'm going to find the articles so just hold your horses! As to numbers, the Wachovia Securities analyst does not release the actual results in their news release because they are putting that in their research report that they issue to clients. I am actually also seeing if a friend of mine at Wachovia Securities can get me the analyst's actual research report.
    There have been NO official #'s released from Sprint or Palm..so I dont care who your friend works for unless its Sprint or Palm he isnt going to have any hard numbers.
  16. #56  
    Apple released the figures. it's on their website - so lets assume they are accurate.

    Palm has cashflow problems. I said that countless times before. they have around $325m on their balance sheet. That's barely enough to pay for 100k phones at production cost.

    Remember their manufacturers wants some payment up front and Sprint would hold back at least 2 months before paying Palm. First the wait until after the 30 days for returns then another 30 days to pay.

    Palm biggest problem - it never expected the Pre to sell out in over a weekend. It seems that it's hard to get hold of.

    Palm got this all wrong. Unless there were production issues they needed to get the Pre out in March/April the latest and then hit the market with another wave of production right now. Shifting perhaps 200k phones before even one iPhone 3GS was shifted.

    Samsung Jet has 2 million pre-orders so demand for feature phones and smartphones is still hot.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by leftyman View Post
    There have been NO official #'s released from Sprint or Palm..so I dont care who your friend works for unless its Sprint or Palm he isnt going to have any hard numbers.
    I find it telling that Apple came out right away and announced their opening weekend sales figures while Palm has made no effort to announce theirs.
  18. Adjei's Avatar
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by jabou View Post
    proof please.
    I'm not buying the million number either. same thing was said the first monday after the android was released and the reality was they didn't hit a million until april. knowing apple they are trying to build buzz and get press for a phone that really came up short this time. i could be wrong but i dont think i am.
    no how, iphone is the new microsoft of phone.
    Right now this is funny. I guess if Palm said they sold a million Pres, you would believe them, I wonder why they haven't released the numbers for the Pres.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adjei View Post
    I doubt that, since the iphone outsold the Pre in the US based on pre orders alone from AT&T and that's not even accounting those who went to the stores and bought or pre orders from Apple.
    That's not really that surprising. It's an upgrade to an established product and the 1st gen iPhone owners were at or coming close to the end of their AT&T contracts, so they upgraded to a newer phone.

    The Pre is basically at where the original iPhone was when it launched. New OS and UI made available to the public, few 3rd party accessories, little in the way of 3rd party software, no SDK available, etc. Apple sold 270,000 of them in the first quarter that they were available.

    AT&T has 72 million of the 271 million cell phone subscriptions in the US. Apple can make lots of money converting customers from other brands already on AT&T.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Renderhaus View Post
    I predict many more converts to the WebOS than what we see on the horizon today. But Palm had just better put the profits from their surging stock values to good advertising use and let the world know that iPhone is not the only big dog on the block anymore.
    Has Palm made any public offerings of stock lately? If not, their stock price isn't going to make much of a difference to what they have to spend on advertisting. It would make a difference for employees that have some of their compensation in stocks or options or if they were going to using a stock swap to purchase something from another company. It will make people who own the stock happy, though.

    A company that I worked for in the 90s had their stock price oscillate between 20 & 30 over a year for most of the 90s. It didn't make a damn bit of difference on how well the company was operating. The stock price finally got out of that rut after the board decided to start using excess profits to start to buy back some of the stocks that it originally sold. Sure that could have been used to pay off other debt, but that was already manageable and it made the stockholders happy.
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