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  1. #21  
    Personally I think you're a bit off base. Many use their Palm's now to do a bit of media. Many people also own multiple media players (hard drive based along with flash players). Many people have music phones with 8gb cards in them that are filled with only media (ie. nothing business related). Many people will be using their phones for business so outside of media there will be business files on there as well (office docs, pdfs, possible work related media and so on).

    Your statement about having the phone in an emergency...if you're in the car you're more than likely to have it charging so you're more than likely not going to have it there for you if you need it. People that will also use it intensively for media or other battery draining features will most likely be carrying a spare battery or constantly charging the phone because they know going in about battery drain and usage.

    My Zune is rarely used for true portable use like my two Sansa's are, and I would stop using one of the Sansa's the moment I got my Pre. One Sansa has 16gb on it and the other 8gb. Both are filled with music, the one having two or three videos.

    Please refrain from making blanket statements assuming how the majority of people will be or should be using their devices. Because more often than not, you will be, and are, wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libb View Post
    The thing is that everybody is comparing the Pre to the iPhone and saying that based on the way people use iPhones, that 8GB will not be enough for Pre users. The problem with that statement is that the Pre is pretty obviously aimed at a different market segment.\
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  2. #22  
    i once was two device person. a treo 270 and an ipod. then i got a treo 600/650/680, and even with its limited memory (2gig sd card at the time), i dumped my ipod to be a one device person. saying i would never be a two device person again. then i got the 16gb ipod touch and relegated the 680 to being just a phone.

    i dont see my self getting rid of the touch once i get the pre, but it depends on how it handles "syncing" video.

    i can go back to 8gb if i wanted to. the 16gb touch is usually just half full anyway.
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    I think people are missing the point. They said there was no room for a microSD card in the CDMA Pre, yet there is room for a SIM card slot on the GSM version. The SIM card slot being roughly the same size as a microSD slot. It wasn't about expectation of one over the other possibly having a card slot. More about debunking the room for a card slot reason.

    true, but if/when the gsm version comes out, there wouldnt be able to put the mini sd card slot in. so basically you have the cdma with it and the gsm without it.

    not to mention palm would have to have two different internals. right now i dont think they have the money for that.
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  4. #24  
    personally I wouldn't care if one had it over the other. The point to the argument was space. Nothing more, nothing less based off of their comment. Many call their reason bullsh*t. Wasn't trying to create this big debate. Just pointing out what their reasoning and finding fault in it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe View Post
    true, but if/when the gsm version comes out, there wouldnt be able to put the mini sd card slot in. so basically you have the cdma with it and the gsm without it.

    not to mention palm would have to have two different internals. right now i dont think they have the money for that.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  5. #25  
    If that's the case, then you wouldn't have any room for anything else. No photos, office files and so on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe View Post
    i can go back to 8gb if i wanted to. the 16gb touch is usually just half full anyway.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    I think people are missing the point. They said there was no room for a microSD card in the CDMA Pre, yet there is room for a SIM card slot on the GSM version. The SIM card slot being roughly the same size as a microSD slot. It wasn't about expectation of one over the other possibly having a card slot. More about debunking the room for a card slot reason.
    The simple reason is probably that there isn't room on the GSM version for the MicroSD. I see Palm wanting to keep the variance between the two to a minimum as it will be easier to support.
  7. #27  
    Ultimately, the proof will be in the pudding: if the Pre sells well enough (say, a few million units in 2009), then the question of whether or not 8GB is enough will be moot. If it doesn't sell quite enough, and if Palm identifies the lack of more storage and/or removable storage as a major reason, then we'll see that resolved in Pre 2. If the Pre sells poorly enough, then Palm will go out of business and we'll all be crying in our soup and then buying iPhones.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    If that's the case, then you wouldn't have any room for anything else. No photos, office files and so on.
    you assume all 8gigs would be transferred over.

    if i could drop a 20 gig ipod and live with a 2gig sd card, i think i could live with with 8 gigs.

    not all the music or videos have to come over.
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  9. #29  
    Libb, I cannot imagine that your negative feelings about device convergence are shared by very many. Same for your statement about media playing being an afterthought (I hope not!) by Palm on the Pre, and this being OK with you. Those ideas are obviously your opinion, but in my opinion they disqualify you from speaking for or giving advice to those considering a pre like you did here: "8GB is more than enough for what 90% of users will use the Pre for."


