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  1. dwang's Avatar
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    #21  
    one of the main complaints about the g1 was the small amount of flash available for apps. Of course, shortly after the g1 came out, somebody came out with a hack that allows apps to be run from the sdcard, which removed that limitation. So instead of waiting for google to come up with a solution (which still hasn't arrived), the android hacking community did it themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarrett5381 View Post
    I had a G1 with T-mobile for about 6 months. Overall I was very happy with android as an O.S. I prefer the browser in the Pre and Iphone over the G1 though, mainly because I like the way the page is zoomed out as opposed to zoomed in on the G1. The camera on the G1 is TERRIBLE. Other than that, I actually preferred the G1 to the iphone 3G, I just wish the G1 allowed for more storage space for apps. The main contributing factors that led me to the Pre were lack of 3G where I live, which made browsing horrendously slow, and clunky hardware. If the form factor was smaller and sexier like the Pre and there was 3G in my area I probably wouldn't have switched. That being said, I love the Pre and Sprint is the best network for my needs and I have tried all of them. Depending where the Pre's O.S. is at the time I may switch back to android when Sprint gets one.
  2. #22  
    Android has some limiting problems.... If you decide not to root your phone. Rooting your phone allows for multi-touch, movement of application installations to SD cards, etc.

    As far as polish of the OS goes, the Pre is stunning... The Android OS is clunky and just feels dated in comparison. But the main difference between truly being open (Android) and being the Palm Pre, is there are already a wealth of different google builds (like the hero build) that can completely change the way the OS looks without removing it's core compatibility with other applications. Add to it, the ability to run widgets (something I hope finds it's way to the Pre one day), a great deal of quality FREE applications.

    And now the announcement of the new developer tool Appcelerator Titanium, which will allow for Iphone/Ipod Touch applications to convert relatively easily over to Android OS, and vise versa... Which is huge for Android's market place.

    My last phone before I got the Palm Pre was the T-mobile G1. And I really do miss the G1 and am heavily considering going back. But I absolutely love the web browser for the Pre, the real GPS ability, and the overall look and function of the OS, etc.

    But I miss some of the applications I have become dependent on that are found on the G1. There were a few palm classic alternatives for it, but I'm not dropping 30 bucks on software that emulates old outdated software, especially when it's buggy as hell.

    So I'm hoping to see some big progress in the next couple weeks before the end of the 30 day return period happens, otherwise I'll have to return to the Pre some other time.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by dwang View Post
    Unless palm opens up the source to the webos, I don't see how webos will surpass android in hackability and openness.

    The entire source to the android OS is available. The only things that aren't open source are the closed google apps (gmail, calendar, google maps, etc). Google hasn't made the source code available to those, but the kernel, the entire android framework, browser, IM application, home application, etc are completely open for any coder to download and modify.

    There's already a custom image out for the g1 that replaces the default kernel scheduler, with a different one to improve performance. Thats only possible on the android platform because the source is available.
    well palm os is based on linux Just like android, so the base OS is under the GPL license and the source has to be released. The closed part on the pre will be the UI which granted is a bigger portion than on android. All in all android will remain more hackable, but the pre will be second right behind it.

    at any rate things like a new image with a recompiled kernel would be possible on the pre.
  4. #24  
    <Moved>This is the appropriate forum for this.
  5. dwang's Avatar
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    #25  
    Google has never been good at UI. Just look at their web apps, very simple basic looking UI and that has translated to android.

    But HTC with their ROSIE UI looks fantastic. I'm looking forward to the release of the htc hero phone. Rosie has been ported over to the g1, but it clearly was designed for more powerful hardware as its slow and laggy running on the g1.

    I would love to see an android phone running with the same CPU and memory specs as the pre.

    Quote Originally Posted by CDRacingZX6R View Post
    Android has some limiting problems.... If you decide not to root your phone. Rooting your phone allows for multi-touch, movement of application installations to SD cards, etc.

    As far as polish of the OS goes, the Pre is stunning... The Android OS is clunky and just feels dated in comparison. But the main difference between truly being open (Android) and being the Palm Pre, is there are already a wealth of different google builds (like the hero build) that can completely change the way the OS looks without removing it's core compatibility with other applications. Add to it, the ability to run widgets (something I hope finds it's way to the Pre one day), a great deal of quality FREE applications.

    And now the announcement of the new developer tool Appcelerator Titanium, which will allow for Iphone/Ipod Touch applications to convert relatively easily over to Android OS, and vise versa... Which is huge for Android's market place.

    My last phone before I got the Palm Pre was the T-mobile G1. And I really do miss the G1 and am heavily considering going back. But I absolutely love the web browser for the Pre, the real GPS ability, and the overall look and function of the OS, etc.

    But I miss some of the applications I have become dependent on that are found on the G1. There were a few palm classic alternatives for it, but I'm not dropping 30 bucks on software that emulates old outdated software, especially when it's buggy as hell.

    So I'm hoping to see some big progress in the next couple weeks before the end of the 30 day return period happens, otherwise I'll have to return to the Pre some other time.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by dwang View Post
    Google has never been good at UI. Just look at their web apps, very simple basic looking UI and that has translated to android.

    But HTC with their ROSIE UI looks fantastic. I'm looking forward to the release of the htc hero phone. Rosie has been ported over to the g1, but it clearly was designed for more powerful hardware as its slow and laggy running on the g1.

