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  1.    #1  
    This probably won't work, but let's give this a shot. I'd like to have a constructive comparison about the pros/cons of the Pre as compared the iPhone (with 3.0 the software update). As a long-time Palm OS Garnet user who wants to get a new phone soon to satisfy my gadget lust, I've been thinking about this a lot. I know that many of my fellow Palm OS users here are as well, and I'm sure there are iPhone users who will be approaching the end of their 2-year commitment who will be taking a close look at the Pre.

    It would be great if we could avoid getting side-tracked with discussions about who is copying who (in terms of the overall device or OS/GUI design, or in terms of certain features). Those things may be important to fanboys, but for someone looking to buy a device and wanting the best device for their wants/needs, who really cares?

    Anyways, I'll get this started and if this thread takes off successfully, I'll also try to update the original post to keep the chart updated with pros/cons that others add. Of course, I have final decision in whether something "makes the list" in the original post, but I'll try to wield this power wisely.

    3rd party apps
    iPhone:
    - 15,000 apps available
    - Optimized/compiled apps
    - Some apps not allowed by Apple
    - Only distributable via Apple's store
    - Typical app pricing: Freeware, 99 cent, and sub-$5 apps very common

    Pre:
    - Device not out yet, so number of 3rd party apps at launch unknown
    - More complex apps may be difficult and/or slow due to JavaScript-based model
    - Apps will need to be certified/tested by Palm, but otherwise anything goes
    - Distributable via Pre store or any other method developer chooses
    - Typical app pricing: TBDTBDTBD

    Screen
    iPhone: 3.5", 480x320", multi-touch
    Pre: 3.1", 480x320", multi-touch

    Keyboard
    iPhone: Virtual on-screen keyboard - portrait and landscape supported
    Pre: Slide-down physical keyboard - portrait-mode only

    Battery
    iPhone: Non-removable, 1150 mAh
    Pre: Removable, 1150 mAh

    Storage
    iPhone: Non-expandable: 8GB or 16GB, 3rd party USB transfer support (requires special app running on PC/Mac)
    Pre: Non-expandable: 8GB, USB transfer support

    Multitasking / App wake-up alerts
    iPhone: Alerts (e.g., allows for instant messaging apps to be notified/started)
    Pre: Full multitasking support

    Camera
    iPhone: 2 megapixels
    Pre: 3 megapixels w/LED flash
    ** Note: More megapixels do not necessarily mean better quality - PQ superiority will need to be determined once Pre is released

    GPS Navigation
    iPhone: 3rd party support (pricing TBDTBDTBD)
    Pre: Bundled Sprint Telenav expected (possibly included as part of Sprint "Everything" plans)

    Availability
    iPhone: AT&T exclusivity in USA, other GSM carriers worldwide
    Pre: Sprint exclusivity in USA, other GSM carriers worldwide, release expected to be before 6/30

    Price
    iPhone:
    - $199 (8GB), $299 (16GB)
    - Starting at $70/month voice/data plan w/450 minutes, unlimited data (+$20 for unlimited SMS)

    Pre:
    - price TBDTBDTBD
    - Starting at $70/month "Everything Data" plan w/450 minutes, unlimited data and SMS*
    * Availability w/older grandfathered plans (e.g., old SERO plan) TBDTBDTBD

    Dimensions
    iPhone:
    - 4.5" H x 2.4" W x 0.48" D
    - 4.7 oz

    Pre:
    - 3.9" H x 2.3" W x 0.67" D
    - 4.76 oz

    Accessories
    iPhone: Countless options, including cases, clock radios, etc.
    Pre: Touchstone charger by Palm, other 3rd party accessories (e.g., sync cables) likely at launch, but will be tough to catch up to Apple
    Last edited by Scott R; 03/25/2009 at 02:52 PM.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  2. #2  
    Pre battery: 1150 mAh
    3G battery: 1150 mAh
    Original iPhone battery: 1400 mAh

    (Had to Google the iPhone ones, but a few sites gave the same numbers).
  3.    #3  
    Wow, Apple decreased the battery size (and by nearly 20%) with the 3G? That's odd. I've updated my original post with these numbers. Thanks!
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  4. #4  
    I won't add much but i'll be serious.