    Quote Originally Posted by Libb View Post
    The thing is that everybody is comparing the Pre to the iPhone and saying that based on the way people use iPhones, that 8GB will not be enough for Pre users. The problem with that statement is that the Pre is pretty obviously aimed at a different market segment.

    The iPhone, for all it's hyped up "intelligence" and added functionality via the App Store and such, really isn't aimed at traditional smartphone users - it's aimed at consumers who want their media and phone functionality all wrapped into one pretty package - hence A) the time it took to get any enterprise or third-party app development rolled out, B) the lack of power for third-party developers, and C) the pretty hacked together sync with iTunes, which works great for media, but ranges from mediocre to horrendous for PIM syncing.

    The Pre is aimed at true smartphone users (BB, WM, POS, S60, etc.) and dumbphone users who are looking more for business/lifestyle-type use than a media hub, a modern platform that brings together Palm's excellent history with PIM with a modern, extensible platform for third-party apps. The fact is that the media playback functionality on the Pre is an afterthought, and for good reason - despite what Apple wants to happen, the iPhone does not, and will never replace a PMP for most people. Hell, not even the iPod Touch does that for me - I only keep music on my iPod Touch for emergencies when my Zune's batteries die.

    Why do I have multiple devices for music playback? Because A) Apple kindly neglects to mention that the iPhone OS iPod app sucks, especially for use when walking/running and you want to change volume/songs without looking, and B) despite this recent explosion in convergence, there's a major problem with throwing all the functionality you could ever want into a single device - when the device that you listen to music on is the same device you have for making an emergency phone call when your car breaks down, you run the risk of that device not being there when you need it. My iPod Touch is a PDA first, a MID second, and a media player about 3000th.

    Even once I get my Pre, I highly doubt I'll load any music on it - I have no need to, my Zune still works fine, and my iPod Touch will no longer have the PIM responsibilities, so I can repurpose it as a game and movie player. 8GB is more than enough for what 90% of users will use the Pre for. If it isn't enough for you, then either don't get the Pre, get the Pre and a cheap secondary PMP for use on the side, or wait for Palm to announce either a higher-capacity Pre or a more media-focused webOS-based device.
    PalmOS Treos: 90/300/600/650/700/755/launch day Pre minus/ Evo/Epic
  10. #30  
    +1. It just amazes me how people can continue to tell others how they should use their device. This one was worse than one of Mikah's rants in our card slot thread way back when.
    Quote Originally Posted by eekinsman View Post
    Libb, I cannot imagine that your negative feelings about device convergence are shared by very many. Same for your statement about media playing being an afterthought (I hope not!) by Palm on the Pre, and this being OK with you. Those ideas are obviously your opinion, but in my opinion they disqualify you from speaking for or giving advice to those considering a pre like you did here: "8GB is more than enough for what 90% of users will use the Pre for."
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    It just amazes me how people can continue to tell others how they should use their device.
    [insert Apple joke here]

    sorry, had to it was just to easy. I am of course kidding, felt like the thread needed some levity (disclaimer to avoid being pilloried).
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    +1. It just amazes me how people can continue to tell others how they should use their device. This one was worse than one of Mikah's rants in our card slot thread way back when.

    Yeah, you will find a lot of that here.
  13. #33  
    I haven't and don't tell people "how to use their device."

    It's a ridiculous charge. If you want a card slot, yet you buy the Sprint Palm Pre, YOU are telling yourself how to use your device, not me. I have an opinion on what I think is the ideal memory configuration for me and most other people. Guess what...so do you.

    Palm happens to agree with me for the moment regarding the Pre. They disagree with me on several other design aspects of the Pre. I've made my peace with it, and still intend to buy it ASAP if it lives up to the promises in the demonstration vids.

    If that's a dealbreaker, buy another device. No amount of arguing back and forth on this tired argument will change anything. The Pre has onboard memory and no card slot. Period.
  14. #34  
    wake up on the wrong side of the barn this morning? My only point was the demeanor of Libb's post was reminiscent of your posts in the SD card thread. You should do X and shouldn't want Y. You shouldn't use it like this or need it for that. If you want do to this then go buy this. The way those posts are expressed come off nowhere close to that of an opinion. I express my opinion based on my needs. I don't tell others how they should use a device or what they should expect from a device or that they are WRONG for wanting or expecting something to do X, Y or Z. You're also the only one that gloated like a 2yr old with the "I was right, I was right" mentality and even said you would feel some sort of warmth if proven right buy Palm for doing what you said they should have done . I'm sure everyone gets that sense even from your first sentence in the second paragraph above.

