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  1.    #1  
    Ok, I've been browzing threw a lot of these threads. And some of them comment a little bit about WinCE devices. I was once an Visor DLX owner. And I got a ton of modules for it. Total cost after buying the Visor and mods. (software no on really buys, they just find the cracked versions) The total was about $800. Then after realizing that the batteries (rechargables) started to last less and less I began to think. Why do i have this. what am i using it for. to play games, to transmit files, and to have a programmable remote. (I did use it for other things, but those are just examples) I was then thinking about just buying a Laptop. then I could just bring whatever I wanted where ever. Unfortunatly the cost was to high. Then I looked at a friend of mines Jornada.(actually a fellow worker) when He wasn't playing around w/ it I was. At 1st I admit it was a little confusing and was a little slow. but yeah, now I find out thats basicly because its a jornada. (the worse pocketpcs out there. Like an m100 is in the palm series. only one work. Yuck) but i got to basicly see how the operating system worked and played around w/ its features. I desided to look more in depth at what pocket pcs were all about (I work in a computer store so i have the luxury of trying these things out a lot) I came to the conclusion that I would but an Ipaq 3635. the reasons. number one. because its color. I was really getting sick of the grayscale ness of the visor dx. I wasn't about to spend $450 for the prism. When i got my ipaq for $440 again because of where I work. I think i would've only payed $380 or $390 for the prism. but seriously only $50 more and the improvement is a lot. you prism guys are proboly thinking. the prism is 16bit color where as the ipaq is only 12bit. the prism is better. unfortunatly there is no palmOS program that really uses all 16bits. So your 16bit Prism picture or game is going so show the same on the ipaq. the ipaq screen is also much much brighter then the prisms screen. the ipaq's cpu is a 16bit chip so in theory you could replace the screen, but im not going to risk that. next reason why i upgraded was because of the batteries. I was sick of the AAA batteries. even though i did have 6 rechargeable. they were only lasting for 2 days when i was running the visor. and about 1 - 2 weeks when i would just leave it off. w/ the ipaq with the screen light not on, it will easily last for 12 hours. when the screen light is on about 6-10 hours. this also will varry depending on what programs ur using and how much power they take. Turjah Episode II takes a lot of battery power. BTW. It takes 15-20 mins to fully recharge the Lithium Ion Battery in the Ipaq. With The PC Expantion card the Ipaq will last for 20 hours w/out having to recharge very easily. There is an external LIon battery also in the pc expantion card which will also recharge. Third reason, syncing is automatic. From the time I change something im writing on my paper to the time its on my Ipaq it takes 2 seconds and because i have officeXP it automaticly saves to whatever time i have it set to. thats for my excel, word, powerpoint, and outlook (calender/contacts/tasks/notes). Also with my ipaq I can send palmOS programs to anypalm device(peacemaker, came as part of the software package with the ipaq3635). But as far as i know WinCE will not recieve unless it is copied from another windows device/pc. I can send as well as recieve contacts, notes, and calender information. BeamWorks(palmOS) is an example program that can do that. the 4th reasons can basicly be found on this website.www.goipaq.com not only can i hook up a solarpanel to it and use the suns rays to power/recharge it. but i can but 2 5gig pcmcia cards in a duel pcmcia card expantion to make a total of about 10gigs of hd space. in the palm of your hand that is a lot of space. i can easily take out one of the 5 gig cards to leave 5 gigs still and have wireless internet or wireless LAN and use a broudband or even just a simply 56k connection to browze the internet anywhere in my house/ outside on my deck. and becuase i can put a keyboard and still keep the expantion slots i could do even more. on the ipaq you can change the os from Windows CE to a bottom down version of Linux. this bottom down version of linux is usb compadible. so there for, w/ a pcmcia card -> 2 usb adapter then 2 usb 4 port hubs you could have a lot of other devices, but if ur doing that much thats when u just goto the laptop. The next version of windows CE (4.0) is to have better USB and Firewire support. It is supported now. It's just a little tricky to use. Because there is also a pcmcia -> 2 firewire. as well as PCmcia -> VGA. and everything. I will proboly be posting more about these kinds of stuff on my website. www.kevintm.com .
    wow that was long. and only took 20 mins to write.
    "there is always a way around the system" - redwing '99

    visit http://www.kevintm.comwww.kevintm.com
  2. #2  
    (software no on really buys, they just find the cracked versions) The total was about $800.
    You spent $800 on hardware and you were too cheap to pay any of the hard working software developers for their time and effort?

