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  1.    #1  
    This is somewhat off topic, but I thought I would share something I've noticed recently. The most popular Palm news sites seem to be ignoring the recent market data that shows PocketPC devices rapidly gaining market share on Palm and Handspring. It's funny because every quarter, sites like Palminfocenter, Palmstation, and Palmgear, would cheer as market data was released showing Palm with the lions share and Handspring coming in second, as PocketPC stagnated at under 6%. HA HA HA HA!

    Now, suddenly as the tables have turned (PocketPC gaining on Palm), these same sites are all dead silent on this subject. Most haven't even posted a news article regarding last quarters results. I'm only mentioning this because it is the first time, EVER, Palm fan sites have not released market numbers. It's practically a tradition! So where have all the news hounds gone? I don't hear any laughter?

    Sorry to go off topic, but I just couldn't let this go by unnoticed
  2. #2  
    I really doubt that Palm will survive the next 2 years.

    I was looking for informations about PocketPCs the last weeks.
    The difference between Palm and Microsoft: Microsoft DOES improve it's platform and OS. And at a reasonable high speed.
    With "Merlin" (that should be CE 3.5) they will only support StrongARMs, which means they have only one (the most powerful) processor left. That's much easier for customers and developers.
    A new Toshiba is coming: 206Mhz, 16bit, 17,5 mm thick, ..., and one version with a 1 GB Microdrive
    And and and...

    If we don't get the StrongARM powered Palm devices soon, Palm will loose the competition.
  3.    #3  
    I think Palm's greatest mistake (and Handspring's) was that they wrote off Microsoft. Palm believed PPC would fail, and that gave them a false sense of security. They also overestimated the "Keep it simple" philosophy. Palm didn't believe that consumers wanted high resolution color displays, digital audio, multi-tasking or expansion. It was a market correction waiting to happen. Now Palm's market share is dwindling fast while PocketPC is growing at a staggering rate.

    I'm worried for Palm's future, but at the same time I find it hard to feel sympathy. I've been saying this would happen since last year when I first started using PocketPC devices. Hate to say I told you so, but.....
    Last edited by foo fighter; 08/11/2001 at 05:27 PM.
  4. #4  
    Well, it's true, I think they are scared of pocket pc, but I don't think palmOS, not the company, will ever die. PalmOS is the BEST operating system OVERALL for mobile devices. For a select few, Pocket PC is best for them, but for most of us, PalmOS is better and the best. Palm devices appeal to ALL users, not just power and corporate users. pocket pc will NEVER get the average smo joe in this world, pocket pc was not built and can never be built for that kind of consumer. Pocket PC was built for the power user, wanting everything little possible thing out of their handheld. I personally don't like pocket pc. I'm a power user, but it doesn't satisfy me. Give me a clie, and a diamond mako, that's all the pocket pc i'll ever need.

    PalmOS does however needs a good kick in the ***, it needs to learn from its mistakes, and start branching out to meet EVERYONES' needs, both the low end and high end consumer. They should take a lesson from Microsoft, and not be so arrogant, specially Palm, Inc, thinking just because they are palm, they could come out with a cheap m505, haha. Once palmOS passes that mark, it'll survive, and so will pocket pc, I mean, they are both GREAT platforms, but designed for different users, and every user is different, but by numbers, palmOS WILL APPEAL to greater numbers. Just my opinion.

    Nelson
    nelson.hsieh
    good artists copy, great artists steal. . .
  5.    #5  
    AzNCoMpUtAnErD:

    Overall I agree with your post. But I'm not interested in starting yet another Palm vs. PocketPC debate. My only intention was to point out what I believe is a unified attempt by Palm news sites to avoid posting "bad news" that indicates a shift taking place in the PDA industry, towards PocketPC. I believe these sites don't want their readers to know about these reports. Aside from the market data, they also ignored two separate studies by the Gartner Group and Aberdeen Groups that concluded PocketPC will surpass Palm platform in two to three years. Where have all the boisterous Palm sites gone? Don't they have the guts to post these stories? When these market surveys strongly favored Palm and HS, projecting PocketPC with only a sliver of marketshare, these sites were right on these stories. Now I see nothing but tumbleweed blowing by. What gives?
  6. #6  
    Yes Palm is in deep do do. They got fat and lazy. That's why when the Sony Clie 710 came out, I bought it right away.



    Palm needs to stop taking us for granted and put out real upgrades to hardware and software. Are they hungry or not? Don't get me wrong. Microsoft has been guilty themselves. Netscape came along a scared the bejeezuz out of MS. But MS got its *** in gear in months and eventually killed netscape. This will happen to Palm if they don't wake up. I wouldn't be surprised if handspring and Sony aren't already toying around with the idea of manufacturing a PPC device.


    PALM WAKE THE F#@$k UP!!!


