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  1.    #1  
    What other OSes out there currently are as finger friendly as the iPhone? WM certainly is not, BB isn't really a competitor, Android is still a mystery to most, and Symbian will be new to the touchscreen game. Also, how about those feature phones that have touchscreens (Vu, Glyde, Voyager). The problem with these are they're not very powerful, and for the most part, PIM, Email, and Internet capabilities are fairly weak.

    Now let's ignore the rest and focus on iPhone and Palm. I think Palm has the benefit of being able to see where the competitors are going, and what they can "copy" and what they can improve upon. I think Palm is innovative, not in the sense of these cool but often gimmicky applications, but in the sense of thinking about how a consumer interacts with the device. The iPhone was built with the premise of simplicity in mind, but also with the focus that Steve Jobs and Apple know what you need and don't need. If Apple doesn't think you need it, you won't get it (Copy/Paste, MMS, Tasks, etc.). However, Palm goes the opposite way - what does the consumer want, and how can we deliver that in the easiest way possible, while still remaining a powerful situation?

    The above paragraph describes why I think Palm will be successful if they don't sit on their haunches too long. Their experience in the mobile space along with truly knowing what customers want along with giving customers the features they demand gives me confidence. Now make the OS look "cool" and give the devices all of the hardware that is current (Wifi, GPS, 3G, BT 2.0, etc) and make the devices look sexy and slim, and you'll have a winner Palm!
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    Android is still a mystery to most, ...
    Not nearly as mysterious as the 4-years-in-development-and-counting Palm Linux kernel. At least Android has an official web site with real information.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    I think Palm has the benefit of being able to see where the competitors are going, and what they can "copy" and what they can improve upon.
    I certainly hope they're watching the other innovators out there. Palm lost its innovation lead back in 2002 and they've been trying to keep up with the bare minimum since then.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    I think Palm is innovative, not in the sense of these cool but often gimmicky applications, but in the sense of thinking about how a consumer interacts with the device.
    Seriously? Only one year after the abortive Foleo announcement and you've already forgotten about Palm's seeming ignorance of consumer desires?

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    However, Palm goes the opposite way - what does the consumer want, and how can we deliver that in the easiest way possible, while still remaining a powerful situation?
    Your telling me Palm consumers have not wanted wi-fi, smaller form factor, or the ability to run more than one program at a time? I ask because I've seen a lot of posts, from supposedly loyal Palm users, confused as to why they've not seen these things after 5 years of asking.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    The above paragraph describes why I think Palm will be successful if they don't sit on their haunches too long.
    POS 5 (Garnet) was released 6 years ago this month. That's over 2,200 days of non-changing technology. How long does a company have to sit on their haunches before it's "too long?" Do you think the wash tub industry has been sitting on its haunches too long, or do they still have a couple more years left before fading into obscurity?

    The more I think about it, the more I wonder how much longer Palm is going continue diddling along doing nothing before the industry completely abandons it.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetluva View Post
    What other OSes out there currently are as finger friendly as the iPhone? WM certainly is not, BB isn't really a competitor, Android is still a mystery to most, and Symbian will be new to the touchscreen game. Also, how about those feature phones that have touchscreens (Vu, Glyde, Voyager). The problem with these are they're not very powerful, and for the most part, PIM, Email, and Internet capabilities are fairly weak.

    Now let's ignore the rest and focus on iPhone and Palm. I think Palm has the benefit of being able to see where the competitors are going, and what they can "copy" and what they can improve upon. I think Palm is innovative, not in the sense of these cool but often gimmicky applications, but in the sense of thinking about how a consumer interacts with the device. The iPhone was built with the premise of simplicity in mind, but also with the focus that Steve Jobs and Apple know what you need and don't need. If Apple doesn't think you need it, you won't get it (Copy/Paste, MMS, Tasks, etc.). However, Palm goes the opposite way - what does the consumer want, and how can we deliver that in the easiest way possible, while still remaining a powerful situation?

    The above paragraph describes why I think Palm will be successful if they don't sit on their haunches too long. Their experience in the mobile space along with truly knowing what customers want along with giving customers the features they demand gives me confidence. Now make the OS look "cool" and give the devices all of the hardware that is current (Wifi, GPS, 3G, BT 2.0, etc) and make the devices look sexy and slim, and you'll have a winner Palm!
    That's a good hope to keep because I've always been fond of PalmOS's simplicity, mature PIMs, and large application library. But after years of constant *****ing by its users, I really do think that Palm's time is running out. When you strip away to cool glossy exterior of the iPhone, you see that a lot of boring applications like Epocrates which have been mainstays of the PalmOS for years are coming to the iPhone. While bloggers were chanting "boring" WWDC, they missed on on seeing Apple dip a straw into Palm's milkshake and take a little slurp.

