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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    The link surur posted seems to be broken but judging by the URL they've cracked Super Monkey Ball, which I certainly wouldn't call lame. Gorgeous, addictive, challenging, great fun, and damn good value at $10 is what I'd call it.
    I believe they cracked fairplay, which means EVERY piece of software, glorious or shovelware, is now free for the taking.

    Surur
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    I believe they cracked fairplay, which means EVERY piece of software, glorious or shovelware, is now free for the taking.

    Surur

    Maybe so, but for the average person, its a very difficult task to get these apps on the phone in this state. To difficult for most to try.
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Maybe so, but for the average person, its a very difficult task to get these apps on the phone in this state. To difficult for most to try.
    At the moment. I am sure some Apple hacker will make it a "delightful experience" soon.

    Surur
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    The point however is that Apple, despite fairplay, has done nothing to protect their developers, and are actively working against them protecting themselves. Also the promise of glitch-free, virus-free shovelware free platform has essentially come to nothing.
    Just to make sure, you are inferring the converse: all other commercial software is fully protected from piracy whether it is sold by a third party or by the developer directly and only Apple has managed to fail in providing sufficient protections. I'm only confirming this because I was under the impression that nearly all commercial software was pirate-able regardless of who sold it. And by "all," I'm really saying my knowledge is limited to MS-DOS, Windows (all flavors including Mobile), MAC-OS, OS X, Linux, Solaris, Symbian, and Blackberry. I'm not as well-versed in the pure Java environments, Irix, or custom imbedded systems and I have no experience with Cray.

    As a developer, I'm aware of these risks and I do what I can to mitigate it, but I don't waste time trying to prevent it because that's impossible without resorting to methods so draconian as to render the software nearly obsolete anyway (and then the terrorists win!) - like Lightwave. So, what is your point?
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Just to make sure, you are inferring the converse: all other commercial software is fully protected from piracy whether it is sold by a third party or by the developer directly and only Apple has managed to fail in providing sufficient protections. I'm only confirming this because I was under the impression that nearly all commercial software was pirate-able regardless of who sold it. And by "all," I'm really saying my knowledge is limited to MS-DOS, Windows (all flavors including Mobile), MAC-OS, OS X, Linux, Solaris, Symbian, and Blackberry. I'm not as well-versed in the pure Java environments, Irix, or custom imbedded systems and I have no experience with Cray.

    As a developer, I'm aware of these risks and I do what I can to mitigate it, but I don't waste time trying to prevent it because that's impossible without resorting to methods so draconian as to render the software nearly obsolete anyway (and then the terrorists win!) - like Lightwave. So, what is your point?
    Firstly, because on the iPhone the DRM is the same for all the apps, you break one, you break all.

    Secondly Apple forbids extra steps to unlock functionality, so a developer can not add their own extra layer of protection.

    Therefore, software on the iPhone is MORE VULNERABLE to piracy.

    Kupe, remember, in the end, everything is relative.

    Surur
  6. #26  
    "You break one, you break all" is not exactly true. The apps use a certificate system based on multiple hierarchical certificates. It was not my understanding that they managed to hack all apps in this case?
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    #27  
    makes things interesting though
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  8.    #28  
    From the nullsofts pulled tethering app (which shows how little active supervision of the app store is occuring)

    norseman @ Jul 31st 2008 10:01PM
    Woot!!! I bought it earlier and am so pleased!

    Reply
    NeutralJD @ Jul 31st 2008 10:07PM
    you mind uploading the file?
    it is located in the itunes folder.
    There is a big community that cracks apps and makes them free....
    I would really really appreciate it


    NeutralDistortedloop @ Jul 31st 2008 11:10PM
    Be forewarned that honoring the request to upload your app will reveal your name and iTunes account id....

    Check the Get Info on the file.

    Neutralandrew @ Aug 1st 2008 2:47AM
    hack it before you upload it, and leave the email as user@email.com...
    http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/31/t...ybe/2#comments

    Sorry to be posting thread posts again, but I think it proves the point.

    Surur
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Therefore, software on the iPhone is MORE VULNERABLE to piracy.

    Kupe, remember, in the end, everything is relative.
    I thought your original post seemed like a bunch of sweeping generalities. Since all software is hackable, the fact that the Apple software is also hackable somehow makes it "MORE VULNERABLE?" Surur, you seem to have forgotten in the end, everything is relative.
  10.    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    I thought your original post seemed like a bunch of sweeping generalities. Since all software is hackable, the fact that the Apple software is also hackable somehow makes it "MORE VULNERABLE?" Surur, you seem to have forgotten in the end, everything is relative.
    Just because every country can be invaded, does not mean every country is equally vulnerable.

    I hope the analogy is clear - iPhone apps are more vulnerable.