    If the palm platform doesn't come through next go around I guarantee I'll be on the PPC next. Sony saved me from the PPC platform this time.
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  7.    #7  
    Originally posted by mikedemo
    ...I wouldn't be surprised if handspring and Sony aren't already toying around with the idea of manufacturing a PPC device.
    I don't think SONY will offer such a device anytime soon, but I GUARENTEE that before this year ends, we will see a Handspring PocketPC device. Handspring isn't going to dump the PalmOS, but they would be stupid to ignore the success of PocketPC and not see it as a market opportunity for them. Hawkins has already said that some of their upcoming products won't run on the PalmOS. Unlike Palm, they will offer a more diverse line of products.
  8. #8  
    I wouldn't mind if Handspring made a PPC device, but it would have to be Mac compatible because I'd not be inclined to buy a desktop PC just to sync up a PPC .
    garinballbarin
  9.    #9  
    Originally posted by kamizuno
    I wouldn't mind if Handspring made a PPC device, but it would have to be Mac compatible because I'd not be inclined to buy a desktop PC just to sync up a PPC .
    Mac support is coming to PocketPCs. Microsoft said it is working on a "Mac pack" that should sync with Entourage or the new Mac Outlook. There is also some third party developer (I think DoctorCE) who is working on a Mac conduit.
  10. #10  
    Originally posted by foo fighter


    Mac support is coming to PocketPCs. Microsoft said it is working on a "Mac pack" that should sync with Entourage or the new Mac Outlook. There is also some third party developer (I think DoctorCE) who is working on a Mac conduit.
    This spells a load of trouble for the palm platform. One thing Mac users are big on is multimedia. If MS delivers, and they can, it will go down hill for palm.

    btw I'm a mac user But i sync my 710c on my pc.
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  11.    #11  
    Here is the link to DoctorCE's upcoming PocketMac software:

    http://www.doctorce.com/macsync_prereg.html

    I'm a PC user myself, but I have been thinking of switching to a Mac for my web design work. Don't know if I will or not. I've been waiting out the market so far.
  12.    #12  
    OFF TOPIC ALERT!!

    By the way Mikedemo & kamizuno, have you seen the new Mac news site, NeoMac?

    http://mac.neowin.net/

    Cool stuff! I've chatted with the news editor, Ritsuke, several times. He's pretty cool.
  13. #13  
    Originally posted by foo fighter
    OFF TOPIC ALERT!!

    By the way Mikedemo & kamizuno, have you seen the new Mac news site, NeoMac?

    http://mac.neowin.net/

    Cool stuff! I've chatted with the news editor, Ritsuke, several times. He's pretty cool.
    Thanks for the news. I'll check it out.
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  14. #14  
    Originally posted by foo fighter
    Now Palm's market share is dwindling fast while PocketPC is growing at a staggering rate.
    Is the PPC share of the market really growing at a "staggering rate?" The last article I read on this subject said that PPC was making gains, but not staggering, and not with consumers.
    That IS a Palm III form-factor in my pocket, AND I'm happy to see you.
  15. #15  
    Originally posted by foo fighter


    but I GUARENTEE that before this year ends, we will see a Handspring PocketPC device.
    I am intrigued! How can you guarantee this? Do you know something that we do not? I am sure that Handspring will make a PPC device in the future but by the end of the year? More info please!
  16. #16  
    It is my understanding from reading other news sites (I believe that it was PalmInfoCenter) that the groups that did the study were always biased towards Microsoft. In any case, most of these studies are usually way off. A lot of the dotcoms rely on studies from these groups to backup their "business plan" and where are most of them now?

    I am still not convinced that people WANT or NEED the features that a PPC have. The PPC is popular in the Enterprise Market ONLY because of the easy integration with current Enterprise systems.
  17.    #17  
    Originally posted by slotmachine
    Is the PPC share of the market really growing at a "staggering rate?" The last article I read on this subject said that PPC was making gains, but not staggering, and not with consumers.
    PocketPC is making a killing in the Enterprise. That's where their market share gains are staggering. They are already past the 35% mark in Europe. Compaq had a 25.5% share, Casio had 5%, HP had 5.2%. Palm had just barely held onto the lead with 25.9%, Sony had 3.1%, and Handspring had less than 6.8%. PalmOS = 35% | PocketPC = 35%. The most alarming news from this report is that there has been a paralleled trend taking place with PalmOS devices declining quarter over quarter, while PocketPCs are growing quarter over quarter.

    Palm is being reduced further every quarter, that is undeniable. Palm waited far too long to update its OS and processor (ARM). Now they are paying for it.

    As for consumers. They will NEVER adopt PocketPC, at least not en masse. PocketPC has no sex appeal. The hardware isn't as well designed as Palm based devices. And they are far too expensive. Think about it, who has more consumer brand recognition: SONY or Compaq? Nuff said.