    Not sure what the point of your post was, but it sounds like you like your iPaq.

    P.S. You may want to experiment with paragraph breaks.

    P.P.S. Next time you may want to post this in the appropriate forum.
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  3.    #3  
    yeah. the basic point of the post was that the pocketpcs are going to do a lot more for anyone no matter who you are and what kind of user you are. plus there are a lot more advantages of the ipaq compared to the palm devices.

    i dont like paragraph breaks because then people dont hurt there eyes. this way when they have their high resolution screen they have to squient to read what they're reading and cause perminant eye damage. woohoo.

    the last section i was reading was this thread so i just desided to post it and not hit [back] one more time.

    thanks for the previous post. keep em comin.
    "there is always a way around the system" - redwing '99

    visit http://www.kevintm.comwww.kevintm.com
  4. #4  
    I have virtually all of the PPCs and almost all of the current (and old) Palm OS devices (I can't stomach the looks of the new HandEra enough to give them money for it). The IPAQ is great, but I almost never carry it. When I pick up a PDA in the morning it is almost always the Edge, m505, or N710C. The choice usually comes down to clothing and activities for the day. I used to use the IPAQ more when I wanted to listen to music during the day, but since the new Sony came out, the IPAQ loses.
  5.    #5  
    the 505's are terrible in my mind. the color and blacklight on the screens are terrible. u can hardly even tell that its a color device. the ipaq works great w/ my outlook and offers more reliablity. With palms. why just use it for music when it can do so much more then any palm device. the clie is overpriced. if u want a pda that also just plays music. the memory sticks for those things are way more then compact flash cards. just get a ppc. and a microdrive or 128 meg flash card. its actually cheaper that way. there aren't that many songs u can put on 64 megs anyway. about 30 for ok quality. good try. but no matter what catigory you rate the 2 palm and wince devices in. wince will win. Even in stabilty. My visor has crashed way more often then my iPAQ. my iPAQ i think has only crashed once. thats because i was running 5 high level games and many other apps at the same time. Palms really can't multitask.
    "there is always a way around the system" - redwing '99

    visit http://www.kevintm.comwww.kevintm.com
  6. #6  
    Originally posted by homer




    P.S. You may want to experiment with paragraph breaks.

    And spelling and puncuation.
    Last edited by Thunderbird291; 08/05/2001 at 01:36 PM.
  7. #7  
    Brad:

    You have all of the Pocket PCs and most Palm OS models? Lucky. Or maybe sick, depending on how you look at it. I though I was bad - I've got a Rex 3, Visor DX, Prism, Sharp Wizard, and a RIM Blackberry 957. I also just ordered a new Diamond Mako, now that they are practically giving them away. I don't have any Pocket PCs, unfortunately.

    How do you swing it/justify it? It being, of course, such an abundance of PDAs.
  8.    #8  
    im going to agree with that last post. maybe you should just get an emulator if your that into palms. or maybe one other word can describe it. obsessed. I know a kid that is obsessed with his prism. dont turn into him. he would rather spend his time w/ his prism then with a good lookin girl. this test was taken and was proved. he did infact cancel a few dates just so that he could work on some of his new programs for the palmOS. what a crazy kid. ppc's are still the way to go. and dont waste your money on anything else. maybe one palm to start off on and learn the basics of how they work. but ppc's are the ultimate way to go. then give ur palm device to your kid or spouce or whatever.
    "there is always a way around the system" - redwing '99

    visit http://www.kevintm.comwww.kevintm.com
  9. #9  
    You forgot one thing. The Edge and the m505 are MUCH MUCH MUCH smaller and thinner than any PPC out there.

