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  1. Zyphlin's Avatar
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    #81  
    There's really no reason you couldn't do both from what I gather if you know both the languages. There's nothing stopping people from putting out an app for the iPhone and the Pre. And, already in this short time, the Pre seems to be the first of the "iPhone killers" (I hate that name) that seems to LEGITIMETELY being placed next to it.

    The Storm was a bit of a bust. Android is seen almost as niche developer type thing. The Pre seems to be being looked at by many in the tech field as a legitimate "#2 device". I know on my local radio talk show, which has a huge iPhone fan boy on it (he helped create the Flux Capacitor App and a Card Counting App), has a regular on the show that's a C-Net editor. They were talking about the iphone primarily but when people were asking questions, like multitasking (i think the guy was just begging him to say the Pre without directly saying it) he immedietely brought up the Pre as a usable and workable alternative and was routinely bringing the Pre up into the discussion...more so than I've ever heard him mention an Android phone (he mentions the storm, almost always negatively).

    I think it won't be long till you see apps that end up splitting things, coming out on both platforms.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R View Post
    Well, while I wasn't originally suggesting that the iPhone had a noticeable advantage in terms of usability/efficiency over the pre, I will say now that I disagree with you that it's *significantly* worse. For the most part, I would consider the pre to have a slight usability/efficiency advantage, but not a huge one, with the two devices each having some pros/cons.

    For example, the pre's keyboard has an advantage in some respects, but it also has disadvantages, such as the need to slide it out and the fact that special keys require additional time to find as compared to a virtual keyboard that will show all special symbols.
    Really?

    Let's check the ratio of times that you would need to make a phone call (advantage: Pre) versus the amount of times you need to find a special symbol not pictured on the Pre keyboard to type (advantage: iPhone).

    I'm thinking 200/1...maybe even 400/1? That seems significant to me by any objective definition of the word.

    And I scratch my head that you think sliding out the keyboard is a disadvantage. You see how much screen real estate the iPhone keyboard takes up? THAT is a disadvantage. I mean, you love the size of the iPhone screen so much, but have no problems giving at least half of it (more in landscape) up EVERY time you want to type the smallest thing?
  3. gbp
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    #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Are you going to write games for a platform that has none or for one that has thousands?
    That is a million dollar question. I say get early in the game with Pre, get noticed , rather than one of the thousands in APPLE world.
  4. mike5's Avatar
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    #84  
    Hi Scott R,

    Thanks for your review. I highly recommend you go to a store that doesn't have the phone tied to or anchored to anything. I went to a small non corporate store in off peak hours & was able to play w/the Pre (they had 2 available) for over an hour. They let me change their wall paper, take pictures, download some apps, etc.

    The previous 4 days I was w/a Co-worker who had an iPhone. He demonstrated & let me play w/it for hours. No question the App store is better/more mature & the Pre is playing catch up; I, however, disagree w/your opinion that the Pre "has a cheap feel." I thought & think it feels great & in my hand & for functional one handed purposes, I think its size & weighting is better to the iPhone--but I never operated the Pre w/a security chord attached. I know some of this is personal preference, but I don't think the Pre feels cheap at all.

    As a more mature platform, there is no question the iPhone has some advantages. BUT, I absolutely love the cards/multi tasking as well as the notification method of the Pre. Surprising to me that as long as the iPhone has been around, it hasn't improved these features.

    I, too, come from a Treo 700P. I was concerned about the Pre's keyboard, but like you, I have found I really like the feel & some of the new dedicated keys like the comma & the @ symbol.

    I don't know if the Pre is currently better than an iPhone--probably not--but it has some great features the more mature phone does not have & has lots of potential for future growth. I do hope you get a chance to really handle the Pre in the near future.

    I love mine so far--4 days now. Cheers
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by celsian View Post
    I don't want to pay the extra $50 a month, but if you're a new developer writing software (particularly games) for an OS, are you going to write games for people with common sense? Or games for people that don't have a problem dropping .99 cents here and a dollar 99 there...