    Unfortunately, this battle may be fought and won in the enterprise, not the consumer market. That's something Palm and Handspring didn't count on.
  18. #18  
    Sorry if I got off the topic of discussion earlier. I do think, yes, palm sites are worrying about PPC, but they have no reason too. Like many have said in this post, PPC dominates the corportate market, and will NEVER dominate the consumer market, for many reasons as posted. I am a consumer user, and do not like or prefer PPC devices. If Palm of one of its licensees can penetrate into the corportate market, PPC would have a hard time surviving. It'll take PalmOS time and development to do so, but I think it will. It's a great time for the PDA market and handhelds in general, its finally catching on to all sorts of users, and being used in many different fields and niches.

    I'll admit, the FIRST PDA handheld device I wanted was the iPAQ pocket pc. Two major reasons stopped me from getting it. The cost of the device and accessories. No Macintosh compatability. I am a high school student using a PowerMac G4. Now I have more money, I've invested it in a Sony Clie PEG-N710C and a Diamond Mako. However, PPC devices just don't appeal to me. One of the biggest things I noticed using the iPAQ for a week is how useless it was to me. There is not much software out there for students, Four.Zero is GREAT for palmOS. I can play with my clie for hours and hours, but it's not the same with PPC. It felt like a $500 worthless piece of metal or whatever it's made of. That's just me though, maybe some of those people out there who use it for corporate uses, or those of you can afford to buy hundreds of dollars of software think differently.

    Pocket PC is a great device, but it'll need time and development to satisfy me. PalmOS is my PDA champ for now. And EPOC OS, hehe.
    nelson.hsieh
    good artists copy, great artists steal. . .
  19.    #19  
    Originally posted by yardie
    It is my understanding from reading other news sites (I believe that it was PalmInfoCenter) that the groups that did the study were always biased towards Microsoft.
    I'm not surprised that Palminfocenter would say that. Ed is a friggin Palm lap dog. He will defend that company no matter how grim the sale forecast because he is biased. So take any commentary from Ed with a grain of salt and a shot of Vodka. Besides, these are two totally seperate groups who conducted these studies. It seems less likely that both are biased. Also, this marketshare data is not coming from either Gartner or Aberdeen..it's coming from a European market analysis firm (Think NPD) called Canalys. Are all three firms biased? Hardly.

    I am still not convinced that people WANT or NEED the features that a PPC have. The PPC is popular in the Enterprise Market ONLY because of the easy integration with current Enterprise systems.
    Your beating a dead horse here. The days when you could argue whether or not consumers want these features or not are long gone. Consumers do want them. Look at the success of the Clie, and the decline of Palm and Handspring sales. Hmm...the Clie is flying off the shelves while Handspring's market share is falling below 10%, sales are down, and the Edge (unfortunately) has been a flop. Same goes for Palm. Only the M505 has been a success, and that's because it has a COLOR display. Do people want or need these features? They seem to think so. Ask Handspring what they think.

    I am intrigued! How can you guarantee this? Do you know something that we do not? I am sure that Handspring will make a PPC device in the future but by the end of the year? More info please!
    Guarentee? No, but its just a gut feeling. Handspring is sucking air right now. They need a radical new device and Hawkins has said he intends to make a major assault on the coporate market this year. I'm still waiting for the assualt to begin, but I have to believe Hawkins is smart enough to see that the PalmOS is going to get them nowhere with enterprise clients. Try selling fruity colored Visor deluxes to IT managers and see the reaction you get. Aside from that we have Hawkins own words that some future products will not run on the PalmOS, and it has been widely rumored that HS is shopping for a new OS. An HS branded PocketPC is the next logical move.
    Last edited by foo fighter; 08/12/2001 at 10:00 PM.
  20. #20  
    Originally posted by foo fighter


    Your beating a dead horse here. The days when you could argue whether or not consumers want these features or not are long gone. Consumers do want them. Look at the success of the Clie, and the decline of Palm and Handspring sales. Hmm...the Clie is flying off the shelves while Handspring's market share is falling below 10%, sales are down, and the Edge (unfortunately) has been a flop. Same goes for Palm. Only the M505 has been a success, and that's because it has a COLOR display. Do people want or need these features? They seem to think so. Ask Handspring what they think.

    I would be surprise if I see Handspring come out with a PDA with built in MP3 player. Enterprise users have no use for such frills. Neither do the average Palm users. The Sony specifically the N700 (or whats is called) is popular with Power Users..Users that are bored and want more in their Palm units than just an organizer. Another thing to keep in mind is that Sony is a big consumer manufacturer. People who knows nothing about PDAs know about Sony -- the company. Teh higher resolution on the Sony Clie is also a big selling point. If I do end up switching to a Sony Clie it would be for this reason. Not all the multimedia crap.
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