    This is really important to those of us who are working professionals and cannot afford to carry around anything that doesn't comfortably fit in a business suit jacket's inner pocket or the back pocket of a pair of slacks.

    PPC's are WAAAAAY too big. I have a Sony Vaio Superslim Pro for when I want to do any actual computing - and it's only about the size of a 100 sheet spiral notebook.

    For all other stuff I carry around my Visor Edge. I checked out the new Clie for a while (for the hi-res and nice color, not the mp3's) but it turned out to be way too thick; PPC's are SO much bigger than even the gigantic Clie! I've been looking at the m505 lately; only because I can add 16 megs of memory without affecting the form factor (a major drawback of the otherwise beautiful Edge, IMHO).

    Sorry, but PPC's are NOT a viable PDA for anyone whose image is important to their job. I find it hard enough to carry an Edge, a set of keys, my leather wallet, and my
    Nokia 8860 as it is.

    And PLEASE PLEASE don't try to tell me about belt pouches. Those things are hideous.

    -Trotsky
  10. #10  
    Originally posted by kevmccollum
    pocketpcs are going to do a lot more for anyone no matter who you are and what kind of user you are. plus there are a lot more advantages of the ipaq compared to the palm devices.
    My question is this: What exact benefits does WinCE offer over the PalmOS? I've only briefly looked at an Ipac, and while it seemed very functional, I didn't see anything it could do that I couldn't do on my Prism (features that I would use anyway). As a person who hasn't looked at WinCE, what am I really missing? And what advantages would you say there are to the PalmOS over WinCE?

    Originally posted by kevmccollum
    I was then thinking about just buying a Laptop. then I could just bring whatever I wanted where ever. Unfortunatly the cost was to high.
    I considered this too, until I got my VDL (VPR now). I took a 6 week business trip with only my DLX, a compact falsh card+adapter, 8mg flash module, backup module (I use my CF card now; it was my buddies' module; good thing I had it too, as my DLX got dropped and hard reset itself), thinmodem, and stowaway. I was able to do anything I would have used a laptop for, including surfing the web, checking email, chatting, etc. All this for far less and far smaller than a laptop. And I was able to carry "whatever I wanted where ever."

    Originally posted by kevmccollum
    I was really getting sick of the grayscale ness of the visor dx. I wasn't about to spend $450 for the prism. When i got my ipaq for $440 again because of where I work. I think i would've only payed $380 or $390 for the prism. but seriously only $50 more and the improvement is a lot.
    Me too. That's why I got a Prism (brand new on eBay for $365/free shipping, when the list was still $450)

    Originally posted by kevmccollum
    unfortunatly there is no palmOS program that really uses all 16bits. So your 16bit Prism picture or game is going so show the same on the ipaq.
    I have over 13mgs of pics on my visor, all 16bit; most other programs don't really need 16-bit color, but having it with pics is nice.

    Originally posted by kevmccollum
    I was sick of the AAA batteries. even though i did have 6 rechargeable. they were only lasting for 2 days when i was running the visor. and about 1 - 2 weeks when i would just leave it off.....BTW. It takes 15-20 mins to fully recharge the Lithium Ion Battery in the Ipaq.
    Me too, so I got a the fullcharge batteries, and never had to change again. Now my Prism has LithIon.

    Originally posted by kevmccollum
    Third reason, syncing is automatic. From the time I change something im writing on my paper to the time its on my Ipaq it takes 2 seconds and because i have officeXP it automaticly saves to whatever time i have it set to. thats for my excel, word, powerpoint, and outlook (calender/contacts/tasks/notes).
    I don't find pushing the little button to be that hard. There are apps that will do this on the PalmOS too.

    Originally posted by kevmccollum
    not only can i hook up a solarpanel to it and use the suns rays to power/recharge it.
    They have this for the PalmOS devices too.