    God forbid should someone say I wish it would do this or I'm bummed they left this out without you or Libb (or others) saying they are wrong for wanting it and should go pound sand if you're not happy about it.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  15. Libb's Avatar
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I haven't and don't tell people "how to use their device."

    It's a ridiculous charge. If you want a card slot, yet you buy the Sprint Palm Pre, YOU are telling yourself how to use your device, not me. I have an opinion on what I think is the ideal memory configuration for me and most other people. Guess what...so do you.

    Palm happens to agree with me for the moment regarding the Pre. They disagree with me on several other design aspects of the Pre. I've made my peace with it, and still intend to buy it ASAP if it lives up to the promises in the demonstration vids.

    If that's a dealbreaker, buy another device. No amount of arguing back and forth on this tired argument will change anything. The Pre has onboard memory and no card slot. Period.
    +1

    I'm sorry if I "offended" any of you, but I'm giving you people the way I see it. The fact is that most "musicphones" never even get loaded with music, because people either don't know how to or prefer their secondary PMP. (That's not me assuming, that's my personal experience from asking the hundreds of people I've met that have phones capable of playing music if they use their phone to do so - I've yet to meet a single non-iPhone owner that does so - if I ever meet one of you folks that does, I'll gladly revise/revoke my "blanket" statement.) I personally have never used music playing in any of the phones I've owned (my Samsung A900 and Treo 755p), because I've had far superior devices that I could use instead. Given the choice between a mediocre interface built into my phone or a superb interface in a secondary device, I'll take the latter.

    And while the hardcore users might have a charger in their car, I'm sure a vast majority of users don't - so if their music playing phone eats it right before they break down in the middle of Death Valley, they're SOL. Before the iPhone was officially announced, there were a lot of rumors going around about specs, including the possibility of having two batteries built-in - one for media playing and web browsing, and once that one ran out, you would switch over to the reserve battery and be limited to a low power mode that only allowed calling and texting. I thought that was ingenious, and would have solved the biggest issue I have with "convergence". Never happened though - hey Palm, maybe in Pre2/Post?

    (But maybe I'm just a Luddite - I carry no less than four devices with me at any time - Treo, Zune, iPod Touch, Slacker Portable, and occasionally my PSP - so I use the exact opposite of convergence at the moment, maybe the Pre will convert me. I highly doubt it, but eh.)
    Last edited by Libb; 04/27/2009 at 10:45 AM.
  16. #36  
    Memory on My Smartphone

    Storage Memory is not what I need or what I use.
    Memory is not mathematical.
    Memory is assurance, peace of mind, freedom, confidence.
    Last edited by eekinsman; 04/27/2009 at 03:06 PM.
    PalmOS Treos: 90/300/600/650/700/755/launch day Pre minus/ Evo/Epic
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    wake up on the wrong side of the barn this morning? My only point was the demeanor of Libb's post was reminiscent of your posts in the SD card thread. You should do X and shouldn't want Y. You shouldn't use it like this or need it for that. If you want do to this then go buy this. The way those posts are expressed come off nowhere close to that of an opinion. I express my opinion based on my needs.
    Well, saying that if you want a car to fly, you should just buy a jet ISN'T an opinion. But me saying that I think cars without jet engines and wings work fine for the majority of people is. But neither is a command for you to "use your device" in any particular manner. For one, the Pre isn't ANYONE's device right now, so anything I say pertaining to it has nothing to do with how you should use a device you or I own.

    I don't tell others how they should use a device or what they should expect from a device or that they are WRONG for wanting or expecting something to do X, Y or Z.
    Where is this "You're wrong for wanting a SD slot" rant I've made? I think Palm is right for not including one on the Sprint Pre. I think it would be wrong OF PALM to include one (at the expense of 8GB or more of onboard memory) on their first (and maybe last) shot at getting back in the game. That's not the same thing.

    You're also the only one that gloated like a 2yr old with the "I was right, I was right" mentality and even said you would feel some sort of warmth if proven right buy Palm for doing what you said they should have done . I'm sure everyone gets that sense even from your first sentence in the second paragraph above.
    No, what I said was that I feel that Palm's success in the market in the short-term would vindicate that decision. If they fail or the Pre just does ok and the lack of an SD slot proves to be a factor...then Palm will have been very wrong, and so will I. I'm confident that won't happen, but it;s certainly possible.