    Unfortunately, my apps will receive far more attention from the Apple community than the Palm community not only because there are more Apple users, but because those people don't care about low priced apps. "They're almost free!"

    Once again, definitely NOT an Apple fanboy, but I've got to go where the money is -_-
    I don't get your first paragraph, but if you are only writing games, than I wouldn't be using your software no matter what the cost. I *have* common sense and *will* drop a dollar on a useful app or utility, but I'd rather have *useful* apps rather than games...

    Go ahead and try to find the pot of gold. I have no problem with that, but a developer would be a fool for not exploring the possibilites with WebOS. I'm sure I'll be quite satisifed with "thousands" of apps, rather than "tens of thousands..."
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
    what phone did you come from? i think i'm seeing a trend here - old school 5+ year PalmOS users and BB users on the whole don't like the Pre. but those coming from dumbphones, me too wannabe smartphones, iphones, like the Pre.
    Even if you assume that your ridiculous generalization is true, it would mean that the Pre is perfectly targeted to where the market it...primarily the majority of users out there that have never used a smartphone...seems like a pretty good idea to me...


    I've read this thread with interest. I can attest that ScottR is definitely a old timer! and a valued member of the TC forums here and elsewhere. In fact I'm also a pretty old school Treo user myself having first used the Treo 300 way back in the day (see sig) and having upgraded to various Treo models (currently using Treo 800w). There are couple valid points that Scott makes that I can empathize coming from a previous treo users. One is the front facing thumboard and secondly PalmOS dpad functionality. Both these features in conjunction made palmos Treos/Centros very efficient and usable devices with the ability to make simple keyboard presses to do simple tasks very quickly. In fact, the lack of similar dpad functionality was one of the reason why WM annoyed me so much initially on my Treo 800w. I think anyone who comes from that user perspective can find it awkward and cumbersome to use WebOS interface at first glance. I think like any new platform, you have to use a device for a while to make a proper evaluation. Scott, I think you might want to consider the rumored Eos device with nonslider front facing thumboard. That should be a very interesting device for those who dislike sliders...

    Furthermore, why not consider WM? I know a lot of people scoff at the notion (previous palmos fanboy myself) but there's a lot of stuff in WM that just works and works well. I know its not pretty or flashy, but if its a mature and powerful platform you want with lots of applications, then WM is something you should consider. The main reason why I have hesitated in getting the Pre so far has been the lack of medical applicaitons for WebOS. Once that becomes available, I might consider it...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  7. #87  
    Tell you all the truth, I walked away from a Pre which I had in my hand on launch day.
    Now I am on a waiting list to get one.
    Have read and listened to the forum, want one. I can imagine it will rule. Have always bought ALL Palm devices on day one but the pre. This was after a lousy exp with the 800w.
    All Plam devices evolve over time and become what you want 'em to be.
    Like Gurav, I need medical apps, what made Palm what it used to be.
  8. #88  
    I've been lusting after a Pre for several months. I've read reviews and watched videos. I've held two in my hands, neither tied down, and messed with them for a while.

    I got my hands on a 3G iPhone in the last few days. Compared to the Pre, it just feels more solid and less like a toy. I still think the Pre is pretty cool and WebOS has lots of promise.

    HOWEVER, after reading all the threads here about people having issue after issue after issue after issue I'm pretty certain that I'm going to drop my SERO plan and get the 32GB iPhone 3GS in the next few weeks. Once the Pre matures I'll consider a switch back.
  9. shadrap's Avatar
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    #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by Thudstaff View Post
    I've been lusting after a Pre for several months. I've read reviews and watched videos. I've held two in my hands, neither tied down, and messed with them for a while.

    I got my hands on a 3G iPhone in the last few days. Compared to the Pre, it just feels more solid and less like a toy. I still think the Pre is pretty cool and WebOS has lots of promise.