    Originally posted by kevmccollum
    but i can but 2 5gig pcmcia cards in a duel pcmcia card expantion to make a total of about 10gigs of hd space. in the palm of your hand that is a lot of space.
    I don't need that much. I do need more than the 8mg though, so I have a 128mg CF card. I think they're coming out with a 512mg too. With my 128 card I have lots of books, over 200 pics, a backup, extra apps, and more stuff, and still lots of room.

    Originally posted by kevmccollum
    have wireless internet or wireless LAN and use a broudband or even just a simply 56k connection to browze the internet anywhere in my house/ outside on my deck. and becuase i can put a keyboard and still keep the expantion slots i could do even more.
    Same here.
    Like I said, I'm just looking for some real advantages of WinCE over the PalmOS. I'm not knocking WinCE; I just responded to your comments to point out that I haven't heard anything yet that really grabs me. Is there something else/more useful features I'm missing?
    As far as multitasking, I can change between Palm apps as fast as you can between your apps that are running, and the only time I would find this useful is while browsing online (which I do very little of on my Visor. The web pages I do want on there I get through AvantGo whenever I hotsync).
    I would appreciate any input/information.
    IYYAYAS

    AMMO - Providing the enemy the opportunity to die for his country.
  11. #11  
    Originally posted by kevmccollum:
    the 505's are terrible in my mind. the color and blacklight on the screens are terrible. [...]


    So that's why the screens on the M505 look the way they do! They used blacklights in them. You probably need to be listening to Grateful Dead music to view them properly.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  12. #12  
    kevmccollum,

    All I gotta say is that you should have gotten a Clie 710c. Its basically the bridge between a Palm and a PPC. Though the iPaq beats it in Mhz speed and the M505 has the slimmest profile and great battery life, I have found the Clie to be a blending of the best features of both machines.

    Thats why bradhaak said

    . . . .When I pick up a PDA in the morning it is almost always the Edge, m505, or N710C. The choice usually comes down to clothing and activities for the day. I used to use the IPAQ more when I wanted to listen to music during the day, but since the new Sony came out, the IPAQ loses.
    The Sony Clie 710c is what kept me from going to the PPC platform, and if Palm does the right thing with the next generation ARM based palm devices and Palm OS 5, then I will still be buy/using Palm based devices, if not then you may see me on a PPC in the not too distant future. I think i have reasonable expectations of PDAs an am not looking for a replacement for a laptop. I just want the standard Palm OS functionality with some multimedia (sharp crips photos, Audio capabilities, and occasionally a watch short video clip or movie trailer).

    The Clie 710c is the best choice those wanting some PPC features in a Palm OS device.


    PS Whats the battery life on the iPaq like?
    Last edited by mikedemo; 07/11/2001 at 10:29 AM.
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  13. #13  
    Originally posted by VTL
    Brad:

    You have all of the Pocket PCs and most Palm OS models? Lucky. Or maybe sick, depending on how you look at it. I though I was bad - I've got a Rex 3, Visor DX, Prism, Sharp Wizard, and a RIM Blackberry 957. I also just ordered a new Diamond Mako, now that they are practically giving them away. I don't have any Pocket PCs, unfortunately.

    How do you swing it/justify it? It being, of course, such an abundance of PDAs.
    A lot of my friends think that it's a sickness and my wife just rolls her eyes. Actually I make a very comfortable livingand it is a relatively cheap hobby compared to some others. I don't smoke, drink or do drugs. I used to go on expensive ski trips, but now I just drive down the coast and go scuba diving. No cost there except for airfills.

    I am actively (3-4 nights a week) working on some fairly ambitious Palm software, but really it just comes down to the fact that there are a lot of other hobbies/activities that would cost just as much if not more if you look at total expenditure.
  14. #14  
    Kevin,
    The m505 screen is not terrible. Certainly the side light is not the best that I have ever seen, but I got one the first day that they were out and I have never been in lighting where the screen quality wasn't adequate. Generally it is much more than adequate.