    I would love to see an android phone running with the same CPU and memory specs as the pre.
    Same here. Not to mention there are supposedly going to be what 18 Android based phones by the end of the year in circulation. Motorola, Samsung, HTC, etc all getting in. That's a huge market for developes to tap into, as well as a great wealth of different UI's that will get hacked and find there way onto whatever phone you may carry.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xsecrets View Post
    well palm os is based on linux Just like android, so the base OS is under the GPL license and the source has to be released. The closed part on the pre will be the UI which granted is a bigger portion than on android. All in all android will remain more hackable, but the pre will be second right behind it.

    at any rate things like a new image with a recompiled kernel would be possible on the pre.
    It will be interesting to see what kernal hacks developers provide for the Pre. Android is a much more interest platform from a programmer's perspective though.
  8. #28  
    A friend of ours' son had a G1 and I picked it up and played with it briefly but wasn't too impressed with the hardware. It felt a little too big and clunky for me. The keyboard was OK, but not great. The landscape orientation of the keyboard could make for more comfortable typing, but the keys were a little too flat and having to slide open/closed can be a pain. I'm also not a fan of trackballs; I'd much rather have a D-Pad.

    I also own a Sprint HTC Touch (currently inactive - I've been back on my Treo 700p for a while) and installed Android onto that. I gotta tell you, I really liked the Android experience much better than WinMo in many ways. The problem with this particular hardware/software combo was:
    1) The OS/GUI hack was originally built for a 320x480 screen, so many things didn't fit well initially on the 240x320 HTC Touch screen, though the developer eventually tweaked the build to scale things much better. He also added a virtual keyboard (later to be added by Google officially) but the HTC Touch's smallish screen made virtual keyboard typing more error-prone.

    Getting back to the OS/GUI...I think that Android is more of a modern/multitasking Palm OS than Palm's own webOS is. The OS/GUI is designed to accommodate non-touchscreen input (keyboard and D-Pad or trackball), as well as supporting additional dedicated hard keys for menu. I like the idea of a hard button dedicated to app-specific menus. This was a good thing with the Treo/Palm OS and Palm's decision to drop it in favor of a more iPhone-clone-like experience with the webOS/pre was a mistake, IMO. The pull-down notifications were well implemented. Task switcher was weak, but no reason why this couldn't be improved.

    I think the big missing thing for Andoid is the hardware/software combo. The G1 was just too clunky, IMO. I think they need to come out with two new hardware designs:
    1) A Treo-like device with smallish 320x480 screen, D-Pad, dedicated home and menu button (and perhaps a couple other dedicated hard buttons), and always-exposed keyboard. I'm not aware of any upcoming Android phones with this form-factor/design.
    2) An iPhone-like tablet with large (same size as iPhone's) 320x480 screen, optimized for finger-touching w/virtual keyboard (working in both portrait and landscape modes). It should still have dedicated hard home and menu buttons, and a couple more buttons if possible. This design seems to sort of be the design of several upcoming Android phones, but I think that the physical screen size is going to be smaller than it should be. I think they're also going to have a trackball which I dislike here for two reasons: a) A D-Pad is better than a trackball IMO, and b) A D-Pad/trackball is of limited value in a large-screen finger-focused design. Trying to use it leaves the device top-heavy (it's hard to hold it one-handed and use the D-Pad/trackball). If the screen is big enough (like an iPhone) you're better off leaving this off together and just tapping/navigating with your finger.

    Personally, I'd really like to see more of #1, though. Partially because *everyone's* doing #2 (which is basically trying to out-iPhone the iPhone). There's a lot of value to the tablet-style design, but with Android, they can offer *both* and maintain full software compatibility regardless of the design.
    Last edited by Scott R; 06/18/2009 at 08:09 PM.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  9. #29  
    I recently took my G1 back (14 day trial). I almost kept it with complete satisfaction, but one thing killed it for me. Google made a design decision with Android to make all apps "seem" like they are open all the time. The concept is simple, if the user opens one too many apps and the phone runs out of memory, then the android system kills the least recently used app to free up memory. And the system works just fine...until it kills the dialer and contacts programs.

    That's what I experienced. A call would come in and android would have to kill some apps to start the dialer/contacts back up by which time I had already answered the call (the hardware answer button still works). Then the phone starts ringing when I'm already in the call. So I took it back because it's an Android design problem rather than a G1 problem. Also, why did they choose Java as the base for Android when there were better options? It seems to me that Google has its brightest bulbs working on other projects.

    That being said, my dream phone is a G1 with WebOS. I liked Android well enough but the default build was slow. No problem, load up Cyanogen's build and it's as smooth as an iPhone. I loved the G1 form-factor. Sure it was ugly, but there's no way to get such a magnificent keyboard/scroll wheel without that sort of design.

    I haven't taken the Pre plunge yet for budget reasons, but I have tested it and I'm not so excited about the Pre's keyboard. Of course both are magnitudes more usable than the iPhone's.

    Then there is the open source/hackability issue. Android was/is customizable at the source code level. But if I do that, I can't run paid apps from the Android Market (otherwise I might have fixed the above dialer problem myself). So much for openness. On the flipside, WebOS has an open kernel (Linux) that not many people will have the guts to customize, but the apps are much easier to program. With a sufficiently exposed API and a stable core, any practical developer would choose the closed, but superior core.

    WebOS has a big win set for it simply because the bar for entry is so low and because it offers lots of customizability in the rooting scene. I just hope the WebOS API is sufficiently powerful.
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