    In the apps, perhaps saying you're stuck with the app store for apple. Palm will allow its apps to be accessed from stores other than its own. Both have on phone app stores.

    And i honestly do feel the sheer volume of apps in the apple store can be difficult to sift through and that a lot of apps are hit n miss, throwaway, or duplicates (one free..one paid version) Apple of course is ever improving ways to access apps and how the reviews are done but could be better.

    The subscription thing may be unique to apple's apps.

    And of course, we've really not much of an idea how the palm store will be, if prices will be similar, try before you buy, etc. I wouldn't assume lower quality apps just yet. Lot of unknowns with palm right now.
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    In the apps, perhaps saying you're stuck with the app store for apple. Palm will allow its apps to be accessed from stores other than its own. Both have on phone app stores.
    Done.

    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    And i honestly do feel the sheer volume of apps in the apple store can be difficult to sift through and that a lot of apps are hit n miss, throwaway, or duplicates (one free..one paid version) Apple of course is ever improving ways to access apps and how the reviews are done but could be better.
    While I agree that having tons of apps makes things harder to find, what's the alternative? For them to limit the number of apps? We certainly don't want them to do that, do we?

    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    And of course, we've really not much of an idea how the palm store will be, if prices will be similar, try before you buy, etc. I wouldn't assume lower quality apps just yet. Lot of unknowns with palm right now.
    I also added some notes about app pricing. Currently, this is a big advantage of the iPhone (as compared to Palm OS Garnet). 99 cent and sub-$5 apps are common, whereas with Palm OS Garnet, $15 apps are more common. It will be interesting (and important) to see where Pre app prices trend. Ultimately, this will be up to the individual developer, though (as it should be).
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  6. #6  
    will be interesting to see how long this remains constructive. Not that the Pre will continue the trend, but PalmOS had a lot of free apps that were actually useful and/or just full fledged apps that rivaled some commercial ones that cost $15-30. I wonder if that will continue with the Pre.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  7. #7  
    While I agree that having tons of apps makes things harder to find, what's the alternative? For them to limit the number of apps? We certainly don't want them to do that, do we?
    I didn't mean limit. But sort em. I'm more interested in so called premium apps. Can you even sort by highest cost, lowest cost, last week, last month, etc? Looking at top 25 is usually a waste of time. Newest? (when released or updated?). Then there's staff favorites (a waste of space) and featured (whatever that means).

    25k apps and i see top 25 which usually means volume downloaded and indicates free or 99 cents. Which in itself implies low quality throwaway unless its an app like facebook or kindle.

    25k apps (channels) and nothing on hardly. In the past few months the only app that's made it on my phone is the Kindle one. That's only because i heard about it on cnet or engadget. Had to do a search to find it in the app store.

    Now you say Palm has zero apps so far and that's correct because they've not announced any. What i'm comparing is number of USEFUL apps each has. Out of those 25k, i use a handful (10 on the phone). Palm, i'm sure, will have that many for me that i consider useful. And so my experience doesn't change and its a wash.

    What we do know is some of the names palm has lined up. Docs to go? Its definitely a must. Bejeweled? Likewise..who hasn't had that game? Facebook? Kindle? Pandora? Sure, i would get those. Throw in a few more games (chess, poker, etc) along with some other popular apps and i'm good to go.

    The apps i want haven't arrived at Apple besides Kindle. Docs to go, slingbox, money or quicken, pdanet, etc. Apple lacks these as much as webOS lacks em right now.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    25k apps and i see top 25 which usually means volume downloaded and indicates free or 99 cents. Which in itself implies low quality throwaway unless its an app like facebook or kindle.
    With 30 million units out there, a 99 cent app in the top 25 is at least making tens of thousands of dollars a year. It might even motivate a developer to make something useful.
  9. #9  
    Good luck with that. A developer is extremely lucky to break that barrier and has no real control. If he does, it's usually short lived. That's if apple approves it.

    As much as i hate to sift through the junk, i'd probably hate being a developer even more. Trying to stand out among 25k trash apps when apple doesn't give you any marketing control doesn't seem like fun.

    If i was a developer, i'd look at webOS in the future. More options & control. Less competition.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R View Post
    Done.