    HOWEVER, after reading all the threads here about people having issue after issue after issue after issue I'm pretty certain that I'm going to drop my SERO plan and get the 32GB iPhone 3GS in the next few weeks. Once the Pre matures I'll consider a switch back.
    You should wait and read their forums after the release. If the past two iphone launches are any indicator there will be more problems than what you have read here.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadrap View Post
    You should wait and read their forums after the release. If the past two iphone launches are any indicator there will be more problems than what you have read here.
    What's the definitive iPhone forum?

    I agree that there may be problems; however, it is not a first gen unit so I expect the issues will be minimal compared to what I've read about the Pre. I really, really do like the Pre and have been bashing Apple forever and a day but admit the 3G that I messed with last night was pretty freakin' cool and it felt solid.
  11. #91  
    I'm really loving my Pre. I've played around with the iPhone a little, and I don't think I will ever make the switch. I have no hardware issues, and yes there are a few software things I would like to see but I'm confident that Palm is addressing them and will get them fixed soon.

    Thud - For iPhone forums I would try with iLounge.com or Mac Rumors: Apple Mac Rumors and News You Care About
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by farfromit11 View Post
    Thanks!
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R View Post
    it was tethered to the Sprint counter, so I'm not 100% sure about how it would really balance in my hand normally.
    Great Scott!!! How the heck can someone write almost a full page review of the Pre based on using it at the store attached the security tether for 5 minutes? Completely ridiculous!!!

    - How was Synergy, did you like the way i integrated with Gmail and Facebook?

    - How did you like the camera? Pretty cool how it automatically uploads to Facebook and or Photbucket right?

    - Did you test the turn by turn Navigation w/ text to speech? (which is included at no extra charge, try that on the iPhone. I think TomTom is coming out with something someday...free? I don't think so)

    - How was the call quality?

    - Did you try the Stereo Bluetooth?

    Since you are an 'old timer' you should know better. Come back and update us when you have some actual experience with the device.
    Last edited by Wirelessness; 06/14/2009 at 12:26 AM. Reason: typo
    Palm Pre
    (formerly TouchPro, iPhone 3G, Curve, 8800, Treo800p, E61, N9300, Treo 700p ,Treo 600, I500, I330, Treo 300, I300, 6035)
  14.    #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wirelessness View Post
    Great Scott!!! How the heck can someone write almost a full page review of the Pre based on using it at the store attached the security tether for 5 minutes? Completely ridiculous!!!
    As far as the tether is concerned, I pulled out some slack and held it tight with my left hand while using the pre with just my right hand. I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised that I could use the device fairly successfully with one-hand, and one-hand typing was quite good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wirelessness View Post
    - How was Synergy, did you like the way i integrated with Gmail and Facebook?
    I like the idea of Synergy, but I've read mixed reviews on how well it really works. Of course, I could not try this out in a store since I wasn't going to set up my personal email accounts, etc. FWIW, although I do have a gmail account, I never use it because my hotmail account was already well established and distributed by the time gmail went live, so I've been stuck in the '90's using hotmail (and my personal email account set up through my business web site). I'm also a newcomer to Facebook. I set up an account there just about a month ago but never update it...I guess I haven't quote gotten into it. My wife seems addicted to it, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wirelessness View Post
    - How did you like the camera? Pretty cool how it automatically uploads to Facebook and or Photbucket right?
    Tried it out in the store and the pics seemed pretty good. Obviously, there isn't much worth taking a picture of inside of a Sprint store. But I've been following the "post your pre photos" thread here and have been impressed with the results. It doesn't look like it will be as good as the iPhone 3GS's camera based on the samples on Apple's site (sorry). Low-light photos seem better on the 3GS, it has auto-focus, and a neat feature to let you choose what specifically to focus on, not to mention 30fps 640x480 video. Of course, I'll have to wait to see actual results from real users. Ease of uploading photos to Facebook and Photobucket sounds great, but I obviously wouldn't have tried that out in the store for the same reasons mentioned previously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wirelessness View Post
    - Did you test the turn by turn Navigation w/ text to speech? (which is included at no extra charge, try that on the iPhone. I think TomTom is coming out with something someday...free? I don't think so)
    Of course I couldn't try that out in the store very well, so I didn't even bother trying. I was aware of it, though, and it would certainly be a nice out-of-the-box advantage for many people. One could argue, however, that the iPhone approach of *not* bundling a GPS app will result in more choice (TomTom, Garmin, etc.). With the pre, will there be any incentive for TomTom or Garmin to port their app to the pre? If not, I hope that Sprint app is really good, because that's the only choice you'll have. As for me, this has become a non-issue. I just bought a new (used) car with built-in GPS, so I no longer desire a turn-by-turn driving app for whatever phone I'll be using. YMMV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wirelessness View Post
    - How was the call quality?
    I assumed that the demo phones couldn't make calls, but maybe I'm wrong? To a lesser extent, I'd rather not have my personal numbers left in a demo phone's call log. I'd really like to know how the pre's signal strength and call quality compares to my 700p. My wife curses the Treo whenever she calls me from the road, with the voice sounding choppy. I'm not sure if the problem is with her 650, my 700p, or something else, and it may be a defect that has crept into one of the devices (i.e., something broke). I mention this because if I told my wife that I was buying us both new iPhone's, I think she'd be more excited about it than getting two new pre's, because she may have gotten herself thinking that Sprint's coverage and/or Palm devices suck in terms of call quality. I'm reading not-so-good things about signal strength with the pre, so that could indeed be a dealkiller.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wirelessness View Post
    - Did you try the Stereo Bluetooth?
    The 3.0 update brings this to the iPhone as well. FWIW, I could care less about it. I don't want to pay for more expensive headphones and have another thing to have to keep charged. Then there's the issue of interference, etc., so you end up with something that doesn't sound as good as a cheaper tethered headphone anyway.

