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  1. DHart's Avatar
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    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowhawk View Post
    Hey there,

    I've pretty much stopped my mad daily hunt for Pre news, but what I remember from when I *was* obsessed with it is that whenever anyone at Palm mentioned the camera, they very consistently claimed that it had "extended depth of field". I always had the feeling that that was some made-up term...but then I'm not a photographer of any stripe...

    But, if, as you say, Bob, that most cell phone cameras go from 3 feet to infinity, what could "extended depth of field" possibly mean, 1 foot to infinity?

    Freakin' marketing spinners...
    :-P
    Well, Shadowhawk. You're right. You're not a photographer. I agree with Meyerweb's assessment - especially the part about salad dressing and wing sauce.

    Regarding the extended depth of field, this concept is easy to demonstrate. Look in photo oriented magazines - Nat Geo for instance. You will see photos taken with wide angle lenses where everything in the pic is in focus - both close and far away. You will also see photos taken with telephoto lenses where just specific parts of the pic are in focus and all other parts are not. Photographers select the focal length lens to produce the effect they want.

    So the very short focal length of phone camera lenses by definition render all parts of the picture in focus from a point very close to the lens. I don't see market spin here at all - unless you are refering to the manufacturers who blather about auto focus. At this point in the evolution of phone cameras, it's a non-issue.
  2. #62  
    Hey Dhart. No need to take a shot at shadowhawk, and then ramble on needlessly like he needed to be corrected. He wasn't wrong in what he said. All cameras in phones (and pretty much all fixed focus lenses in general) tend to have a short focal length so there is a deep field depth. So one would already expect the Pre to have a rather extended depth of field by nature. No one is using a cameraphone and expecting nice bokeh in their shots. So if you can already expect to have things in focus from a certain point and beyond, what exactly is "extended depth of field" supposed to mean? Relative to what? There just isn't an explanation of what that feature is and its related benefit. So at the moment he would be correct in saying it seems like marketing spin.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I know we'll debate at length of iphone vs pre. But part of me wonders if its not a bit misguided. The iphone and its users isn't the pool that Palm is most likely to draw from. It's the other smartphones that are vulnerable.
    I'd be curious which smartphones you're considering here. I agree that the iPhone market won't be impacted much by the Pre (for a lot of reasons). I also think the core of the Blackberry community is equally Pre-proof. Windows Mobile seems vulnerable, especially if the Pre's feature set can come close to matching WM's out of the box or shorty thereafter. Do you think the Pre can make headway against Symbian (Nokia)? I'm less familiar with their market.
  4. DHart's Avatar
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    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    Hey Dhart. No need to take a shot at shadowhawk, and then ramble on needlessly like he needed to be corrected. He wasn't wrong in what he said. All cameras in phones (and pretty much all fixed focus lenses in general) tend to have a short focal length so there is a deep field depth. So one would already expect the Pre to have a rather extended depth of field by nature. No one is using a cameraphone and expecting nice bokeh in their shots. So if you can already expect to have things in focus from a certain point and beyond, what exactly is "extended depth of field" supposed to mean? Relative to what? There just isn't an explanation of what that feature is and its related benefit. So at the moment he would be correct in saying it seems like marketing spin.

    Sorry, Shadowhawk. I didn't intend that to be a "shot". And I don't mean to take a shot at you either crogs.

    Shadowhawk took a shot at Palm calling their extended depth of field statement "spin marketing". I was just disagreeing that it was spin. It is in fact a true statement. You said it yourself. Short focal length fixed focus lenses have deep (extended) depth of field.

    Relative to what? The "normal" focal length lenses that are common on most cameras. Most people have traditionally thought of 50mm as a "normal" lens in the 35 mm format. These have a shorter depth of field than the short lenses on cameras. Although "normal" has changed recently with most cameras having wide to telephoto zoom lenses.
  5. #65  
    but we're not talking cameras. we're talking cameras on phones which has been a feature for years now. fixed focus with lots of depth of field. So yes it is spin marketing because how is this 'increased depth of field' different than other cameras on phones. If you're not comparing apples to apples then they are spinning it.

    Since there is no real description of what this 'feature' is, we're really just speculating.
  6. DHart's Avatar
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    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    but we're not talking cameras. we're talking cameras on phones which has been a feature for years now. fixed focus with lots of depth of field. So yes it is spin marketing because how is this 'increased depth of field' different than other cameras on phones. If you're not comparing apples to apples then they are spinning it.

    Since there is no real description of what this 'feature' is, we're really just speculating.
    OK - you're right. I give. This is not worth arguing over.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    I'd be curious which smartphones you're considering here. I agree that the iPhone market won't be impacted much by the Pre (for a lot of reasons). I also think the core of the Blackberry community is equally Pre-proof. Windows Mobile seems vulnerable, especially if the Pre's feature set can come close to matching WM's out of the box or shorty thereafter. Do you think the Pre can make headway against Symbian (Nokia)? I'm less familiar with their market.
    I'm not that familiar with Nokia or foreign markets so i'll leave it alone.