    But you are missing the point. PPCs are not superior. They are different. If you think that they are the best for you, that is great - use them. Don't criticize other people because their usage and preferences are different than yours.

    Acyually, if the only PDA that I had was an IPAQ after getting rid of a Palm OS device of roughly the same size, I might feel the same way that you do. but to me, size does matter. The other issue for me is ease of use. I pop my PDA du jour out of my pocket at least a dozen times a day to take a quick look or enter a thought. Even with Wis-Bar and DashBoard, the PPC takes significantly more effort to accomplish simple tasks. Now this is balanced somewhat by the fact that complex tasks are much simpler on the PPC. The problem is that I do dozens of simple tasks for each more complex task.

    I am glad that you have found a device that is right for you. Just keep in mind that maybe the other people on this board have too.
  15. #15  
    Well said bradhaak
    -Mikedemo
    It's all about how you spend the money.
  16. #16  
    Brad:

    Good rationale. Now if I can only convince my wife to let me drop another $500 or so to play with a Pocket PC. I can hear it now:

    "Well, I was thinking of taking up [fill in expensive hobby], but I think I'll go buy an IPaq instead." "OK dear."

    Probably won't work.
  17. #17  
    It probably helped that I had already established the behavior before we got married.
  18.    #18  
    so the sony is much smaller then. lol. anything u can do on that sony which is way over priced. i can do on my ppc which also the last time i checked is smaller then any laptop. dvd's can be played on iPAQs without a problem. there are pcmcia dvd players and then can even be viewed on vga monitors w/ the duel pcmcia sleeve. battery life on those laptops sure do last a long time. not really. the edge isn't worth its money. it maybe thin. but its not color. grayscale is a pain now. i want mobil computing. no a mobil want to be computer. if u want to use modules w/ the edge the damn thing becomes just as big as any ppc or other palm. but if u bought a visor and dont use their mods, u should've just gone w/ the 500 or 505. u would be happier. if u looking at image, i personally think that the silver steel casing on the iPAQ makes the plastic visors and mostly plastic palms look like toys. with a cell phone it doesn't really make much of a difference. people wont really care about that belt clip. how is a black belt clip hidious?

    <----------------------------------------------------------------->

    one advatage of functionality is emulators. the palm cannot emulate very many things. where as i could be here all day listing what the ppc can emulate. examples, ppcs can not only emulate any palmOS, but also DOS 6.22, sega genises, nintendo/SNES/Gameboys, hpcalcs/TI calcs are under development. and much more. liberty is a gameboy emulator for the palm, there are many roms that dont work for it though. w/ PPCs you can also format the rom and install a version of Linux as an OS. not very many people really care about this. but if u really hate windows, u can also use linux (if u know how to use linux)

    with the CF on palms dont u have to copy the files from the CF to the 8 meg memory before u can use that file. that is kinda why u cant use tealmovie to watch any real movies. so if u dont mind wasting batteries and time by copying and deleting sure u can do that. but with PPC's you can run files directly from the CF. no temp files are needed.

    surfing the web on a palm is annoying. exspecially w/ avantgo. not only are frames, css, and java not compadible with avantgo, but the screen is so fricken small. emails aren't as bad, but still its a little harder to read compared to the bigger screen on any PPC. chatting on AIM is a pain w/ palms. there is no room for anything. no real options either. Aim on the ppc is much more injoyable and not frustrating. cuz i can view the web will im chatting on aim. cant really multitask. so u can't chat on aim without signing off and view websites/check email at the same time.

    the prism is a nice palm. and i would actually pic the prism over the clie simply because of the modules, and memory sticks are not the way to go unless u have other sony products. but i would not get a prism reason being for viewing full sized pictures. (not zoomed) the screen is to small. when u want to show other people what ur looking at u have to show them up upclose to each person one by one, and not farther back.