    Just to provide a couple of quick updates/comments...

    First off, hey Gaurav, nice to see you. We have to catch up off-line.

    Second, I'm very encouraged to read elsewhere that the hacker community has dug into the pre. I was a bit concerned that some of the more technology savvy hackers might not give the pre much attention, but I'm reading about people installing non-approved stuff, which could lead the way to an alternate avenue for developers to install compiled apps onto the platform. Hopefully Palm doesn't try to plug these holes.

    Meanwhile the device has been officially released and Palm has yet to even officially announce when the SDK will be released. That's *not* encouraging.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  15.    #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic View Post
    Scott, I think you might want to consider the rumored Eos device with nonslider front facing thumboard. That should be a very interesting device for those who dislike sliders...
    The mockups I've seen of the Eos still don't have a D-Pad. Honestly, I think I could live with the pre's slider, especially if the alternative was a device with an always-available keyboard but a smaller and/or lower-res screen. The bigger problem from my perspective is the lack of the D-Pad, menu button, etc. (and the UI obviously not being designed to accommodate those things - unlike the Android OS which does have hooks in for a D-Pad, hard menu button, etc.). But obviously if I'm considering an iPhone, I could get past those shortcomings.

    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic View Post
    Furthermore, why not consider WM? I know a lot of people scoff at the notion (previous palmos fanboy myself) but there's a lot of stuff in WM that just works and works well. I know its not pretty or flashy, but if its a mature and powerful platform you want with lots of applications, then WM is something you should consider.
    I've tried it time and again and I'm always left dissapointed. And now it just *feels* old, just like the classic Palm OS feels old. Microsoft is a big company and I think they're finally realizing how they wasted the advantage they *could* have had in this market. Pretty much all of the competition looks better than WM these days. So I expect that they'll try and get something new and exciting out sometime soon. I haven't followed WM 6.5 or 7 closely, so I'm not sure if either of those releases will still fall far short or will be compelling. I should probably read up a bit on both of those.

    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic View Post
    The main reason why I have hesitated in getting the Pre so far has been the lack of medical applicaitons for WebOS. Once that becomes available, I might consider it...
    Can't you run most/all of your old Palm OS medical apps via the Classic emulator for the pre?
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  16. gbp
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    #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic View Post
    Furthermore, why not consider WM? I know a lot of people scoff at the notion (previous palmos fanboy myself) but there's a lot of stuff in WM that just works and works well. I know its not pretty or flashy, but if its a mature and powerful platform you want with lots of applications, then WM is something you should consider. The main reason why I have hesitated in getting the Pre so far has been the lack of medical applicaitons for WebOS. Once that becomes available, I might consider it...