    Will there be anything left for Palm when Nova finally comes out? I think so but at this point it's a far bigger mystery than Android. For the first time since I started using a Palm III to keep track of my projects at work, I am beginning to grow more pessimistic about Palm's long term future.
  4. #4  
    it really is over for Palm as it almost is for Sprint...the difference being the Sprint has hard assets that someone might actually want.

    go ahead, search me under "Sprint" if you need to.

    people, ask yourself this: beyond name recognition, what is it that any corporation would pay for? hec, brand image has been severely tarnished up to now. their operating systems are perhaps something of the past. yes, some of you will live and die by your TReos, but many more seem to have abandoned ship for other devices found. THey continue to be late to market with their introductions and stale in their produÁt offerings. Aren't there better choices to choose from?
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    it really is over for Palm as it almost is for Sprint...the difference being the Sprint has hard assets that someone might actually want.

    go ahead, search me under "Sprint" if you need to.

    people, ask yourself this: beyond name recognition, what is it that any corporation would pay for?
    If no one else I guess a hardware store could buy them. After all, they seem to have a huge pile of "last nail(s) in the coffin" according to some posters here.
    PalmPilot Professional...Palm Vx...Treo 600...Treo 680...HTC Touch HD...iPhone 4S...
  6. #6  
    i also question Palm's inability to be innovative and give the consumer what they want. in terms of hardware, they lopped off an antenna stub on one of their devices before finally making one bearable to carry. they may think they're giving the consumer what they want, but if you look around this website you'll see that they've actually failed to do so. so many have abandoned Palm for so many other devices and to me that's not because Palm gave them what they wanted but perhaps the opposite.

    Palm: you're on the right path with the Centro. spruce it up a bit, give it a stable and easy to operate OS, add some bells and whistles, and you might actually have a winner.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
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    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
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  7. #7  
    PalmOS5 (aka Garnet) is property of Access, formerly PalmSource. It is not and has not been Palm's property since 2003.

    Palm's Linux efforts have only taken genuine form since they purchased a perpetual license to Garnet in late 2005. All other efforts with regard to Garnet have been PalmSource, as Access is not doing anything with the platform other than to produce minimally compliant updates as required in existing contracts between Palm and PalmSource. Everything up to and including failed Cobalt and abandoned PalmOS on Linux in 2005 were the doings of PalmSource. Palm Desktop 6 for Vista is also the work of Access; Palm has no legal ability to modify either Desktop or Hotsync.

    If you want to know what Access is working on, there is ALP. Palm is not interested in ALP.

    Palm is being extremely secretive about what will be in their new OS, Nova. They will be deemed insane if WiFi and backward compatibility with Garnet are not included along with vastly improved Bluetooth profiles. Further complicating matters is what features carriers will allow on the handsets they sell. I expect that the many Apple alumni hires Palm has made recently will address these matters.
  8. #8  
    I have a slight bit of hope, though I'm a little cynical about it.

    My hope is because I still haven't used a device that worked as well one-handed and was as simple and intuitive as the Treo, and the main reason for that I think is that since the Treo 600, it was built for a keyboard from the start.

    Android seems to be going towards the flashy iPhone-like touchscreen interface which looks pretty and all, but just doesn't work as well on a keyboard device.

    In my opinion, things need to be built from the ground up for the keyboard, and only then does touchscreen support need to be added in, and a flashy interface if necessary, and Palm (well, Handspring) is the only company who has gotten that right so far, so that could bode well for the future.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Not nearly as mysterious as the 4-years-in-development-and-counting Palm Linux kernel. At least Android has an official web site with real information.

    I certainly hope they're watching the other innovators out there. Palm lost its innovation lead back in 2002 and they've been trying to keep up with the bare minimum since then.

    Seriously? Only one year after the abortive Foleo announcement and you've already forgotten about Palm's seeming ignorance of consumer desires?

    Your telling me Palm consumers have not wanted wi-fi, smaller form factor, or the ability to run more than one program at a time? I ask because I've seen a lot of posts, from supposedly loyal Palm users, confused as to why they've not seen these things after 5 years of asking.

    POS 5 (Garnet) was released 6 years ago this month. That's over 2,200 days of non-changing technology. How long does a company have to sit on their haunches before it's "too long?" Do you think the wash tub industry has been sitting on its haunches too long, or do they still have a couple more years left before fading into obscurity?

    The more I think about it, the more I wonder how much longer Palm is going continue diddling along doing nothing before the industry completely abandons it.