    Primarily i meant WM, RIM, and to an extent android in the US. These are the ones the Pre can compete with for various reasons. I think apps will develop quickly for webOS. Assuming the OS performs as we're led to believe. It's got to be enticing to developers who can write for it more easily, get in on the ground floor so to speak and not get lost in the sea of competitors swarming the apple store. Most polls show webOS a solid second place in terms of what people are excited about.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    but we're not talking cameras. we're talking cameras on phones which has been a feature for years now. fixed focus with lots of depth of field. So yes it is spin marketing because how is this 'increased depth of field' different than other cameras on phones. If you're not comparing apples to apples then they are spinning it.

    Since there is no real description of what this 'feature' is, we're really just speculating.
    A little illumination from this article:

    First of all, the extended depth of field that was touted by Palm will provide us with great close-ups and macro shots showing the extra details of such pictures.
  9. #69  
    ahh. so it's just a reduction in the minimum focusing distance. I think I would've touted some of the other on the fly processing features or at least expanded the features of the camera besides the EDoF. That article sells it more than Palm probably will. I actually read it before, but it was more of a glancing read.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  10. #70  
    Written out a long post but didnt process so cbf again

    Basically the jist of my post was that iphone has apps that use usb for file transfer: fileAid+diskaid
  11. #71  
    Wow..a lot of posts about a camera. I did notice 30fps under video on the leaked roadmap thingy from Sprint which indicates it might have video recording.

    Exclusive: Sprint 2009 Roadmap | PhoneNews.com

    That was removed at sprint's request, which makes it legit IMO.

    Here it is though its old news..http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2009/03/...r-q1-q3-leaks/

    BTW..if not for the Pre..Sprint's other upcoming smartphones look blaaa
    Last edited by cardfan; 03/25/2009 at 07:24 AM.
  12. #72  
    I dunno...between that new Blackberry Niagra and the giant-screened HTC WinMo QWERTY slider, they should be ok. I have no interest in either of those, but lots of people do.
  13.    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyannon View Post
    Basically the jist of my post was that iphone has apps that use usb for file transfer: fileAid+diskaid
    Thanks. Some (like myself) may argue that the need for a special app on the PC/Mac (in this case, DiskAid) makes this a less than perfect solution. Nevertheless, I'll note in the original post that there are some similar solutions for the iPhone as well. For anyone interested, it looks like several of these apps also allow for sending files to/from an iPhone using WiFi.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R View Post
    Thanks. Some (like myself) may argue that the need for a special app on the PC/Mac (in this case, DiskAid) makes this a less than perfect solution. Nevertheless, I'll note in the original post that there are some similar solutions for the iPhone as well. For anyone interested, it looks like several of these apps also allow for sending files to/from an iPhone using WiFi.
    there is one for the iPhone but what do you do with a file on the iphone once you get it there? its not as though you can attach it to an email? or edit it in word.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbmgreen View Post
    there is one for the iPhone but what do you do with a file on the iphone once you get it there? its not as though you can attach it to an email? or edit it in word.
    Yes, you can email documents using some of these programs. I use MobileFiles Pro and I email documents all the time. You can edit Excel spreadsheets but not Word files with this app. I think there are a few apps that allow you to edit Word files.

    I keep waiting for Docs to Go to be released.
    Sprint 600 - 650 - 755 - Mogul - 700Wx - Centro - 800W & iPhone
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowhawk View Post
    From the reading I did at The iPhone Blog on the Spotlight search, while it doesn't mention the available widening of the search to the Web, the iPhone 3.0 feature will actually search onboard email (to some extent...I can't remember, maybe it's just From and Subject) and (if I remember correctly) SMS.

    Compare this with Palm's silence with regard to whether their search will search email and SMS at all. In the same spirit of silence=lack, I think I'd have to call the Spotlight vs. Pre search comparison a draw, with each one having a cool benefit that the other doesn't.

    ...'cause, while being able to initiate a Web search by just typing is cool, it seems just as common if not more that I'd want to search SMSs and my onboard email.
    So Dieter's video from CTIA today (April 1) appears to corroborate my impression that the Universal search will not be as universal as the iPhone 3.0's Spotlight search. Watch Dieter's video from about 8:48: http://www.precentral.net/palm-pre-3...eo-walkthrough

    Quotes of note:
    • "It will search applications that we've exposed...that you can actually get into the contents..."
    • "...email headers, I don't have an answer for you on."
    • "We've focused on contacts and applications, and we've been expanding that as we go."

    Disheartening, maybe, but that last quote offers some hope.

    What I remember reading of the iPhone 3.0 OS is that it should search email (to a limited extent, maybe just headers...) and SMS.

    On the other hand, for the Pre's Universal Search, I think we can conclude form this video that, as of the time of this recording, email headers are not part of the Universal search. And no mention at all is made of searching SMS, but it sounds like it should be counted out for the moment also.

    Either or both or even way more *may*, however, be included as they hopefully continue to expand what applications and application contents get exposed to the Universal Search.

    Here's hoping...
  17. #77  
    Iphone has voice recognition for browsing which is very nice feature.
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