    God forbid should someone say I wish it would do this or I'm bummed they left this out without you or Libb (or others) saying they are wrong for wanting it and should go pound sand if you're not happy about it.
    Again, I said no such thing. But this discussion has been raised, what, 30-40 times here? There's nothing new being said. We poo-poo on other people making repetitive threads for announcements or Sprint Now commercials, but we should just sit by and enjoy it when new threads are created that offer NOTHING new in addition to the last "no microSD slot" thread? That seems unfair to me. I mean, I think that first Sprint/Palm Webinar blew bigtime. But if I started a thread on it every couple of days or so, who here wouldn't be annoyed by that? We get it. Let's move on. That's not being a thread cop or fake admin. That's just common sense to me. Or else...why even have mods or combine threads?
  18. hkklife's Avatar
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    #38  
    Think of what Palm is comprised of nowadays:

    -Arrogant/underperforming Palm engineers (over a decade of releasing constantly under-spec'd, crippled devices, usually due to trying to save a few pennies)

    &

    -Ex-Apple staffers (intentionally crippled, feature-deficient devices smartly marketed to appear slim, sleek, "hip" and force you into buying the next year's slightly upgraded model

    The fact that the Pre omits features seen for years (video recording, IR, app buttons, removable memory card slot) and taken for granted on even the crustiest Palm OS-based Treos should not come as a surprise to anyone.

    Regarding the lack of a microSD slot, Palm should have been more forthcoming and stated that a larger capacity Pre would be eventually forthcoming and/or a future model may include a microSDHC slot. They should have at least acknowledged their fan base's intelligence and varied uses & lifestyles (some users need as much storage space as possible for media files) and not arrogantly used a lame excuse like "it wouldn't fit" and "8GB is more than anything else out there right now" or "we are saving the customer the aggravatopn of having to run out and buy a $50 8GB card at the time of purchasing the Pre". Of course, when I told the Palm rep @ CES that I had bought 2x16gb SDHC cards (fullsize, but still) for $30 each several months prior, 8gb microSDHC cards were nowhere near $50 (about $25 at the time) and 16gb microSDHC cards were already on the market, I was completely ignored and the guy walked away.

    At of right now, Palm will continue to lag behind Apple in sheer storage capacity and that speaks volumes to a fairly substantial chunk of media-savvy consumers who use their mobile device as their primary music/video player.
    Last edited by hkklife; 04/27/2009 at 11:23 AM.
    Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Verizon Treo 700P-->Verizon Treo 755p-->Verizon Motorola Droid + Verizon Centro--> Verizon Motorola Droid X + Palm TX-->Verizon Droid Bionic + Palm TX
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by hkklife View Post
    Regarding the lack of a microSD slot, Palm should have been more forthcoming and stated that a larger capacity Pre would be eventually forthcoming and/or a future model may include a microSDHC slot.
    One minor quibble, though I agree with many of your points. If they announced another device with more capacity before they launch the original device, people might hold out for the better device in sufficient numbers to prevent that second device from ever being made. This is the same reason that they have yet to announce there will even be a GSM release in the US, only that it will be coming abroad at some undisclosed point. Given Palm's economic state, they can't really afford people saying, I will just wait for the next one.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by prereferee View Post
    .... If they announced another device with more capacity before they launch the original device, people might hold out for the better device in sufficient numbers to prevent that second device from ever being made. ..... they can't really afford people saying, I will just wait for the next one.
    I guess I'm one of those folks they can't afford. I've been out of contract for almost a year, and I like most of what I see in the Pre, but I think I will wait for a 2nd gen to see whether it is offered with removable memory. If it turns out that a 2nd gen model is never released, then maybe it will be better that I never bought the last product from a dying company. I just hope that's not the case and that Sprint/Palm do very well with a variety of new WebOS devices, at least one of which meets my needs and desires.
    Dr J

    Palm III --> Palm m500 --> Treo 600 --> Treo 650 (2 days!) --> Treo 700p --> Treo 755p (Sprint)
    KayPro II --> IBM Portable --> Mac SE --> Mac Performa 6115CD --> Mac PPC 6500 --> Mac G4 (Yosemite) --> iMac G5 20
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