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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Can Apple disable 3rd apps already installed?

    Surur

    I still don't see how this is possible. (atleast with the current OS). I have given you many scenarios in which your examples just wont work.
  2.    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    I still don't see how this is possible. (atleast with the current OS). I have given you many scenarios in which your examples just wont work.
    I believe Cmaier is here to answer your questions.

    Surur
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Can Apple disable 3rd apps already installed?

    Surur
    All apps are code-signed. Presumably Apple can revoke certificates (at least for those apps that are distributed through the itunes store; ad hoc and infrastructure apps would be signed with certificates over which apple has no control, presumably).

    I don't believe certificates can be revoked over-the-air, but I wouldn't be surprised if an itunes synch would do it.

    Of course, there are all sorts of contractual issues involved...

    update: by the way, certificates also have expiration dates. If apple wanted to be truly evil they could make your apps go away unless you "phone home" to the itunes store.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    All apps are code-signed. Presumably Apple can revoke certificates (at least for those apps that are distributed through the itunes store; ad hoc and infrastructure apps would be signed with certificates over which apple has no control, presumably).

    I don't believe certificates can be revoked over-the-air, but I wouldn't be surprised if an itunes synch would do it.

    Of course, there are all sorts of contractual issues involved...

    update: by the way, certificates also have expiration dates. If apple wanted to be truly evil they could make your apps go away unless you "phone home" to the itunes store.
    When I open itunes I'm pretty sure there is no connection made to Apple servers unless I click the "check for updates" button. I also have the auto update service off.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    When I open itunes I'm pretty sure there is no connection made to Apple servers unless I click the "check for updates" button. I also have the auto update service off.
    Remember that the itunes you currently have does not support the iPhone app store, and that itunes 7.7 (as the internets are currently calling it) will be required.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    Remember that the itunes you currently have does not support the iPhone app store, and that itunes 7.7 (as the internets are currently calling it) will be required.
    Surur was mentioning that apple could disable Exchange mail on the iPhone if one did not subscribe to the corporate plan. I see no way for this to happen.
  7. #47  
    Well, it won't happen. But it's technically easy for them to do if they wanted to.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    Well, it won't happen. But it's technically easy for them to do if they wanted to.
    with the current OS, I dont see how.
  9. #49  
    The current OS doesn't support exchange in the first place. Nor does it support the app store, third party signed apps, and a bunch of other things. For the infrastructure for third party code-signed apps to work, there has to be (and there is) a method of issuing, verifying, and revoking certificates.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    The current OS doesn't support exchange in the first place. Nor does it support the app store, third party signed apps, and a bunch of other things. For the infrastructure for third party code-signed apps to work, there has to be (and there is) a method of issuing, verifying, and revoking certificates.
    I was talking really about OS 2.0 that has Exchange built in. For Apple to remove this feature, I would have to make a connection to an apple server at a time after I have chosen to get rid of the corporate data plan. When does this happen? Also, there would be need to be a way for AT&T to notify Apple of what plan I have and when I have it. They would need to do this for every provider in the world that sells iPhones. This is never going to happen.
  11. #51  
    OS 2.0 will have to talk to the servers any time you buy or upgrade an app. At that point it can check for revoked certificates and disable them. Alternatively, certificates have expiration dates. If these are not set to "infinity," then you will have no choice but to connect from time-to-time to re-enable your apps (this will happen in the background). Any time you synch with itunes certificates will probably be checked. Developer certificates expire all the time, btw.

    As for at&t and apple, the way i'd do it is i'd let at&t control certificates for the exchange feature. apple wouldn't have to know about it - crypto certificates are hierarchical, and use certifying authorities.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    OS 2.0 will have to talk to the servers any time you buy or upgrade an app. At that point it can check for revoked certificates and disable them. Alternatively, certificates have expiration dates. If these are not set to "infinity," then you will have no choice but to connect from time-to-time to re-enable your apps (this will happen in the background). Any time you synch with itunes certificates will probably be checked. Developer certificates expire all the time, btw.

    As for at&t and apple, the way i'd do it is i'd let at&t control certificates for the exchange feature. apple wouldn't have to know about it - crypto certificates are hierarchical, and use certifying authorities.
    And if I never bought an app, Apple would have no way to check my Exchange certificate? Is this done ota?, or when I sync through itunes? What happens if I cancel my corporate plan and dont sync via itunes for a few months?
  13. #53  
    okay, first, remember i said none of this is going to happen. I am just talking about what is technically trivial to do.

    second, exchange certificates could, of course, be checked over the air. it could be done when you synch. it could be done in both places.

    if you cancelled your plan, then, just like the phone transparently checks for voice mail, it could check your certificate.

    again, none of this is happening. the point of the business plan is that corporations who handle phones for their employees, or businesspeople who deduct the plan as an expense, will be charged more. price differentiation. happens all the time. at&t does it for their blackberrys, too.
  14.    #54  
    Anyway, the point is that Apple has huge power and control over the iPhone. As CMaier said, it seems for exchange they did not use it, but due to the level of control they have they could if they wanted to.

    Its like for Blackberry - if the device is disabled at the NOC nearly nothing works.

    Surur
  15. #55  
    Of course, that is true for any device with a network connection, a unique identifier, and a certificate system. One of the reasons blu-ray pisses me off.
  16. #56  
    Gee - somebody buy the cheap plan, try it out and see if it freakin' works already!

    If doesn't, get the more expensive plan!
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    again, none of this is happening. the point of the business plan is that corporations who handle phones for their employees, or businesspeople who deduct the plan as an expense, will be charged more. price differentiation. happens all the time. at&t does it for their blackberrys, too.
    The $45 Blackberry plan is the only plan that allows connection to a BES server. The $30 plan is used for BIS connections.

    AT&T wants to use the same pricing model for Exchange users. Atleast thats what they told me.
  18. #58  
    But there is no BIS/BES dichotomy for exchange, and many people not in businesses use exchange mail (students, for example).

    Again, don't worry about it. Exchange will work on the cheap plan.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    But there is no BIS/BES dichotomy for exchange, and many people not in businesses use exchange mail (students, for example).

    Again, don't worry about it. Exchange will work on the cheap plan.
    I agree. However, plenty of people use hosted BES servers for personal email and need to pay the $45 plan.
  20. #60  
    Yes, because they can tell the difference between BIS and BES. AT&T can't tell whether your exchange connection is for "business" or "pleasure."
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