    +1 for the most part... stuff I disagree no biggie....

    Anyway, the success of android is a big issue for palm... and the success of (drum roll) windows mobile 7... and Black Berry touch screen... and if palm can release something worth a crap...

    Heck, google is nothing to sneeze at... if my sister (non-tech person... hardly knows how to turn on a computer) knows google and what google does and trusts google (ok, I need to teach her about google) then palm has an issue. I don't know if my sister knows palm... I'd guess she knows what a treo is though.

    Point is name recognition is is hard when you have a company like google that is "known" as the "internet" to a lot of people (talking non-techies here). Like all software is windows and the insides made by intel. lol.

    I see the scenerio where microsoft is battling google in the mobile areana... MS will have to take off the gloves and do battle... the heck with palm or any other company... palm gets caught in the cross with a product not due on the shelf until April 2009 (IMO).

    All told, I'd not invest in Palm's stock right now.

    Could palm knock it out the park? Heck, it is possible...

    Face it, Google has produced some major crappers... about the only google product I like is search. Gmail? Thanks for giving up large mailboxes and putting email on the front burner, but gmail sucks. All their other products I can't mention because they are not important...

    So android could go crappers. Black berry could stick to their market.... windows mobile 7 could be crappers as well... well, windows mobile 7 could be crappers for the consumer... I'm sure it will be great for us business users.

    Unfortunately, windows mobile is going the same way as outlook... trying to be one product for all kinds of users... from individual to giant corporation.

    Iphone? They are still stuck on a worthless ATT until 2099 or something. Iphone is the anti-gadget for gadget freaks... but it has a "cool" factor. Damn Steve Jobs is the best marketing person in the world... he will make people eat fresh cow crap and wash it down with five-day-old horse urin and make them "feel" good about it. Cult of Apple....
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  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Iphone is the anti-gadget for gadget freaks... but it has a "cool" factor. Damn Steve Jobs is the best marketing person in the world... he will make people eat fresh cow crap and wash it down with five-day-old horse urin and make them "feel" good about it. Cult of Apple....
    i wonder what it is that the gadget freaks have a difficult time with. dont' they have a list of other devices to choose from to satiate their gadgety needs? i think the iPhone was built for the masses, nothing wrong with that. yes, are there ways they could make it better? for certain, just like most other devices can be made better.

    the iphone isn't "cow crap" and the like as you put it, and either is most of the products within their lineup (at least i don't think so). many of their products have received high praise, accolades, and awards, so they can't be all that bad. and yes, marketing is part of any company's business plan, they just seem to do it better than most others (my opinion).

    good for apple, bad for palm.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
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  11.    #11  
    I'm holding off on judgement on the iPhone until I actually get one, I believe it'll deliver what i need while bringing some spark back into using my devices, but who knows.

    I should also mention that Palm has potential to be very successful, but I agree that unless devices come out tomorrow with the latest technology, then they are VERY late to the game.
  12. #12  
    Has anyone actually even tried the Android emulator in the SDK? Its VERY underwhelming.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    i wonder what it is that the gadget freaks have a difficult time with. dont' they have a list of other devices to choose from to satiate their gadgety needs? i think the iPhone was built for the masses, nothing wrong with that. yes, are there ways they could make it better? for certain, just like most other devices can be made better.
    my post was about other gadgets, if you would have read.

    the iphone isn't "cow crap" and the like as you put it, and either is most of the products within their lineup (at least i don't think so). many of their products have received high praise, accolades, and awards, so they can't be all that bad. and yes, marketing is part of any company's business plan, they just seem to do it better than most others (my opinion).

    good for apple, bad for palm.
    You seem "sensitive" about apple and the iphone.

    #1 I never called the iphone "cow crap." Your posts are cow crap.

    I own apple products.

    I know (and understand) the Cult of Apple... Heck, I like it!!!

    I see what the others were talking about in that last round you went through (where you pissed people off)... either you don't fully read posts or you can't fully comprehend what you read. Not sure which... but if you are going to butcher my posts, I'd rather you not even respond to them... that way I don't have to respond in fun... like calling your posts cow crap.
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  14. #14  
    oh no, not this again. i ask a question as to wondering what the gadget freaks (that you mention) have a difficult time with and you respond with

    "my post was about other gadgets if you have read"

    uh, i was asking a question to a point you posed. that's in bad form?

    you're right, you did not refer to the iPhone as "cow crap" but did say

    "Iphone? They are still stuck on a worthless ATT until 2099 or something. Iphone is the anti-gadget for gadget freaks... but it has a "cool" factor. Damn Steve Jobs is the best marketing person in the world... he will make people eat fresh cow crap and wash it down with five-day-old horse urin and make them "feel" good about it. Cult of Apple....