    99 cent and sub-$5 apps are common, whereas with Palm OS Garnet, $15 apps are more common. It will be interesting (and important) to see where Pre app prices trend. Ultimately, this will be up to the individual developer, though (as it should be).
    There are thousands of FREE palm apps available, so this point doesn't seem to fly. Aside fromt that, most of the 99 cent apps for the iPhone seem to be fart apps and the like, rather than anything truly useful.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by StatCoder View Post
    With 30 million units out there, a 99 cent app in the top 25 is at least making tens of thousands of dollars a year. It might even motivate a developer to make something useful.
    But it doesn't make it easy for users to find what they're looking for. Apple needs to do a much better job categorizing the apps to make the store really useful for someone who wants to use their iPhone for more than a toy.
    Last edited by meyerweb; 03/19/2009 at 08:50 AM.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  12. wmicke's Avatar
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    #12  
    Camera: The Pre camera, I read that it was actually a 3.2 MP autofocusing camera w/ built in software image processing. VS. the iPhone which is a 2 MP fixed focus camera w/o any image processing built in (although there might be some apps to support this available via the app store).

    Storage: It might be worth noting that the Pre supports USB mass storage mode, making it very easy to upload & download files (apps, videos, music, etc) through a plug 'n play / drag 'n drop interface on just about any computer VS. the iPhone which only allows syncing of data via iTunes.

    Search: Universal Search on the Pre automatically searches contacts, on board apps & media, and then automatically widens the search (if no match has been found) to the internet w/ choices of Google, Google Maps, and Wikipedia (and Palm has already confirmed that they are already working on adding more choices to the list if users want them... although no word on if those choices will be in place before launch) VS. iPhone "spotlight" which allows users to search contacts and on board media only (if anyone has a different read on the iPhone 3.0 OS, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)... widening your search to the internet still requires opening a Mobile Safari page.

    Contact integration: Synergy! What more do I need to say? Okay, seriously, the Pre uses the Synergy system to seamlessly integrate contact info AND calenders from multiple sources (at launch it will support contact info from Outlook/MS Exchange, GMail, and Facebook BUT once again Palm has already indicated that they're already working on adding more choices later) with the added ability to automatically detect and strip away duplicate entries if the same data is present in more than one location. If changes are made to any of the info (via the internet), the Pre will automatically sync via the cloud and update the info as well. VS. The iPhone has limited contact integration via Outlook/MS Exchange and MobileMe but from everything I've read, it doesn't even come close to the Pre as far as integration much less the ability to automatically weed out duplicate entries.

    Battery/Power Options:
    The only thing I want to add here, is that since the Pre has a removable battery, the option exists to purchase aftermarket batteries w/ greater storage (since I think the Pre uses the same battery as the Treo there should be an aftermarket 1350 MaH battery available). VS. iPhone removable/replaceable battery? Huh? ALSO it's worth mentioning (although maybe I should have made this a separate entry) that the Pre has the Touchstone, allowing for wireless inductive charging of the battery w/o the need to plug in directly to a charger. I think that is a VERY nice option for charging and will probably sell quite well.

    Gesture Area:
    The Pre has the built in off screen "gesture area" allowing you to control and manipulate apps via off-screen gestures so that your hands don't need to get in the way of your ability to see your app. VS. iPhone all apps are manipulated directly onscreen.

    Wave Dock: When viewing full-screen apps/media, a Pre user has the ability to pull up the "wave dock" from the "gesture area" and launch new applications w/o exiting the first application. VS. iPhone. Not only does the iPhone have nothing like the "wave dock" but since it doesn't support multitasking you will need to exit your app before you can launch a separate application.

    GPS Navigation: The Pre will come with Turn-By-Turn GPS via Sprint's Telenav built in at launch. VS. iPhone Which finally added Turn-By-Turn support in OS 3.0 and I assume Turn-By-Turn apps will be available when OS 3.0 is launched sometime this summer. However you will still need to BUY those Turn-By-Turn navigation apps, since they won't come preloaded from Apple or AT&T.