    Agree 100% with you on WinMo. I have a new Pre , but I kept my 800W as a backup. 800W is much better on feature list. I can use it as modem, it has a usb host feature i.e. , you can read external hard drives.... so much so on.

    I am hoping microsoft to make it run faster.

    As for Pre, I guess the old timers will start to rush back once more hacks are found.
    Last edited by gbp; 06/14/2009 at 08:23 AM.
  17. #97  
    Instead of opening up a new thread, i'll just use this one.

    If i was just debating between the iphone 3G and the Pre, then i'd keep the Pre while crossing fingers for bug fixes. The browser on the Pre is speedy and impressive. It makes the iphone 3G a pain to use after using the Pre to be honest.

    But the iphone 3G S promises a faster browser as well as the chip in it will be the same as the Pre's. So before i get sucked in too much on the Pre's speed, i'll check it out. If the new iphone lives up to the speed increases, i'll be getting that instead.

    While the Pre's browsing is superb (with some rendering bugs), you can't save anything nor can you copy n paste. Copy n paste is a hassle in itself. Multitasking and notifications are well done but i can give them up vs what i'm giving up listed under the iphone pros below.. Synergy? I just don't use. Facebook is good for putting photos in contacts but that's about it. I don't use IM and never will unless i have to for work. I could care less about syncing with the cloud.

    So while i'm not 100% yet with going with the new iphone, it would take a pretty good update from Palm or a bad demo with the new iphone in store (the browser better rock). I'd have to pay more to stay with iphone while wife has a Pre but i'm already doing it. (at least she got a free Airave in the process)

    Pros for the new iphone:

    Full search (missing an internet search, but including email & calendar is just better). Doesn't matter where my icons are other than main screen, just start typing. It might include a step before i can start typing, but the Pre requires sliding out the kb..its a wash.

    Video looks easy to do and camera is autofocus on iphone.

    GPS programs should work out of coverage and have more options such as landscape view.

    Iphone is more compatible with accessories.

    For all the crap apps, the iphone already has the casual games i like. Kindle, slingbox, office editing, etc.

    Fully itunes compatible. If that's Palm's method of doing media and they've no intention of doing it better, then may as well stick with the original. Music plays better. And the option is there if i want to download movies or tv shows on it, drm and all.

    Fits in pocket better. I guess thin is where its at. YMMV, but more comfortable to me. Hardware is better quality. Glass is more scratch resistant. No wobblies, usb doors to fool with, or edges and can easily sit in a dock.

    I can type at least 3x faster on iphone. Autocorrect helps a lot and it gets the job done.

    Iphone does voice. Pre, none at all. I need a voice recorder.

    32gb vs 8gb. If i'm doing video recording this comes in very handy.

    I could go on, but not much point in it.

    I can easily see why people love the Pre. Dumbphone owners like the Instinct or ex Treo users are probably blown away with the browser and cards.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by King Mob View Post
    Steve, if you'd had a little time to familiarize yourself with the Pre, some of of your problems would have been ameliorated, I think. For example, you don't have to pull-pinch everything to navigate webpages, double tapping on a spot makes the Pre zoom and resize it to fit the screen. Not flawlessly, but very well.
    Thanks! That works ok most of the time. Is there a way to get the browser to stay at a certain level of zoom when clicking on a link on the same site?
  19. #99  
    Same question... I found it extremely annoying trying to read news articles at my fav news sites, because I had to repeat the same actions every time I went back to the homepage...
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R View Post
    I've been watching the replies so far and haven't been too surprised to see a lot of pre-fans get very defensive about my criticisms. I agree that playing with it for 5 minutes isn't normally enough time to form much of an opinion, so let me address that criticism first. I'm a long-time Palm OS user, long-time treocentral.com member, a "webmaster"/editor/writer of Palm OS-device-focused websites, and a usability-focused snob. You better believe that I've been keeping abreast of all of the pre developments/news for some time now, so when I went to the store today, I pretty much already knew how it was all going to work...I just didn't know for certain how it was all going to "feel."