    so what is the "cow crap washed down with horse urin that Jobs makes you eat" that you refer to in your message? you mention the iPhone, at&t in the same set of sentences.

    i go ahead and say that the iPhone or apple products aren't "cow crap" and then you respond with questioning my ability to read and understand, and basically resorting to name calling.

    wow
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
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  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    oh no, not this again. i ask a question as to wondering what the gadget freaks (that you mention) have a difficult time with and you respond with

    "my post was about other gadgets if you have read"

    uh, i was asking a question to a point you posed. that's in bad form?

    you're right, you did not refer to the iPhone as "cow crap" but did say

    "Iphone? They are still stuck on a worthless ATT until 2099 or something. Iphone is the anti-gadget for gadget freaks... but it has a "cool" factor. Damn Steve Jobs is the best marketing person in the world... he will make people eat fresh cow crap and wash it down with five-day-old horse urin and make them "feel" good about it. Cult of Apple....

    so what is the "cow crap washed down with horse urin that Jobs makes you eat" that you refer to in your message? you mention the iPhone, at&t in the same set of sentences.

    i go ahead and say that the iPhone or apple products aren't "cow crap" and then you respond with questioning my ability to read and understand, and basically resorting to name calling.

    wow
    I guess you get into a lot of arguments here on these forums
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    oh no, not this again. i ask a question as to wondering what the gadget freaks (that you mention) have a difficult time with and you respond with

    "my post was about other gadgets if you have read"

    uh, i was asking a question to a point you posed. that's in bad form?

    you're right, you did not refer to the iPhone as "cow crap" but did say

    "Iphone? They are still stuck on a worthless ATT until 2099 or something. Iphone is the anti-gadget for gadget freaks... but it has a "cool" factor. Damn Steve Jobs is the best marketing person in the world... he will make people eat fresh cow crap and wash it down with five-day-old horse urin and make them "feel" good about it. Cult of Apple....

    so what is the "cow crap washed down with horse urin that Jobs makes you eat" that you refer to in your message? you mention the iPhone, at&t in the same set of sentences.

    i go ahead and say that the iPhone or apple products aren't "cow crap" and then you respond with questioning my ability to read and understand, and basically resorting to name calling.

    wow
    Please stop.... it is time to move on instead of you jacking another thread with people arguing with you. If you want to keep it up, hit me up in PM or in the off topic section... I'll answer you.

    Please, let us move on....
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  17. #17  
    Seems google is running into a bit of trouble... this might help palm. Well, only if palm can take advantage of the delay. One important thing to remember is that apple went the way of controlling their entire device (almost).



    Google's Mobile-Handset Plans Are Slowed

    Google now says that the handsets won't arrive until the fourth quarter. And some cellular carriers and makers of programs that work with Android are struggling to meet that schedule, people familiar with the situation say.

    One hold-up at Sprint is that the carrier would like to develop its own branded services based on Android, rather than just carry a phone with the built-in features Google plans to offer, the person familiar with the situation says.
    Considering both palm and google build on linux, this has to be an issue with palm as well:

    Meanwhile, the Android software has yet to win broad support from large mobile-software developers. Some say it is difficult to develop programs while Google is making changes as it finishes its own software.
    But some developers say it is easier to work with Apple's programming tools than Google's because of the familiarity with the company's Macintosh operating system. As a result, a wide range of software companies have been scrambling to build new iPhone applications.
    Now if palm can launch early... which I doubt.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121418837707895947.html
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  18. #18  
    I don't think Palm has ever launched anything early. Or on time.

    My developer friends (the independent software vendor sort) aren't talking about Nova at all. I suspect Palm has an uphill battle.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    I don't think Palm has ever launched anything early. Or on time.
    In mid-October, the Centro -- which has gotten warm reviews -- shipped a month early to Palm's carrier partner Sprint Nextel Corp.
    WSJ 12/13/07

    Sure the trend for Palm is probably the opposite, but hey...a month early is still a month early, lol. Then again, it seems like a lot of devices are shipped late. The Mogul was delayed by about 6 months for WM6 (probably wasn't worth it).
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    My developer friends (the independent software vendor sort) aren't talking about Nova at all. I suspect Palm has an uphill battle.
    What would they talk about without even an image of what it'll look like or do let alone an SDK?

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  20. #20  
    Oh, I dunno. Maybe "i can't wait to see what Nova looks like?" or "can't wait for nova" or "my customers are really looking forward to nova" or even "i wonder if i should stick with the palm platform after all; i mean, nova could really turn it around for them"
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