    I'm sure there are more differences, but those are the big ones that I can think of off the top of my head.
    Last edited by WMicke; 03/19/2009 at 11:26 AM.
  13. #13  
    On the screen, I think it should be noted that both have the same 480x320 resolutions.

    Additionally, on multi-tasking, iPhone's new alert system should be noted as a mitigation, since that is a good chunk of why you want multi-tasking in the first place (though certainly not all of it).
  14. #14  
    someone mentioned pandora as if it wasn't on the iphone. pandora works great on iphone.

    I think the OP's post is sober. There is not need to respond by spinning here. we are seeking and exchanging information, not sales pitches.
  15. Zyphlin's Avatar
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    #15  
    Simply put Cardfan...

    25,000 apps IS a plus for the majority of people any way you cut it. I have no doubt that if somehow this was reversed and apple was coming out you'd be going on about how many great apps Palm has as a bonus. Look at these forums for the people clamoring about losing "thousands of palm os apps"...most of which are also useless and are even HARDER to shift through then Apples.

    It may be a negative to you, and so be it, but in a general sense having 25,000 apps available to choose from IS A BONUS over having a small amount at first.

    After a year, this may matter less, but as of now it IS a bonus for the iPhone.
  16. Zyphlin's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    On the screen, I think it should be noted that both have the same 480x320 resolutions.

    Additionally, on multi-tasking, iPhone's new alert system should be noted as a mitigation, since that is a good chunk of why you want multi-tasking in the first place (though certainly not all of it).
    I don't think it mitigates it and I think its bad to assume in things like this. Frankly put, it is not multitasking. Its just not. You can say that apparently IM is a "good chunk" of why you want multitasking but without anything to back it up its horribly anecdotal. I know from my experience it is one of numerous reasons I like using a multitasking phone.

    Its pseudo multi-tasking at best.
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I didn't mean limit. But sort em.
    I'm not familiar enough with the Apple store to know what you can/cannot do. It does sound like it needs better categorization/search capabilities. I do believe that I read recently that Apple recently allowed an app to be approved which allowed for different sorting/searching capabilities of the Apple store, so we may see this need met with 3rd party apps.

    At this point, we don't know what Palm's store will look like.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Simply put Cardfan...

    25,000 apps IS a plus for the majority of people any way you cut it. I have no doubt that if somehow this was reversed and apple was coming out you'd be going on about how many great apps Palm has as a bonus. Look at these forums for the people clamoring about losing "thousands of palm os apps"...most of which are also useless and are even HARDER to shift through then Apples.

    It may be a negative to you, and so be it, but in a general sense having 25,000 apps available to choose from IS A BONUS over having a small amount at first.

    After a year, this may matter less, but as of now it IS a bonus for the iPhone.
    Well i personally disagree, but that's ok. If i'm considering users overall, i agree though. And i should be considering overall and not just personal.

    Back to the OP. Let's be consistent and use strict criteria then. 15k apps for apple. Only available on app store. You don't really need anything else or it starts getting subjective and opinionated. For palm, all you can say is names were listed as partners, apps tbdtbdtbd, $available$ $from$ $other$ $sources$ $online$ $as$ $well$ $as$ $the$ $Pre$ $App$ $catalog$.
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    On the screen, I think it should be noted that both have the same 480x320 resolutions.
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Additionally, on multi-tasking, iPhone's new alert system should be noted as a mitigation, since that is a good chunk of why you want multi-tasking in the first place (though certainly not all of it).
    I agree and I just added this. I tried to be careful about how to word things so as to indicate that the Pre offers "true multitasking" but I wasn't certain how best to state the usefulness of the iPhone's capability, so if anyone has better suggestions feel free to offer them up, but let's not get too nitpicky as this topic can easily turn into a heated argument.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R View Post
    I'm not familiar enough with the Apple store to know what you can/cannot do. It does sound like it needs better categorization/search capabilities. I do believe that I read recently that Apple recently allowed an app to be approved which allowed for different sorting/searching capabilities of the Apple store, so we may see this need met with 3rd party apps.

    At this point, we don't know what Palm's store will look like.
    The Secret to Apple's Crap Store...I mean App Store is to read reviews of apps on other sites first. That way you can just go into the app store and search for the app you want, buy it, and move on.
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