    Yes, I know that if I owned this device, I could move the web browser to the quick-launch panel. My point was that this should come this way out-of-the-box, as browsing websites is what the pre is especially good at, and with an OS named webOS, you should think they would focus on that, too, no? That critique was not one where I was thinking, "this is a major problem," but rather, "this is rather stupid of them to make me have to go through extra steps/searching to launch the web browser."

    Mikah, I certainly appreciate your critique, as I can see how you might scratch your head wondering that. So, let me clarify...Yes, I'm a long-time Palm OS user, Treo fan, etc. I think the always-available keyboard, D-Pad, and Palm OS usability has been a winning combination. The pre has the keyboard, but I have to slide it down to get to it. There's no D-Pad, which sucks big time, IMO. Usability is on-par between the pre and the iPhone, IMO. So, really, the pre has a slight advantage over the iPhone thanks to the keyboard, but that's it. So that leaves apps. The iPhone has *TONS* of them, the Treo has a ton, too, but being an old device/OS, the iPhone apps developers can do some really impressive things easily. The pre? Apps are rare, and will continue to remain that way for some time (and Palm is lagging here in terms of the SDK/programming options available for regular developers).

    So, mikah, I've got a couple of options. I can stick with an old Treo which has the usability/efficiency/app numbers/choice that I appreciate, but I'm a geek, too, and I've been stuck with my 700p for far too long. I want something new and shiny and I'm willing to give up some of the advantages of my old Treo if there are some new fancy things that make life exciting. From my perspective, my top choices are the pre, an Android phone, or an iPhone. They all have pros/cons. Android still feels like a beta, the 3rd party apps are lacking, and it's a T-Mobile device at this point (which is probably the worst network around me). The pre has a lot of great things about it, but it has a smallish screen and no apps, the latter of which is a huge negative for me.

    The iPhone has its own set of problems, but it's got some nice hardward features (large, high-res screen), and tons and tons of apps. Lots of crap, but numerous good ones, and most of which are low-cost ($5 or less). I love to support the underdog, but I buy Windows PC's because they're the de-facto standard and that's where the 3rd party apps are. Sad to say, but that's where the iPhone is right now. There are *tons* of apps available for it, and the number is going to continue to grow. I sure hope that the pre does well and a year from now I see a lot of apps available for it. Maybe then I will cut short my AT&T contract and get the latest and greatest webOS phone, but right now, I think I want the device that has the best combination of good UI and large app library.
    I have two things to say ( not sure it they have been said yet) but that is where you and I differ, about the apps thing, I have an Ipod touch at first it has the OMG OMG OMG COOL COOL feel but after a few days its gone and 99% of the 50k apps that are in the Itunes App Store or shovel ware. Yeah there are some good ones that are useful everyday like weather ones, and pandora, but oh wait the Pre has those.... And also the "games" literally all have 2 mins on fun value after they become stupid and pointless. So if you want to go that route by all means do. But everyone I know that gets an Iphone plays with it non stop for the first few days, the way any new good phone should be, but after that I rarely see them play or use any apps besides Ipod, Video, Internet, and phone. Of which the Pre has as well. So have fun with your iphones but I promise you this will happen to you to. It may seem tantalizing but thats all it is a trap to get you in and a "net" ( contract) to keep you there. I for one like new hardware and software the Iphone in both departments is 3 years old now yeah some slight upgrades have been made but NOTHING completely new now. Camera still sucks, video is ok, and now finally getting stereo bluetooth... And all from a three year old phone, if apple keeps supporting there phones this way.... yeah have fun... I might get the Iphone 4 if it Revamps the hardware but otherwise the Iphone OS it limited and tied down with not all apps available that could be. Yeah sure jail breaking gives you more but not without the risk of messing EVERYTHING up..... IMO < On the Entire "article"
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