    Surur
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Just because every country can be invaded, does not mean every country is equally vulnerable.

    I hope the analogy is clear - iPhone apps are more vulnerable.
    Wrong analogy since there's no reason to invade every country (just as there's no reason to crack every piece of software).

    Perhaps you were looking for an analogy like:

    Every individual is susceptible to the common cold. While everyone is not equally vulnerable, they are all vulnerable and without resorting to inordinately outrageous measures (Howard Hughes comes to mind), they will likely get a cold at some time.

    In other words, your use of the word "more" to modify "vulnerable" is meaningless. Software that is not invulnerable is vulnerable - not more vulnerable. Making software invulnerable, while an interesting academic exercise, is not financially viable in the world of open markets and wide distribution.

    Nice try in making a case out of nothing though.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    From the nullsofts pulled tethering app (which shows how little active supervision of the app store is occuring)


    http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/31/t...ybe/2#comments

    Sorry to be posting thread posts again, but I think it proves the point.

    Surur
    if i could only tell you my stories...
  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Wrong analogy since there's no reason to invade every country (just as there's no reason to crack every piece of software).

    Perhaps you were looking for an analogy like:

    Every individual is susceptible to the common cold. While everyone is not equally vulnerable, they are all vulnerable and without resorting to inordinately outrageous measures (Howard Hughes comes to mind), they will likely get a cold at some time.

    In other words, your use of the word "more" to modify "vulnerable" is meaningless. Software that is not invulnerable is vulnerable - not more vulnerable. Making software invulnerable, while an interesting academic exercise, is not financially viable in the world of open markets and wide distribution.

    Nice try in making a case out of nothing though.
    You clearly cant differentiate between breaking a single instance vs breaking a system.

    Analogy alert: Breaking app store encryption is like when they broke that old 40 bit WIFI encryption system. Theoretically all connections were vulnerable, but it took weeks of calculations to break the key. Then some-one found a weakness in the algorithm, and suddenly it took just a few hours, meaning everyone had to move to another encryption system.

    There's a difference between breaking a system and breaking an instance.

    Surur
  14. #34  
    Surur, I'm not sure how you can make these claims, being that there is not one Windows Mobile app I cant download and steal currently if I really wanted too. As opposed to 1 hacked iPhone app that you have to jump through hoops to use.

    Your iPhone obsession is starting to blur your levels of reality again.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    if i could only tell you my stories...
    Yeah, while I love the app store, its needs an overhaul. Also, the update mechanism needs to be greatly improved.

    cmair, without getting specific, how are your apps selling? better or worse than expected? I know there is a tool out now that developers can view download amounts.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Surur, I'm not sure how you can make these claims, being that there is not one Windows Mobile app I cant download and steal currently if I really wanted too. As opposed to 1 hacked iPhone app that you have to jump through hoops to use.
    That's the point Surur seems to be missing (I'm sure it's completely by accident) - except in rare instances nearly all other software is utterly vulnerable to hacking with minimal, if any, effort on the pirate's part. Trying to discern gradations of vulnerability in an otherwise fully vulnerable environment is like trying to determine degrees of wetness in various spots of a swimming pool. It's moot. You're wet - you're vulnerable.
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    That's the point Surur seems to be missing (I'm sure it's completely by accident) - except in rare instances nearly all other software is utterly vulnerable to hacking with minimal, if any, effort on the pirate's part. Trying to discern gradations of vulnerability in an otherwise fully vulnerable environment is like trying to determine degrees of wetness in various spots of a swimming pool. It's moot. You're wet - you're vulnerable.
    Prove it. There is certainly enough vendors willing to sell you license-protection software. Diversity also makes life more difficult for pirates and more onerous for software thieves.

    http://www.licensingdotnet.com/

    Surur
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Prove it. There is certainly enough vendors willing to sell you license-protection software. Diversity also makes life more difficult for pirates and more onerous for software thieves.
    LOL - that's rich. So the existence of (literally) thousands of vendor, howto, DIY, help, suggestion, prevention, and tracking sites dedicated to stopping software piracy does what? Heh - it proves it's a rampant problem. A simple Google search indicates just how big the industry has grown - so how is it possible this anti-piracy industry can thrive in an era of ZERO VULNERABILITY?

    Heck - even the anti-piracy king, Microsoft, acknowledges and even accepts the inevitability of pirated software.

    Prove it indeed. Prove to me you're actually sentient and not just some sort of poorly rigged Turing Test.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    From the nullsofts pulled tethering app (which shows how little active supervision of the app store is occuring)
    It's back. Must of been something less conspiratorial than you were thinking.
  20.    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    It's back. Must of been something less conspiratorial than you were thinking.
    Or obviously even more conspiratorial. Bringing it back makes it even more bizarre.

    Surur
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