    at the last microsoft conference for officeXP they speaker for our region had a jornada(32 meg version). she said she picked the jornada over the palms or anyother pocket pc because number 1, the price was very afforable. number two, it windows interface was much nicer then the palms and was much less crash pron. *my visor has lost all its memory many times before i got my backup module, simply because of the crashs and illegal line errors.* ive never had to reset the iPAQ like that because of its 16 megs of flash. she also chose it because it was better for dementrations and was more professional. (there were other reasons too. but those were just some) she did a lot of things with her jornada like voice commands and other tasks that any palm can not do. the built in voice recording and voice command options are pretty cool when ur in the car and u need to make a note of something. the ppc can also read it back. for example if u need directions. (Turn Left and Jackson. 1 mile.)

    ive never seen the solarpanel devices for any palm. please link me to this. i would love to see it.

    512 megs of CF will cost u a fortune. it will be like $400 at least. why not just get a microdrive.

    what CAD programs are there for the palm. the one i have for the ppc is pretty nice. works great w/ my autoCAD 2000. same file format and everything.


    <----------------------------------------------------------------->


    when u compare the screen on a 505 to any other color device even the palmIIIc(yuck). the 505 will lose. its to washy and diluted. it maybe 16bit. but u cant tell that at all.

    <----------------------------------------------------------------->

    the clie is for people who have other sony devices and want to take advatage of the mem stick. im not going to just use my pda for music or pics. i use it for many other things too. the sony screen is bright but is too small. the next palms will hopefully implement the hideaway grafitti and keyboard like the ppcs.

    battery life is great. i use it for whatever i need it for the day. bring it home will it syncs it recharges fully in 15-20 mins. when its empty on power. faster if its not empty.

    <----------------------------------------------------------------->

    I agree. get what works best for you and u can afford.

    <----------------------------------------------------------------->

    my gf loves my iPAQ. my ex hated my Palm. she says it was a waste of money. but my gf now plays with my iPAQ whenever she gets the chance. and loves it. we have our songs on it and we play them in the car w/ a car sterio adapter. my visor couldn't do that with out spending my life for the mp3 player for it. ouch that will just drain those batteries even faster.

    <----------------------------------------------------------------->

    thanks for all the replys. i like hearing the arguments and the debating.
    "there is always a way around the system" - redwing '99

    visit http://www.kevintm.comwww.kevintm.com
  19. #19  
    Most of your arguments are out of date or specious. You say you enjoy a debate, but I don't see one going on. You make unsupported or irrelevent claims and ignore the replies that answer or refute them. This being the case, it isn't worth my time to point out the dozens of things wrong in your last post. Instead, I suggest that you try http://www.dalecoffing.com/. It's a site where all of the PPC users get together and tell themselves how superior they are. Since this seems to be the real purpose of this thread, I just thought that you might like some company.

    In the meantime, I would suggest that everyone on VC just quit feeding the troll.
  20. #20  
    Originally posted by bradhaak
    Most of your arguments are out of date or specious. You say you enjoy a debate, but I don't see one going on. You make unsupported or irrelevent claims and ignore the replies that answer or refute them. This being the case, it isn't worth my time to point out the dozens of things wrong in your last post. Instead, I suggest that you try http://www.dalecoffing.com/. It's a site where all of the PPC users get together and tell themselves how superior they are. Since this seems to be the real purpose of this thread, I just thought that you might like some company.

    In the meantime, I would suggest that everyone on VC just quit feeding the troll.
    I got about halfway down the post, then realized I couldn't read it. Literally. It's common courtesy to at least make an attempt to spell check. When attempting to make an argument, shorthand and misspellings severly lower one's credibility. So does making null arguments and attacking another OS. Watching a reg. size DVD on an iPAQ is among the stupidest things I have ever heard. It'd take a 1GB Microdrive, and like was mentioned in a VC article, "I don't want to watch The Matrix on my Visor, I want my Visor to send the movie to the nearest 52" TV." Or something to that effect. I use PalmOS because I hope I can at least count on my PDA to not crash due to windows.
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